Selfish play wearing Landry down

RookieOfTheDay

RookieOfTheDay

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#1
#1
http://www.sacbee.com/2011/01/27/3355687/ailene-voisin-selfish-play-is.html

This quote speaks volumes...

"We ran and everybody shared the ball," he said, "and when we didn't have anything on the break, we'd run pick and rolls. We won 22 straight games (in 2007-08) without Yao (Ming) and mostly without Tracy McGrady. We could do that here, but that's not what we do, and you have to play the system the coach (Paul Westphal) wants."

That's basically saying...We're losing because of the coach won't run plays for us.
 
RookieOfTheDay

RookieOfTheDay

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#3
#3
juicij36 said:
Either that, or there are (semi-)selfish players on the court messing up the flow of the offense/plays that the coach has drawn up.
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Yeah that could be it to but I don't think Carl was alluding to that. Saying "you have to play the system the coach (Paul Westphal) wants" sounds like he's saying what we see is what they're being told to do.
 
Spike

Spike

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#5
#5
Aren't these quotes from a different piece about Landry wanting to stay? It's seems chopped...for convenience by the author. AV?
 
P

pshn80

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#7
#7
That's what a columnist does. This article is not a "news" item. Always sorry to see a player speak out like this. Not a good sign except for the importance of freedom of speech. However, speeking out this congeanially and openly is better than otherwise. Of course, what is says is not news. We here have been commenting about the one-on-one play all season. Incidentally, I think that kind of play was left over from last year when Tyreke was good at it and using it well for what little success the team had, and for his assault on ROY. I think he was allowed/encouraged to do it because it was useful in building the Tyreke image, his ROY campaign, selling tickets, etc. This year has not been Tyreke's so far and that past emphasis is haunting us and team success. Sort of hard to turn off.
 
bajaden

bajaden

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#10
#10
Spike said:
Aren't these quotes from a different piece about Landry wanting to stay? It's seems chopped...for convenience by the author. AV?
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No! This is from a new interview in the Bee today. There's no doubt that Landry takes a shot at Westphal, and at the disaray of the Kings in general over the last few years, mentioning that JT has had 4 different coaches in the time he's been here and that most of them probably wern't very good. I didn't detect any malice in Landry's statements. He appeared to be telling it like he saw it. Be interesting to see if Westphal comes down with a fine or not.

Here's an excerpt from one of Sam's comments while doing and internet question and answer session with Jones.

samick: I'm not sure if I agree with Carl's assessment that the 2007-08 Rockets (without Yao and McGrady) were less talented, mainly because Shane Battier was on that team and he is exactly the sort of talented, veteran presence the Kings don't have now at that spot. That's a huge difference, but Carl's point still rings true in terms of this group clearly underperforming. I'd be lying if I said I consistently heard positive things about how Westphal uses his talent.

Now if Westphal were going to be fired it probably would have happened already. So I expect him to be here till the end of the season, unless it gets so embarrasing to the Maloofs that they can't stand it anymore. But please don't insult my intelligence by saying he's doing a great job..
 
R

rhythmless

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#11
#11
Says the guy with the worst assist/to and assist ratio of any king not named Wright or Whiteside, sporting not even an assist a game, a .09 assist to fga and a .08 assist to possession rating.

Basically, Landry doesn't care if they pass the ball, he cares that they're not passing to him.

Also, I don't think Landry wants to be here, he just doesn't wnat to prematurely exclude a team in his contract year. His numbers are down and you can see he's frustrated beyond basketball. When we traded for Landry, we forgot to ask for Mandry, because he sure as hell ain't here this season.
 
rainmaker

rainmaker

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#12
#12
"The basketball IQ on this team is not very good," Landry said, "and that (knowledge) takes time. If you look at J.T. (Thompson), he's had three or four coaches in his four years, coaches that probably weren't that good. Everybody in this league can play. But it's about spacing, having the right guys on the floor, running the right play. Move the ball. Set back screens, down screens, and play together. Our shooting percentage is so low because everything is one-on-one."


Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/2011/01/27/3355687/ailene-voisin-selfish-play-is.html#ixzz1CGQNh600​
I thought this quote was pretty telling as well. Once again we have a player implying our coach and our system is holding us back.

