Darth Divac
Bench
Since there's been a lot of threads devoted to individual rebuilding ideas crowding the forum, I'm making a thread where we can all post our moves to improve the team. I'll post my own soon. Until then, here's a poll.
Rebuilding ideas
- Thread starter Darth Divac
- Start date
Might be nice to know what the heck your question is - are the folks you choose staying or going????
Dime Dropper
All-Star
This. You asked both possibilities in the OP...
Mike
Bench
I'd like us to keep hold and build around Cousins and Evans. As a base they a lot of potential, and Isiah Thomas is a useful point guard, granted he doesn't put up the assists like Rondo or have the scoring power of Rose, but he's solid enough to play a role. Thornton and Thomas are useful, but are perhaps more suited to role players than starting calibre in a team aiming to contend.
So for me the least I'd want us to do is keep hold of Cousins and Evans, outside of them I think anyone else is [potentially] expendable.
So for me the least I'd want us to do is keep hold of Cousins and Evans, outside of them I think anyone else is [potentially] expendable.
Darth Divac
Bench
You choose the guys who stay.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
only keep cousins, evans, jt and ppat. the rest can be waived or amnestied
It doesn't work that way. Cutting a player with a contract in the NBA means they still count against your cap. And only a player who was already under contract before the CBA was signed can be amnestied. This means the only player eligible to be amnestied is John Salmons. And since he is an ending contract, it's debatable whether it'd be better to amnesty him or use him (well his contract anyway) as trade bait.
The following players are under contract for next season (2013-14):
DeMarcus Cousins
Marcus Thornton
John Salmons
Isiah Thomas
Jason Thompson
Patrick Patterson
Jimmer Fredette
Chuck Hayes
Travis Outlaw
The following players are free agents:
Tyreke Evans
James Johnson
Cole Aldrich
Toney Douglas
Also worth noting that here are the players with a contract that runs through the 2014-15 season:
Marcus Thornton
Chuck Hayes
Jason Thompson
Travis Outlaw
Jimmer Fredette (if the team picks up his option)
The new front office will have some tough choices to make. Do they bring back Tyreke? More importantly, they'll have one season to decide whether to move forward with DMC or not. IT & PPat will also be free agents next year. I think Hayes & Outlaw would be tough to trade and Jason Thompson has a very reasonable contract for a dependable and versatile PF/C who can be the first big off the bench on a contending team. I think Jimmer and Thornton are the most likely trade bait along with Salmons' ending contract.
So the new front office can go pretty much any direction they want. Letting Tyreke, Johnson, Aldrich & Douglas walk and amnesty Salmons gets the team $24 million or so under the cap. $3 million or so (depending on slot) will go to their top draft pick so they could still potentially have $21 million in cap room to build around DeMarcus without Tyreke. Or in an extreme case, use that cash to start a new core and trade DeMarcus.
If they resign Tyreke to a $9-10 million a year deal they'd still have over $11 million to spend. If they don't amnesty Salmons that number drops to $4 million
LOTS of options which has the potential to make this a very interesting summer.
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Darth Divac
Bench
Personally, I'm leaning towards blowing it up and rebuilding via draft, but that's just my opinion.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
As in get rid of Cuz/Reke too? I don't know what the point of that would be given that we'd be lucky to get two talents like them in any given draft.
Darth Divac
Bench
Wiggins, Parker, Randle, Harrison, Vonleh, Smart.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
Darth Divac
Bench
Just listing guys who may* be equal talents. Who are all in the same draft.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
Yes, may or may not. But are you still advocating trading Reke and/or Cuz? If so, why?
Especially given that even WITH Cousins and Evans the Kings have been in the lottery the last few years. I expect this team to be on the upswing starting next season but they will very likely still be in the lottery. And even if you view Wiggins as a LeBron level talent (he's not, but for the sake of argument) even a completely tanked, worse-record-in-the-league season only gives you a 25% chance of getting the top pick to draft him.
