Ricky "The Bust" Rubio

So basically, we can't make a Rubio thread in the general NBA section without it being assumed that it's about making a Rubio vs. Evans argument?
 
Vlade4GM said:
So since he decided not to pay millions of his own money to play in the NBA that means he may not ever want to come to the NBA? That doesn't make much sense to me. At the end of his current contract, the decision to go to the NBA is far different decision than it was this past offseason. Also, there is a lot more money to be had in the NBA than Europe, especially with his rookie scale.

People seem to have this stereotype about Ricky that since he stayed in Europe means he's like some Fran Vasquez fraidy cat or something. The whole draft/buyout issue was largely mishandled by his agent and parents, I believe that Ricky was getting pushed into decisions by other people. From everything I've seen and read of Ricky, he wants pressure and hype, he wants to play on the big stage and play against the top players. He didn't want it enough to pay a ton of his money in order to do it, but then again he was 18 and had his parents and his agents telling him what to do.

Ricky really isn't going to be able to unleash his game in Europe. People think his game is suited more for Europe when it's really not, they play half court, slow it down, motion offenses. They're not centered around a primary ball handler like many NBA offenses are. In the NBA, the courts are bigger and so are the lanes to the basket. You better believe that's going to entice Ricky.
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I think you're forgetting about Dejan Bodiroga. That's the player I think of when I think of someone who was drafted by the NBA but chose never to leave Europe.

Bottom line for me and I think a lot of other NBA fans is that right now he's a non-issue. I don't agree with calling him a "bust" since he has yet to step foot on the NBA scene...

If and when he gets here, then I think we can start to debate his impact on the NBA and/or vice versa.

:)
 
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Vlade4GM said:
So basically, we can't make a Rubio thread in the general NBA section without it being assumed that it's about making a Rubio vs. Evans argument?
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The equine has passed on. You can quit flagellating it now.

Topic at hand is whether or not Rubio is a "bust" ...
 
Vlade4GM said:
So since he decided not to pay millions of his own money to play in the NBA that means he may not ever want to come to the NBA? That doesn't make much sense to me. At the end of his current contract, the decision to go to the NBA is far different decision than it was this past offseason. Also, there is a lot more money to be had in the NBA than Europe, especially with his rookie scale.


.
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I don't think that I said Rubio won't be ever be coming to the NBA right? Just that I won't be surprised at all if he doesn't ever come. You can defend him all you want. The fact is that Minnesota's GM went over there to persuade him to come over with a package that include endorsements that would have made up for the "millions of his own money to play in the NBA" He did some Gilllete commercials this year too. NY Knicks also had interest in him, so he could have had the big market team he wanted. With regards to Rubio being the type of player who would opt to go for the challenge of the hype/pressure of the NBA, is that why he decided to only "workout" for one team and even then only workout against the proverbial "chair" like top lottery pick/bust Yi JianLin from Milwaukee? that's the fault of his agent and family too right? I would love to see Ricky come over to the NBA, but from what I've seen from him I'm just not confident it will happen.
 
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ElRey said:
It's too premature to make any judgements about Rubio since he hasn't played in the NBA, nor might he EVER play in the NBA at all. Why come to the NBA with all the pressure of being a top lottery pick trying to save a franchise instead of staying in Europe to make pretty passes, and make more money doing so without all the pressure/hype. He's already made the decision for Europe once, don't be surprised if he does it again. If he decides to stay in Europe again in 2 years, THEN you can officially call him Ricky "The Bust" Rubio.
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While NBA isn't as much sports as money factory - it is still the best basketball league and no other league comes close. If Rubio wants to be regarded "great" he either has to play and leave a mark here or have a career like Bodiroga which is tall order.
 
