Seth Curry
- Thread starter New Era
- Start date
ockingsfan
Starter
If and when curry opts out, I can see that it may be a Seth or rondo decision.
Rondo will command a 10-14 mil per year contract. Let's say he gets a $12 mil per year contract. Collison has a 6 mil contract.
If rondo is re-signed, I don't know if the Kings can afford the cap space for another point guard and the playing time for curry, who will probably get offers in the $3-5 mil per year range. Unless they see him as a shooting guard.
I can see rondo walking for more money and the Kings retain curry and start collison next year.
Use the cap space on a stretch 4 in Ryan Anderson and a 3 and d starting shooting guard, like Arron afflalo, Courtney Lee, Kent bazemore or Allen crabbe.
Rondo turned down an extension from the Celtics in 2014 that would have paid him an average of $14 million per season so I'm not sure what his market value is now that the salary cap is set to explode and tons of teams will have cap money to spend.
But I would agree with using the caproom on Ryan Anderson rather than Rondo if only because I'd rather have a Collison/Curry PG rotation with Anderson as a floor spacer for Cuz than a Rondo/Collison PG rotation with no more caproom to sign another impact player.
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It's true that Rondo's cap hold will affect our cap, but I agree with OC that there will probably be a decision between Rondo and Curry (or potentially Curry and Collison). At any rate I doubt there's enough room on the roster for all three the way Curry has been playing.
There's a lot of unknowns going into next season - I can't even tell if we're going to try to win or blow it up again. If we blow it up, Curry would look to be a pretty sure thing for our roster. If we try to keep the status quo, Curry may be an odd man out. If we make big moves in an attempt to both shake it up and win, I have no idea what that bodes for Curry.
I hate looking at cap because we never know the official numbers. The numbers always vary from site to site. Using my own rough calculations, I have the Kings down for 62.8million next year in guaranteed contracts. An estimated guess for the cap is currently $89million. If both my estimations are correct, it means we'll have $26.2million for cap space.
I highly doubt Curry makes over 10mpy. I don't think he deserves anything over 6mpy...but what do I know? In all honesty, I'd rather give Curry 10mpy than extend Rondo.
I highly doubt Curry makes over 10mpy. I don't think he deserves anything over 6mpy...but what do I know? In all honesty, I'd rather give Curry 10mpy than extend Rondo.
Right now Cousins, Gay, Koufos, Belinelli, Collison, McLemore, Cauley-Stein, Casspi, Butler, Anderson, Acy, Curry and Dukan are all under contract for next season at a total of around $66 million.
And the Kings will have capholds for Rondo and Moreland at around $12 million bringing the total to $78 million. I believe they have dead money tied up from stretching Wayne Ellington that will add another million or so bringing the overall total to somewhere around $79 million which would leave $10 million in cap space.
But if they renounced Rondo and Moreland, waived Dukan (his salary isn't guaranteed) and Anderson, Curry and Butler opted out then yes they could have around $63 million in contracts and a little over $26 million in cap space. Quincy Acy's contract isn't guaranteed for next season either but I don't see how the team would even think about not bringing him back at $1 million.
Crazy contracts are going to be handed out this summer. The guy who won the MVP last year and is a near shoe in to repeat is about to only earn $1 million more per year than the NBA average.
The Kings will have the ability to sign ONE free agent of note. That could be Rondo. That could be Ryan Anderson. That could be Harrison Barnes or Kent Bazemore. But it will almost certainly be just one of them. Vlade has some important decisions to make.
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Someone who I think the Kings should be looking at maxing right now is Evan Fournier. He can do it all. A great scorer, shooter, and playmaker.
The one guy I'm afraid to give the max to is Harrison Barnes. He's a great defender, but he's benefited tremendously from being on the Warriors. If we bring him here, are we going to expand his role? How will he be able to transition from an unselfish team onto the Kings team? We have lots of assists, but our ball movement is horrible compared to the Warriors. Could Barnes benefit from a more iso-driven team? If we move forward with Cousins as our center piece, we'll always be an iso team no matter what. As good as Cousins' passing numbers have been, he's a poor passer from the post. He has predetermined decision making a lot of the times.
