Rookie SF - decisions, decisions

twslam07

All-Star
I thought it would be fun to start a thread debating whether you would rather have Wiggins or Parker on the Kings. Obviously there are no guarantees we get either player, but considering SF has been a black hole for numerous seasons, it’s exciting to think that we finally might find our solution in next year's draft.

After watching both games last night, I would be extremely satisfied with either of them. Both would be excellent fits for our team and be the #2 option behind Cousins, but right now, I’m going to go with Wiggins.

Both of them play the game the way it should be played. They don't solely look to get theirs. They consistently find others and score within the flow of the game. I noticed Parker taking a few ill-advised shots, but he also was very good and willing to setup his teammates. As for Wiggins, I can't remember one shot he took where I said to myself "that's a bad shot" or "he forced that one." His shot selection and feel for the game were superb and I think that is what impressed me most about Wiggins.

Obviously, Wiggins’ athleticism is much better than Parker’s is, but that is not a knock on Parker. Wiggins has some serious explosiveness, and unlike our own McLemore, his ball handling ability allows him to maximize it. Parker seemed to be much more comfortable knocking down long balls, but Wiggins looks to have very good form on his jumper, and that little step back jumper he had was a thing of beauty. With his size, length, athleticism, and ball handling, working on a consistent jump shot off the dribble will make him unguardable. He really has what it takes to be a star in this league, but the fact that he likes to get others involved and he scores within the system, is one of the big reasons why I like this kid.

Like I mentioned before, Parker seems to score within the flow of the game as well. He, like Wiggins, likes to get his teammates involved. He’s not a ball stopper that’s for sure. And for those reasons, I really like him. His athleticism seemed good to me, but it was hard to tell at times. His leaping ability is very good as we saw with that alley-oop one-handed dunk and countless of blocks or block attempts. He seems more quick than he is fast. The one thing that worries me about him is can he be a SF? I think he can, but there is still a question mark. I don’t want to draft him and then find out he is like Beasley or D. Williams who can’t find their position in the NBA. He was constantly guarding the opposing team’s bigs so it was difficult to see if he had the athleticism to defend SFs on the perimeter.

Again, I’m going with Wiggins here because I know he can be unguardable and defend SFs because of his athleticism. The only question mark I have with Parker is can he be an NBA SF. At this point I would say yes, but I would like to see more of him play before I make my final decision.

Who would you guys like to see in a Kings uniform?
 
at this early juncture, i'd prefer parker. i think he's definitely got the size and athleticism to play SF in the nba. he reminds me of a young paul pierce, with great physical strength, a do-it-all skillset, and a tremendous feel for the game...
 
Both. ;)

If I had to chose, I'd take Parker because of his size/strength. Wiggins will grow into his body but Parker already has and I want a sure thing. Wiggins could get bounced around a bit. I didn't se any holes in his game and was quite impressed with his defense.
 
I was trying to figure out how to do a poll between the two, but I couldn't figure it out. Any help would be much appreciated!
 
I'll be happy to be in a position to pick. With our luck, we'll instead be deciding between Glenn Robinson and Dario Saric (both decent options, actually, but not Wiggins/Parker level).
 
I'll be happy to be in a position to pick. With our luck, we'll instead be deciding between Glenn Robinson and Dario Saric (both decent options, actually, but not Wiggins/Parker level).

We probably won't because if we were in a draft position to get those guys, our pick would probably be Cleveland's since it's only top 12 protected this year.
 
We probably won't because if we were in a draft position to get those guys, our pick would probably be Cleveland's since it's only top 12 protected this year.

I know that, I was mostly going for the SF parallel, and the point stands. DX has Robinson currently at #10 anyway.
 
From what I saw last night I would select Parker. He can do it all and he looks comfortable doing it, as if that's the kind of player he is.
 
After watching the game, I'd take Parker. Below is my analysis of the two players from just the 1st game only.

