Sac/NJ/LAL

[BawLa]

New Jersey

Outgoing:
Jason Kidd
Jason Collins
Jamaal Magloire
Sean Williams
#1 draft pick

Incoming:
Mike Bibby
Brad Miller
Vladimir Radmanovic
Sasha Vujacic

Lineup:
Bibby/Armstrong
Carter/Wright/Vujacic
Jefferson/Nachbar
Radmanovic/Allen/Boone
Miller/Kristic

Why they do it? NJ is locked in with Carter and Jefferson for a while and adding Miller and Bibby could make NJ the #4 team in the east. I don't think NJ wants to go young, so getting veterans for Kidd is a pretty good scenario. Bibby is an injury risk, but so is Magloire so that is a wash. They would be weaker defensively, but they could score a ton of points and would have multiple threats on the floor at all times.

Los Angeles

Outgoing:
Lamar Odom
Kwame Brown
Vladimir Radmanovic
Jordan Farmar
Chris Mihm
Sasha Vujacic
#1 draft pick

Incoming:
Jason Kidd
Jason Collins
Kenny Thomas

Lineup:
Kidd/Fisher/Crittenton
Bryant/Karl
Walton/Ariza
Turiaf/Thomas
Bynum/Collins

Why they do it? "2 superstars" has been a formula for success in LA, and converting Odom(star) into Kidd(superstar) is a positive situation. There would be no room for Farmar and Critt, so one becomes expendable. They get weaker at PF, but Bryant and Kidd will carry the team and make the scrubs look good.

Sacramento

Outgoing:
Mike Bibby
Brad Miller
Kenny Thomas

Incoming:
Jamaal Magloire
Sean Williams
Lamar Odom
Kwame Brown
Jordan Farmar
Chris Mihm (waived)
#1 draft pick (NJ)
#1 draft pick (LA)

*Daryl Watkins sent to NBDL

Lineup:
Udrih/Farmar/Douby
Martin/Salmons
Artest/Garcia
Odom/Moore/S.Williams/J.Williams
Magloire/Brown/Hawes

Why we do it? A bit of a cut-and-paste approach to the rebuild but a rebuild move nonetheless. Two veterans netting young talent, expiring contracts and draft picks. Hawes clearly needs more bulk before he can establish his offense, and therefore he will not warrant big minutes this year. If Jamaal looks good for the rest of the season, we could potentially extend him for 2-3 years while Hawes becomes established. Odom would give us rebounds and assists from our PF position, and Sean Williams is what we want Justin Williams to become.

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

1) They don't make deals this big. Another 13-player trade, plus two 1st round draft picks? Physically improbable, and suffice to say, did this work on trade machine?

2) This trade gives me the belief that we're overestimating Bibby's value out there. Obviously, he's still considered a top tier PG due to his past accolades, but he really shot subpar last year and didn't garner too many assists, and he's been injured all season. I think, like Artest, his trade value is actually lower than his actual talents/production as it stands. Brad Miller has been quite solid this year, but he's only getting older and memories of his regression last year may still linger in some GM's minds; he's got IMO as much value as an injured Bibby. Kenny Thomas's value is dropping like a rock; it was hard to trade him in the first place with his fat contract, but the longer we keep him, the more he gets exposed as an underachieving, perhaps cancerous player. It's probably hard to get value out of him despite attaching Bibby and Miller next to him.

3) Which brings me to the next point: We're just ROBBING every team involved in this trade. It's a major coup, considering that not only do we get an established semi-star in Lamar Odom, we also get two young studs who their respective teams would like to keep, in Sean Williams and Jordan Farmar. The Lakers won't give up so much to get Jason Kidd; that's gutting like half their roster. The Nets would never, ever attach Sean Williams to any trade whatsoever considering that Jason Collins sucks, and Krstic is constantly injured. It's even harder to think that the Lakers would take in two crappy big men (Jason Collins--dead last in PER last year in Hollinger's ratings; Kenny Thomas--don't need to say any more than that) attached to Kidd. This trade clearly benefits us, and I can't see any GM pulling this one off at any rate.

 

[BMiller52]

Wow, NJ gets raped. They give up the best player in the deal, a young athletic shotblocker, and their #1 draft pick for Mike Bibby and 2 bad contracts? That's horrible. Bibby's not better than Kidd or more valuable.

 

[chrisnu]

The Lakers are also giving up way too much for J-Kidd. More like Odom, Farmar, and Vujacic for Kidd, or Brown, Radmanovic and Farmar for Kidd. No need to have a third team involved.

