Send Mclemore to NBDL, give Ray his minutes

[Livinthedream]

BBIQ rears it's head again. Noah played three years college and he's still gotten better since coming to the NBA. Jimmer played 4 years and it took him 3 years in NBA to get better. Ben lacks experience.

The only guys we should worry about are the ones who seem like they don't care. Those guys don't get better no matter how talented. That's not the case with Ben.

 

[EJF]

Ben has a ton of weaknesses, but his biggest imo is his lack of confidence. Sending him to the d leauge could shatter all the confidence he has left. The best plan imo is let Ben start and take his bumps along the way. The Kings arent making the playoffs as it is.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I question the fact that it seemed just fine and reasonable to send Ray over and back a couple times to the Bighorns,...but seems 'out of the question' to try it with Ben. Why is that?

Because there appears to be some kind of paradigm/"unwritten rule" that you can't send lottery picks to the D-League, because... reasons!

 

[LPKingsFan]

Indeed. More like there were minutes for McLemore available even without sending him to Reno, so why bother?

 

[EJF]

Theres more ergency for Ben to succeed than Ray, and there should be. The Kings have very limited options at SG, even when Thorton was here. At PG the Kings at least have the potential to keep IT. Even though Im not a fan of him starting, I think hes at least a very good 6th man. I think its fine the way PDA has addressed this situation as long as Ray countiues to get solid minutes.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Ben has a ton of weaknesses, but his biggest imo is his lack of confidence. Sending him to the d leauge could shatter all the confidence he has left. The best plan imo is let Ben start and take his bumps along the way. The Kings arent making the playoffs as it is.

Why would that have shattered his confidence? It didn't do that to Ray McCallum and many other players who have worked on their game there.

I think in many cases it's the opposite and a player can easily gain confidence, because he can work on his skills with less fear of failing while trying different things

 

[EJF]

Why would that have shattered his confidence? It didn't do that to Ray McCallum and many other players who have worked on their game there.

I think in many cases it's the opposite and a player can easily gain confidence, because he can work on his skills with less fear of failing while trying different things

The Kings have more invested in Ben than Ray, and thus more expectations. Ben has a lot more pressure to succeed than Ray by being a top 10 pick. The Kings organization and us fans expect more from a high draft pick compared to a 2nd rounder, naturaly.

Im not exactly sure if its these pressures, pressures from within Bens mind, or both, that cause Ben to lack confidence in my eyes. I would lean towards the pressures of being a top 10 pick being the biggest factor, but thats my opinion. Whatever it is, sending Ben to the d leauge isnt going to help his confidence intially, and I think it could be potentially devastating. Believe me, Im not trying to coddle the guy. Honestly, Im not a big fan of his game at all. But being 19 and having the pressures of a top 10 pick and thus being told your not good enough.....I can see how someone who lacks confidence that this might not be helpful when the Kings arent in the playoff hunt and can afford to develope him.

You could be completely right about this though, and sending his butt down to the d league might really help. I can see where your coming from. But I do think his and Rays situations is very difference, even if for all the wrong reasons.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

The Kings have more invested in Ben than Ray, and thus more expectations. Ben has a lot more pressure to succeed than Ray by being a top 10 pick. The Kings organization and us fans expect more from a high draft pick compared to a 2nd rounder, naturaly.

Im not exactly sure if its these pressures, pressures from within Bens mind, or both, that cause Ben to lack confidence in my eyes. I would lean towards the pressures of being a top 10 pick being the biggest factor, but thats my opinion. Whatever it is, sending Ben to the d leauge isnt going to help his confidence intially, and I think it could be potentially devastating. Believe me, Im not trying to coddle the guy. Honestly, Im not a big fan of his game at all. But being 19 and having the pressures of a top 10 pick and thus being told your not good enough.....I can see how someone who lacks confidence that this might not be helpful when the Kings arent in the playoff hunt and can afford to develope him.

You could be completely right about this though, and sending his butt down to the d league might really help. I can see where your coming from. But I do think his and Rays situations is very difference, even if for all the wrong reasons.