Duke vs. Kansas

Jabari Parker
Is it too early to say that I want this guy?
I found it odd that he played Center for most of the game and I would love to see him play SF and be guarded by SF for a game. Right now he's always going to be too quick for most Centers/PFs to guard which will allow him to move with or with-out the ball to get good shot attempts. I think if he was defended for an entire game by a SF it would be easier to see how well he'd fair in a contemporary NBA line-up.

But my goodness, he can do everything, and he did in that game. He looked athletic going for rebounds, blocking shots, running the floor, and driving into the lane. And of course he's showing that he can shoot the ball in every basketball situation there is.
You know what impressed me the most?
He doesn't look at all like a freshman. He looks and plays like a senior out there. Really composed and seems to be the leader on his team.

I know that Wiggins ended up with good numbers by the end of the game, but Parker showed me a whole lot more than Wiggins in this one. And Parker looked like a Veteran out there while Wiggins looked 'young'.
Also, I know that both Wiggins and Parker are listed as being the same height but they don't look the same at all. I know that Parker has a good 20+ pounds on Wiggins, but he looks as if he's the taller player, and looks to be in a completely different weight class compared to Wiggins. I'm wondering if when they both get to the NBA if Parker will be a 3/4 and Wiggins will be a 3/2, because that is how it looked from me for the few short times they bodied each other up.
I'm sure that I'll be watching a whole lot of both of these kids, but if what we saw in this first game continues, I think that I'd take Parker over both Wiggins and Randle if the Kings had the choice between the 3.

Wiggins
Dick V said he'd give all three of the freshman phenoms A+ grades, but in my opinion Wiggins had the worst of the three, and I don't know if I'd give Wiggins more than a B or B+, especially due to the hype coming in.

And it had nothing to do with the numbers, but rather with the impact. Randle carried his team in the 2nd half, very reminicent of what Cousins has been having to do. Parker was just a pro out there for Duke.

But Wiggins didn't seem to have the same sort of impact in the game that either Parker or Randle had. I liked his step-back jumper that went in as well as his quick leaping ability. He runs the floor well and can finish, but I'm going to have to watch a lot more of Wiggins before I get to the point where I think that he's going to be dominating the NBA game in the same manner that LeBron James is.

On the other hand he did end up with 22 points and 10 rebounds, so if he can do that in what I would call a 'quiet' game, then I want to see what he looks like if he's dominating it.
 
For what it's worth, long-term I think Wiggins is probably going to be the best defender of the three (I'm lumping in Randle only because he's also in competition for the #1 pick). He's got the right combination of length and athleticism to just smother people on the wing. But right now he's clearly not the NBA-ready product that both Parker and Randle already are. I put Randle a step below Parker because his power game is going to have to adjust a bit to the size and quickness of NBA frontcourts, but honestly the way both of these guys are dominating in their first college games it's tough not to see NBA stardom in the near future for both of them. I'm withholding judgement on the SF question because Wiggins is more of a long-term potential pick who needs to grow into himself more as a player. After one season we can assess the potential/production question with a larger sample of data. Really really impressed with Parker's easy confidence though. He's one of the most complete prospects I've seen in awhile.
 
Randle: a special physical specimen (hmm... Drummond). I'm a big NCAAB guy and I can't name the last freshman with that brutal combination of strength and length. Usually one or the other. On top of it, he is a supremely confident passer. That's a very good sign. If you can't pass, you can't be a superstar. Late in the game, they triple teamed (not double but triple!) him repeatedly. On one play, he correctly read the triple team coming, created some space, calmly faked a pass, dribbled away from the triple team and drained a 12 footer. This was crunch time and down 2 I think. That was sick for a freshman big man.

Wiggins: reminds me of young Tmac. First step will carry him far in this league. Ball handling is already solid. Shot mechanics look really nice. Just can't see him bust. His game is better suited for the NBA than NCAA.

