Say We Draft Harden....
- Thread starter Kingster
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beb0p
Starter
The appeal of a James Harden is that you don't need a true PG if he's on the team. He already does some of the PG things better many PGs and there's no need for two playmaking guards on the floor, imo. Put Beno next to Harden and I think Beno will suddenly be transformed
I'd keep two guys (Martin and Harden) for a short while and see what happens. I actually think they can play together.
I'd keep two guys (Martin and Harden) for a short while and see what happens. I actually think they can play together.
Kings Faithful
Starter
Does anyone know if Harden would be able to play SF for us? Because if he can that would be much better than trading Martin...
nbrans
All-Star
He's 6'4". He's barely tall enough to be a shooting guard, let alone a SF.
Sarunas
G-League
Dont get me wrong, I love the guys game, but I dont know how it translates well with this team, but maybe i will be proved wrong. I think its a little far fetched to say if we draft harden we will assume he will be so good that he automatically makes martin expendable before harden plays any or many games in a kings uni
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Kingster
Hall of Famer
It may be, but you never know. We don't know where we are going to pick and who is available. Petrie may be faced with drafting Harden or somebody in a need position that is just not as good of a player. Stranger things have happened.
Sarunas
G-League
Im honestly not looking too far into this draft thing until we have some players workout for the team. And like you said, with Petrie calling the shots, its always hard to say what kind of player were gonna go for.
Dustinlikestodance
G-League
Harden DID have 11 assists last night against a normally strong UCLA D. That and Arizona St. just blew out UCLA. Warming up to him, but like most people have been saying, he's not really a Petrie type of player and he doesn't fit a need.
Thabeet isn't a Petrie type of player either, but I'm sure Petrie has been watching the same interior D as we have.
That said, I like Harden's combination of crafty athleticism and strength.
Thabeet isn't a Petrie type of player either, but I'm sure Petrie has been watching the same interior D as we have.
That said, I like Harden's combination of crafty athleticism and strength.
Dustinlikestodance
G-League
^this is true haha. I didn't wach the game so I don't know how he got those turnovers. From the highlights, it seems like he could have gotten many of those turnovers on charges. He was going HARD to the basket, and even though he had some good +1's, some of them could've ended up being charges.
Sptsjunkie
Starter
Most of his turnovers were sloppy ball handling. He's a darn good player, but he definitley needs to work on his ball handling.
beb0p
Starter
I actually think Harden didn't have that good a game. Don't get me wrong, his stats look good but his ballhandling was sloppy. Several of them unforced TOs and at least a couple times he just lost the handle while making a move. His jumpers wasn't falling and he wasn't even looking to shoot beyond 10 ft, even if he did nailed one 3-pter.
But the point is, last nite is what Harden can give you when he's struggling. Now project forward 3 yrs into the future, when Harden will be merely 22; his game more consistent, his jumpers is already good but by then even better, his ballhandling less sloppy, and he learned to cut down on the TOs. He can be scary good. This is just to point out that yes, his proponents are aware of his athleticism and size issue, but you make a list of players who can get away with those shortcommings, Harden is on the list.
And lastly, UCLA was doubling teamming Harden a lot. Basicly forced him to shoot less and pass more. And it essentiallly confirms my earlier theory that Harden can play like Ricky Rubio if he chooses to, and rack up a lot of assists in the process.
As for the size issue, we don't know if he's 6'3,6'4, or 6'5 until the measurement. If he has similar wing span and standing reach as say, an Eric Gordon, then I think Harden shouldn't have any size problem in the NBA. I always think it's a combination of height, wing span, reach, and vertical that determines whether a guy is too small, just right, or oversized.
But the point is, last nite is what Harden can give you when he's struggling. Now project forward 3 yrs into the future, when Harden will be merely 22; his game more consistent, his jumpers is already good but by then even better, his ballhandling less sloppy, and he learned to cut down on the TOs. He can be scary good. This is just to point out that yes, his proponents are aware of his athleticism and size issue, but you make a list of players who can get away with those shortcommings, Harden is on the list.
And lastly, UCLA was doubling teamming Harden a lot. Basicly forced him to shoot less and pass more. And it essentiallly confirms my earlier theory that Harden can play like Ricky Rubio if he chooses to, and rack up a lot of assists in the process.
As for the size issue, we don't know if he's 6'3,6'4, or 6'5 until the measurement. If he has similar wing span and standing reach as say, an Eric Gordon, then I think Harden shouldn't have any size problem in the NBA. I always think it's a combination of height, wing span, reach, and vertical that determines whether a guy is too small, just right, or oversized.
beb0p
Starter
Who's comparing Harden to Eric Gordon? All I said is that if their wing span and standing reach are similar then Harden shouldn't have size problems. All those guys bring different things to the table and no one is making those comparison because it'd be pointless.
Disclaimer: My liking of Harden is in no way indicative that I don't like other prospects. Nor am I predicting Harden will be a superstar. Nor am I saying he is comparable to any current or former players. Nor am I saying that he doesn't duplicate a position we've already filled.
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nbrans
All-Star
Um. You are?
Height, standing reach, etc. alone don't tell you much of anything. It's height plus athleticism. You're at a major disadvantage if you're a shooting guard below 6'6", and the only ones who make it work are crazy athletes. Harden's not a crazy athlete, he's not even a good athlete. He's average to below average, and yeah, we'll see his height, but he looked about as tall as Jrue Holiday.
Maybe he'll get by on guile, strength and craftiness alone, but I'd rather some other team took that gamble. We already have a young 25 ppg shooting guard on a reasonable contract. Let someone else conduct the James Harden experiment.