Blowing up a team in the sheer hope of a great draft pick next year is a defeatist (and likely unsuccessful) strategy.
That's always got to be the mindset of a GM who doesn't have a superstar in his prime. That said:
- Tyreke is a free agent so it's simply a matter of whether the team (1) wants to keep him and (2) what they are willing to pay since I'm sure he'll receive other offers.
- DeMarcus' immaturity issues mean that from a talent standpoint the Kings would NOT get back equal value if they decided to trade him
- Isiah Thomas has a tiny contract by NBA standards and is a free agent next year. Unless part of a package deal he wouldn't return equal talent either
- Patterson is a free agent next year so again, that will limit his value on the trade market.
- By virtue of his contract, Salmons is about the only player that could return a greater talent in a trade
- Jimmer may still have some cache AND some value as a bench shooter, but still he likely wouldn't net much
I think the Kings NEED to make a trade to clear out some of the ill fitting pieces on this team, but by and large they aren't in a position to do massive retooling via trade.
The fundamental issue is whether Cousins and/or Evans can be the core of a winning team. If they can then you have a blueprint. If not then this team isn't going to be good for years regardless of what moves are made.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
If we do this, I'll be dead before a decent team arises from the ashes IF a decent team arises. There is an age perspective involved here: your age vs mine. I cannot understand for a second why we would consider letting Cousins and Tyreke go. I worry a bit that Tyreke will not pan out the way we want and I know some have already judged that he has failed but if we don't offer these two studs an adequate coach before we make a final decision, we may find out how good they are when they whip our arse on another team.
Our first move has to be to get a competent coach. Give the competent coach a chance at wringing the most he can get out of Reke and Cuz. This team hasn't seen a competent coach since Adleman and that's a long time ago. If, and I DO say if, Tyreke makes the most of his athletic abilities with the aid of a coach who knows how to make the most of Tyreke, we will have to search for only one guard instead of two as one guard position will be settled forevermore. Not all of Tyreke's "failures" have been self induced. I will never be happy with letting a one time ROY leave this team without affording him the niceties of a good coach.
You're crazy. The Charlotte Bobcat strategy of building a team by clearing house every few years for more draft picks isn't working. Why would you want to emulate it?
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Are these examples of people we can acquire in one draft that will be better than Tyreke and Cousins. Please elaborate. You can't just throw out some names and assume anyone knows what you mean.
Padrino
All-Star
blowing the whole thing up is not a viable strategy. there are no surefire superstars in this draft. and, as funkykingston pointed out above, even if the team were to finish dead last next season, it's still only a 25% chance to draft wiggins...
it is difficult to draft players of evans' and cousins' quality in back-to-back drafts, talented players with all-star potential who are already here. some of you really have no idea just how bad it can get, and for how long. i know i'm not the only one who would like to see the kings rebuilt into a winner sooner rather than later. the pathway to winning doesn't require much in the way of clever management, either. personally, i happen to think that vivek ranadive has no intention of allowing the kings to tank their first season under new ownership...
that said, i vote to retain demarcus cousins and tyreke evans as the core of the team, with isaiah thomas shifted into a 6th man role, and toney douglas as a defensive-minded reserve. though he was not in the poll, i also vote to retain patrick patterson. i wouldn't mind keeping cole aldrich, either. it's never a bad idea to have a burly big man on the deep bench, especially when he's a high character kinda guy. the rest i move for defensive players and rebounders, and i draft oladipo if i am able, in order to further bolster the defensive integrity of the kings' starting backcourt, and provide some off-ball shooting...
it is difficult to draft players of evans' and cousins' quality in back-to-back drafts, talented players with all-star potential who are already here. some of you really have no idea just how bad it can get, and for how long. i know i'm not the only one who would like to see the kings rebuilt into a winner sooner rather than later. the pathway to winning doesn't require much in the way of clever management, either. personally, i happen to think that vivek ranadive has no intention of allowing the kings to tank their first season under new ownership...
