Should the Kings give Joerger a 3 to 5 year extension?

[macadocious]

So, I've thought a lot about this and I think Joerger should get a 3-5 year extension. We are not going to do better than him. Lets look at what the perception is vs. what he's done

• He plays slow, has a boring offense.
  • False. He plays to the strengths of the players he has on his team. This is what all good coaches do. Look at Mike Malone, he got the same bad rep here because we had Boogie. Now we don't have slow plodding players were playing as fast as possible.
• He doesn't play rookies and young players.
  • False. We are currently playing the highest percentage of players minutes in their first or second year. I believe 45% of our minutes.
    • Fox, Mason, Bogi, JJ, Giles, Bagley
• He doesn't develop young talent
  • Can we just agree this is totally false by seeing how our young talent is playing? The difference is, he doesn't throw his young talent to the wolves just because we are in a rebuild. I personally think it's super smart and it's the reason this thread was started in the first place.

So those are the big misperceptions of coach Joerger. Now, lets talk about the things he does really well besides that

• He might draw the best ATO plays in the league
• Players seem to really enjoy playing for him
• He cares (look at what he did for BenMac)
• He has playoff experience
• Hes not afraid of the media or the big moment
• He sees the big picture

I honestly can't imagine we could go out and get another coach that ticks off all these boxes.

 

[Livinthedream]

So, I've thought a lot about this and I think Joerger should get a 3-5 year extension. We are not going to do better than him. Lets look at what the perception is vs. what he's done

• He plays slow, has a boring offense.
  • False. He plays to the strengths of the players he has on his team. This is what all good coaches do. Look at Mike Malone, he got the same bad rep here because we had Boogie. Now we don't have slow plodding players were playing as fast as possible.
• He doesn't play rookies and young players.
  • False. We are currently playing the highest percentage of players minutes in their first or second year. I believe 45% of our minutes.
    • Fox, Mason, Bogi, JJ, Giles, Bagley
• He doesn't develop young talent
  • Can we just agree this is totally false by seeing how our young talent is playing? The difference is, he doesn't throw his young talent to the wolves just because we are in a rebuild. I personally think it's super smart and it's the reason this thread was started in the first place.

So those are the big misperceptions of coach Joerger. Now, lets talk about the things he does really well besides that

• He might draw the best ATO plays in the league
• Players seem to really enjoy playing for him
• He cares (look at what he did for BenMac)
• He has playoff experience
• Hes not afraid of the media or the big moment
• He sees the big picture

I honestly can't imagine we could go out and get another coach that ticks off all these boxes.

What are his negatives? No man is perfect and we need not place anyone on a pedestal. I like Joerger as a coach too. Just want to balance the argument to assess if a 3-5 year extension is warranted. It's a good discussion.

 

[Cojc]

I do not know when his contact is up but we need stability and the team is buying into it and it’s starting to work out.

 

[kingsfan1984]

What are his negatives? No man is perfect and we need not place anyone on a pedestal. I like Joerger as a coach too. Just want to balance the argument to assess if a 3-5 year extension is warranted. It's a good discussion.

Is 3 to 5 years warranted??? First coach in over a decade to have us over 500 at this point in season, with a bunch of youngsters and you want a list of his negatives? Who you think they going to bring in that's better. How about we dont play games and tick him off then watch him leave to his choice of coach vacancy. Plus after the William's fiasco I'd say a nice fat extension to joeger and his staff is a good way to settle the dispute if William's is keeping his job


I get the utility of listing out his negatives alongside positives if are going to parse out where he ranks amongst NBA coaches...but in regards to a 3 to 5 year extension I think that is case closed that he should get it, and sooner rather than later

 

[Livinthedream]

Oh geez. We got the cult of Joerger thing going now. Discussions are getting tough to have. I'm out.

 

[macadocious]

Negatives.

He’s a bit stubborn

He probably has a higher opinion of his knowledge and ability than warranted

He’s not afraid to mix it up with the FO

He might be a bit antiquated with his half court offense, not I’m not even sure if we know that yet.


That’s all I can really come up with. Honestly, I’ve had less issues with his rotations than I did with Adelman.

 

[Warhawk]

Oh geez. We got the cult of Joerger thing going now. Discussions are getting tough to have. I'm out.

Then you list them. Quit telling others what you want to see then getting upset when they reply that they don't feel like doing your work for you and are happy with the coach.

 

[gunks]

I like Joerger.

Last season was rough with the Slow-Bo offense, high post WCS, and the marginalization of Fox. I was borderline drinking the "fire Joerger" cool-aid this past summer, I just didn't know who the hell Vlade would bring in if that happened.

