How is it pathetic? Everyone has been lobbying for their candidate, just because they tell people they can still change their vote that makes them pathetic? I am really getting annoyed that everyone thinks lobbying for your candidate is pathetic, it is not. I would be upset if the kings were not, and if I was a warriors fan I would expect the same.
Reke rumored to win ROY
- Thread starter annihilator_33
- Start date
I didn't really know where to put this, because we have several threads talking about Tyreke as ROY, but I took a look at 82games.com and noticed some interesting things comparing Tyreke's and Curry's stats.
Edit: Mods, please feel free to move this if you see fit.
WARNING: Lots of numbers ahead, including references to PER, rebounding percentages, and even per 48 minute stats. Abandon all hope ye who read past here.
Scoring: Not a lot to say on this first category. Tyreke is better at creating his own shot, by a huge margin. 24% of his shots are assisted, while a full 40% of Curry's are. I don't that this is a huge surprise to anyone. I think it's also important to note that Curry is overwhelmingly a jump shooter. 80% of Stephen's shots are jump shots, while Tyreke is more balanced. 47% of Tyreke's shots are jumpers and 51% are at the rim.
Passing:
I've seen some Warrior fans talk about Curry being the much better passer, or the much better 'point guard' as a whole. The stats don't bear this out. I'll say this, I'm not sure how 82games comes up with their 'passing rating' (and I'm sure it's listed on their site somewhere, I just didn't go look), but they do rate Curry an 8.9 (.1 higher than Tyreke's 8.8).
Looking at Turnovers, Tyreke's Assist/TO ratio was 1.91. Curry's was 1.93, so slightly better, but when the type of TO is figured in, Tyreke's Assist/Bad Pass Turnover ratio is 5.6, while Curry's is significantly worse at 3.5. Tyreke is statistically at his best at the PG position, posting a PER of 22.6 (.4 less than Deron Williams, at the same position). Curry, on the other hand, is statistically best at SG, posting a PER of 19.4, and only 17.6 at the point.
Defense:
I'm not sure that this is really up for debate, GS basically plays gimmick defense, just like their offense, but I've seen some people trot out the fact that Curry is 4th in the league in steals as somehow proving he's the better defender (never mind the fact that his teammate, Monta Ellis was 2nd in the league in the same stat). Looking at the stats, both seem more well suited defending shooting guards. Against Curry, points average a per of 20.7, and shooting guards average 15.9. Against Tyreke, points average 17.7, and 2 guards average 16.1. The problem with the above stats, though, is that it only takes in to account which position the opposing player is playing, and not necessarily who's guarding who. If anybody has links to better defensive stats, I'd be very interesting to look into this in more detail.
The 'Clutch':
It gets bad for Curry here. The Kings as a whole performed better than the GS in the clutch, and Tyreke is especially better than Curry.
Per 48 clutch minutes (last 5 minutes of the 4th or overtime, neither team ahead by more than 5 points), Tyreke scores 36 points (his overall average is 26pts/48minutes) while Curry scores 26 points (his overall average is 23.2pts/48minutes). Also, only 15% of Tyreke's clutch buckets were assisted, while 29% of Curry's were (though, you should take into account the fact that Curry is primarily a jump shooter, that however has its own implications with regards to winning). Again, for reference, Williams averages 23.1 points in the clutch.
With regards to passing, we have a very small sample size for both players, which should be a factor, but Curry has a total of 6 assists in the clutch all season (despite playing in 32 clutch situations), while Tyreke has 18 (playing in 38 clutch situations). In said situations, Evan's had 3 bad pass turnovers (pretty low, actually, Deron had 7 in 26 clutch situations), Curry also had 3. This gives a clutch assist/bad pass ratio of 6.0(!) for Tyreke and 2.0 for Curry (Deron was 3.4). Suffice it to say that, at the end of games, Tyreke is much better with the ball in his hands than Curry...and as ridiculous as it sounds, maybe even Deron Williams.
Both are solid rebounders in the clutch. Curry has offensive rebound percentage (amount of offensive rebounds he snagged vs. how many were available to his team) of 1.6% (what can you say, he's a skinny 6'3"). Tyreke grabbed 5.6% for the Kings. Stephen had a 12.6% defensive rebound percentage while Tyreke had 12.4%. Pretty close overall, maybe a nod to Tyreke for the significantly better offensive rebounding (let's not talk about Deron's rebounding...Thompson for reference is a 11.7% offensive and 10.4% defensive rebounder in the clutch). As an aside, both Tyreke and Stephen are good rebounders in non-clutch situations as well. Tyreke is about twice as good as Curry grabbing offensive boards, and 2% better than him grabbing defensive boards.