Parker: been watching him a little here and there for several years now. He has NBA genes, been honing his craft since day 1, surrounded by people who know the NBA and prevented him from developing AAU habits. He has no hole in his game, does everything, and does everything well. 3 or 4, doesn't matter to me. He dominates in so many ways. Some people say he's a shooter with range. That's selling his game way short.
 
#tankingforwiggans/parker

well obviously not, but that is the silver lining in the losses. If we establish the culture change and land a pick where we could aquire either of these two, it would be a huge move forward. Really really hoping the coming draft is good for us. Its a game changer.
 
Randle: a special physical specimen (hmm... Drummond). I'm a big NCAAB guy and I can't name the last freshman with that brutal combination of strength and length. Usually one or the other. On top of it, he is a supremely confident passer. That's a very good sign. If you can't pass, you can't be a superstar. Late in the game, they triple teamed (not double but triple!) him repeatedly. On one play, he correctly read the triple team coming, created some space, calmly faked a pass, dribbled away from the triple team and drained a 12 footer. This was crunch time and down 2 I think. That was sick for a freshman big man.

Wiggins: reminds me of young Tmac. First step will carry him far in this league. Ball handling is already solid. Shot mechanics look really nice. Just can't see him bust. His game is better suited for the NBA than NCAA.

Parker: been watching him a little here and there for several years now. He has NBA genes, been honing his craft since day 1, surrounded by people who know the NBA and prevented him from developing AAU habits. He has no hole in his game, does everything, and does everything well. 3 or 4, doesn't matter to me. He dominates in so many ways. Some people say he's a shooter with range. That's selling his game way short.

They'd all be instant starters on our team, that's for sure. You make room for them. Randle is a beast.

This isn't a mclemore situation where we all think he WILL be good. These guys are good. Now. Nba ready starters on day 1 most likely. Mclemore would be fantastic 2 or 3 option. I'm not sure he's a dominant alpha #1 guy, because of his poor handles.
 
I found these 3 excerpts cruising through the hoopshype rumors section. I thought they would be worthy of posting here. It kind of resonates with what I was getting at... Parker might be more NBA ready but Wiggins has more potential, there are still questions on how Parker will translate, etc.

"I think Wiggins can be a player that plays a lot like Paul George does," one veteran NBA executive told ESPN.com. "He's so smooth that at times it almost looks like he's coasting. But when you watch closer, you just see the game comes so easy to him. With his length and explosiveness, he's going to be able to do whatever he wants once he gets it. And from everything we can gather in looking into his background, he's going to get it. I'm not sure how we could pass on him if we had the No. 1 pick. The other guys might be more ready right now, but in three years, I think he's the best player in this class."

Most talent evaluators describe Wiggins as one of the most athletic players they’ve ever seen, which separates him from the rest of the pack. The belief is that Wiggins can improve his jump shot and fundamentals as he continues to develop, but that you can’t teach once-in-a-generation athleticism like Wiggins’ possesses. He’s incredibly explosive and quick, which is why he has so much success when he gets out in transition. One scout pointed out that it would be very difficult for a team to pass on Wiggins at No. 1 overall given that he can dominate a game on both ends of the floor (he’s a terrific defender) and has more upside than just about any prospect since Kevin Durant entered the league back in 2007.

After Wiggins, many scouts have Randle ranked as the next best prospect. This may come as a surprise to some since Parker had become somewhat of a household name in his own right after an impressive high school career, but most talent evaluators love Randle and worry about how Parker will transition to the NBA. The general consensus among scouts is that Randle will have a long, successful NBA career as an elite forward. He has been very consistent at the collegiate level thus far. Through three NCAA games, Randle has contributed 23 points and 15 rebounds in 26 minutes against UNC-Asheville, 22 points and 14 rebounds in 29 minutes against Northern Kentucky and 27 points and 13 rebounds in 35 minutes against Michigan State.
 
