Should AI(and others) Don a suit.
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
tyrant said:
You obviously haven't been watching David Stern over the years. If it goes through, it WILL be enforced. Just ask Cat Mobley after his beanie incident last year.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
tyrant said:
Tyrant, the reality is nobody cares enough to run afoul of Stern over this. Except maybe you. And maybe A.I.. If its implemented, everybody will just go along with it. Despite the silliness, these are not exactly exotic clothes they are being asked to don. Amazingly enouh not only have people worn them for years, but a significant percentage of the NBA players already know what they look like and can no doubt tell the others where to shop. I would rather expect that the vast majority of these guys already own one or more sets of such clothes for special occasions. Somehow they will manage. And even if they have to spend a few grand on their new wardrobe, it doesn't take an accountant to figure out that's a helluva lot cheaper than being mega-fined or suspended by the Commissioner.
People with dreams of some sort of revolt are going to have to find a lot more significant issue than being asked to wear a sports coat for a few hours evey day.
tyrant's member title should read: "let them eat cake."
tyrant
Starter
that's not the point. this isn't about obedience or insubordination. i'm pretty sure that if enforced players will abide by the rules; or get fined if they don't. what i meant about my previous statement is that players, (((important players i.e iverson)))))will question stern and raise fits. stern has already been punked on of a few occasions.
why change? what is so important about wearing a suit and tie before a game? it's not selling more tickets and it doesn't make you more important; it definately does not set standards for the league. the players make or break this league and everyone knows it. everyone has their own opinion and i have mine. and giving my 2 cents i think enforcing a dress code is retarded. it seems like stern is eager to earn the approval of his "peers". political garbage.
let the players feel comfortable. who gives a crap what they wear
why change? what is so important about wearing a suit and tie before a game? it's not selling more tickets and it doesn't make you more important; it definately does not set standards for the league. the players make or break this league and everyone knows it. everyone has their own opinion and i have mine. and giving my 2 cents i think enforcing a dress code is retarded. it seems like stern is eager to earn the approval of his "peers". political garbage.
let the players feel comfortable. who gives a crap what they wear
tyrant
Starter
http://www.virginislandsdailynews.com/index.pl/article_sports?id=9091235
Looks like Iverson and I aren't the only 2 that's discusted with this.
Looks like Iverson and I aren't the only 2 that's discusted with this.
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ONEZERO
Guest
The nba is an entertainment, not something you watch to gain a sense of formality and strong sense of professionalism. And it already is professional, so I don't see what this dress code is for. Are we gonna see wrestlers wearing nice clothes or suits and ties? Cause that is an entertainment just like the nba and all other major sports we continue to watch on a daily basis.
^^^LOL>
It's not about the WWF. It's not about personal rights or freedom.
ONEZERO - You have repeated your "I don't see what this dress code is for" mantra since the very beginning. You have not, however, addressed any of the points from the other side where people tried to point out to you the response. Clearly, you don't get or understand or agree with the concept of an employer requiring certain standards, including a style of clothing, from his employees while they're representing said business.
It's not going to boil down to whether or not AI or a couple of other players try and spin it away from that simple concept. It's going to boil down to how much they're willing to pay in fines for breaking the terms of their employment contract.
Anything else is smoke and mirrors.
It's not about the WWF. It's not about personal rights or freedom.
ONEZERO - You have repeated your "I don't see what this dress code is for" mantra since the very beginning. You have not, however, addressed any of the points from the other side where people tried to point out to you the response. Clearly, you don't get or understand or agree with the concept of an employer requiring certain standards, including a style of clothing, from his employees while they're representing said business.
It's not going to boil down to whether or not AI or a couple of other players try and spin it away from that simple concept. It's going to boil down to how much they're willing to pay in fines for breaking the terms of their employment contract.
Anything else is smoke and mirrors.
Londonking
Believer
VF21 said:
...and that will be the most interesting aspect of all this....will AI roster-a-snook at the establishment and ignore the dress code and incur the penalties?
Part of me hope he does...just because he can.
He can because he's arrogant and very rich and the fines are likely to make little impact on his wealth (and so are meaningless). But this is not David vs Goliath, AI isnt representing the freedom of choice of NBA players...if he rebels...its just AI rebelling.
Maybe in his shoes i would too, but in my real world i conform, and sometimes i wish i didnt.
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ONEZERO
Guest
But all you keep saying VF is that "the players must abide by their employers standards", but what you have yet to say is the reasoning behind it. What is their plan for this? Clean up the image of the nba? Is it really that bad?
I hate the fact that some, and I'm not talking about you VF, that are trying to state that the bling bling is not a professional thing to wear. They play a sport as a profession. What is wearing formal clthing gonna do to alter the way we view these players and the effect they have on the nba outside of the actuall playing field?
