Sacramento/Toronto

[nbrans]

It's a slow day around here, so here's an idea for a cap-clearing move and a way of getting a second 1st round pick.

Brad Miller
Francisco Garcia

for

Morris Peterson
Fred Jones
Pape Sow
Toronto's 2007 1st Round Pick

Toronto would cement their Atlantic Division win with this move, and all they give up are Peterson and some spare parts. It would also complete their transition to a passing Euro-style team.

The Kings clear Brad's contract going into the offseason and get another pick.

My preference would be for Brad to stay, and this is the eiptome of a 25 cents on the dollar trade, but this would also cement the tanking the season route and set up an offseason with two draft picks (one good one mid-round) and quite a lot of cap space, especially if Bibby opts out.

 

[thedofd]

If I were giving up that much, I'd probably ask for Garbajosa or Calderon as part of the deal.

 

[nbrans]

If I were giving up that much, I'd probably ask for Garbajosa or Calderon as part of the deal.

I don't think Toronto would go for it. The key is that first rounder -- that's a very valuable chip, currently the 14th pick in the draft.

 

[ImAKing]

Colangelo wouldnt want Brad. he isnt fast enough to fit their style of play.

If I were giving up that much, I'd probably ask for Garbajosa or Calderon as part of the deal.

talent wise, we are giving up more. but if you can get rid of Brad for expirings AND a good pick, you do it in a heart beat.

 

[thedofd]

I don't think Toronto would go for it. The key is that first rounder -- that's a very valuable chip, currently the 14th pick in the draft.

Here are the No. 14 picks from this decade, starting with the most recent:

Ronnie Brewer
Rashad McCants
Kris Humphries
Luke Ridnour
Fred Jones
Troy Murphy
Mateen Cleaves


Brad may be underachieving, to be kind, this year. But would you really trade him and 'Cisco to Toronto for, in essence, Mo Pete and one of those guys? Mo Pete isn't exactly the most consistent player in the league, by the way. While I like him a little, not sure what he brings to the party that Martin and Salmons don't.

 

[nbrans]

^This isn't just any draft.

And the trade isn't Brad Miller for spare parts (I doubt the Kings would re-sign any of those guys), it's Brad Miller for a pick and cap space. The Kings could go after Darko or Verejao in the offseason, or for a trade for someone like KG or your friend Pau Gasol in the offseason without having to make the salaries match. With that kind of cap space the Kings actually could theoretically trade Kevin Martin for Pau Gasol straight up.

 

[Vlade4GM]

It's a slow day around here, so here's an idea for a cap-clearing move and a way of getting a second 1st round pick.

Brad Miller
Francisco Garcia

for

Morris Peterson
Fred Jones
Pape Sow
Toronto's 2007 1st Round Pick

Toronto would cement their Atlantic Division win with this move, and all they give up are Peterson and some spare parts. It would also complete their transition to a passing Euro-style team.

The Kings clear Brad's contract going into the offseason and get another pick.

My preference would be for Brad to stay, and this is the eiptome of a 25 cents on the dollar trade, but this would also cement the tanking the season route and set up an offseason with two draft picks (one good one mid-round) and quite a lot of cap space, especially if Bibby opts out.

i've had the same idea of brad going to toronto, but i think their plan is that they want bargnani and bosh at the 4 and 5 spots, maybe not but that's the impression i got from some raptors fans. plus they're kinda happy with nesterovic. their biggest need right now is a swingman. i don't think they're going to give up a first pick and enders for brad even though he kinda fits their style.

 

[Jerryaki]

greetings, nbrans.

would miller be all that attractive to toronto? he's a good passing center, but they're molding an athletic running team, which he wouldn't fit too well in.

but i'm all for getting that second pick.

 

[nbrans]

^Dunno. They traded for Rasho and he's not exactly a running center, but maybe they do see themselves smallballing it most of the time, in which case Miller might not be a good fit (they also might not want to be paying two centers so much money).

It seems to me that Miller would fit their halfcourt offense really well though, and you don't need all 5 guys on a fast break.

 

[thedofd]

^This isn't just any draft.