This year has proven that last year was all about development, which Joerger was saying the entire time. And I really do believe this team is just scratching the surface. The 4th quarter defense in particular is a fun new development.

He does have his negatives, but no coach is perfect. Spurs fans complain about Pop. Stevens, the coaching golden boy of the past few seasons, is now getting laid into because of his team's offensive woes and slow start.

I wouldn't be wary at all of giving him a 3-5 year extension. This team is going to keep getting better and better under Joerger's watch.

 

[TaxMan]

So, I've thought a lot about this and I think Joerger should get a 3-5 year extension. We are not going to do better than him. Lets look at what the perception is vs. what he's done

• He plays slow, has a boring offense.
  • False. He plays to the strengths of the players he has on his team. This is what all good coaches do. Look at Mike Malone, he got the same bad rep here because we had Boogie. Now we don't have slow plodding players were playing as fast as possible.
• He doesn't play rookies and young players.
  • False. We are currently playing the highest percentage of players minutes in their first or second year. I believe 45% of our minutes.
    • Fox, Mason, Bogi, JJ, Giles, Bagley
• He doesn't develop young talent
  • Can we just agree this is totally false by seeing how our young talent is playing? The difference is, he doesn't throw his young talent to the wolves just because we are in a rebuild. I personally think it's super smart and it's the reason this thread was started in the first place.

So those are the big misperceptions of coach Joerger. Now, lets talk about the things he does really well besides that

• He might draw the best ATO plays in the league
• Players seem to really enjoy playing for him
• He cares (look at what he did for BenMac)
• He has playoff experience
• Hes not afraid of the media or the big moment
• He sees the big picture

I honestly can't imagine we could go out and get another coach that ticks off all these boxes.

The thing I find interesting about coach is you don’t hear players talking about him all that much. You don’t hear them joking around with coach, but you also don’t really hear a lot of complaints. I think he really draws a very good line (especially with a young team) of being caring and a mentor to the team, but not a chummy “players coach” who’s looking to be their friend. Disapline while also providing support. Putting them in the right position to succeed on the court, but not letting them do whatever they want. He seems to strike a really good balance that is perfect for both player development as well as a coach that has the chops to one day win a championship. Maybe at some point he will start to rub people the wrong way, but at this point I really think he’s perfect. You can see the pride he has in seeing the young guys turn the corner. Just a professional coach. It feels like the players know he’s looking out for the,

 

[funkykingston]

To me a pros and cons list isn't how you decide whether or not to extend a coach. The decision should really only be based on whether or not you can improve your team more by keeping the coach in place or replacing him with someone else.

Are there better NBA coaches than Dave Joerger? Sure. Based on this year's performance I'd say the list is smaller than I would have said last year, but yes. Is there a better coach that the Kings are certain would sign a contract to coach in Sacramento?

I'm not sure there is. Add in the benefits of continuity and familiarity in a system and I don't see any reason to look elsewhere.

 

[funkykingston]

The thing I find interesting about coach is you don’t hear players talking about him all that much. You don’t hear them joking around with coach, but you also don’t really hear a lot of complaints. I think he really draws a very good line (especially with a young team) of being caring and a mentor to the team, but not a chummy “players coach” who’s looking to be their friend. Disapline while also providing support. Putting them in the right position to succeed on the court, but not letting them do whatever they want. He seems to strike a really good balance that is perfect for both player development as well as a coach that has the chops to one day win a championship. Maybe at some point he will start to rub people the wrong way, but at this point I really think he’s perfect. You can see the pride he has in seeing the young guys turn the corner. Just a professional coach. It feels like the players know he’s looking out for the,

Joerger has a history of getting into it with the FO. I don't know how much of the Brandon Williams thing is Joerger's fault, but it wouldn't surprise me to find out that it's a two sided affair.

But with few exceptions you don't hear players grumbling about him.

 

[ESP47]

I thought Joerger should have been fired for his performance last year but this year he's done a 180. Fox plays fast and gets to the rack. Hield shoots a lot of 3s. WCS catches lobs and doesn't take many mid range shots. The list goes on but what's important is most of these guys get to do what they do best. Most of the stuff that had a lot of us pulling our hair out last year is gone like the ZBo debacle, running the offense through WCS and having him take an inordinate amount of midrange shots. Fox pulling up at the elbow instead of getting into the lane and to the line. Hield and other players being benched for no reason other than to give veterans minutes. Basically everything is cleaned up and the team has been playing the way we thought they should have been playing for 2 years now and it's great to see them winning ahead of track.

 

[Livinthedream]

Then you list them. Quit telling others what you want to see then getting upset when they reply that they don't feel like doing your work for you and are happy with the coach.

I wasn't asking for anyone to do work. I enjoyed the post and was engaging him/her on the topic. Maybe the wording was clumsy because I tried to tip toe around to avoid being called a hater when that wasn't the intention.