Conclusions:
What does it all mean? I don't know. Maybe I'm not smart enough to draw conclusions from these numbers, but with some of the stats that the Warrior's are throwing around regarding shooting percentages and single game numbers (Curry joined a group of like 6 rookies to have posted triple doubles with 35 points or higher and is the first rookie with his particular set of shooting percentages, I believe (hooray for arbitrary benchmarks), I thought I'd take a look at the advanced stats at 82games. It's important to note that Curry did have a better overall +/- than Tyreke, but that stat is hopelessly flawed (as are some of the one's I posted above, I'm sure). I know most here are a much bigger fan of the 'eyeball test' (which player appears to be better when actually watching them play and ignoring the numbers), and I think Tyreke wins here too. How many game winners did Curry have? I honestly don't know. I Googled it, and I didn't find anything. Tyreke had 2 game winners and one game winning steal that I recall. Anyways, I know what player I'd rather have, and it's not the 6'3" skinny 2-guard, although I think he's going to be a pretty darned good player himself. My concern regarding jump shooting players is universal. How many championships teams have featured a jump-shooter as their number one option (maybe last year's Lakers with Kobe, though that team was/is stacked)? A few, I'm sure, but I can think of many, many counter-examples.
Edit: Mods, please feel free to move this if you see fit.
WARNING: Lots of numbers ahead, including references to PER, rebounding percentages, and even per 48 minute stats. Abandon all hope ye who read past here.
Scoring: Not a lot to say on this first category. Tyreke is better at creating his own shot, by a huge margin. 24% of his shots are assisted, while a full 40% of Curry's are. I don't that this is a huge surprise to anyone. I think it's also important to note that Curry is overwhelmingly a jump shooter. 80% of Stephen's shots are jump shots, while Tyreke is more balanced. 47% of Tyreke's shots are jumpers and 51% are at the rim.
Passing:
I've seen some Warrior fans talk about Curry being the much better passer, or the much better 'point guard' as a whole. The stats don't bear this out. I'll say this, I'm not sure how 82games comes up with their 'passing rating' (and I'm sure it's listed on their site somewhere, I just didn't go look), but they do rate Curry an 8.9 (.1 higher than Tyreke's 8.8).
Looking at Turnovers, Tyreke's Assist/TO ratio was 1.91. Curry's was 1.93, so slightly better, but when the type of TO is figured in, Tyreke's Assist/Bad Pass Turnover ratio is 5.6, while Curry's is significantly worse at 3.5. Tyreke is statistically at his best at the PG position, posting a PER of 22.6 (.4 less than Deron Williams, at the same position). Curry, on the other hand, is statistically best at SG, posting a PER of 19.4, and only 17.6 at the point.
Defense:
I'm not sure that this is really up for debate, GS basically plays gimmick defense, just like their offense, but I've seen some people trot out the fact that Curry is 4th in the league in steals as somehow proving he's the better defender (never mind the fact that his teammate, Monta Ellis was 2nd in the league in the same stat). Looking at the stats, both seem more well suited defending shooting guards. Against Curry, points average a per of 20.7, and shooting guards average 15.9. Against Tyreke, points average 17.7, and 2 guards average 16.1. The problem with the above stats, though, is that it only takes in to account which position the opposing player is playing, and not necessarily who's guarding who. If anybody has links to better defensive stats, I'd be very interesting to look into this in more detail.
The 'Clutch':
It gets bad for Curry here. The Kings as a whole performed better than the GS in the clutch, and Tyreke is especially better than Curry.
Per 48 clutch minutes (last 5 minutes of the 4th or overtime, neither team ahead by more than 5 points), Tyreke scores 36 points (his overall average is 26pts/48minutes) while Curry scores 26 points (his overall average is 23.2pts/48minutes). Also, only 15% of Tyreke's clutch buckets were assisted, while 29% of Curry's were (though, you should take into account the fact that Curry is primarily a jump shooter, that however has its own implications with regards to winning). Again, for reference, Williams averages 23.1 points in the clutch.
With regards to passing, we have a very small sample size for both players, which should be a factor, but Curry has a total of 6 assists in the clutch all season (despite playing in 32 clutch situations), while Tyreke has 18 (playing in 38 clutch situations). In said situations, Evan's had 3 bad pass turnovers (pretty low, actually, Deron had 7 in 26 clutch situations), Curry also had 3. This gives a clutch assist/bad pass ratio of 6.0(!) for Tyreke and 2.0 for Curry (Deron was 3.4). Suffice it to say that, at the end of games, Tyreke is much better with the ball in his hands than Curry...and as ridiculous as it sounds, maybe even Deron Williams.