And the trade isn't Brad Miller for spare parts (I doubt the Kings would re-sign any of those guys), it's Brad Miller for a pick and cap space. The Kings could go after Darko or Verejao in the offseason, or for a trade for someone like KG or your friend Pau Gasol in the offseason without having to make the salaries match. With that kind of cap space the Kings actually could theoretically trade Kevin Martin for Pau Gasol straight up.

To say "This isn't just any draft" ... well, you simply cannot tell until a year or two afterwards. All the experts probably agree that it's "not just any draft" at the very top. But if you know for a fact who the 14th-best player will be -- and that he will be of any value -- for the love of Joe Kleine send your resume to the Kings. For all we know, the 14th best player is some guy no one has ever heard of in Brazil or Italy whose talent won't be obvious for another three years.

As for using cap space to sign a free agent or make a trade, I'd like to see how the numbers pencil out, but, OK, I'll buy that.

However, when you say you could "theoretically" make a future trade by virtue of doing this deal, I harken back to the C-Webb trade, which, in theory, was going to allow the Kings to move all the smaller pieces -- Skinner, Corliss and K.T. -- and replenish the roster.

So the notion of cause and effect -- we take a talent hit on this trade in order to set up the next deal -- doesn't always the work out the way you hope.

 

[Smills91]

If we "dump" Brad, Kenny better be going with him...

 

[Vlade4GM]

If we "dump" Brad, Kenny better be going with him...

which would make it virtually impossible to go down. it would be hard enough to dump brad miller as is, but then you tell the other team they gotta take kt's horrific deal what do you think they're going to say?

 

[Heuge]

Way under value of the 2 players.

 

[Wuster]

The .25 coming back on the buck is scary, but you're on track with the right thought process. Cap room and picks.

 

[Miles and Miles]

Here are the No. 14 picks from this decade, starting with the most recent:

Ronnie Brewer
Rashad McCants
Kris Humphries
Luke Ridnour
Fred Jones
Troy Murphy
Mateen Cleaves

14 has just been an unlucky number recently. A lot of better players have been drafted behind those ones. Take for example the 2004 draft which would probably be the most recent year where you can see the development of the players. In that draft so of the guys that were drafted behind the 14th pick of Kris Humphries were: Al Jefferson (15), Josh Smith (17), JR Smith (18), Dorell Wright (19) Jameer Nelson (20), Delonte West (24), and Kevin Martin (26). All pretty good players with potential. I'm not saying if I would do the trade or not, just getting the facts straight.

 

[thedofd]

14 has just been an unlucky number recently. A lot of better players have been drafted behind those ones. Take for example the 2004 draft which would probably be the most recent year where you can see the development of the players. In that draft so of the guys that were drafted behind the 14th pick of Kris Humphries were: Al Jefferson (15), Josh Smith (17), JR Smith (18), Dorell Wright (19) Jameer Nelson (20), Delonte West (24), and Kevin Martin (26). All pretty good players with potential. I'm not saying if I would do the trade or not, just getting the facts straight.

You can do that for almost any pick in most drafts -- find guys who were under- or over-valued at the time. The fact remains that the guys I listed ARE the guys who were picked by committees of GMs, scouts, player personnel experts, coaches, etc., who spend lots more time researching the prospects than any of us.

That's why I get a bit nervous when I hear people throwing around terms like "sure thing" or "great draft," devaluing experience and proven capability for potential. The draft is not an exact science.

 

[Bricklayer]

I do that and do not look back. If you can get a second pick under #20 in this draft for any of our major guys, I am there. Let alone cap room and servicible role players.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I like it too. I honestly think a lot of us here are still way overvaluing Brad. This is a good way to move forward.

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

^Dunno. They traded for Rasho and he's not exactly a running center, but maybe they do see themselves smallballing it most of the time, in which case Miller might not be a good fit (they also might not want to be paying two centers so much money).

It seems to me that Miller would fit their halfcourt offense really well though, and you don't need all 5 guys on a fast break.

Rasho was solely for defensive purposes; he's quite an accomplished shotblocker (or at least used to be...but he nonetheless still has that reputation) and the Raps felt that they needed to pair up Bosh with a defensive-oriented, bulky legitimate center. I don't think they expected much out of Rasho at all, given his underachieving history; they just wanted another big body besides Bosh. And I think they're semi-satisfied with that, as the Raps have been surging as of late and aren't doing as bad as one might think.

