Shot blocking is really not the problem

[baller13]

If you look at the top defensive teams none of them other than orlando really have the big stud shot blocker. Atlanta does have josh smith but i dont people are scared to go inside against them and Indiana has roy hibbert who really isnt all that athletic, he's just huge. People who think we have to get a big time shot blocker next to cousins are wrong. Sure it helps but there are only so many dwight howards or tyson chandlers out there. Javale mcgee blocks shots? surely nobody wants him. Thats why i feel guys like Thomas Robinson, harrison barnes or MKG would be great for this team. All 3 are pretty good position defenders and bring much more to the table. If the guys on the perimeter could actually stay in front of somebody shot blocking wouldnt really matter. Barnes may not be as good a defender as MKG but he is still pretty good in his own right. Same with Thomas Robinson. And for all those people who are worried we might lose JT, who really cares?? Dont get me wrong i would like to bring him back but nobody is going to be blowing up his agents phone and there is a reason for that. JT is not a great defender, he is out of position quite often. He is a pretty good rebounder and has decent shot but he is not going to be a starter on a good team. Get some guys who can play team defense. Its not like miami, boston or chicago has a shot blocker back there. Noah averages 1.4 a game. just fyi and garnett is 36 so dont even go there. They all play excellent team defense. Thats what we need.

 

[The_Jamal]

Que the death sirens!

On a more serious note I agree to an extent. Shotblockers are important, but what you notice is that all the top teams with one ( Ibaka, Chandler, Noah, Howard...) are all top tier defenders as well. I don't see the Dalembert, McGee, Haywoods of the world anchoring any serious contender. AND excellent point is that all that elite teams play elite team defense. It's just not 1 beastly shot-blocker and 4 defensive scrubs on the floor.

I have no problems playing the average defending shot-blockers in a bench role for 20 minutes a game. That's where they belong. If Robinson and Drummond are available at our pick somehow, I sure hope we don't pass on Robinson. He's going to be too good to pass on for an all potential pick like Drummond

 

[Mass]

Sorry, I completely disagree with you. Some example:

OKC: Serge Ibaka (isn't he a shot blocker?!? Isn't OKC a top difensive team?)
Boston: Garnett (don't look at the stats, look how many shots he changes)
Chicago: Noah
Memphis: Gasol
New York: Chandler (even if the team was bad, defensively they were a decent team)
Clips: Jordan

These are just some examples. A rim protector is very important for a good defense. Of course it can' solve all of your problems. We won't be a good difensive team just by adding a shot blocker. We need team defense. But it helps, and this team was better when Dalembert was here.

JT: I definitely want him back, for the right price. You don't seem to appreciate his game very much, but I do. JT has grown a lot this season, he doesn't make many mistakes and he was one of the most consistent guys of our team. He could be the perfect 3rd big for a contender, and I'm sure that a lot of teams would like to get him.

 

[upinsmoke]

If Robinson and Drummond are available at our pick somehow, I sure hope we don't pass on Robinson. He's going to be too good to pass on for an all potential pick like Drummond

I have been watching alot of kansas games lately and I must say his lack of skills in the post worry me. If his oppenent takes away his hook and he can't just out muscle the defender it's a turnover or bad shot waiting to happen if nobody is cutting. But back to the shot blocking it's very true that teams can be among the elite without the stats of blocked shot's but not without a shot adjuster/deterrent.

 

[Gilles]

Game evolves but it doesn't mean old axiom is outdated. PnR/PnP is the new big thing and if your center is lumbering behemoth you will suffer even if he's major shotblocker(Lakers) and you can be fine without major shotblocker if you have a quick enough guy at center who can contest inside shots even if he's not a threat to swat a lot of them (Boston). If nobody on your team rotates so there's no team defense no shotblocker is saving you. Want to get to playoffs? Get team defense at the very least. Want to go deep? Shotblocker is a must, unless you have excellent, versatile defenders at every position.

 

[The_Jamal]

I have been watching alot of kansas games lately and I must say his lack of skills in the post worry me. If his oppenent takes away his hook and he can't just out muscle the defender it's a turnover or bad shot waiting to happen if nobody is cutting. But back to the shot blocking it's very true that teams can be among the elite without the stats of blocked shot's but not without a shot adjuster/deterrent.

I agree, he's not perfect offensively. He reminds me a lot of Prime Amare and Blake Griffin's offensive skill set. Add in the fact that Robinson is the best rebounder in the draft, as good an athlete as anyone in the draft, NBA ready body, an unquestioned motor, and has a toughness/willingness to bang on both ends. I also think he has an extremely high upside to improve defensively.