I just question the mindset, that if a player comes in as your top pick,...that doing whatever it takes to improve their skills is "not really an option".

If you truly believe that a player could improve their game with your other team that is setup for that, I can't imagine not exploring that option.

If he needs to work on his ball handling, how about letting him go play some point guard for the Bighorns

 

[bajaden]

I just question the mindset, that if a player comes in as your top pick,...that doing whatever it takes to improve their skills is "not really an option".

If you truly believe that a player could improve their game with your other team that is setup for that, I can't imagine not exploring that option.

If he needs to work on his ball handling, how about letting him go play some point guard for the Bighorns

Its very difficult to improve your ballhandling during the season. Most of those kind of improvements are done during the offseason while working with a trainer on a daily basis. What McLemore needs more than anything is experience, and if he can get it at the NBA level, so much the better. Now if you have a player you drafted that's playing behind other talented players and you have trouble getting him minutes, then you send him to the D-League. But that's not the case with McLemore. He's getting minutes so there's no reason to send him there.

Personally I'm a believer that the tougher the competition, the better you'll get. It may be a struggle for a while, but in the long run, if you have god given abilities, and you work hard, you'll eventually reach your potential. You can become an excellent skier on the bunny hill, but until you get up on the expert run and take your lumps falling down, you'll never really be any good.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Now if you have a player you drafted that's playing behind other talented players and you have trouble getting him minutes, then you send him to the D-League. But that's not the case with McLemore. He's getting minutes so there's no reason to send him there.

This is what makes the most sense to me, and explains the different approaches between Ben and Ray. Before Jimmer and Thornton were gone, there were still minutes for Ben but not for Ray, so it made sense to send Ray to Reno to get experience. Now there are plenty for both.

 

[Tetsujin]

I wanna just add: Ben lacks of BB IQ. He have to watch and watch again thousand of Ray Allen's moves (obviously Ray is an example, but it works). Then all the things funkykingston said are correct. Lot of work. Every day, every night.
I don't think Ben will be better then Ray (even if i hope so ) because without a strong "control" of bball is difficult to get any better every year.
Just see Joakim Noah. He's the perfect counter-example of Ben (very skills-limited player, but with a superb IQ, great heart and disposition/temperament)

That's not entirely true. His first couple of seasons, Joakim had a tendency to just run around the court like a chicken who just met the butcher. I'd even argue that it took Rose getting hurt (and also super genius coaching superstar Vinny Del Negro getting fired) for Noah to really start meeting his full potential.

 

[GoSACtown]

Ben has a ton of weaknesses, but his biggest imo is his lack of confidence. Sending him to the d leauge could shatter all the confidence he has left. The best plan imo is let Ben start and take his bumps along the way. The Kings arent making the playoffs as it is.

I disagree, I believe he can go to the NBDL and gain confidence while down there..Much less pressure on him and he can work on his game

 

[bajaden]

I disagree, I believe he can go to the NBDL and gain confidence while down there..Much less pressure on him and he can work on his game

At this point, there's not much pressure by staying where he is. What's left of the season is basically garbage time. So where's the pressure? If you can't get minutes in garbage time, then you shouldn't be on the team, and probably shouldn't be in the NBA. What's left of this season is the perfect time for Ben to get minutes. To send Ben down now, when your bringing D-League'rs up, would be a giant slap in the face to Ben, and an addmission by the Kings that they blew a draft pick. If you can't play now, when the games are meaningless, then when?

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I think he's saying what I believe should have happened as well. He should have been assigned to some Bighorn games a long while ago, as soon as it was readily apparent that he was not progressing much at all with the Kings.

The "issue" is doing it sooner doesn't seem like an option either. So you "can't" do it sooner, it "doesn't make sense" to do it now,... so obviously it seems that it's never an option with a top pick. I disagree with that

I think his skills could have been more improved by now, had they been open to a different approach

 

[bajaden]

I think he's saying what I believe should have happened as well. He should have been assigned to some Bighorn games a long while ago, as soon as it was readily apparent that he was not progressing much at all with the Kings.