Brad Miller wouldn't even fit into the scheme of things on that team; Colangelo is building a running team, and Brad...well, let's just say his speed is not up to par, to be polite. He can certainly pass, but the Raps have TJ Ford and Calderon who are already quite the passers. Brad's not really the guy for that team.

 

[Merdiesel]

I'd rather try and make a run at TJ ford.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

i've had the same idea of brad going to toronto, but i think their plan is that they want bargnani and bosh at the 4 and 5 spots, maybe not but that's the impression i got from some raptors fans. plus they're kinda happy with nesterovic. their biggest need right now is a swingman. i don't think they're going to give up a first pick and enders for brad even though he kinda fits their style.

i'm pretty sure bargnani is their future 3 or possibly 4 if he bulks up. miller would be a perfect compliment to their team. he would be able to stretch defenses so bosh could work in the low post on offense.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

LOL, make a run at TJ ford. cmon dude, get real- they're NOT gonna give up TJ Ford especially when they traded PF Charlie freaking Villanueva for him. so, who would we give up to get TJ ford? kmart? artest? bibby? keep in mind salaries have to be somewhat close in order for it to happen. nbrans trade is realistic and looks at it from both team views.

 

[Vlade4GM]

i'm pretty sure bargnani is their future 3 or possibly 4 if he bulks up. miller would be a perfect compliment to their team. he would be able to stretch defenses so bosh could work in the low post on offense.

normally players like bargnani can't stay at the 3, i think he'll eventually have to play the 4 and bosh move to the 5. i think with the kind of team they're building bosh at the 5 isn't that crazy of an idea. that's just my guess, i don't really know a whole lot about it.

 

[BMiller52]

I like it too. I honestly think a lot of us here are still way overvaluing Brad. This is a good way to move forward.

I agree. That cap space and the pick can be valuable to us and Brad isn't really needed on a rebuilding team.

 

[El_Filibusterismo]

Brad Miller
Francisco Garcia

for

Morris Peterson
Fred Jones
Pape Sow
Toronto's 2007 1st Round Pick

How about the above combo with a SEA/SAC trade I saw on another board.

Mike Bibby

for

Luke Ridnour
Danny Fortson
Damien Wilkens

In the offseason, I would also draft Yi Jianlian at our projected spot at around #8 or #9.

With Toronto's pick I would go with Tiago Splitter.

After expirings and trades, our 2008 Sacramento Kings would be...

PG: Ridnour/Douby
SG: Martin/Wilkens
SF: Artest/Salmons
PF: Jianlian/Thomas/Rahim
C: Splitter/Rahim

....with some room for a free agent signing.

 

[VF21]

Sorry, I'll pass.

 

[El_Filibusterismo]

Can I ask why?

I know we are still thin at the 4/5, but we get collectively younger and less expensive.

Wilkens is a decent backup for KMart, and Ridnour is a decent PG who is riding the bench right now in SEA. If Bibby opts out, I'd rather have Ridnour than start Douby.

The Kings get some young big man prospects with Yi on the offensive end and Splitter prowling for loose boards.

We can still sign a free agent such as Darko or PJ Brown for some veteran leadership. If that would make it more comfortable.

Yeah we don't get the greatest value in return, but the way the Kings are playing this year it may be the best we can get.

 

[VF21]

Sure. You're falling into the "best we can get" trap.

PG: Ridnour/Douby
SG: Martin/Wilkens
SF: Artest/Garcia
PF: Jianlian/Thomas/Rahim
C: Splitter/Rahim

That isn't a championship team, IMHO. And it's HORRIBLE at the 4/5.

 

[El_Filibusterismo]

Sure. You're falling into the "best we can get" trap.

PG: Ridnour/Douby
SG: Martin/Wilkens
SF: Artest/Garcia
PF: Jianlian/Thomas/Rahim
C: Splitter/Rahim

That isn't a championship team, IMHO. And it's HORRIBLE at the 4/5.

You're right. However, neither is the one we have now. At least with a youth movement there would be hope in 2-3 years.

 

[ezekielbear]

I don't believe Toronto has a pick this year if things continue the way they are and they make the playoffs.