that said, i vote to retain demarcus cousins and tyreke evans as the core of the team, with isaiah thomas shifted into a 6th man role, and toney douglas as a defensive-minded reserve. though he was not in the poll, i also vote to retain patrick patterson. i wouldn't mind keeping cole aldrich, either. it's never a bad idea to have a burly big man on the deep bench, especially when he's a high character kinda guy. the rest i move for defensive players and rebounders, and i draft oladipo if i am able, in order to further bolster the defensive integrity of the kings' starting backcourt, and provide some off-ball shooting...
jalfa
Starter
you are way too overinfatuated with potential, seriously. I can understand, it's an easy enough trap to fall into, unless you have enough of a perspective. I remember vividly drooling over the 2007 draft and all the potential franchise players or all stars that were to be had. guys like Brandan Wright, Yi Jianlian, Spencer Hawes, Al Thornton, Julian Wright, etc, etc. many of them have flamed out of the league by now, some are lucky enough to have found their niche as role players. point is, it's positively impossible to tell whether or not even the most highly talented players pan out and as enjoyable as it is to dream of potential realised, a proven commodity, which Cuz and Tyreke are, to a degree at least, is so immensely more valuable. especially considering that both of them have a lot of unrealised potential to boot.
Mike
Bench
Now I can see your point about blowing up the team and rebuilding via the draft, but that doesn't come with a guarantee. In Cousins and Evans we have two pieces of the puzzle at C and SG/SF. If we draft well this year and next we could add two further pieces.
This year depending on where we draft we could get McCollum (PG/SG), Oladipo (SG), Bennett (SF/PF) or Zeller PF/C). Any of those guys could be an excellent contributor to this team.
Next year we may have another lottery pick. We could be in a position to grab a player like Randle (PF), Harrison (PG/SG), Vonleah (PF), Young (SG), etc.
So if we draft well we could grab two studs for the forwards and re-sign Evans at guard. Cousins in at center. Then either go with our current point guards or use free agency. What I'm saying here is that we'd be stupid to let two pieces go, because even if we.land two lottery picks for them, Evans and especially Cousins will be very hard to replace.
SF, SF, PF, PG/SG, SF/PF, and PG.
I guess they'd be replacements for Evans, but is there a center with Cousins' ability and upside?
We're not limited to a certain number of threads or ideas.
And I'm willing to bet this won't be the only thread with "moves to improve the team."
Nice avatar, btw.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Actually they can let Thomas walk as well if they wanted to since his contract for the coming season is a team option.
For some reason I thought they'd already exercised that option. Either way, IT will be back. We can debate how good of a player he is and can be (although I think you and I are in agreement on that point baja) but there's really no debate that he's a bargain at his current salary and can help the team. Especially since letting him walk would clear less than $900,000 in cap room.
Megalodon
Bench
Personally I wouldn't trade cousins and evans for all six of those players. Cousins is such a unique talent and can do things most players dream of doing. He is what, 22? Absolutely remarkable.
It is of my opinion anyone advocating the trade of demarcus for any single player not named lebron is a fool.
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Nikolizzle
G-League
I wholeheartedly agree.
If they trade DMC, i'm going to stop supporting this team, because it's clear there's no one with any intelligence.
I actually don't understand why people would even CONSIDER getting rid of him. Because of his attitude? Because he's aggressive? Because he's a general *******? Who cares, harden the **** up. These are grown men, not 13 year old girls.
Reke and DMC. Isaiah and Ppat as our 3rd guard and 3rd big. Douglas and Cole as the 4th guard and 4th big. Blow up everything else.
I'm really becoming obsessed with the idea of a Reke-Oladipo-IT guard trio. Can literally match-up with any guard line you can think of and can provide any sort of mismatch you can think of. Plus, I really like that all three can be interchangeable
I'm really becoming obsessed with the idea of a Reke-Oladipo-IT guard trio. Can literally match-up with any guard line you can think of and can provide any sort of mismatch you can think of. Plus, I really like that all three can be interchangeable