VF21 said:
I think you're forgetting about Dejan Bodiroga. That's the player I think of when I think of someone who was drafted by the NBA but chose never to leave Europe.
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tell me about it

it sucked for us that he didn't want to come over

he missed the opportunity to show his greatness and NBA and the Kings missed out on a great player
 
ElRey said:
I don't think that I said Rubio won't be ever be coming to the NBA right? Just that I won't be surprised at all if he doesn't ever come. You can defend him all you want. The fact is that Minnesota's GM went over there to persuade him to come over with a package that include endorsements that would have made up for the "millions of his own money to play in the NBA" He did some Gilllete commercials this year too. NY Knicks also had interest in him, so he could have had the big market team he wanted. With regards to Rubio being the type of player who would opt to go for the challenge of the hype/pressure of the NBA, is that why he decided to only "workout" for one team and even then only workout against the proverbial "chair" like top lottery pick/bust Yi JianLin from Milwaukee? that's the fault of his agent and family too right? I would love to see Ricky come over to the NBA, but from what I've seen from him I'm just not confident it will happen.
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I didn't say you said that, but you definitely implied that it showed that he might not want to come to the NBA once his contract expires and I'm saying the two situations aren't comparable.

I think that he definitely should have taken the deal and come to the NBA, the two years of experience would have been worth far more than the money he'd lose. However, the fact is, even with the promotions and the lowered buyout that Minny negotiated it still would have cost him money and he's now making money with FCB and in 11-12 he's going to get his full rookie deal + endorsements. So when you consider that and top it off with playing for Minnesota who drafted another PG, it wasn't an obvious decision either way if you really put yourself in his shoes. Even if he is scared of the NBA or whatever, he doesn't turn down the money he's due in two years regardless.

As far as the workouts go, I think it's obvious that agents are the ones directly responsible for strategizing the pre-draft stuff. It didn't work out for Ricky, but it probably wouldn't have worked out for him anyways even if he did do the complete workouts because his game is not conducive to 1-on-1's or 3-on-3's. His game is about real 5-on-5 basketball. Of course Flynn and Evans are going to be willing to do those workouts and they're going to shine doing them because their games are geared towards 1-on-1 play. Add in that he hadn't played competitively in a month (a lot longer of a layoff than any of the other players) and it's probably not a good idea that he risks his draft stock with bad workouts.

Where his camp really failed was trying to direct his way to the Kings. Obviously Memphis, OKC, and Washington were not good destinations for him, but still trying to pin all his hopes on one team in particular was a bad bet. Memphis probably would have picked him if he didn't give them the cold shoulder early on, and he would have been in a better situation financially to come over this season.

I just think you're reading too much into these series of events and ignoring the more likely explanations why he did certain things.
 
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ElRey said:
Vlade4GM, well I hope you're right and he does indeed come over to play some day.
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I'm basically saying I don't have any reason to believe that he wouldn't. He really wouldn't have that much to lose by at least trying the NBA.
 
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Spike said:
[yt=Ricky "The Dragon"]Bmr8ZBOFKEM[/yt]

I like my Rickys to be a bit more unpredictable.
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when I was a kid that's the match that got me into wrestling!!!! Loved that fight!

I don't watch wrestling since I grew up but still.. That was an awesome fight.
 
Vlade4GM said:
I didn't say you said that, but you definitely implied that it showed that he might not want to come to the NBA once his contract expires and I'm saying the two situations aren't comparable.

I think that he definitely should have taken the deal and come to the NBA, the two years of experience would have been worth far more than the money he'd lose. However, the fact is, even with the promotions and the lowered buyout that Minny negotiated it still would have cost him money and he's now making money with FCB and in 11-12 he's going to get his full rookie deal + endorsements. So when you consider that and top it off with playing for Minnesota who drafted another PG, it wasn't an obvious decision either way if you really put yourself in his shoes. Even if he is scared of the NBA or whatever, he doesn't turn down the money he's due in two years regardless.