 

[Lamar_Odom]

The Lakers need defense, not offense. They are giving up a lot of defense in that proposal and getting an aging Kidd on his last leg. It doesn't make the Lakers a contender, plus they are taking on a player who is seeking an extension who is clearly over the hill.

 

[BawLa]

Hmm...I see...

What about something like this?

New Jersey

Outgoing:
Jason Kidd
Jamaal Magloire
#1 draft pick

Incoming:
Lamar Odom
Brad Miller
Javaris Crittenton

Lineup:
Armstrong/Crittenton/Gill/Williams
Carter/Wright
Jefferson/Nachbar
Odom/Allen/Williams/Boone
Miller/Collins/Kristic

Los Angeles

Outgoing:
Lamar Odom
Javaris Crittenton
Chris Mihm
Sasha Vujacic

Incoming:
Jason Kidd

Lineup:
Kidd/Fisher/Farmar
Bryant/Karl
Walton/Ariza
Radmanovic/Turiaf
Bynum/Brown

Sacramento

Outgoing:
Brad Miller

Incoming:
Jamaal Magloire
Chris Mihm (waived)
Sasha Vujacic (waived)
#1 draft pick (NJ)

Lineup:
Bibby/Udrih/Douby
Martin/Salmons
Artest/Garcia
Moore/Williams/KT
Magloire/Hawes


How reasonable is that?

 

[Packt]

The Nets give up a first round pick to ship out Kidd? It would make more sense if they were receiving a pick for Kidd, not giving one away with Kidd.

 

[BawLa]

The Nets give up a first round pick to ship out Kidd? It would make more sense if they were receiving a pick for Kidd, not giving one away with Kidd.

They get Odom and Miller, two established veterans that would upgrade NJ at PF and C, and they get a young PG in Critt. They would have much more depth in scoring and would have better players on the floor at all times. Odom and Miller can both dish out assists, not in the mold of Kidd, but anytime you lose a 10 APG guy, you will not instantly replace that.

Just because they would be shipping out Kidd, doesn't mean they want to rebuild. And getting Critt would be like using a draft pick anyway, if they were a PO team...which they would be with Carter, Jefferson, Odom and Miller in their starting lineup. Plus Odom and Miller should see increased production in the eastern conference.

 

[EatMoreChicken]

I hate it when people criticize minutia when it comes to formulating large complex trades that are obviously a work in progress. Let's see them come up w/ something better. I applaud your efforts OF recognizing the needs of all the teams.

I don't think the first proposal would work b/c NJ and LAL are giving up too much. In the second deal, I think NJ would want Farmer instead of Crittenton, b/c Marcus Williams has a broken foot, and they might want someone that can start right now.

So it's basically Miller for #1 pick and rental center. I'd do this, but only if Petrie is trading Bibby and Artest as well.

 

[mac]

LA is giving up too much. Sasha has been playing very well, and I don't think Brad Miller is worth that much.

 

[LPKingsFan]

I think the problem is that if the Nets trade Kidd, they should want to go young and retool a bit around Jefferson. Adding picks and other youth makes that a bit counterproductive. If I were them, I would shop a Jefferson/Kristic package and try to compete now with Kidd and Carter and whatever frontcourt help that package could net.

 

[Packt]

I hate it when people criticize minutia when it comes to formulating large complex trades that are obviously a work in progress. Let's see them come up w/ something better. I applaud your efforts OF recognizing the needs of all the teams.

If someone doesn't want feedback on trade ideas, they simply shouldn't post them. Deals fall apart over minutia all the time, but giving up a first isn't a minor thing. You're trading away the face of the franchise, and the future. The Nets know very well the kind of player you can get late in the draft as they've been able to pick-up Marcus Williams and Sean Williams with their late picks.

You never know what a team might envision and some deals do end up being lopsided. But I don't see the Nets trading away Jason Kidd and a pick for anything other than a stud. Miller and Lamar ain't it, and Crittenton has done nothing of note.

 

[BawLa]

I hate it when people criticize minutia when it comes to formulating large complex trades that are obviously a work in progress. Let's see them come up w/ something better. I applaud your efforts OF recognizing the needs of all the teams.

I don't think the first proposal would work b/c NJ and LAL are giving up too much. In the second deal, I think NJ would want Farmer instead of Crittenton, b/c Marcus Williams has a broken foot, and they might want someone that can start right now.

So it's basically Miller for #1 pick and rental center. I'd do this, but only if Petrie is trading Bibby and Artest as well.