I don't think Harden had any charges.
Let me rephrase that. I don't think Harden had any charges that were CALLED.
Really? I thought he looked an inch easy and possibly two inches taller than Holiday.
Holiday is listed at 6'3" but I saw an interview where he was specifcally asked about the listing and he claimed to be 6'4". It's hard to know what to take from that, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Harden measure over 6'5" in shoes for the draft.
beb0p
Starter
Boy, even after the disclaimer, I just knew there are people who will read my post and see what they want to see.
I didn't and would never compare Eric Gordon to Harden. They are completely different type of players.
I was talking about *size* only. And when I say *similar*, I mean *similar*, as in "doesn't have to be exactly the same." If one is slightly taller, wider, longer, so be it. Just have to be similar. And again, only talking about size, not athleticism, game, vertical, or even haircut.
I'd say it's not as simple as just height + athleticism. Everything comes into play, including things we can measure like height, vertical, reach, wingspan, strength etc; and things we can't measure like body control, quickness of the jump, balance, etc. The point is you can't just look at how tall a person is from head to toe and how high he jumps and say definitively one way or the other.
For example, people like to say that Brand is undersized. Brand is not undersized, he just appears smaller because he has a short neck (according to the Bulls)! Everything else on Brand's body, wingspan, standing reach, etc is similar to a guy much taller. Note: it's just an example, I'm *not* comparing Harden to Brand!
The point is, Joe Dumars, Delonte West, Cat Mobley and several others are under 6'6 and are surely not crazy athlete.
nbrans
All-Star
Again, what I'm saying is that it's pointless to look just at height, or even height plus wingspan, starting reach, etc. etc. etc. Luke Harangody is as tall as Shawn Marion. What does that tell you? Absolutely nothing.
Obviously "athleticism" is a catch-all that doesn't boil down to only a vertical. But I'd say it's still mostly about jumping and quickness. The other stuff, like body control, strength (for a guard), etc. is usually beside the point.
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beb0p
Starter
In that case, you're making the same point I made.
nbrans
All-Star
lol, yeah, I think we are saying the same thing.
beb0p
Starter
Yeah, we probably are.
If it communicates better, I guess if you take Cat Mobley, make him stronger and less selfish, give him PG vision, raise his bball IQ sligtly (note I'm not saying the Cat has low bball IQ at all, just that I think Harden has a better feel for the game than Cat) and make him a better dribbler, then I think we'd have a pretty close version of what Harden will be like in 3-4 yrs.But again, I understand why people are concerned about his size and athleticism. Believe me, I have the same concern too, but I think in his case the plus outweights the minus. I would not say the same for all 6'4 SGs with good but not great athleticism.
Um.. Harden was about inch or inch and half taller than Holiday on the TV. Say, Holiday is 6'3". Harden could easily be 6'4" or 6'4.5". Also, Harden is not a below average athlete. If you saw the highlights, Harden jumps pretty high when he dunks. We have to wait and see how measurement comes out, but I think Harden has no problem in NBA as a SG.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
2. Arizona State sophomore shooting guard James Harden. At last, a player upon whom the experts agree: The 6-5 Harden can become an NBA star.
"He reminds me a little bit of [Paul] Pierce because he's not a great athlete, he's not a high riser, but he's sneaky athletic,'' a GM said. "He's long, he's strong, he's got good size for a wing player, he shoots it. He's got poise, he plays at a good pace. He's got to get better at his ball handling, but I think he's got a chance to be a really good player.''
Said another GM: "He has such a great feel, kind of like Brandon Roy or Chris Mullin. He will be able to play with older players right away. And he has top-drawer character. The only thing I'll say is that he's got a little Rasheed [Wallace] in him, and I'm not talking about the technicals, because he's a mild-mannered guy. But he has that dimension where his teammates love him, and he wants to be one of the guys more than he wants to be Kobe. He's more Robin than Batman, but that can be a good thing too. If you get him together with a stud, that's a perfect combination.''
At least someone likes him. But what the hell do GM's and NBA scouts know.
"He reminds me a little bit of [Paul] Pierce because he's not a great athlete, he's not a high riser, but he's sneaky athletic,'' a GM said. "He's long, he's strong, he's got good size for a wing player, he shoots it. He's got poise, he plays at a good pace. He's got to get better at his ball handling, but I think he's got a chance to be a really good player.''
Said another GM: "He has such a great feel, kind of like Brandon Roy or Chris Mullin. He will be able to play with older players right away. And he has top-drawer character. The only thing I'll say is that he's got a little Rasheed [Wallace] in him, and I'm not talking about the technicals, because he's a mild-mannered guy. But he has that dimension where his teammates love him, and he wants to be one of the guys more than he wants to be Kobe. He's more Robin than Batman, but that can be a good thing too. If you get him together with a stud, that's a perfect combination.''
At least someone likes him. But what the hell do GM's and NBA scouts know.
kingsnation
All-Star
We need someone to come in here and be Batman. We haven't had that since Webb.
BTW, which article is this??
nbrans
All-Star
Not a whole lot more than we do.
And here's what Chad Ford said recently:
"A number of NBA executives are wondering whether Harden's lack of explosive athleticism will hurt his game in the pros. But I've also spoken to NBA executives who are in love with his old-school game. So although he still is a lock for the lottery, I think it's safe to say he's no longer a lock for the top three selections. We have him at No. 5 on our updated big board."
Nobody knows anything, basically.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draf...mnist=ford_chad&page=InsiderDraftWatch-090206
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bajaden
Hall of Famer
As I've said before, its all subjective. My subjective is just different than your subjective, or maybe not.
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