Rudy gay, Ty Lawson trade scenario
- Thread starter Entity
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Bosnian Diehard
Starter
This is some type of trade idea you'd see on a Denver Nuggets forum. Why would this be a good trade for us???
I don't know why Denver would do it, but that 7th pick would be very interesting. With the 6th and 7th pick, we could draft WCS and Winslow. However, i hate the thought of losing Collison.
K
KingMilz
Guest
Would do it straight away we could get good value out of that 6th/7th pick (not for Noel necessarily).
If we're going to trade Gay, I'd rather trade him to New Orleans, for Holiday.
KingsFanGER
Starter
Why trade Rudy at all?
Certainly one of the better SF's in the league.
Certainly one of the better SF's in the league.
CelticsFan
Bench
If Denver doesn't have to give up the 7th pick I still don't think they make this trade
Entity
Hall of Famer
It's odd that some of the replies are that it's awful for us and some are its awful for them. Makes me think its a good idea. I like Rudy but he needs the ball to be effective he needs it alot. Chandler is great off the ball and he is an excellent wing defender. Now whatever you do with the two picks it has to be a home run. I think with the picks you definitely have a shot at home run especially with a trade
Livinthedream
All-Star
Then we have to go get a SF from somewhere. None will be better than Gay.
I'm not against trading Gay, but not when it creates a hole in our lineup.
I'm not against trading Gay, but not when it creates a hole in our lineup.
Entity
Hall of Famer
No doubt. I think chandler is the better fit with cousins and Lawson. Now if we pursue a more pass oriented pg then rudy fits. Fact is Rudy is an iso player and I think an off the ball guy fits better with cousins
Entity
Hall of Famer
Chandler is a SF. Easy top 15 in the NBA and one of the better defenders at the position. He put up 18+ points in 62 games last year so its not like he can't score. I'd say talent wise he is along the demare caroll wes Matthews line.
Livinthedream
All-Star
I consider removing a near all star, USA basketball member and replacing him with an average player creating a hole.
Entity
Hall of Famer
Toronto didnt, Memphis didnt. What do those two teams have in common that we don't? Plus we are getting Lawson and #7
Mike
Bench
With this deal our base would be:
PG: Lawson / McCallum
SG: McLemore / Stauskas
SF: Chandler / ?
PF: JT / Landry
C: Cousins / ?
I'm not convinced that trading up for the 3rd overall pick would be the right move. In all likelihood that leaves us with Russell, a combo guard that might not be the best pick for us. For me, we'd be better off keeping hold of our two picks and using them in the draft. In this scenario I'd still want us to grab WCS if he's on the board, and hopefully add Stanley Johnson or Justice Winslow.
After this we can fill out the roster by bringing back Miller and Casspi, and bring in three veterans to round the roster out. However, if there is cap space to sign a starting calibre free agent like Wesley Matthews to upgrade our SG position, then add two minimum contract veterans, then that would be a good alternative and would give us a good chance of competing and improving towards .500.
I'd be fairly happy with a roster like:
PG: Lawson / McCallum / Miller
SG: McLemore / Stauskas / ?
SF: Chandler / Johnson / Casspi
PF: WCS / Landry / ?
C: Cousins / JT / ?
Mike
Bench
If the deal was to blow it up and start again, I'd probably agree with you. But in this scenario that the OP has proposed we would be adding players to help us compete. Last season Lawson put up about sixteen points per game and almost ten assists a game. He might not be as good defensively, but as a play maker and a scorer he is better than Collison. And Chandler is no Rudy Gay, but he's a very steady player capable of averaging mid-teens points per game.
So this deal would send out two starters, and let us being in two guys that shouldn't see us become any worse, and might be a better fit for Karl's system. Plus, we'd have the #6 and #7 picks at our disposal to either add two players like WCS and Johnson/Winslow, or maybe we'd be tempted by Porzingis or Hezonja. We could trade the two picks to the 76ers if we wanted Russell or one of the bigs. Or we could trade the two picks to a team that wants to let go of a veteran player who could step in and start at SG or PF.
Overall, the proposed by the OP could still see this team push for .500. However, I'd be reluctant to trade a player like Rudy Gay who has done well here. But if letting him go made us a better all round team, then we shouldn't hesitate to let him go.
Letsgokings13
Starter
I'm good, thanks.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Trading Rudy is a bad idea that keeps on getting toyed with by people. Its not easy to find a 20ppg 2nd weapon in this league. You trade him you have just opened up a massive hole that now needs filling as well, and just adding more numbnuts kids isn't an excuse. Once we lose Cousins we can run around stacking up guys who are just learning to shave all we want. But while Cousins is still here trading away the most important win now pieces we have to acquire more kids is just a way to assure his departure.