Both are solid rebounders in the clutch. Curry has offensive rebound percentage (amount of offensive rebounds he snagged vs. how many were available to his team) of 1.6% (what can you say, he's a skinny 6'3"). Tyreke grabbed 5.6% for the Kings. Stephen had a 12.6% defensive rebound percentage while Tyreke had 12.4%. Pretty close overall, maybe a nod to Tyreke for the significantly better offensive rebounding (let's not talk about Deron's rebounding...Thompson for reference is a 11.7% offensive and 10.4% defensive rebounder in the clutch). As an aside, both Tyreke and Stephen are good rebounders in non-clutch situations as well. Tyreke is about twice as good as Curry grabbing offensive boards, and 2% better than him grabbing defensive boards.
Conclusions:
What does it all mean? I don't know. Maybe I'm not smart enough to draw conclusions from these numbers, but with some of the stats that the Warrior's are throwing around regarding shooting percentages and single game numbers (Curry joined a group of like 6 rookies to have posted triple doubles with 35 points or higher and is the first rookie with his particular set of shooting percentages, I believe (hooray for arbitrary benchmarks), I thought I'd take a look at the advanced stats at 82games. It's important to note that Curry did have a better overall +/- than Tyreke, but that stat is hopelessly flawed (as are some of the one's I posted above, I'm sure). I know most here are a much bigger fan of the 'eyeball test' (which player appears to be better when actually watching them play and ignoring the numbers), and I think Tyreke wins here too. How many game winners did Curry have? I honestly don't know. I Googled it, and I didn't find anything. Tyreke had 2 game winners and one game winning steal that I recall. Anyways, I know what player I'd rather have, and it's not the 6'3" skinny 2-guard, although I think he's going to be a pretty darned good player himself. My concern regarding jump shooting players is universal. How many championships teams have featured a jump-shooter as their number one option (maybe last year's Lakers with Kobe, though that team was/is stacked)? A few, I'm sure, but I can think of many, many counter-examples.
Why stop there?
If you only count stats for the third of February, Tyreke had 32 points, 7 rebounds, 8 assists, 2 steals and 1 block, went 11-18 from the floor, 3 of 5 from three, and 7 of 9 from the line.
On the same day, Stephen Curry scored 6 points on 1-6 shooting (4-4 line, 0-2 from three) and had 3 assists with no rebounds, steals, or blocks.
Tyreke was clearly Rookie of the Third of February. Give the man some hardware.
If you only count stats for the third of February, Tyreke had 32 points, 7 rebounds, 8 assists, 2 steals and 1 block, went 11-18 from the floor, 3 of 5 from three, and 7 of 9 from the line.
On the same day, Stephen Curry scored 6 points on 1-6 shooting (4-4 line, 0-2 from three) and had 3 assists with no rebounds, steals, or blocks.
Tyreke was clearly Rookie of the Third of February. Give the man some hardware.
Thank you for taking the time to put this together. There just aren't any stats to show that Evans was usually guarded by the other team's best defender and was often double- and triple-teamed. I think Curry will be a very good player, but I know who I'd rather have from last year's draft, too. His nickname is "ROY." 
So...I totally got plagiarized on hoopshype.com for the above post. I really don't care much, I mean for me, it's about presenting the information, not about any ego trip, but I had quite the laugh over it. The poster, Magruder, even added this caveot to the beginning of his (my) post:
Look dude, if you're reading this, I don't care that you copied my post verbatim. Just don't take credit for it. Even if you said "from an anonymous Kings Fan" I'd totally be okay with it. I'd actually take it as praise.
I AM NOT Magruder at Hoopshype.com. I don't even have an account there (or on any basketball forum not named Kingsfans.com). Link to the page for anybody who might care: http://forums.hoopshype.com/forums/index.php?topic=55271.30
Look dude, if you're reading this, I don't care that you copied my post verbatim. Just don't take credit for it. Even if you said "from an anonymous Kings Fan" I'd totally be okay with it. I'd actually take it as praise.
I AM NOT Magruder at Hoopshype.com. I don't even have an account there (or on any basketball forum not named Kingsfans.com). Link to the page for anybody who might care: http://forums.hoopshype.com/forums/index.php?topic=55271.30
Through a simple search, Magruder can be found on Kingsfans.com, although it says he hasn't been on since 2006: http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/member.php?u=2223