As far as the workouts go, I think it's obvious that agents are the ones directly responsible for strategizing the pre-draft stuff. It didn't work out for Ricky, but it probably wouldn't have worked out for him anyways even if he did do the complete workouts because his game is not conducive to 1-on-1's or 3-on-3's. His game is about real 5-on-5 basketball. Of course Flynn and Evans are going to be willing to do those workouts and they're going to shine doing them because their games are geared towards 1-on-1 play. Add in that he hadn't played competitively in a month (a lot longer of a layoff than any of the other players) and it's probably not a good idea that he risks his draft stock with bad workouts.

Where his camp really failed was trying to direct his way to the Kings. Obviously Memphis, OKC, and Washington were not good destinations for him, but still trying to pin all his hopes on one team in particular was a bad bet. Memphis probably would have picked him if he didn't give them the cold shoulder early on, and he would have been in a better situation financially to come over this season.

I just think you're reading too much into these series of events and ignoring the more likely explanations why he did certain things.
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thank you... thats exactly how i see his situation... thats what i have been trying to say the entire time but i always turned it into a argument about evans. rubio is a special player, he wants to play in the nba and like you said, why would he turn down the guaranteed money from his rookie contract? jc navaro didnt want to stay because he was a low 1st rounder. rubio was the 5th pick... thats a lot of money to turn down.
 
They showed a replay of Rubio's team on nba tv this morning. Rubio is looking really good as of late, he's starting to get more comfortable with his new team and they're designing more plays for him. His 3 pt shot has been looking much better lately, same motion but with a better follow through, they've been mostly set shots though. One of the shots was from very deep, he was 3/4 from 3. Made some great pick and roll passes and this one bounce pass between an opponents legs that I had to watch a few times to really see how the ball got from point a to point b, from the angle it wasn't clear. Made a couple passes that were a little overzealous, and got stripped doing a wrap around dribble near the halfcourt line.

He still has questions with his quickness and off the dribble game, but he's looking really good lately and his shot's improving.
 
You know, Rubio looked pretty good. It was hard to watch the game, however, simply because those flourescent green jerseys made my eyes bleed...

It's pretty clear he's always going to prefer to dish the ball rather than taking a shot himself. And he's becoming pretty good at doing it.

If he does have a downside, as you mentioned, it's that he doesn't seem to always be aware of the defender coming up from the side. All in all, though, I thought he did a nice job of leading his team to a win. (They did win, right? I turned to something else before the game way over but I cannot imagine them losing...)
 
VF21 said:
You know, Rubio looked pretty good. It was hard to watch the game, however, simply because those flourescent green jerseys made my eyes bleed...

It's pretty clear he's always going to prefer to dish the ball rather than taking a shot himself. And he's becoming pretty good at doing it.

If he does have a downside, as you mentioned, it's that he doesn't seem to always be aware of the defender coming up from the side. All in all, though, I thought he did a nice job of leading his team to a win. (They did win, right? I turned to something else before the game way over but I cannot imagine them losing...)
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Yeah, they won by a pretty good margin, at least 15 points I think, or it was by that much by the time Rubio was taken out which was like at the end of the third I think. They're a very good team, especially now that Rubio is starting to get more acclimated.

Yeah, I don't expect Rubio to become much of a scorer. On the other hand, if he develops enough of a shot to keep defenders honest, his ball handling, change of pace/direction, and elite PG height/reach can lead to scoring in the teens. He's still very young and seems dedicated to improve his game. He's got all of Nash's tools (and at a much earlier age than Nash) plus 2 inches and minus the jumper and a few tricks of the trade that come with experience.
 
I was somewhat surprised to see him hit a three. I didn't think that was part of his reportoire. It looked smooth...or did I get confused? Was it not him?
 
VF21 said:
I was somewhat surprised to see him hit a three. I didn't think that was part of his reportoire. It looked smooth...or did I get confused? Was it not him?
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Well he hit 3 out of 4, two were from the corner, one was a deep one from the top. They were all catch and shoots though. It's not that his shot is herky jerky or anything, it's just that it's a slow release, almost like he has to roster it back. I haven't seen much of his pull up jumper this season, but right now he pretty much just has a set shot off the dribble.