I think the Kings need to wisely spend their money. Lots of teams have money this year, and the Kings should be a bit more selective on who they want to bring in..assuming they have a plan to build around Cousins. I'm just not completely sold on Barnes right now. I think his shooting numbers are better than they seem because he benefits from being on a team full of shooters. His dribbling is decent at best. His passing is mediocre. He's a 3&D guy, but is he max-worthy?/ I think that's something the Kings will have to address.
Vlade has lots of homework. All of it starts on Cousins. I could sadly see him bringing back Rondo for Cousins. At this point, I'd rather move forward with Curry. I have no interests in bringing back a 30yearold player in his decline.
Livinthedream
All-Star
I wonder if it hurts more to get drafted and celebrate with all your friends and family and then never play than it is to not be drafted at all and just head straight to Europe.
SacKings384
Starter
I'd be ok letting Rondo go with the way Curry has been playing. I think Curry is a huge gem and I want to lock him up for a long time coming.
I'm not sold on Barnes being a top dollar guy at all either. He'd be an upgrade from Rudy in that he's a better (and more versatile) defender and that he's a much lower usage player, but he's the type of guy you'd want as a one of the wings if you were building around Cousins and Rondo except that signing him means the team can't re-sign Rondo. I think Harrison Barnes is a high level complimentary piece and that teams looking at him to be their 2nd best player are going to be disappointed.
If the team is going to re-sign Rondo then I think you have to trade Rudy (and possibly McLemore/Belinelli) for one or more 3&D guys. Nabbing Ariza and Sefalosha would be fantastic. Then you'd have Rondo, Cousins and WCS with defenders and shooters starting at SG & SF with Collison & Casspi being the main bench scorers. It likely means Curry leaves via free agency though I think it's likely the Kings draft a guard with their lottery pick, assuming they keep it. It also means the team continues to play a PG centric game where Rondo is the main ballhandler and playmaker.
If the team moves on from Rondo then Collison starts at PG and the offensive approach would have to be one where the ball moves a bit more since Collison isn't the playmaker that Rondo is. In that instance I'd still trade Rudy (he's not conducive to a free flowing, movement based offense) and I'd rather see the Kings go after Ryan Anderson in an attempt to simply surround Cousins with shooters and give him space to work. I'd also push hard to re-sign Curry.
I think the approach the Kings take will probably be dictated by who is brought in as coach. If it were Thibs I would think the team would be more likely to re-sign Rondo, focus on improving the defense and give him free reign on offense like he had in Boston.
If the team were to hire someone like Udoka I would think it'd be more likely they'd let Rondo walk as the Spurs offense isn't dependent on having a playmaking PG and Collison would slip into the same role Tony Parker plays in San Antonio.
macadocious
Starter
Why does Rondo have a cap hold?
King Baller
All-Star
So you just never give the Kid a chance? What if he can defend a NBA position, has a nose for the ball and can hit the 3 point shot? Every now and then there is a player who can get it done when the lights are bright and the crowd is watching. But at practice looks pretty average.
After watching Seth Curry get all the DNP CD I do not trust the coaching staffs judgement of players.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
Good question. Had to look it up. All free agents, even non-Birds, have cap holds. Rondo's will be 120% of his current salary.
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q38
macadocious
Starter
I don't understand why there would be any cap hold for an unrestricted free agent. We have no rights to them. How do we get rid of their cap hold, when they sign somewhere else? What happens if Rondo is asking for a 4 year 72MM deal and we say no, we want to look somewhere else. Nobody bites on his asking price and he comes back to us a 3/36, can we sing him then? This is very confusing? Can we not sign anyone until that is resolved?