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I feel the opposite. Athletes don't necessarily translate to the NBA these days. The league is going the advanced statistics route. Better spacing, more versatility, ball movement, efficient shooting. A lot less ISO and hero ball than we saw in the 2000s.

Parker's game translates to any level. He's so damn skilled.

Not trying to downplay Wiggins. I like him a lot too. It's going to be tough picking between the 2. Make it 3.
 
I feel the opposite. Athletes don't necessarily translate to the NBA these days. The league is going the advanced statistics route. Better spacing, more versatility, ball movement, efficient shooting. A lot less ISO and hero ball than we saw in the 2000s.

Parker's game translates to any level. He's so damn skilled.

Not trying to downplay Wiggins. I like him a lot too. It's going to be tough picking between the 2. Make it 3.

The only thing that worries me about Parker is if he is able to guard NBA SFs or if he will fall into that tweener category. I haven't seen enough of Parker to say he can or cannot, but it's certainly a valid question to raise at this point in time. Duke isn't doing us any favors either by playing him as a big which gives us less opportunity to see his defense on the perimeter.
 
He is a solid defender. Understands positional defense, boxes out well, rebounds very well for his size, reads the passing lane like a point guard (lots of steals). He sees plays as they develop.

He's a solid athlete with excellent fundamentals on both ends. No worries.
 
He is a solid defender. Understands positional defense, boxes out well, rebounds very well for his size, reads the passing lane like a point guard (lots of steals). He sees plays as they develop.

He's a solid athlete with excellent fundamentals on both ends. No worries.

Everything you just described about his defense had nothing to do with staying in front of his man which is what I'm trying to decide if he can or cannot do against NBA SFs. I've seen him do everything else you described, but a big proponent of defense is being able to stay in front of your man. Again, I'm not saying he can't do it. He just hasn't had many opportunities to prove he can do it. I need to watch him more before I make up my mind.
 
Have we seen anything from Parker to suggest he's a poor on-ball defender?

Over the years there's been some talk of Parker favoring offense over defense, but it's not like he's shown flashes of David Lee on defense.

I wouldn't worry about it unless it becomes a glaring issue.
 
Have we seen anything from Parker to suggest he's a poor on-ball defender?

Over the years there's been some talk of Parker favoring offense over defense, but it's not like he's shown flashes of David Lee on defense.

I wouldn't worry about it unless it becomes a glaring issue.

Once again, I'm not saying he is a poor on-ball defender. I'm saying he doesn't defend on the perimeter for Duke because they have him matched up inside thus not giving us much opportunity to see how he fares against guarding quicker SFs. If I had to give his on-ball defense out on the perimeter a grade it would be an incomplete because I haven't seen him enough defending out there. Therefore, it's difficult for me to say he can guard NBA SFs with certainty.
 
Once again, I'm not saying he is a poor on-ball defender. I'm saying he doesn't defend on the perimeter for Duke because they have him matched up inside thus not giving us much opportunity to see how he fares against guarding quicker SFs. If I had to give his on-ball defense out on the perimeter a grade it would be an incomplete because I haven't seen him enough defending out there. Therefore, it's difficult for me to say he can guard NBA SFs with certainty.

indeed, but one can surmise quite a lot from watching jabari parker play, no? he's not the superior athlete that wiggins is, but parker's certainly an above-average athlete. and, at 6'8", 235 lbs, he more than qualifies as a full-sized SF. for reference's sake, paul pierce is 6'7", 235 lbs, and not at all a bad comparison in terms of style of play. like pierce, parker is strong and skilled at damn near every facet of the game, and parker also appears to come equipped with both a high basketball IQ and a tireless motor. though duke hasn't yet matched him up against other SF's, there is little to suggest that he couldn't effectively man up against nba SF's. what would stop him? he's a smart kid. he possesses great strength at his position. he's got adequate footspeed. he's driven. would wiggins blow by him from time to time at the nba level? probably, but i like parker's chances of guarding just about every current nba SF not named lebron james or kevin durant...
 