One of my biggest criticisms of Westy is that he doesn't call enough plays from the sideline during a game, and doesn't appear to hold all 5 guys responsible for running plays. Given our team is young and inexperienced, I think you need to call plays more frequently, and not let such a young team freelance as often as it does.

The lack of structure and recognition we see on offense during games, is a result of our age, and collective experience, but a coach can help with that. It just appears to me there are too many opportunities in our offense to break off into isolation, and some of the guys aren't being held accountable for breaking plays. How many consecutive trips up the floor have we seen Tyreke dance with the ball, and ignore Cousins in the post with his man on his back? How many times do we enter the ball into Dally and just stand and watch? How many times do Tyreke and Beno dribble the ball up top, and make a single pass to the wing for a contested 3 from Omri or Cisco?

Far too often this team comes down the floor, and doesn't set up the offense, or run a play. I think Westy is hoping these guys figure it out on their own more than he's helping them to figure it out. For example, I can't imagine our playbook ends with a Dally iso 15 ft from the basket, which happens 2-3 times per game. That happens because guys aren't in their right positions on offense, which goes back to setting up and running our offense.
 
Sarunas

Sarunas

G-League
#14
#14
Says the ballstopper himself....but there is validation to his statements, and while it might not be his best idea ever, he is publicly calling it how he sees it. Realistically I think we knows and our team knows he wont be here after summer, so I don't see this really taking much of a toll on him or the team.
 
rainmaker

rainmaker

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#15
#15
Sarunas said:
Says the ballstopper himself....but there is validation to his statements, and while it might not be his best idea ever, he is publicly calling it how he sees it. Realistically I think we knows and our team knows he wont be here after summer, so I don't see this really taking much of a toll on him or the team.
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If the team is growing tired of the lack of structure and accountability, and others on the team share the same opinion, which they most likely do, then it is taking a toll on the team. This is more than whether or not Carl is here passed this season. This would directly take a toll on the chemistry and development of everyone on the roster. I don't think this is just a Landry vs Westy situation.
 
S

Superman

All-Star
#16
#16
I don't know why the title of the thread is about "selfish play." I don't think any of the players are being selfish, and I don't think that's what Landry was saying. I think we take bad shots, don't move the ball enough, and turn it over too often. Reke over penetrates, Greene rushes jumpers, Omri is a gunner. I don't think any of them are selfish. And before you bang on him for taking bad shots, read the article, because he admits that he's been a part of the problem.

I think what he's saying is that whatever system we run on offense isn't producing enough ball and player movement, and that's why our offense stalls so often. We're more talented than the Rockets were without Yao and McGrady, but we ain't winnin' no 22 games in a row. And a big part of that is our lack of continuity on offense.

Ironically, he praises the system of the coach that we jettisoned all those years ago. Even if we never were to win a championship with Rick Adelman, we'd be much better off with him than we have been with the posers we've had in here the past five years. And Westphal is the best of the poser bunch, by a long shot.
 
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chief bromden

chief bromden

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#17
#17
RookieOfTheDay said:
http://www.sacbee.com/2011/01/27/3355687/ailene-voisin-selfish-play-is.html

This quote speaks volumes...

"We ran and everybody shared the ball," he said, "and when we didn't have anything on the break, we'd run pick and rolls. We won 22 straight games (in 2007-08) without Yao (Ming) and mostly without Tracy McGrady. We could do that here, but that's not what we do, and you have to play the system the coach (Paul Westphal) wants."

That's basically saying...We're losing because of the coach won't run plays for us.
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Ummmm... or that the coach's "playset" counteracts running, and when running isn't possible, establishing a pick and roll game. Are you suggesting that the players have the ability to override Westphal's "playcalling" and "system" when it isn't working and just simply don't have to ability to act within or out of the system based upon this statement? Unless it is Tyreke Evans, it seems as though the rest of the players are subject to lengthened benching if they do not appease the "system"

If Westphal is a satisfactory coach, RookieOfTheDay, why did he fail so miserably at Pepperdine with his own recruits?
 
Rockmeister

Rockmeister

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#18
#18
rhythmless said:
Says the guy with the worst assist/to and assist ratio of any king not named Wright or Whiteside, sporting not even an assist a game, a .09 assist to fga and a .08 assist to possession rating.

Basically, Landry doesn't care if they pass the ball, he cares that they're not passing to him.
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I was thinking the exact same thing. Landry rarely ever passes even if he is guarded by several defenders, he just throws it towards the basket.