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Every once in a while, an organization stumbles on a hidden gem. A player that's been overlooked for various reasons. A player that's already been stamped with a label, based more on perception, than his personal results. I think Curry is that player for the Kings. I didn't think much of Curry in college. It wasn't as if he was a bad player, he just didn't leap out at you, and maybe some of that was because we, or I, kept trying to see his brother instead of him. Unfair, but not unusual. Being Steph's brother wasn't helpful as far as promoting himself. It raised expectations to a point that almost condemmed him to basketball oblivion.
The irony is that some of the things said about Seth, are the same things that were said about Steph coming out of college. Steph went to Davidson, a mid-level division one school, where he was easily the star. Seth went to Duke, where it was easy to get lost among'st the stars. Makes one wonder what the outcome may have been if Seth had followed in his brothers footsteps, and had gone to a mid-level school, where he might have gotten the chance to stand out like his brother did. Life is all about making the right decisions.
Regardless, you have to give Seth credit. He's worked his butt off and has excelled at every stop along the way, and now seems to be grabbing his current opportunity by the throat, and squeezing everything out of it. Everyone noticed his 20 points last night, and of course everyone noticed his 15 assists, but how many noticed that he only had 2 turnovers despite being the primary ball handler all night. That's a remarkable statistic. Was last night an aberration? Maybe a little bit. I don't think it's fair to expect 15 assists out of him every night. But I can see him averaging 15 to 17 points and 7 to 8 assists a night, and folks, that's not bad. It's pretty damm good actually, especially when you consider he does play defense.
If nothing else, Curry gives the Kings insurance in case resigning Rondo becomes unlikely, which I think is probable, and takes away the pressure of having to look for a PG in the draft or in freeagency. Last night may have been the best we'll ever see from Seth. It may be a twice or three times a year thing. Or, it may just be the tip of the iceberg. I'd like to find out with him in a Kings uniform.
The irony is that some of the things said about Seth, are the same things that were said about Steph coming out of college. Steph went to Davidson, a mid-level division one school, where he was easily the star. Seth went to Duke, where it was easy to get lost among'st the stars. Makes one wonder what the outcome may have been if Seth had followed in his brothers footsteps, and had gone to a mid-level school, where he might have gotten the chance to stand out like his brother did. Life is all about making the right decisions.
Regardless, you have to give Seth credit. He's worked his butt off and has excelled at every stop along the way, and now seems to be grabbing his current opportunity by the throat, and squeezing everything out of it. Everyone noticed his 20 points last night, and of course everyone noticed his 15 assists, but how many noticed that he only had 2 turnovers despite being the primary ball handler all night. That's a remarkable statistic. Was last night an aberration? Maybe a little bit. I don't think it's fair to expect 15 assists out of him every night. But I can see him averaging 15 to 17 points and 7 to 8 assists a night, and folks, that's not bad. It's pretty damm good actually, especially when you consider he does play defense.
If nothing else, Curry gives the Kings insurance in case resigning Rondo becomes unlikely, which I think is probable, and takes away the pressure of having to look for a PG in the draft or in freeagency. Last night may have been the best we'll ever see from Seth. It may be a twice or three times a year thing. Or, it may just be the tip of the iceberg. I'd like to find out with him in a Kings uniform.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
No, we can renounce the cap hold and free up the space, the consequences of which I'm not sure I fully understand at the moment. Apparently there still is a non-Bird exception, too!
But yeah, if we decide we want to move on from Rondo, we can simply renounce him and free up the cap hold.
It seems weird, but in addition to "Bird" and "Early Bird" exceptions, there are also "Non-Bird" exceptions that apply to some players, including players who signed a one-year deal like Rondo. Technically, this exception means that we can go over the cap to sign Rondo to a contract starting at 120% of what we gave him this year. However, since we're not going to be over the cap to end the season, it's kind of irrelevant. Unless I've got something mixed up, because we will start the offseason with cap space we can renounce his cap hold immediately without affecting the maximum amount of money we could give him. If we started the offseason above the cap, it would be different.
macadocious
Starter
Oh, ok. That makes sense. So we will almost certainly renounce his hold immediately unless we have a deal already worked out.