I don't disagree with everyone that a rim protector is important. The problem is that there isn't a good enough one available that should be starting. I would be more than thrilled with a rotation along this nature:

Cousins-33 minutes
Robinson-30 minutes
Dalembert/Camby-23 minutes
Hayes-13 minutes

 

[roasthawg]

FAR bigger problem is a lack of superstar(s). Cousins looks really close and there's still hope for Tyreke but we're such a long way from Durant/Westbrook/Harden or James/Wade/Bosh or Duncan/Parker/Ginobli or Rondo/Garnett/Pierce/Allen.

Even if Cousins elevates to a 25/12 guy and Tyreke goes back to 20/5/5 we're still short that 3rd stud.

 

[beb0p]

You can get away with no shot blocker if you have awesome perimeter defenders. Utah (during the Boozer/Okur days) had AK47 and Ronnie Brewer patrolling the outside. The Spurs had Bowen/Manu. The Heat has Chalmers/Wade/Battier. Etc, etc.

The Kings has uh... Marcus Thorton and Isiah Thomas. The quickest fix is to get a swatter in there to cover for their "defense." We are positively not one of the teams that can get away without a shot blocker. Now, if the Kings upgrade their wing defense, then perhaps.

 

[Kingster]

If you look at the top defensive teams none of them other than orlando really have the big stud shot blocker. Atlanta does have josh smith but i dont people are scared to go inside against them and Indiana has roy hibbert who really isnt all that athletic, he's just huge. People who think we have to get a big time shot blocker next to cousins are wrong. Sure it helps but there are only so many dwight howards or tyson chandlers out there. Javale mcgee blocks shots? surely nobody wants him. Thats why i feel guys like Thomas Robinson, harrison barnes or MKG would be great for this team. All 3 are pretty good position defenders and bring much more to the table. If the guys on the perimeter could actually stay in front of somebody shot blocking wouldnt really matter. Barnes may not be as good a defender as MKG but he is still pretty good in his own right. Same with Thomas Robinson. And for all those people who are worried we might lose JT, who really cares?? Dont get me wrong i would like to bring him back but nobody is going to be blowing up his agents phone and there is a reason for that. JT is not a great defender, he is out of position quite often. He is a pretty good rebounder and has decent shot but he is not going to be a starter on a good team. Get some guys who can play team defense. Its not like miami, boston or chicago has a shot blocker back there. Noah averages 1.4 a game. just fyi and garnett is 36 so dont even go there. They all play excellent team defense. Thats what we need.

Shotblocking isn't the only problem. All other things being equal, it would be nice to have though. I'd love to have Davis because he could provide a lot of assets, shot blocking among them. But you're right, it's not the only thing by a long shot. Miami is doing it without a major shot blocker. Chicago Bulls did it also. Detroit Pistons didn't have great shot blockers either. Off hand I can't recall that the championship Philly team had much shot blocking, but they certainly had excellent athletic defense. Defense can be done by other means, like excellent quickness. That's why I'd be very happy with Robinson or MKG. The last thing I want to do is get a guy who is just a shot blocker at the expense of everything else.

 

[rainmaker]

You can get away with no shot blocker if you have awesome perimeter defenders. Utah (during the Boozer/Okur days) had AK47 and Ronnie Brewer patrolling the outside. The Spurs had Bowen/Manu. The Heat has Chalmers/Wade/Battier. Etc, etc.

The Kings has uh... Marcus Thorton and Isiah Thomas. The quickest fix is to get a swatter in there to cover for their "defense." We are positively not one of the teams that can get away without a shot blocker. Now, if the Kings upgrade their wing defense, then perhaps.

Pretty much. It's really one or the other. You need a shotblocking presence/intimidation inside, or you need damn good perimeter defenders at the 1,2 and 3 to cut off any penetration. What you can't have is below average to average defenders on the perimeter, and then say shotblocking isn't needed. And the shotblocking/intimidation is easier to get than two elite perimeter defenders in Wade/LJ, or a Pippen/MJ.

 

[roasthawg]

Pretty much. It's really one or the other. You need a shotblocking presence/intimidation inside, or you need damn good perimeter defenders at the 1,2 and 3 to cut off any penetration. What you can't have is below average to average defenders on the perimeter, and then say shotblocking isn't needed. And the shotblocking/intimidation is easier to get than two elite perimeter defenders in Wade/LJ, or a Pippen/MJ.

Tyreke/MKG?

 

[Glenn]

Tyreke/MKG?

Beat me to it.