indeed, but one can surmise quite a lot from watching jabari parker play, no? he's not the superior athlete that wiggins is, but parker's certainly an above-average athlete. and, at 6'8", 235 lbs, he more than qualifies as a full-sized SF. for reference's sake, paul pierce is 6'7", 235 lbs, and not at all a bad comparison in terms of style of play. like pierce, parker is strong and skilled at damn near every facet of the game, and parker also appears to come equipped with both a high basketball IQ and a tireless motor. though duke hasn't yet matched him up against other SF's, there is little to suggest that he couldn't effectively man up against nba SF's. what would stop him? he's a smart kid. he possesses great strength at his position. he's got adequate footspeed. he's driven. would wiggins blow by him from time to time at the nba level? probably, but i like parker's chances of guarding just about every current nba SF not named lebron james or kevin durant...

These are all valid points, but even the most athletic players sometimes have trouble staying in front of their man. Let's take our own little Isaiah Thomas for instance. The kid has got great quickness, but he struggles staying in front of his man. Now having said that, I think Parker's IQ and general basketball knowledge might allow him to get the most out of his athleticism on the defensive end, but we'll never know for sure until we have a decent sample size of him defending on the perimeter. Again, I'm not saying that he can't defend on the perimeter or that he doesn't have the tools to be adequate staying in front of his man. I'm simply pointing out that we don't have much evidence to go off of at this point in time.
 
These are all valid points, but even the most athletic players sometimes have trouble staying in front of their man. Let's take our own little Isaiah Thomas for instance. The kid has got great quickness, but he struggles staying in front of his man. Now having said that, I think Parker's IQ and general basketball knowledge might allow him to get the most out of his athleticism on the defensive end, but we'll never know for sure until we have a decent sample size of him defending on the perimeter. Again, I'm not saying that he can't defend on the perimeter or that he doesn't have the tools to be adequate staying in front of his man. I'm simply pointing out that we don't have much evidence to go off of at this point in time.

Would you decline to chose him because you don't know if he can defend SFs?
 
Would you decline to chose him because you don't know if he can defend SFs?

Don't be silly. Of course not, but that is not the topic at hand. The topic is Wiggins vs. Parker. I know Wiggins has the ability to guard SFs and quite well I might add. Parker is still a question mark in my eyes. Again, I haven't made up my mind on whether he can defend the 3 or not. I'm simply pointing out that we don't have much to go off.
 
Don't be silly. Of course not, but that is not the topic at hand. The topic is Wiggins vs. Parker. I know Wiggins has the ability to guard SFs and quite well I might add. Parker is still a question mark in my eyes. Again, I haven't made up my mind on whether he can defend the 3 or not. I'm simply pointing out that we don't have much to go off.

Sorry for not following the conversation the way you wished.





Marcus Smart has scored 24 pts in the first half with a whole bunch of minutes left. Off topic. I know. It's just impressive.
 
Sorry for not following the conversation the way you wished.





Marcus Smart has scored 24 pts in the first half with a whole bunch of minutes left. Off topic. I know. It's just impressive.

Feel free to start a thread that asks Kings fans if they would draft or pass on Parker since that topic seems to interest you so much :p
 
Marcus Smart will flourish in the NBA. His shot mechanic don't look bad. He is just a basketball player. Russell Westbrook couldn't shoot either, and still is wildly inconsistent now, but that hasn't stopped him from being a top 5 player in the NBA. I don't think Smart will ever be as good as Westbrook overall, but I think very highly of Smart. Top 10 NBA PG in the very near future IMO.

Smart isn't like Kendall Marshall. He has wayyyyyyyyy more tools in his game than Marshall could dream of. Sometimes watching Smart play reminds me of a young Jason Kidd, who played at local Berkeley (I went to Berkeley). Even when he doesn't score well, he usually looks like the best basketball player on the floor.
 
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