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KingsFanGER
Starter
Is Rudy that bad off the ball? To me he looked decent playing off DMC. He was able to hit spot up 3's. And with Rudy we have always the option to throw him the ball and let him create.
I know that Chandler is a solid defender. But it's difficult for me to judge, if Rudy is a drop-off in that regard.
On paper it's a fair trade, and if anything tilted in the Kings favor. And I've felt (and said) for quite a while now that I don't think any team with Rudy Gay as its second best player will be a true contender.
But you can't make that deal. Can't.
Bringing back the starting lineup from last season (that played so well to start the year) with a full training camp under Karl and improving the bench along Boogie continuing to ascend, growth (hopefully) from Nik and Ben and anything the #6 pick is able to contribute should be enough to have this team fighting for the 8th spot if they can stay relatively healthy.
But a revamp that changes the starting PG, the starting SF and adds not one but two rookies to the bench might pay dividends long term but is going to make the team worse in the short term. And from Cousins' perspective its just more shuffling around, this time of two players he likes and respects.
At pick 6 & 7 any combination of Mudiay, Cauley-Stein, Porzingis, Winslow, Johnson & Hezonja would be available. If the Kings hit a homerun by drafting a star and a high level role player with those picks the team could be in a very good position in a couple years. But as it stands we don't have a couple years.
This season has the Kings between a rock and a hard place and I think the only real option is to stay the course and make minor tweaks hoping for a .500 or better season.
But you can't make that deal. Can't.
Bringing back the starting lineup from last season (that played so well to start the year) with a full training camp under Karl and improving the bench along Boogie continuing to ascend, growth (hopefully) from Nik and Ben and anything the #6 pick is able to contribute should be enough to have this team fighting for the 8th spot if they can stay relatively healthy.
But a revamp that changes the starting PG, the starting SF and adds not one but two rookies to the bench might pay dividends long term but is going to make the team worse in the short term. And from Cousins' perspective its just more shuffling around, this time of two players he likes and respects.
At pick 6 & 7 any combination of Mudiay, Cauley-Stein, Porzingis, Winslow, Johnson & Hezonja would be available. If the Kings hit a homerun by drafting a star and a high level role player with those picks the team could be in a very good position in a couple years. But as it stands we don't have a couple years.
This season has the Kings between a rock and a hard place and I think the only real option is to stay the course and make minor tweaks hoping for a .500 or better season.
KingsFanGER
Starter
Why?
Because when Gay faces a lot of pressure and/or is forced to create his efficiency tends to plummet. I don't see him as a guy who can be a go-to scorer in the playoffs. He's much better off if there are two other primary scorers and he's allowed to get his points in rhythm.
And because outside of scoring, Gay doesn't do enough to help his teams win. He's an above average ballhandler (though he can be loose with his dribble) and a decent passer, a decent rebounder and an often unmotivated defender who is respectable but not deadly as an outside shooter. Lots of stuff to like but nothing to hang your hat on when the going gets tough. Especially if he also struggles to score.
Now it could be the case that he's grown enough as a player and that playing off Boogie will let him be an efficient scorer but until I see that I remain skeptical of Rudy's ability to step up and be the guy when defenses start clamping down.
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KingsFanGER
Starter
Thank you.
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
I have seen exactly what you are talking about, but I have also seen where Rudy with solid teammates and coaching stays in his lane and becomes something more than himself. When looks to pass and move with out the ball he is gold. His over dribbling and one on one disappear when there are other options out there and he KNOWS the plan. Yes when left to create he can be his own worst enemy, but with in a solid structure he really seems more than solid.
That's a good point and a different way of looking at it. For me it's really about not having Gay in a a position where he has to force shots because that's when he seems to be very inefficient and not help his team. But that can be accomplished by either (a) having him as the third option where he doesn't have to do as much or (2) having a system (and Rudy buy into that system) where he IS the #2 option but takes on more of the playmaking responsibility. In fact, that's something we need to see from Rudy and Boogie - more playmaking but with fewer turnovers.
King Baller
All-Star
I like having Rudy and Darren on the Kings roster. So for those reasons I could not agree to this trade. Vlade is preaching consistency. You get that by sticking with the core group of players and only replacing them with BETTER players. No one coming from the Nuggets or the #7 pick in this trade is better (or likely to be better) than Rudy. I know Karl likes Lawson and I'm not against seeing him in a Kings uniform. I am against giving up any of the core players or the #6 pick to put him there.
I like Lawson as Sixth Man playing behind Darren, not replacing him.
I like Lawson as Sixth Man playing behind Darren, not replacing him.
Hoovtrain
All-Star
That would be a great trade for us.