Curry tore up the D-League and was the Summer League MVP if I'm not mistaken. Dukan isn't even a top 3 player on the Bighorns.
I would have put him in yesterdays game to help us keep the lottery pick but the guy is 99.9% likely to never see the court.
He is the strangest roster addition I can even think of. He wasn't very good in college, yet we've carried him on the roster for some strange reason. The only thing I can think of is that he is Croatian. There are dozens of more deserving players for that spot than Duje.
ockingsfan
Starter
If curry is listed at 6'3", since he was 6'2 1/2" with shoes at the draft combine, instead of 6'2", I think it would help with the perception that he can start at shooting guard, instead of a back up point guard.
Right now, I think he is pigeon holed as a pg because of his height.
List him at 6'3" and then the perception is he can legitimately start at shooting guard in the nba.
I know it is a minor detail, but you can't start a 6'2" shooting guard in the league and get respect.
At 6'3", Curry would be perceived more as a shooting guard, which he is more of than a point guard.
I can see curry starting at shooting guard next year, if the Kings don't draft hield or sign a legit 3 and d shooting guard.
Right now, I think he is pigeon holed as a pg because of his height.
List him at 6'3" and then the perception is he can legitimately start at shooting guard in the nba.
I know it is a minor detail, but you can't start a 6'2" shooting guard in the league and get respect.
At 6'3", Curry would be perceived more as a shooting guard, which he is more of than a point guard.
I can see curry starting at shooting guard next year, if the Kings don't draft hield or sign a legit 3 and d shooting guard.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
What did I just read?
bajaden
Hall of Famer
In fairness to Dukan, he had the misfortune of playing behind Dekker his entire college career, and thus never really got any significant playing time. He's like any shooter, he needs enough minutes on the floor to get into the flow of the game. It's difficult for any player to get 4 minutes here and 5 minutes there, get three shots, miss two and then be considered a bad shooter. It's a rare player that can come off the bench and consistently hit shots from the get go. Obviously Vlade see's something in him, or he wouldn't be on the payroll. Hey, if he doesn't pan out, it's not like we lost a huge investment.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
It's a language called Perceptioneze...
ockingsfan
Starter
Perception, a lot of times, becomes reality.
Like it or not, people perceive Curry as a Point Guard because of his listed height. And being listed at 6'2", a lot of people would cringe starting him long term as a Shooting Guard at 6'2".
Just like when a lot of people did not want to start Isaiah Thomas as a 5'9" point guard in the NBA. But, if he was 5'11", people would have burnt down the house when he left.
Same goes for Curry as a starting Shooting Guard, at 6'3", people would not think twice about having a starting shooting guard at 6'3".
If Curry is starting at SG at 6'2", people would still be searching for the King's Shooting Guard of the future.
Curry could easily be listed at 6'3", instead of 6'2", since most of the times NBA players round up on their listed heights.
Perception becomes reality, in the way people view players.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Here's the thing, based on his recent performances, I think Curry has proved that he can play the PG position, and to be honest, good PG's are far harder to come by than SG's. So if I'm Curry, I'd rather be perceived as a PG than a SG because my chances of being signed are far better. Personally, I see Curry as a combo guard. A player that can play either position. By the way, if you go to the measurements history part of DraftExpress, they give the exact measurments and it has Curry listed at 6'3" in shoes. Making him almost the exact height of McCollum. The major difference is that McCollum has a larger wingspan.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Here's a nice little article on Curry, along with his exploits.
http://dleague.nba.com/news/seth-curry-nba-highlights-sacramento-kings-041216/
http://dleague.nba.com/news/seth-curry-nba-highlights-sacramento-kings-041216/
