Redd, Redd, I want Redd

thedofd

Bench
http://proxy.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&id=1945932

OK, so we have mixed opinions of Bob Ford's columns on ESPN Insider. But here's part of a larger article (link above) about potential trades that I found interesting and made me start thinking re: possibilities for the Kings:

Luke Jackson

Jackson was one of the highest risers in the draft last summer. After scouts routinely predicted most of the year that Jackson would be a bubble first-round pick, he rocketed up the charts after a series of strong workouts and landed in Cleveland with the 10th pick. The book on Jackson said he was one of the few players in the draft that would be able to come in and immediately provide a team with solid outside shooting and a mature offensive game.

The Cavs need a solid outside shooter and another perimeter scoring option, but so far Jackson hasn't seen the light of day. With the Cavs taking their pursuit of the playoffs very seriously this year, it looks like Jackson might not get off the bench. While the team is still high on him, if he could be used to draw in a veteran shooter like
Michael Redd <http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3442>, the team would jump at a deal.

Redd has been telling people close to him he wants to sign with the Cavs this summer when he hits restricted free agency. The Cavs will have the cash to do it, and the Bucks will have few resources to stop him.
If the Cavs offered Jackson and Anderson Varejao <http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3847>, another rookie the Bucks are high on, would the Bucks bite? It might be their only legit shot to get something of value for Redd before he leaves.



Now, the author can't say with any certainty that the Bucks would accept the two rookies from Cleveland for Redd. But if that's even in the ballpark, it seems to me that the Kings could make a stronger offer. For example, realgm.com says that Bobby Jackson and Kevin Martin (and the requisite draft picks) would work from a cap standpoint for Redd. I'd go even further and be willing to add in any other bench players the Bucks might want. Of course, you'd have to get a wink and a nod from Redd's agent that he'd be willing to re-sign with the Kings, but that's doable even if unethical. The Bucks would probably prefer to trade Redd to the West Coast than to a team in their own division.

I know that there's a lot of sentiment out there to keep version 4.0 of the Kings together for one last run before trying to retool, and generally speaking, I'm not an advocate of breaking up the core. But if there's a chance to land an all-star caliber shooting guard without giving up a starter? I say you have to go for it. I'd miss Bobby, certainly, but with Doug you'd still have a great 3-guard rotation -- one with a future (Redd is only 25, one year younger than Bibby and six younger than Jackson). If you had to give up, say, Darius Songaila as part of the deal, you go out and get a Gary Trent or someone to fill the hole.

 
I just don't know if that would work. I would assume that in this scenario, Christie would be relegated to the 6th man role. So, what we've done is add another spot up shooter to an team that already has Peja and Bibby. You've now taken your best defender and put him on the bench. And when Doug does come in, although he will bring the energy and hussle that you need out of a 6th man, he doesn't really bring that offensive explosion off the bench that you need.

The other option would be to bring in Redd off the bench. I don't think that will ever happen, since I doubt he'd like that role. And now, you've replaced perhaps the best 6th man in the league.

Now we consider the contract ... there is NO WAY the Kings can afford Redd next year. I'd rather stick with Bobby this year (and next ... it's the Kings option).
 
keflanag said:
I just don't know if that would work. I would assume that in this scenario, Christie would be relegated to the 6th man role. So, what we've done is add another spot up shooter to an team that already has Peja and Bibby.
What percentage of the time does BJax spot up as opposed to drive? Redd's a great outside shooter, for sure, but he also does some creative things. I've seen him throw down quite a few.

keflanag said:
You've now taken your best defender and put him on the bench.
Doug is an outstanding team defender who stands out on a team of generally poor defenders. He's no longer a stopper in the sense that he can go out and shut down a Ray Allen or Kobe. Besides, the Kings are set up as an offense-first team and a lot of time they're hindered playing, essentially, 4-on-5 on offense.

keflanag said:
And when Doug does come in, although he will bring the energy and hussle that you need out of a 6th man, he doesn't really bring that offensive explosion off the bench that you need.
Well, if you add Redd to the Kings' current lineup, you might not need an offensive explosion off the bench. Anyhow, Doug as 6th man might look a little more for his shot, if necessary. I'd think his versatility -- his ability to play both guard spots and even small forward, to some degree -- would be put to good use off the bench. Maybe he becomes a Sixth Man of the Year type utility man.