The "issue" is doing it sooner doesn't seem like an option either. So you "can't" do it sooner, it "doesn't make sense" to do it now,... so obviously it seems that it's never an option with a top pick. I disagree with that

I think his skills could have been more improved by now, had they been open to a different approach

Maybe, maybe not. If the Kings are teaching a certain system, then there's no better place to learn that system than with the source, which would be Malone. Now if your learning a new system, and you can't get enough floor time to practice that system, then I see the D-League as a great alternative. But if your able to get the minutes, I see no point in sending him to the D-League. I do agree, that if that was your intent, then it should have been done at the beginning of the year. I just don't agree that it had to be done at all.

I know much has been made of his mistakes. But you can't learn without making mistakes. I briefly skated in competition, and before anyone wants to know about it, let me just say that I never won a damm thing. But my coach told me over and over again, if your not falling, your not learning. You fall by pushing yourself to attempt things you've never done before. In basketball terms, the tougher the competition, eventually, the better your going to be. Unfortunately, the falling part is pretty ugly. Kind of painful too!

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Maybe, maybe not. If the Kings are teaching a certain system, then there's no better place to learn that system than with the source, which would be Malone. Now if your learning a new system, and you can't get enough floor time to practice that system, then I see the D-League as a great alternative. But if your able to get the minutes, I see no point in sending him to the D-League. I do agree, that if that was your intent, then it should have been done at the beginning of the year. I just don't agree that it had to be done at all.

I can't disagree strongly enough with this, but since I've mostly articulated my opinion in this thread already, I'll decline to repeat myself. I will just say this, and I may not speak for anyone but myself, but I absolutely do not want to see guys "learning" how to play when they get to the NBA. I don't necessarily expect everybody who gets to the NBA to be a completely finished product, or that they never improve, once they get to the show, but it is completely unacceptable to me that a kid gets to the NBA still needing to learn as much about how to play at the pro level as McLemore needs to learn. And that's not me picking on McLemore: the same statement could be applied to, roughly, ninety-five percent of his draft class, including the two front-runners for ROY.
I still believe that McLemore may have potential, but he is not ready to play at the pro level. He needs to learn; that, at least ostensibly, is what the D-League is for.

 

[Padrino]

I can't disagree strongly enough with this, but since I've mostly articulated my opinion in this thread already, I'll decline to repeat myself. I will just say this, and I may not speak for anyone but myself, but I absolutely do not want to see guys "learning" how to play when they get to the NBA. I don't necessarily expect everybody who gets to the NBA to be a completely finished product, or that they never improve, once they get to the show, but it is completely unacceptable to me that a kid gets to the NBA still needing to learn as much about how to play at the pro level as McLemore needs to learn. And that's not me picking on McLemore: the same statement could be applied to, roughly, ninety-five percent of his draft class, including the two front-runners for ROY.
I still believe that McLemore may have potential, but he is not ready to play at the pro level. He needs to learn; that's what the D-League is for.

i tend to agree with this line of thinking, especially if the new regime can turn the kings' d-league affiliate into a successful branch of their overall basketball philosophy. "sure things" are hard to come by in the draft, and even if adam silver succeeds in raising the age limit from 19 to 20, we're still going to see teams gamble on players like mclemore, who are often hyped for their physical gifts rather than their skill sets or their basketball IQ. i'd hope to see the d-league become much more useful and practical to nba teams than it's generally been since its inception...

 

[bajaden]

I can't disagree strongly enough with this, but since I've mostly articulated my opinion in this thread already, I'll decline to repeat myself. I will just say this, and I may not speak for anyone but myself, but I absolutely do not want to see guys "learning" how to play when they get to the NBA. I don't necessarily expect everybody who gets to the NBA to be a completely finished product, or that they never improve, once they get to the show, but it is completely unacceptable to me that a kid gets to the NBA still needing to learn as much about how to play at the pro level as McLemore needs to learn. And that's not me picking on McLemore: the same statement could be applied to, roughly, ninety-five percent of his draft class, including the two front-runners for ROY.
I still believe that McLemore may have potential, but he is not ready to play at the pro level. He needs to learn; that, at least ostensibly, is what the D-League is for.