 

[bajaden]

Interesting tweet from one of the scouts:

Jeff Goodman ‏@GoodmanCBS
Thomas Robinson and Andre Drummond went at it in Cleveland yesterday - and T-Rob, per sources, clearly came out on top.

 

[baller13]

Tyreke/MKG?

Could not agree more. Although tyreke does need to improve, he sticks to screens like a fly to fly paper.

 

[Bricklayer]

If you look at the top defensive teams none of them other than orlando really have the big stud shot blocker. Atlanta does have josh smith but i dont people are scared to go inside against them and Indiana has roy hibbert who really isnt all that athletic, he's just huge. People who think we have to get a big time shot blocker next to cousins are wrong. Sure it helps but there are only so many dwight howards or tyson chandlers out there. Javale mcgee blocks shots? surely nobody wants him. Thats why i feel guys like Thomas Robinson, harrison barnes or MKG would be great for this team. All 3 are pretty good position defenders and bring much more to the table. If the guys on the perimeter could actually stay in front of somebody shot blocking wouldnt really matter. Barnes may not be as good a defender as MKG but he is still pretty good in his own right. Same with Thomas Robinson. And for all those people who are worried we might lose JT, who really cares?? Dont get me wrong i would like to bring him back but nobody is going to be blowing up his agents phone and there is a reason for that. JT is not a great defender, he is out of position quite often. He is a pretty good rebounder and has decent shot but he is not going to be a starter on a good team. Get some guys who can play team defense. Its not like miami, boston or chicago has a shot blocker back there. Noah averages 1.4 a game. just fyi and garnett is 36 so dont even go there. They all play excellent team defense. Thats what we need.

One does wonder why NBA fans are routinely so completely lost when it comes to shotblocking. Its been such a core part of defense for basically as long as the league as been around. The geomerty of that is simple: the basket is far off the ground, and hence a taller person is going to be able to come inbetween you and that basket much easier than a shorter person. And the shotblocker is generally your center or PF and hence normally positined BEHIND your other defenders. Its rather basic math to say that an offensive player having to beat two defenders is going to have a harder time than one having to beat one defender, and that an offensive player trying to shoot the ball into a 10 foot hoop over a 7 foot guy with long arms is going to have a harder time doing it than if he is faced with a 6'7" guy with shorter arms.

Now let's explore the odyesseys of the very teams you are citing, the top defensive teams in the league. Defensive FG% is the way to do that BTW, since Defensive Pts allowed depends to some degree on pace. So this is how the top 5 defesnive teams THEMSELVES feel about the importance of shotblocking:

#1 Boston (tied for 5th in shotblocking) -- start the season with Jermaine O'Neal at center. What is Jermaine's purpose you might ask? Shotblocking. Its all he can do anymore. As Jermaine breaks down turn to some degree to Greg Steimsma, who is a lousy basketball player in every way except, you guessed it, shotblocking. finally install 7foot Kevin Garnett back there where he drinks a fountain of youth potion and ups his shotblocking in the playoffs to about 1.5 a game. Let me ask you, as I will repeatedly, if shotblocking is not a key component of NBA defenses, why do the best defensive teams in the league try so damn hard to keep aroudn players that can do little else? Do you know something they don't? Perhaps you should become a consultant and explian to them the wrongheadedness of their thinking.

#2 Chicago (3rd in shotblcoking) -- let's see, employ not 1, not 2, but THREE frontline shotblockers in Noah, Gibson and Asik, with the three of them combining for nearly 4 blocks a game. Not that I know why they bother. Surely there must be a scoring combo guard or hardworking 6'7" PF they could employ instead.

#3 Philadelphia (tied for 12th in shotblocking) -- I would generally consider them an exception to the rule driven by Collins, but did you know that Brand and Hawes combined to block nearly 3 shots a game last season? In fairly limited minutes? Did you also know that after the season ended they immediately announced that their primarily goals were finding a guy who could create his own shot, and finding more shotblocking and length inside? Seems silly to us, since we know how unimportant that stuff is, but hey not everybody can be basketball geniuses.

#4 OKC (#1 in shotblocking) -- Serge Ibaka, Kendrick Perkins. 'Nuff said. Their frontline exists for no other reason.

#5 Miami (tied for 9th in shotblocking) -- Joel Anthony is a terrible basketball player. Just terrible. He's only good at one thing. Would you like to guess what that one thing is? Would you further like to guess who started at center for the Heat all season long? It wasn't Battier. It wasn't Haslem. It wasn't Mike Miller. It was the guy who could barely dribble with two hands. So again, let me ask you the question, if length/intimidation/shotblcoking/interior defense is NOT considered a critical component of defnese by the league's best defensive teams, why on Earth would a basketball player like Joel Anthony be starting for the likely world champs this year? What could possibly possess them?