I don't want Landry here and hope the Kings trade him.
 
Sarunas

Sarunas

G-League
#19
#19
rainmaker said:
If the team is growing tired of the lack of structure and accountability, and others on the team share the same opinion, which they most likely do, then it is taking a toll on the team. This is more than whether or not Carl is here passed this season. This would directly take a toll on the chemistry and development of everyone on the roster. I don't think this is just a Landry vs Westy situation.
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I see what you're saying, but I think if Carl is truly on his way out, these quotes wouldn't resonate in a horrible way with the players. I should have been more clear. I mean I don't think these quotes and him going public with his opinions won't have a huge toll on the team. The entirety of the situation? Yes, of course, as you pointed out. It is killing us.

I only say this because I think he is saying it how it is. He didn't specifically call out single players, he called out everyone, which is warranted and I think other players probably share the same thoughts as him. If he was singling certain players out, or saying something that might be disagreed upon by a majority of the locker room, then I could see how it would throw a rift through our chemistry and players.
 
bajaden

bajaden

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#20
#20
rhythmless said:
Says the guy with the worst assist/to and assist ratio of any king not named Wright or Whiteside, sporting not even an assist a game, a .09 assist to fga and a .08 assist to possession rating.

Basically, Landry doesn't care if they pass the ball, he cares that they're not passing to him.

Also, I don't think Landry wants to be here, he just doesn't wnat to prematurely exclude a team in his contract year. His numbers are down and you can see he's frustrated beyond basketball. When we traded for Landry, we forgot to ask for Mandry, because he sure as hell ain't here this season.
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Before commenting, go read the article. He takes responsibility for not passing the ball, and explains what happens to a team when the ball doesn't move.
 
R

rhythmless

Starter
#21
#21
rainmaker said:
"The basketball IQ on this team is not very good," Landry said, "and that (knowledge) takes time. If you look at J.T. (Thompson), he's had three or four coaches in his four years, coaches that probably weren't that good. Everybody in this league can play. But it's about spacing, having the right guys on the floor, running the right play. Move the ball. Set back screens, down screens, and play together. Our shooting percentage is so low because everything is one-on-one."​



I thought this quote was pretty telling as well. Once again we have a player implying our coach and our system is holding us back.
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So, when Landry holds the ball 19 feet away, moves it around in a circular motion, goes back to triple threat, takes a jab step, and then shoots it 4 seconds later, THAT's the play Westphal called for? Gimme a break Landry.

The lack of ball movement is true, but when he gets the ball he is no better. He can argue the chicken/egg syndrome, but it's obvious that when he gets the ball he is thinking of his stats and his next paycheck, not the team.
 
bajaden

bajaden

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#22
#22
Sarunas said:
I see what you're saying, but I think if Carl is truly on his way out, these quotes wouldn't resonate in a horrible way with the players. I should have been more clear. I mean I don't think these quotes and him going public with his opinions won't have a huge toll on the team. The entirety of the situation? Yes, of course, as you pointed out. It is killing us.

I only say this because I think he is saying it how it is. He didn't specifically call out single players, he called out everyone, which is warranted and I think other players probably share the same thoughts as him. If he was singling certain players out, or saying something that might be disagreed upon by a majority of the locker room, then I could see how it would throw a rift through our chemistry and players.
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I think the biggest shot was across Westphal's bow. There was a direct implication to what is happening on the team and Westphal's system. I don't think he implied that anyone was selfish, but there was too much one on one and isolation play. I don't think Tyreke stands there and dribbles the ball at the end of games because he's selfish, but because he thinks its expected of him to win the game. And if true, the person that created that mentality in Evans is Westphal. I'm sure Westphal enjoyed reading the morning paper. I'm curious to see what the fallout is going to be.
 
N

Nighthawk1

Starter
#23
#23
bajaden said:
Before commenting, go read the article. He takes responsibility for not passing the ball, and explains what happens to a team when the ball doesn't move.
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Let me help those who can't read..
"When players don't know when they're going to touch the ball again," he said with a sheepish grin, "you tend to shoot it when you get it."
 
R

rhythmless

Starter
#24
#24
Nighthawk1 said:
Let me help those who can't read..
"When players don't know when they're going to touch the ball again," he said with a sheepish grin, "you tend to shoot it when you get it."
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So you helped illiterate people by posting more words? Bravo.