keflanag said:
The other option would be to bring in Redd off the bench. I don't think that will ever happen, since I doubt he'd like that role. And now, you've replaced perhaps the best 6th man in the league.
Don't think you'd get someone the caliber of Redd to bring him off the bench. As for B-Jax being the best 6th man in the league, well, maybe. But you have to give up some quality to get some in return. Who's to say Christie couldn't be nearly as valuable in that role? Anyhow, the age difference between B-Jax and Redd is something you simply cannot discount.

keflanag said:
Now we consider the contract ... there is NO WAY the Kings can afford Redd next year. I'd rather stick with Bobby this year (and next ... it's the Kings option).
I know the Kings are over the cap and will be for the forseeable future, and that's the most logical argument against this happening. But that's something the Maloofs would have to weigh with any decision, not just Redd. There are always going to be salary cap issues. Two years from now, the Kings are going to face a tough decision with Bobby: Whether to pay him more money for more years than he's probably going to be worth at that stage (no insult intended).
 
A lot of times DOUG is the ONLY one playing defense for an appreciable amounts of time. I'm not at all convinced sending him to the 6th man slot would be wise at this point.

In addition, I think at some point the Kings are going to have to start developing their rookies. Flash has a lot of potential, a good work ethic, etc. I don't see trading him away as necessarily the best thing to do, especially when you package him with the prime spark plug of the team...

I agree with keflanag.
 
Kingsgirl4 said:
I think at some point the Kings are going to have to start developing their rookies. Flash has a lot of potential, a good work ethic, etc. I don't see trading him away as necessarily the best thing to do, especially when you package him with the prime spark plug of the team.
I'd like to see Flash developed, too. But the fact is, it doesn't matter how much potential, etc. he has if the coach won't play him. We're talking about a late first-round draft pick. There are a lot of guys like that floating around. There aren't a lot of Michael Redd-like players available.
 
thedofd said:
Doug is ... no longer a stopper in the sense that he can go out and shut down a Ray Allen or Kobe.
True, but I sure remember him shutting down someone named Michael Redd. :-)

BTW ... nice arguments. I still don't think it's worth trading our best bench player for another starter, but it's nice to see some thought put into it.
 
Well, that would be a no brainer if you could actually pull it off. We'd probably jump right up and be favorites for the title or something close to it, we'd have solved our age issue at OG, be one of the great shooting teams ever assembled etc., and might even have some flexibiltiy regarding Peja if he decided he wanted to elave us (we'd have another deadeye perimeter player in the fold). If you can trade bobby for a young All-Star who is going to be playing 35min a game for you for the next 6-7 years, there's no hesitation there -- its a lot like the Miller move to replace the aging Vlade. Make the core younger and keep the window open for a long time.

Thing is, I don't think you could pull it off. Ignoring for a moment this is Chad Ford doing the reporting, Redd is the best thing the Bucks have going. He's nto a franchise player, but he's a legit All-Star and by far and away their best player. Its hard to imagine them giving up on him for an aging PG and a late pick like Kevin. Of course this is Petrie we are talking about, so who knows. But it would be an absolute coup.
 
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Bricklayer said:
Thing is, I don't think you could pull it off. Ignoring for a moment this is Chad Ford doing the reporting, Redd is the best thing the Bucks have going. He's nto a franchise player, but he's a legit All-Star and by far and away their best player. Its hard to imagine them giving up on him for an aging PG and a late pick like Kevin. Of course this is Petrie we are talking about, so who knows. But it would be an absolute coup.
Absolutely. I was shocked to see Redd mentioned as part of any trade, especially for Luke Jackson and Anderson Varajeo (SP?). If the Bucks are dumb enough to do that ... well, I'm sure Geoff has 'em on speed dial. Sometimes teams -- especially teams that aren't doing as well as expected -- panic and make mistakes.