First off, I just want to say I appreciate your viewpoint and I appreciate you giving a little more response.

As for the trading of Bibby and Artest, I wouldn't consider Bibby as the PG of our future or the future where we win a championship, so he is definitely on the trading block in my world. As for Artest, well I'm torn between keeping him and trading him. None of that sentiment has anything to do with him potentially blowing up or melting down or exploding or whatever. I think Artest the player has great value to this current team, but similarly, he has great value in a trade. And in this rebuild of ours, Artest would probably help us more if he could return young talent, draft picks, and if he could help us get rid of our other contracts that will not be part of the next great Kings team. But Artest is still young, and particularly productive. He is having a great year this year, and statistically, it reminds me of his best year in Indy. In other words, we might not want to trade him. We might be better served keeping him and moving Salmons, who also has good value.

Anyway, I got too far off on a side-tangent. Bibby, KT, Moore, Miller, and maybe Artest are the moving parts. We are stuck with SAR because of his injury and 0 trade value. Bibby, Miller and Artest have the greatest percieved value, whether or not that perceived value reaches their potential value. I think Miller has done many things this year to deserve praise. I think he has some good value, and just might be able to net us an extra draft pick. Even if he doesn't, we could probably get a young talent and expiring contracts for him. We are likely stuck with Bibby for the rest of the year -- I just don't think we will have enough time to raise his value this year. The only way he gets moved is if a team wants to take a calculated risk on him.

 

[BawLa]

LA is giving up too much. Sasha has been playing very well, and I don't think Brad Miller is worth that much.

Brad Miller is averaging:

34.4 Min/11.1 Pts/8.2 Rebs/2.8 Ast/1.3 Blk

Not great, but not bad either. And he would probably be better in the East.

Miller + Odom would be a much more productive frontcourt for NJ. Together, Miller and Odom won't give you Kidd #'s in terms of assists, but they would take a huge chunk out of that loss. Additionally, they would give NJ much more scoring capability from positions that are relatively weak on their team. Carter, Jefferson, Odom, and Miller could be deadly in the East.


As for LA, would they really mourn the loss of Vujacic? Even if they did, we would waive him because we wouldn't want to lose any of the youth currently taking up those spots so he could re-sign with LA right after the trade. I don't know if NBA trades work in a way to favor that, but I wouldn't be surpised if it did. Plus I'm sure you could tinker the trade to include some other scrub's contract instead of Sasha's.

 

[BawLa]

I think the problem is that if the Nets trade Kidd, they should want to go young and retool a bit around Jefferson. Adding picks and other youth makes that a bit counterproductive. If I were them, I would shop a Jefferson/Kristic package and try to compete now with Kidd and Carter and whatever frontcourt help that package could net.

Jefferson is 27 and is under contract for 4 years. I would think that they would want to keep the team centered around him and Carter, and that they would be in a contending mode. Competing with Boston for the divison sucks, but if they do it right, they could easily be the #4 team in the East.

If they do want to go young, then they need to move Kidd, Carter, Jefferson, and then some. Basically a firesale. Maybe they could send Jefferson and Kidd to LA and we get in on some action. LA was interested in Artest in the past year or so, so they have made it known that they could upgrade their SF position. Hmm, let me get back to you on this...

 

[BawLa]

If someone doesn't want feedback on trade ideas, they simply shouldn't post them. Deals fall apart over minutia all the time, but giving up a first isn't a minor thing. You're trading away the face of the franchise, and the future. The Nets know very well the kind of player you can get late in the draft as they've been able to pick-up Marcus Williams and Sean Williams with their late picks.

You never know what a team might envision and some deals do end up being lopsided. But I don't see the Nets trading away Jason Kidd and a pick for anything other than a stud. Miller and Lamar ain't it, and Crittenton has done nothing of note.

Good points.

But I must disagree about the value of Kidd. He is still very productive, but he is 34, and is not worth as much as if he were still under 30. Who knows when he will start to decline, but it is likely to be soon. If NJ wants to get anything for him, they should strike soon.

Miller and Odom are nothing to gawk at. Boone? Allen? Collins? Kristic? Blech. Miller and Odom would be enormous upgrades over their current starters. Swap Farmar for Crittenton in the trade and NJ gets a young, ready PG.

You may be right, Miller and Odom may not be it. But if they aren't, I would sure like to know what NJ thinks they could get for Kidd, and then I would like to see what they could actually get for him. Kidd is not an aging superstar, he is an aged superstar and I don't think NJ could do much better than getting two upgrades @ PF and C, and a young PG.