I hate the fact that some, and I'm not talking about you VF, that are trying to state that the bling bling is not a professional thing to wear. They play a sport as a profession. What is wearing formal clthing gonna do to alter the way we view these players and the effect they have on the nba outside of the actuall playing field?
Londonking
Believer
Onezero, Would you agree that wearing 'bling bling' is not business-like ?
You cant really imagine the boardrooms of the companies in the S&P500 being filled with their executives wearing heavy gold chains and rings and flashy jewellery can you? Its an establishment thing...
Well, i suspect the NBA want the players who play in their league to be part of 'The Establishment' rather than part of the street culture....
You cant really imagine the boardrooms of the companies in the S&P500 being filled with their executives wearing heavy gold chains and rings and flashy jewellery can you? Its an establishment thing...
Well, i suspect the NBA want the players who play in their league to be part of 'The Establishment' rather than part of the street culture....
ONEZERO -
1. The image of the NBA really is THAT bad in more than a few eyes. And, ironically, the stunts of people like AI throwing his wife naked out into the street, have had a lot to do with it. Add the brawl, Kobe Bryant, various shootings, etc. and there's a perception that the NBA is a bunch of thugs. Not good if you're the team owner wanting to sell your product to the local buying public.
2. Bling bling is NOT a "professional" thing to wear. It's an ostentatious representation of obscene amounts of money paid to young men for playing a game.
3. Stern explained his reasoning in the original article. Do I agree with his thinking? Pretty much. There's an expression in business that is still valid today: "The clothes make the man." A lot of players coming into the league nowadays are getting the wrong idea IMHO about what they're representing. By requiring a certain code of dress, Stern is sending the reminder that the NBA is a business; that the players are employees of said business; and that they should conduct themselves as such when they're out representing their team, the NBA, etc.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with asking these young men to act like grown-ups.
1. The image of the NBA really is THAT bad in more than a few eyes. And, ironically, the stunts of people like AI throwing his wife naked out into the street, have had a lot to do with it. Add the brawl, Kobe Bryant, various shootings, etc. and there's a perception that the NBA is a bunch of thugs. Not good if you're the team owner wanting to sell your product to the local buying public.
2. Bling bling is NOT a "professional" thing to wear. It's an ostentatious representation of obscene amounts of money paid to young men for playing a game.
3. Stern explained his reasoning in the original article. Do I agree with his thinking? Pretty much. There's an expression in business that is still valid today: "The clothes make the man." A lot of players coming into the league nowadays are getting the wrong idea IMHO about what they're representing. By requiring a certain code of dress, Stern is sending the reminder that the NBA is a business; that the players are employees of said business; and that they should conduct themselves as such when they're out representing their team, the NBA, etc.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with asking these young men to act like grown-ups.
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ONEZERO
Guest
Whatevers. I'll just keep it real and agree with tyrant. I feel our assesments are right. You guys feel your assesments are right. Lets leave it at that.
Gargamel
Starter
ONEZERO said:
Just remember that the 1980 and 1981 Finals were on tape delay. So much for the big draw of Magic and Bird in the early days.
Stern mandated the clean and professional way. The list of players using cocaine during the 70s into the mid-80s was long. For a 5 year stretch, the Jazz had 4-5 players on cocaine. One (Terry Furlow) died in a car wreck while intoxicated on it. Bernard King was an avid cokehead who was arrested in 1980 on felony sex charges (traded away immediately). Spencer Haywood was traded to the Lakers in 1979 and immediately began taking meth. He passed out in practice during the 1980 Finals after a year of bizarre behavior culminating in a standoff with Magic Johnson. He was cut prior to Gm4 of the Finals. He blamed his failures on Westhead and later flew back to LA during the offseason with the intent of hiring goons to sever the coach's brake lines. Even one of the guys (John Drew) Utah firesaled Nique for was a cokehead.
Then you have Len Bias and the other notorious losers from the 1986 Draft. That same year, Michael Ray Richardson became the first player permanently banned by the league. He had a habit of going into the projects looking for coke. Roy Tarpley entered the league that same year. A year before Bias' death, Gary McLain, the MVP of the 1985 Villanova title team was coked up as he lead Villanova past Georgetown.
Stern was instrumental in cleaning up the league. It wasn't just Magic, Bird, and MJ who saved the NBA. Magic and Bird were still playing in the same league that Stern eventually helped fix.
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thesanityannex
Guest
I don't see the bling bling statement as being a valid argument, its actually a silly argument. The reason you can't imagine bling bling in the boardroom is because it is not part of their style or culture. They choose not to wear "bling bling" because they don't want to, not because of "the establishment".Londonking said:
Padrino
All-Star
the two sides of this argument that i see are both kind of impractical. one side says the nba is a business and they're simply trying to cultivate that business-like image. the other side is saying that the nba doesn't need an image clean-up. the fact is that the nba is a business, but its difficult to make board room comparisons because we cant pretend that the nba is like any other modern day business. so, that said, its really up to the business owner to determine the face of his business. if said business owner feels that baggy pants and outrageously expensive jewelery is proper attire for his less-than-typical business, then so be it. but if he decides that he would prefer suit and tie formal wear, then so be it. i dont believe that baggy pants or jewelery hurts the nba's image. i think its disgusting and excessive, but its the reality of the nba lifestyle. what does hurt the nba's image, however, is the whiny attitudes of some of its more outspoken stars. shut up and put on a suit. you can buy a really nice one on yer salary.