Actually, I don't disagree with you from a fan's perspective. I didn't say it would be fun to watch, and I certainly don't blame you for not wanting to watch it. Unfortunately, this is what you get in a one and done scenario. In some cases, you getting players that have great physical ability, but also came to the game of basketball late, along with playing only one year of college basketball. The players that stay four years now, are for the most part, players with lesser athletic ability. So you may be getting a very experienced player, but one that will never be more than a role player in most cases. There are exceptions of course on both sides.

In McLemore's case, I think the Kings just decided to bite the bullet. I would bet that if you asked Malone privately if he thought McLemore was ready for the NBA, he'd say no. But apparently they thought the quickest way to get him NBA ready was to keep him here so they could work with him every day, and throw him into the fire. Anyway, regardless of where you fall in this discussion, I don't think it serves any purpose to send him down to the D-League at this point.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Actually, I don't disagree with you from a fan's perspective. I didn't say it would be fun to watch, and I certainly don't blame you for not wanting to watch it. Unfortunately, this is what you get in a one and done scenario

And I do not believe that this is true, on any level. There is no rule in the collecting bargaining agreement that says that, just because you draft a player, that you have to play him on the main roster immediately. So, yeah... while it is, in fact, what we've gotten, I do not believe that it is just "what you get." You make it sound like, just because the player chooses to come out after one year, that

1. the team has to draft him, or
2. even if they do draft him, that they have to play him immediately.

Now, while I don't really think that there's anything that can be done about kids leaving college early, even if Silver succeeds in pushing the age minimum to twenty, the ball club still is not obligated to play a guy who isn't ready. And yeah, some players are ready to contribute from jump street, but most aren't. And I look at it like this: there is, roughly, a month between the start of NBA training camp, and the start of D-League training camp; it shouldn't take any coach or general manager worth a **** a whole month to figure out whether their rookie is ready or not.

... Anyway, regardless of where you fall in this discussion, I don't think it serves any purpose to send him down to the D-League at this point.

And, as I said before, I agree with this. It doesn't serve any purpose to send McLemore to the D-League at this point; he should have been sent down in November.

 

[bajaden]

i tend to agree with this line of thinking, especially if the new regime can turn the kings' d-league affiliate into a successful branch of their overall basketball philosophy. "sure things" are hard to come by in the draft, and even if adam silver succeeds in raising the age limit from 19 to 20, we're still going to see teams gamble on players like mclemore, who are often hyped for their physical gifts rather than their skill sets or their basketball IQ. i'd hope to see the d-league become much more useful and practical to nba teams than it's generally been since its inception...

I believe it can become more useful, but only if some changes are made. It needs to operate more like baseball's minor leagues. But in order to do that, it would require some changes in the CBA, and the current one isn't up for a while. It would be nice if every player on your D-League team was under contract to the parent club. That doesn't work now because every salary counts against the cap, and there's a limit to how many players a team can under contract. Right now, its hard to have total control, and even if you buy the club, the majority of the players can go sign with another team if they get an offer. So in essence your paying money to develop players that could end up playing for other teams. That just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[bajaden]

And I do not believe that this is true, on any level. There is no rule in the collecting bargaining agreement that says that, just because you draft a player, that you have to play him on the main roster immediately. So, yeah... while it is, in fact, what we've gotten, I do not believe that it is just "what you get." You make it sound like, just because the player chooses to come out after one year, that

1. the team has to draft him, or
2. even if they do draft him, that they have to play him immediately.

Now, while I don't really think that there's anything that can be done about kids leaving college early, even if Silver succeeds in pushing the age minimum to twenty, the ball club still is not obligated to play a guy who isn't ready. And yeah, some players are ready to contribute from jump street, but most aren't. And I look at it like this: there is, roughly, a month between the start of NBA training camp, and the start of D-League training camp; it shouldn't take any coach or general manager worth a **** a whole month to figure out whether their rookie is ready or not.