You'd love for him to develop a dependable pull up jumper like Stockton did, but Kidd was still a great playmaker even with sapped speed/quickness with just a set shot, so it can be done if you have elite playmaking ability.
 
It was the deep one from the top, I believe, because I was more than a little surprised at the distance.
 
Vlade4GM said:
Well he hit 3 out of 4, two were from the corner, one was a deep one from the top. They were all catch and shoots though. It's not that his shot is herky jerky or anything, it's just that it's a slow release, almost like he has to roster it back. I haven't seen much of his pull up jumper this season, but right now he pretty much just has a set shot off the dribble.

You'd love for him to develop a dependable pull up jumper like Stockton did, but Kidd was still a great playmaker even with sapped speed/quickness with just a set shot, so it can be done if you have elite playmaking ability.
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My concern with Rubio has always been his lack of any ability to really accomplish much for himself on the offensive end. Once he develops a nice pull-up jumper or has a more consistent stroke, I think he'll be a solid player that defenders won't be able to slump off of because all he can do is run towards the basket and toss up an ugly looking lay-up (see: Rodriguez, Sergio).
 
VF21 said:
You know, Rubio looked pretty good. It was hard to watch the game, however, simply because those flourescent green jerseys made my eyes bleed...

It's pretty clear he's always going to prefer to dish the ball rather than taking a shot himself. And he's becoming pretty good at doing it.

If he does have a downside, as you mentioned, it's that he doesn't seem to always be aware of the defender coming up from the side. All in all, though, I thought he did a nice job of leading his team to a win. (They did win, right? I turned to something else before the game way over but I cannot imagine them losing...)
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Those Jerseys!!!!!!! lol ya he has been looking REALLY nice as of late..

The thing is that he looks great but I don't think he would be a fit with Evans.. I think Evans is a better all around player but Rubio is going to make a good NBA PG if/when he comes over.
 
Tetsujin said:
My concern with Rubio has always been his lack of any ability to really accomplish much for himself on the offensive end. Once he develops a nice pull-up jumper or has a more consistent stroke, I think he'll be a solid player that defenders won't be able to slump off of because all he can do is run towards the basket and toss up an ugly looking lay-up (see: Rodriguez, Sergio).
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Wait a minute... He's barely old enough to buy smokes, and you speak about him like he's a vet that's done nothing.
 
Gary said:
Wait a minute... He's barely old enough to buy smokes, and you speak about him like he's a vet that's done nothing.
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Just like how we criticize 'Reke for passing up the past to drive and taking too long to initiate the offense. I'll critique anybody anywhere. Doesn't matter if it's a bedridden grandma or a baby in the cradle.
 
Gary said:
Wait a minute... He's barely old enough to buy smokes, and you speak about him like he's a vet that's done nothing.
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He might be young but he's been playing pro ball long enough to have established some kind of pattern.
 
Tetsujin said:
Just like how we criticize 'Reke for passing up the past to drive and taking too long to initiate the offense. I'll critique anybody anywhere. Doesn't matter if it's a bedridden grandma or a baby in the cradle.
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Oh no no no.. Was kinda referring to how it was worded.. More of an attempt at humor I guess went over everyone's heads :) Should have put a smiley at the end! :D
 
Gary said:
Oh no no no.. Was kinda referring to how it was worded.. More of an attempt at humor I guess went over everyone's heads :) Should have put a smiley at the end! :D
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Yes that always helps:D It's just that some people get so excited by Rubio that felt that I should make it clear that no one is off limits from my biting criticism.
 
Tetsujin said:
Yes that always helps:D It's just that some people get so excited by Rubio that felt that I should make it clear that no one is off limits from my biting criticism.
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not using smilies will get you in trouble around here.... :D

you can say what ever you want if you put a ;) at the end. ;)
 
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