 

[miltonap]

Extend the man

 

[kingsfan1984]

I wasn't asking for anyone to do work. I enjoyed the post and was engaging him/her on the topic. Maybe the wording was clumsy because I tried to tip toe around to avoid being called a hater when that wasn't the intention.

Nothing wrong at all with your post, which the premise seemed to be "should kings extend joeger 3 to 5 years." You say you just want conversation which is what you receiving, only to me it is 95% clear for multiple reasons that we absolutely should extend him and the sooner the better. I think not extending him is absurd at this point.

Since your wanting to play devils advocate then please present a compelling argument why we shouldn't

 

[kingsfan1984]

To me a pros and cons list isn't how you decide whether or not to extend a coach. The decision should really only be based on whether or not you can improve your team more by keeping the coach in place or replacing him with someone else.

Are there better NBA coaches than Dave Joerger? Sure. Based on this year's performance I'd say the list is smaller than I would have said last year, but yes. Is there a better coach that the Kings are certain would sign a contract to coach in Sacramento?

I'm not sure there is. Add in the benefits of continuity and familiarity in a system and I don't see any reason to look elsewhere.

This sums it up

 

[Livinthedream]

Nothing wrong at all with your post, which the premise seemed to be "should kings extend joeger 3 to 5 years." You say you just want conversation which is what you receiving, only to me it is 95% clear for multiple reasons that we absolutely should extend him and the sooner the better. I think not extending him is absurd at this point.

Since your wanting to play devils advocate then please present a compelling argument why we shouldn't

I wasn't playing devil's advocate. I wanted to hear more from my man macadocious. He had said he put a lot of thought into it and his post was well done.

 

[parker]

Joerger seems to be talking a lot about his positive relationship with Vlade and saying, 'this team is going to be fun the next 5 years,' so it sounds like he at least wants the public perception that he is going to be around for awhile.

 

[Padrino]

Both coach Joerger and Vlade have talked a lot about the team’s vision and the team’s plan and the team’s program. The Kings’ surprising success this season could conceivably be chalked up to the random nature of a chaotic universe... or it could be the byproduct of the franchise implementing a singular vision, plan, and program for the first time in a decade, and the principles staunchly adhering to it. Perhaps those who believed Joerger and/or Vlade should be fired last season (and I raised those questions myself) were failing to see the big picture.

Again, I suppose it could be random. Maybe everybody involved just got lucky. But it’s so f***ing hard to win in the western conference on luck alone. It seems more likely to me that continuity and careful planning and development and discipline are playing a bigger role than luck, and credit must be given to Vlade and coach Joerger for seeing their vision through, and credit must be given to Vivek, as well, for seeming to take his hands off so his brain trust can successfully implement their vision.

Now, that doesn’t mean there haven’t been poor decisions made along the way, or that it’s been smooth sailing in the front office, or that luck has no role at all in what’s happening to this team. But it seems silly to me to try and create a logic that seeks to ignore or minimize Joerger’s and Vlade’s efforts.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

It was clear they were building something, but if they ever got a gift it was in the latest batch of rule changes which favors what they were building.

 

[dude12]

I’ve been sticking up for Joerger for awhile now. I do recall how some vocal forum posts refused to give him credit for what he did in Memphis. It was fairly brutal and unfair. The guy has won everywhere he has been. He’s adjusted to his personnel. His relationships with his players seem to be rock solid. He has a good feel for in game adjustments.

I’m not interested in debating who the best coaches are because I think it’s a difficult subject as they are very dependent on the roster they are given. I’d rather look at it like this.....does the team culture allow for growth and success? Can the coach put the team in a position to win games, either in a game by game basis or long term view? Joerger and his staff is really good.

Look what happened to the franchise when they dumped Adelman. Not good things. They dumped Malone and again, bad things happened. They need to lock up everyone and continue the ascension.

 

[John Galt]

Both coach Joerger and Vlade have talked a lot about the team’s vision and the team’s plan and the team’s program. The Kings’ surprising success this season could conceivably be chalked up to the random nature of a chaotic universe... or it could be the byproduct of the franchise implementing a singular vision, plan, and program for the first time in a decade, and the principles staunchly adhering to it. Perhaps those who believed Joerger and/or Vlade should be fired last season (and I raised those questions myself) were failing to see the big picture.

Again, I suppose it could be random. Maybe everybody involved just got lucky. But it’s so f***ing hard to win in the western conference on luck alone. It seems more likely to me that continuity and careful planning and development and discipline are playing a bigger role than luck, and credit must be given to Vlade and coach Joerger for seeing their vision through, and credit must be given to Vivek, as well, for seeming to take his hands off so his brain trust can successfully implement their vision.