And, as I said before, I agree with this. It doesn't serve any purpose to send McLemore to the D-League at this point; he should have been sent down in November.

Sometimes, I think you just like to argue because I'm not sure how you took what I said, and turned it into, because a player chooses to come out after one year, that a team has to draft him, or that if they draft him, they have to play him immediately. Nor did I say that there was a rule saying that if you drafted him, you had to play him on the parent team. Any team can draft whom ever they please as long as the player is draft eligible, and its their turn to choose. And where they decide to play that player is up to them. Obviously you disagree with the Kings approach with McLemore. That's fine! I completely understand. I was merely trying to explain why the Kings may have chosen to go the route they did. Personally, I'm not that upset about it. I didn't expect this current team to be very good. But as I said, I completely understand your point of view.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

You said that players coming to the league not ready is "what you get" in a one-and-done situation. My contention is that it doesn't have to be what you get, even in a one-and-done situation. Second only to the proliferation of the three-point field goal, the single biggest reason why the quality of basketball has declined, in my opinion, is because of kids playing before they're ready. Not because of kids being drafted; I don't entirely care if they're drafted. It's when they play that I have a problem with it.

 

[bajaden]

You said that players coming to the league not ready is "what you get" in a one-and-done situation. My contention is that it doesn't have to be what you get, even in a one-and-done situation. Second only to the proliferation of the three-point field goal, the single biggest reason why the quality of basketball has declined, in my opinion, is because of kids playing before they're ready. Not because of kids being drafted; I don't entirely care if they're drafted. It's when they play that I have a problem with it.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm not saying you even have to draft a one and done player. Its just that, unfortunately, because of the current system, the players with the most potential are one and done players. That doesn't mean that all of them are like McLemore, who I think was drafted purely on his long range potential. I think there are some players in the coming draft that can step in and play right away. Jabari Parker springs to mind. If you do you homework, you might pick up a player that stayed in school, like a Lillard, who slid a little because he went to a mid level conference. I guess the question is, are you drafting for who can play now, or, are you drafting who you think is going to be the best player down the road? Unfortunately, the majority of the best players down the road are also the players with the most potential. I'm not arguing the right or wrong of it, I'm just saying that's the reality were stuck with. I don't happen to like it.

I agree totally with you on why the quality of play in the NBA has declined. The NBA is full of players that came into the league before they were ready. A lot of them don't have the basic fundamentals they should have. I certainly don't endorse it, and I wish I could change it. But at the moment we're stuck with it. All we can hope for, is that two years from now, McLemore looks like a solid starting SG. How he arrives at that point is up to the Kings.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

The problem is not whether or not they draft a player for "right now" or for down the road. The problem is when they draft a player that they think is ready "right now," and they're wrong, and then they double down on being wrong by not sending him down to the D-League to learn how to play.

 

[bajaden]

The problem is not whether or not they draft a player for "right now" or for down the road. The problem is when they draft a player that they think is ready "right now," and they're wrong, and then they double down on being wrong by not sending him down to the D-League to learn how to play.

I don't disagree! However, it doesn't bother me as much as it does you. Maybe if I was still paying for season tickets, it would. My question is, did they think McLemore was ready when they drafted him? The answer would give me more insight to their capabilities.

 

[rexb_kings]

As far as I remember, BMac was playing pretty good until LBJ put him in his highlight poster That's when you see his confidence and production started going down.

 

[CruzDude]

We've now jumped ahead nearly 4 weeks and have things changed! Ben has been getting the big minutes for all of March into April and his athleticism is really beginning to show thru. I agree with above that Ben is a guy that really could have benefitted with 1 or 2 more years of college. However, we now are seeing what he is capable of doing on the court at both ends. Long way from a finished product but the pieces are coming along nicely. Slowly for sure but most top echelon players take/took at least 3 years to begin to breakout. With the turmoil coming to a rest and a full summer league and training camp ahead, I see Ben at the 2 for quite awhile and when he gets his jumper nailed down, wow!!