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thesanityannex
Guest
If the league wants to clean up its image so much, how about ridding the teams of their scantily clad silicone filled dancers, or stop inviting "thugs" such as Ludacris, Lil John and Jay-Z to do halftime shows. Nothing speaks professionalism more than a little gangsta rap and booty shaking.
(Disclaimer: I'm not for any of these changes by the way, just making a point)
(Disclaimer: I'm not for any of these changes by the way, just making a point)
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ONEZERO
Guest
How in the hell is ME saying that I'LL keep it real have anything to do with the ATHLETES with $50,000 worth of jewelry keeping it real? Read and understand peoples posts before you go and completely mix it up with something that has absolutely nothing to do with the original post.
And you said that the nba's image really is THAT bad, then what's changing their outfits gonna do to change the image? "Golly son, iverson threw his wife outside the house and jason williams shot a limo driver, but its all good, they're wearing nice clothes now."
Clean up their image? Oh jeez, give me a break.
And also, its not like the nba is barely coming into existence in the next year. They've been around forever and people know the players and they know what the nba is really about, the GAMES. Changing their atire is not gonna do anything to alter peoples judgement on the game or the atlhetes or what they bring on and off the court anymore than it already has in the years past WITH the dress code being a choice for the player itself.
And you said that the nba's image really is THAT bad, then what's changing their outfits gonna do to change the image? "Golly son, iverson threw his wife outside the house and jason williams shot a limo driver, but its all good, they're wearing nice clothes now."
Clean up their image? Oh jeez, give me a break.
And also, its not like the nba is barely coming into existence in the next year. They've been around forever and people know the players and they know what the nba is really about, the GAMES. Changing their atire is not gonna do anything to alter peoples judgement on the game or the atlhetes or what they bring on and off the court anymore than it already has in the years past WITH the dress code being a choice for the player itself.
I can see that attempting to explain HOW some people view the situation isn't going to work because you simply won't accept that they have a right to an opinion that differs from yours.
I read every post. My comment was in response to your "I'll keep it real" - whatever that is supposed to mean. My viewpoint - while pretty much diametrically opposed to yours - is just as real and just as valid.
There are generational differences, cultural differences, etc. that all come to play in this particular argument. It doesn't make one side necessarily the ONLY side. You have repeatedly said you don't understand why ... People are trying to give you an answer. Apparently if it's not the answer you want, you're not going to accept it. That's fine...If you don't think you're going to like or agree with the response, QUIT asking the bleeping question.
PEACE.
I read every post. My comment was in response to your "I'll keep it real" - whatever that is supposed to mean. My viewpoint - while pretty much diametrically opposed to yours - is just as real and just as valid.
There are generational differences, cultural differences, etc. that all come to play in this particular argument. It doesn't make one side necessarily the ONLY side. You have repeatedly said you don't understand why ... People are trying to give you an answer. Apparently if it's not the answer you want, you're not going to accept it. That's fine...If you don't think you're going to like or agree with the response, QUIT asking the bleeping question.
PEACE.
thesanityannex said:
Don't be surprised if there is a subtle shift away from the blatant "gangsta rap"-type entertainment. I think the dress code might be the first hint of a swing of the pendulum back the other direction...
As far as the dancers go, however, I don't think there's a chance in the world they'll go back to pleated skirts and sweaters with team emblems on them. The average male viewer might not care that much about the "gangsta" image but I'm willing to bet he'd grab the torches and pitchforks if people started putting MORE clothes on the dance troupes.
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thesanityannex
Guest
This dress code is hypocritical to everything thing else the league does to gain fan interest such as the dreaded halftime show featuring lil john with his hoochie mamma dancers. Lil John is not a role model of any kind, so why is he affiliated with the league?
ONEZERO said:
Yes, the NBA's image - among a lot of people - is that bad.
IMAGE is a perception, based on what could be incomplete, incorrect or misleading data. The PERCEPTION of the NBA and its players has taken some pretty hard hits - among them the BRAWL, the whole KOBE fiasco, Williams shooting his own chauffeur, the extreme and outlandish outfits some players now wear, etc.
It's not about a father telling a son anything. It you think that, it's painfully obvious you're not a parent.
If the public impression of the NBA is that it consists of thugs and gangstas, then a certain percentage of that public is no longer going to buy tickets, buy merchandise, etc. That is NOT GOOD FOR BUSINESS.
You may not understand it, but it doesn't make it wrong.
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