Now, that doesn’t mean there haven’t been poor decisions made along the way, or that it’s been smooth sailing in the front office, or that luck has no role at all in what’s happening to this team. But it seems silly to me to try and create a logic that seeks to ignore or minimize Joerger’s and Vlade’s efforts.

It has been a little surprising to me how reluctant some of the folks here (not you Padrino) are to attribute the current success of the Kings to a "plan". People are willing to believe that Joerger had a fetish for veterans that made him play Barnes and ZBo, and that only a MIRACULOUS upheaval in his psyche would ever change that. I read it over and over last year... so disparaging... such a presumption of dumbcrapness on the part of Joerger/Vlade. It was weird. (wow... kudos to the profanity filter on this one... not bad, not bad)

Why not believe that the "year one plan" was to school the guys on some core principles using vet role models, and the "year two plan" was to start kicking ass.

Because it looks that way to me - and I never believed that Joerger was so blind and emotionally attached to his vets that he was actually trying to undermine the Kings youth development plan in order to get a couple more W's on his record with ZBo. I mean it is just preposterous... Joerger has been the executor of THE youth development plan. He just doesn't develop youth the same exact way as the average keyboard whiz blogger does. Imagine that.

 

[VF21]

I moved this conversation into a new thread, partially so I could add a poll.

As far as the poll goes, I voted YES. It's important that we maintain a sense of stability and Joerger has earned the keys. Get it done and keep things moving in the right direction.

 

[kingsboi]

I say wait on the extension and let's see how this season finishes. After the All-Star break is when teams start putting it into another gear as they prepare for the Playoffs and seeding. Now that doesn't mean that he shouldn't be extended if he doesn't make the postseason, but there is no rush really.

 

[TaxMan]

I thought Joerger should have been fired for his performance last year but this year he's done a 180. Fox plays fast and gets to the rack. Hield shoots a lot of 3s. WCS catches lobs and doesn't take many mid range shots. The list goes on but what's important is most of these guys get to do what they do best. Most of the stuff that had a lot of us pulling our hair out last year is gone like the ZBo debacle, running the offense through WCS and having him take an inordinate amount of midrange shots. Fox pulling up at the elbow instead of getting into the lane and to the line. Hield and other players being benched for no reason other than to give veterans minutes. Basically everything is cleaned up and the team has been playing the way we thought they should have been playing for 2 years now and it's great to see them winning ahead of track.

I go back and forth a little bit on last year. Was it all Joerger’s grand plan to instill some half court basics and then unleash the pace this year, or was he stubborn for a year until the front office forced his hand? I lean toward the former given gis past statements about playing with pace (which many originally dismissed due to his travk record in Memphis) and how hard he has pushed it this year. I guess either way everyone seems to have bought in at this point and he has, along with the front office, created a new personality for the team.

 

[TaxMan]

I say wait on the extension and let's see how this season finishes. After the All-Star break is when teams start putting it into another gear as they prepare for the Playoffs and seeding. Now that doesn't mean that he shouldn't be extended if he doesn't make the postseason, but there is no rush really.

I don’t think the final record this year should dictate the decision. As long as the team and their identity continues to grow, and we see sting player development with the core youth.

 

[kingsboi]

I don’t think the final record this year should dictate the decision. As long as the team and their identity continues to grow, and we see sting player development with the core youth.

It goes beyond the record for this season but continuity and familiarity with the system can't go unsaid here. Kings finally have established an identity and stability too and from there you keep making incremental strides season by season to reach your end goal.

 

[VF21]

I say wait on the extension and let's see how this season finishes. After the All-Star break is when teams start putting it into another gear as they prepare for the Playoffs and seeding. Now that doesn't mean that he shouldn't be extended if he doesn't make the postseason, but there is no rush really.

I couldn't disagree more. After everything that's gone on, we need to tie him up and remove any cloud of uncertainty from over his head or that of the players. You can't keep someone hanging when they've done as much as Joerger has done in turning this whole stupid mess around.

 

[kingsboi]

I couldn't disagree more. After everything that's gone on, we need to tie him up and remove any cloud of uncertainty from over his head or that of the players. You can't keep someone hanging when they've done as much as Joerger has done in turning this whole stupid mess around.

his extension runs through the 2019-2020 season so it gives the Kings a bit more time before committing long term, which is what I imagine they will do anyway considering Vlade will be here as long as Joerger will be, they are a tandem.

 

[Kingsfan23]

Yes. IMO he’s largely responsible for the success and they won’t get someone better

The issue is, if by chance ownership feels less secure with Vlade, do they do the coach before the GM tidbit after getting rough publicity from it the previous two times