Witfail aside, Landry is 1/12th of the team. If he wants the team to play properly, he should start with himself. How can you criticize something while you are part of the problem. Judging from the stats, he is one of the larger problems, actually. I understand what he is saying, but if he wants to get it to work, he needs to play within the system too. He can't say, "oh, no one passes," then go ahead and shoot it every chance he gets. Doesn't work that way, people won't respect your opinions.

edit: for a guy who doesn't know when he'll get the ball, he sure finishes a lot of possessions; he is third on the team in terms of attempted shots per minute; only Tyreke and Cuz are higher.
 
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rainmaker

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#25
#25
rhythmless said:
So, when Landry holds the ball 19 feet away, moves it around in a circular motion, goes back to triple threat, takes a jab step, and then shoots it 4 seconds later, THAT's the play Westphal called for? Gimme a break Landry.

The lack of ball movement is true, but when he gets the ball he is no better. He can argue the chicken/egg syndrome, but it's obvious that when he gets the ball he is thinking of his stats and his next paycheck, not the team.
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First, he already admitted to being part of the problem. Second, just because he is part of the problem, doesn't mean his opinion on the culture and why these problems exist in the first place doesn't hold any weight. He's saying because there isn't much structure or accountability from the head coach, it leads to more selfish play, and yes, he's a part of it.
 
L

Lockehead

Bench
#27
#27
rhythmless said:
So, when Landry holds the ball 19 feet away, moves it around in a circular motion, goes back to triple threat, takes a jab step, and then shoots it 4 seconds later, THAT's the play Westphal called for? Gimme a break Landry.

The lack of ball movement is true, but when he gets the ball he is no better. He can argue the chicken/egg syndrome, but it's obvious that when he gets the ball he is thinking of his stats and his next paycheck, not the team.
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I dont think thats selfish. I think hes just doing what hes good at. Its not like he just throws up a totally random shot out of nowhere. He waits for his teammates to get into position either for getting the rebound or to pass to. He is a pretty good face up player, and one of our more consistent talents on our team, so i dont object to him being iso'd because hes shown he can be a pretty good matchup for other PFs out there *on the offensive end. He draws double teams at times, and i think hes getting better at passing back out when it happens. When hes off the ball, he fights to get rebounds and sets a good amount of screens.
 
R

rhythmless

Starter
#28
#28
Lockehead said:
I dont think thats selfish. I think hes just doing what hes good at. Its not like he just throws up a totally random shot out of nowhere. He waits for his teammates to get into position either for getting the rebound or to pass to. He is a pretty good face up player, and one of our more consistent talents on our team, so i dont object to him being iso'd because hes shown he can be a pretty good matchup for other PFs out there *on the offensive end. He draws double teams at times, and i think hes getting better at passing back out when it happens. When hes off the ball, he fights to get rebounds and sets a good amount of screens.
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*Looks @ fg% this season, looks @ contested 18 foot jumpers. looks @ assist metrics. looks at rebounding rates.*

*shakes head*

Landry's a good talent. I think the problem was that we were projecting his career arc as something more than what it is. This may have led him to believe his own talents were more than they are. As a 6th man with lots of personnel to cover up his deficiencies, he's gold. I just don't think we are using him properly, and the change back to his old role may have him confused because he thought he was starting caliber
 
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L

Lockehead

Bench
#29
#29
What do those have to do with selfishness? his fg% is down, but hes the 2nd most efficient scorer on our team. His assists are low, i think he could do better. But if you look at his role on the court, it doesnt really give him much opportunities to be setting players up or finding open players.
 
Spike

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#30
#30
D13 said:
As per Jason Jones twitter today:
Landry says comments in Bee were out of context, apologized to coach and team.
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So first article:
"I like Sacramento, we have youth and talent."

Second article:
"Sacramento's OK, I guess. Too bad we're a selfish team, myself included, but we're just dealing with the coach's crap."

Third:
"The second was out of context. Those who wrote the article will be sacked. Those responsible for sacking those who wrote the article will also be sacked."

If it weren't an AV article, I would've ignored his retraction. As is, I'll take his comments at face value, but nothing more. Ailene is a crafty writer who always has an agenda.
 
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