 

[Kingster]

I have been watching alot of kansas games lately and I must say his lack of skills in the post worry me. If his oppenent takes away his hook and he can't just out muscle the defender it's a turnover or bad shot waiting to happen if nobody is cutting. But back to the shot blocking it's very true that teams can be among the elite without the stats of blocked shot's but not without a shot adjuster/deterrent.

Robinson is not a back to the basket kind of power forward. He needs to be able to face his opponent and take him to the basket. With his quickness, he should be able to do that very well in time. He already has a good enough shot from intermediate range that guys are going to have to come out there and guard him. He will open the floor for both Cousins and others in that regard. He's similar to Thompson in that way, just much more explosive in getting to the rack. When it comes to athleticism, I think he's two steps above Thompson.

 

[rainmaker]

Tyreke/MKG?

Possibly, but I wouldn't forego shotblocking or more defense inside until they've proven it. Pippen/MJ and Wade/LJ had proven their worth on defense for years. They also had/have very good defenders at PF in Rodman/Haslem, who while aren't shotblockers are exceptional man to man and team defenders.

Also, Wade is by far the top shotblocker for a guard in the last 5 or so years, and LJ regularly tracks down and alters/blocks shot in transition, even in half court sets. Not sure how that could be duplicated with any wing combo in the league, let alone Reke/MKG, and I'd wager once again this summer Mia will still try to go out and get a shotblocker to help.

 

[Spike]

Playing kids out of position will also have disastrous effects on your defense. That said, we still needed a ton more frontcourt help.

 

[SacTownKid]

Aren't the Kings the best shot blocking team in the league?

Having a shot blocker on the team and a part of the rotation would be a great asset so don't kid yourselves. Cousins isn't a shot blocker so having one next to him would complete just about one of the most deadly combinations skill wise in the game. The potentially great thing about the two that could be drafted by the Kings is they also stand to become good overall defenders as well, not just a shot blocker who can't slide his feet or play other aspects of defense. Players that can do both equally well are extremely valuable.

 

[SacTownKid]

Could not agree more. Although tyreke does need to improve, he sticks to screens like a fly to fly paper.

And that's always going to be hard for him, his size comes back to bite him in those instances. He's just such a huge target to take out. That's why having Chuck Hayes will be good for this team if he gets the chance to play with the starters more. You need someone to call out those screens and/or that can hedge out and give your guard an extra tick or two to get back to ball handler. Cousins is decent at it, Jason Thompson doesn't really know how to do it.

 

[SacTownKid]

Interesting tweet from one of the scouts:

Jeff Goodman ‏@GoodmanCBS
Thomas Robinson and Andre Drummond went at it in Cleveland yesterday - and T-Rob, per sources, clearly came out on top.

Thomas Robinson is more talented but Drummond will send 3 times the amount of shots away in a game scenario than Robinson will.

 

[roasthawg]

Thomas Robinson is more talented but Drummond will send 3 times the amount of shots away in a game scenario than Robinson will.

And Hassan Whiteside will send twice as many away as Drummond will. There has to be more to the equation than just blocking shots... if not then we already have a top 3 shot blocker in the league on our roster in Whiteside.

 

[KingsCitizen]

And Hassan Whiteside will send twice as many away as Drummond will. There has to be more to the equation than just blocking shots... if not then we already have a top 3 shot blocker in the league on our roster in Whiteside.

Hassan Whiteside a.k.a The Blockside.

 

[Gary]

IN MY OPINION:

A shotblocker is a nice thing to have. Kind of like a pure shooter. It's not the difference between a title or no title if you have a talented team but it can get you over a playoff hump if you you were already "almost" talented enough.

Same thing with a Kevin Martin type player. He would be nice to have, and any title contending team would love to have him taking all the bailout 3pt shots when there isn't anything inside but teams really don't need him to win.

 

[rekehavoc73186]

the heat just won a title without a elite shot blocker. We just need great team defense and defenders. Cousins will be one of the best players in the league, tyreke if he can finally get that jumper down he is our westbrook, and our 3rd of our big 3 is thornton. If he can be a more willing passer he will be a very good 6th man. He is fearless and has a knack of hitting the big shot. When we get to the playoffs he could be huge for us.

 

[rainmaker]

the heat just won a title without a elite shot blocker. We just need great team defense and defenders. Cousins will be one of the best players in the league, tyreke if he can finally get that jumper down he is our westbrook, and our 3rd of our big 3 is thornton. If he can be a more willing passer he will be a very good 6th man. He is fearless and has a knack of hitting the big shot. When we get to the playoffs he could be huge for us.