The other factor is, has Redd told the Bucks that he absolutely will sign only with the Cavaliers next year? Of course, we know how that goes. People change their minds. Karl Malone said at one time that he'd only play for the Lakers this year.
 
thedofd said:
I'd like to see Flash developed, too. But the fact is, it doesn't matter how much potential, etc. he has if the coach won't play him. We're talking about a late first-round draft pick. There are a lot of guys like that floating around. There aren't a lot of Michael Redd-like players available.
we will need flash in the future right now, his young and coach wants him to have experience... mabye watching doug play to improve his defensive skills... or see how the kings offense works... and aldeman does play rookies... as seen with darius last year(though it was due to injuries... but he got the chance to prove himself and he did)... he just isnt playing martin now cuz barnes is ahead of him... im sure as the years past when christie gets injured again or he leaves the team he will get more and more playing time...
 
RaY Z said:
we will need flash in the future right now, his young and coach wants him to have experience... mabye watching doug play to improve his defensive skills... or see how the kings offense works... and aldeman does play rookies... as seen with darius last year(though it was due to injuries... but he got the chance to prove himself and he did)... he just isnt playing martin now cuz barnes is ahead of him... im sure as the years past when christie gets injured again or he leaves the team he will get more and more playing time...
Well, we will need Kevin or somebody to replace Doug soon if we do nothing, and let's hope he develops and is up to it. But of course if we had Redd, then that position would be taken care of for a long time and we wouldn't need anybody besides a 10mpg backup.
 
Kev.in said:
Can you imagine Redd and Peja playing next to eachother?

Whoa.
That was my intitial thought. Think of Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis playing with a real center, point guard and power forward.

RaY Z said:
we will need flash in the future right now, his young and coach wants him to have experience... mabye watching doug play to improve his defensive skills... or see how the kings offense works... and aldeman does play rookies... as seen with darius last year(though it was due to injuries... but he got the chance to prove himself and he did)... he just isnt playing martin now cuz barnes is ahead of him... im sure as the years past when christie gets injured again or he leaves the team he will get more and more playing time...
Well, it can go either way with Flash. He can be the next "find," the next Darius. Or he can be the next Gerald Wallace, hanging around the fringes for a couple of years waiting for an opportunity. Again, I wish him well. But I wouldn't get too emotionally attached to a late first-round pick.
 
Can you imagine practice? Peja and Redd would play games of horse from 75 feet. I would miss Bobby terribly, but looking at it from a non-emotional purely business sense (because after all the NBA is a business), I would pull the trigger immediately.

Not that the Bucks would, but thats another story.
 
Since my credibility is probably pretty well shot (I'm still licking my wounds over my proposed deal/s to obtain Paul Pierce whom the Kings and Peja destroyed 12/5!) I doubt anyone cares what I think but WTF I've never been shy about giving my opinion! Count me as on board with this trade if it could be done (which I have serious doubts about) since a bird in the hand (Redd) is worth two in the bush (Martin/Songaila). I think the only reason the Bucks would be tempted is because of Bobby's penetration ability on a club that is thought of as a outside threat but not so much inside. And with ten of their players in their last or next to last year they need to think to the immediate future so if they can get multiple NBA players for one then they may be persuaded......nah, it still sounds too one sided but would solve many of our problems.
 
piksi said:
How does one put Pedja, Mike, CW and Redd with one Ball together ?
I guess the same way one puts Amare Stoudemire, Shawn Marion, Quentin Richardson, Joe Johnson and Steve Nash together. Everyone has to give a little, the result being a heck of a lot of fun (and wins).
 
thedofd said:
I guess the same way one puts Amare Stoudemire, Shawn Marion, Quentin Richardson, Joe Johnson and Steve Nash together. Everyone has to give a little, the result being a heck of a lot of fun (and wins).


Nash is not a selfish player. Bibby is.
 
Bricklayer said:
Steve Nash:
34.3min 11.4 FGA/gm

Mike Bibby:
36.7min 12.1 FGA/gm


irrelevant

give me % of totals team shots taken, assists per game, etc.

It is enough to see 3 on 1 fast break run by Nash or Bibby

Nash is the best PG in the league at the moment. No comparison there.
 
piksi said:
irrelevant

give me % of totals team shots taken, assists per game, etc.

It is enough to see 3 on 1 fast break run by Nash or Bibby

Nash is the best PG in the league at the moment. No comparison there.
Hardly irrelevant if your concern is where will the shots come from for an extra shooter.

Nash also does not have to share PG duties with his PF. He runs the show from baseline to baseline. Joe Johsnon is the only other above average passer on that team. Amare, Marion, Richardson are pure finishers.
 
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