Here's the issue.

Wade: 3 times All NBA 2nd Team Defender
At 6'4", shortest player in NBA history to record 100+ block in a season
Only guard in NBA history to ave 1 block per game for career

Lebron: 4 times All NBA 1st Team Defender
Considered best wing defender and most versatile defender in NBA

and Mia still needed a still very good wing defender in Battier, a very good defensive PG in Chalmers, and a very good defensive PF in Haslem to get to where they are. Anthony was also a defensive presence and center most of the year.

May I ask how one goes about replicating that? Only other time it's happened in recent memory was the MJ/Pippen combo, and they also were surrounded by a great defenders in Rodman/Horrace Grant at PF, and very good PG defender in Harper, and other above average defenders like Armstrong, Longley, Wennington, Perdue, Cartwright during their championship runs among others.

I just don't see the evidence that unless you have two All NBA defenders on the wing surrounded by other very good defenders as well, that you don't need a shotblocker, nor do I see how the MJ/Pippen and LJ/Wade dynamic is something a team can plan on replicating.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Having a shotblocking presence is nice, but it isn't a necessity. If the player providing that presence doesn't rebound or score especially well, it really doesn't help you all that much.

Take this year's finals as an example. OKC had more overall talent, but their bigs didn't rebound or score well enough to win. Ibaka is a nice, athletic player but he's more of a one trick pony at this point in time. He blocks shots and that's about it. In all other aspects, he's pretty average. Same with Perkins. Good post defender, but he's a liability on offense and doesn't rebound as well as he should.

if OKC had Tyson Chander (didn't they try to trade for him?), Joakim Noah, or even our own DeMarcus Cousins they would have been much better off, IMO. All of those guys can rebound exceptionally well and score a little bit. Cousins isn't the shotblocker the other 2 are, but he can dominate in the paint.

 

[Prince_XY]

One does wonder why NBA fans are routinely so completely lost when it comes to shotblocking. Its been such a core part of defense for basically as long as the league as been around. The geomerty of that is simple: the basket is far off the ground, and hence a taller person is going to be able to come inbetween you and that basket much easier than a shorter person. And the shotblocker is generally your center or PF and hence normally positined BEHIND your other defenders. Its rather basic math to say that an offensive player having to beat two defenders is going to have a harder time than one having to beat one defender, and that an offensive player trying to shoot the ball into a 10 foot hoop over a 7 foot guy with long arms is going to have a harder time doing it than if he is faced with a 6'7" guy with shorter arms.

I hope no one questions the importance of a shot blocker in basketball from now on. The reason is so basic, too elementary, and even a normal 5-year old kid would probably understand.

 

[KingsCitizen]

I think the other elephant in the room left unnoticed is that we don't have any other big who is a reliable scorer down low.
JT is inconsistent and Chuck and Hassan are offensively non-factors.

Once Cuz gets into foul trouble, teams easily double Evans and that's it for us.

If we can't get a shot blocker, I hope Petrie gets some big dude that could contribute offensively when DMC sits.

 

[bajaden]

I hope no one questions the importance of a shot blocker in basketball from now on. The reason is so basic, too elementary, and even a normal 5-year old kid would probably understand.

You know, I'm getting just a little sick of this condesending crap. If someone disagrees with your premise, or anyone's premise about shotblockers, then their lost, or know nothing about basketball. They're more ignorant than a five year old. I think having a good shotblocker is wonderful, but many championships have been won without one. And by god, I'll post every damm one, if I have to prove my point. This may be the only fourm that fixates on having a shotblocker. And once again, I'd love to have one. But do you pass up a very good basketball player, because he's not a shotblocker. Thats pure nonsense.

You can't always get what you want when you want it. And the worse thing you can do, is draft a wannabe. I'd like to point out that mister shotblocker on this fourm would have drafted Thabeet if he could have. Not based on known information, but out of lust and desire for the golden ring represented by a shotblocker. I don't question the logic behind the desire, but I do question blindness thats derived from that same desire. If we were to pass up Beal for Henson, that would be blindness.

There was a shotblocker that I lusted for. Anthony Davis! Well thats not going to happen. So I moved on! Shotblocker in the draft was no longer at the top of my list. Why? Because at number 5, there simply isn't a shotblocker good enough to be drafted that high. Sorry, but thats the god honest truth. And no, I'm not going to reach for Henson when there are better all around players available. If we want a shotblocker, then we'll have to get one through freeagency or trade.