Rebuild Strategy (or WE WANT LINS!)

[Kingster]

I don't think there's any doubt that as the season goes on we will see them a lot more. The big question here is how far is Joerger going to go. We saw a lot of the young guys last year post all-star break, but other teams were outright shameless in how far they went to tank, while we never really went all in. He seemed to do a 50/50 split of resting vets or not night to night, and in the games he didn't rest them he went all in with the vets as much as we're seeing now. It cost us draft status and Fox wouldn't be here right now if we hadn't gotten lucky.

The best indicator of future behavior is usually past behavior, imo, so you'll probably see more of the same. But if Hill and even Zach are traded, then Joerger's won't have the vets to choose from and his range of choice will be highly limited; the end result will probably be a lot of losing. All that said, maybe Vlade took notice last year that he was fairly lucky to get the draft position he did, and maybe he doesn't want to take that chance this year, in which case it's a Philly onslaught of losing after the New Year because Joerger gets his order to play virtually all youngins no matter what.

 

[Sac.1989]

Easiest way to rebuild is to get a star. We had one but shipped him off. I think we should explore a deal for Jabari Parker. The bucks offense is stagnant with him in and the offensive genius of Giannis really cant save them against the big boys.

Its not feasible for them to pay him down the track. We should open conversations now and see what we can do. Bucks are stacked and someone has to loose out/be moved

 

[ESP47]

Easiest way to rebuild is to get a star. We had one but shipped him off. I think we should explore a deal for Jabari Parker. The bucks offense is stagnant with him in and the offensive genius of Giannis really cant save them against the big boys.

Its not feasible for them to pay him down the track. We should open conversations now and see what we can do. Bucks are stacked and someone has to loose out/be moved

So why wouldn't our offense be stagnant with him?

 

[notoriousBEN3]

Easiest way to rebuild is to get a star. We had one but shipped him off. I think we should explore a deal for Jabari Parker. The bucks offense is stagnant with him in and the offensive genius of Giannis really cant save them against the big boys.

Its not feasible for them to pay him down the track. We should open conversations now and see what we can do. Bucks are stacked and someone has to loose out/be moved

I agree. At the very least, he's a guy you can go to when you need points, and we really need a guy like that. The list of potentially available young guys with star quality is very limited, and as much as I hate the risk of injury involved, depending on what we'd have to give up, i'd like to see us take a swing at getting Parker.

 

[SacTownKid]

The biggest issue I have with Hill isn't necessarily his production, it's his passivity. His shooting percentages are right where you want them and his 3pt. percentage is at career high levels, but he just plays so passively. With the starting unit he needs to be aggressive and attack and he's just not doing it. Does 5 minutes a game in playing time really make a guy that passive?

I can see the minutes crunch, I don't understand the sudden change. Justin was playing well and getting better and then all of a sudden he's benched and then the G-League. I thought we were giving minutes to guys who earned them and he seemed to have earned his. I'm not upset by it and I'm about to call for anyone's head, it's just a little perplexing.

Most of his years have been that. Play a role, shoot the open shot, D up. If he isn't passive then it gobbles up shots from players that really should probably be the focus rather than him. Now he's playing the role of the dreaded starting SG on the Kings. He should give his predecessors a call and see how they handled the pain. haha.

 

[King Baller]

3 Rookies have been playing well. Frank Mason III, De'Aaron Fox and Bogdan Bogdanovic have really been playing well. Willie Cauley Stein has looked good as well. The rest of the young fellas will come around.

You guys are expecting way too much too soon from all these young players who have just come together

 

[Sac.1989]

So why wouldn't our offense be stagnant with him?

Because he would be more then a complimentary piece. We are a bunch of young, high potential pieces as currently assembled with some willey vets. We need to get a star. The kid can flat out score. We need to add a Chris Webber to an already promising gang either via draft or acquisition

 

[sactowndog]

Because he would be more then a complimentary piece. We are a bunch of young, high potential pieces as currently assembled with some willey vets. We need to get a star. The kid can flat out score. We need to add a Chris Webber to an already promising gang either via draft or acquisition

We need to do it via the draft since the odds of getting one via trade is small. But that means we need to be well positioned in the draft and play our younger guys.

Currently eight teams are within two games in the win column: Dallas, Kings, Memphis, Phoenix, Lakers, Brooklyn, Charlotte and Clippers. We could easily be picking 8th - 10th and that won’t get a star. Only two things will give me hope: seeing the young guys improve and seeing our draft slot improve.

Watching ZBo play 30 minutes and score 25 points does nothing to give me hope.

 

[Gliesian]

Zbo does give the young guys hope though.

My whole problem with this rebuild is that I can’t decide whether to tank or not this season.

How many times have teams gone from 15 wins to 35 wins? I DO NOT want to be in tank mode in 2020. F that. I will be done.

The wins this year might instill confidence in the youngins that could shape the “glory years” that hopefully come back. That’s the only reason Randolph is getting the ball so much. I’m fine with this strategy, but what if Fox turns out to be mediocre? Then we’re screwed.

I guess you can put me in the “play rookies more to Tank” strategy.

 

[Kingsfan23]

I go back and forth on our youth. Today I’m positive. One of Fox/Mason should be good. Buddy/Jackson/Bogey should be competitive on the wings. I’m personally high on Skal and Giles has generated rave reviews in preseason camp. Just need a solid center prospect this draft (as my positivity can’t quite stretch to WCS, though he’s certainly shown more recently)

 

[sactowndog]

I go back and forth on our youth. Today I’m positive. One of Fox/Mason should be good. Buddy/Jackson/Bogey should be competitive on the wings. I’m personally high on Skal and Giles has generated rave reviews in preseason camp. Just need a solid center prospect this draft (as my positivity can’t quite stretch to WCS, though he’s certainly shown more recently)

I think Willie plays best with players that can cut and pass. He has shown some nice vision when paired with Bogs. It’s not a coincidence Bogs play has declined a bit with Willie out of the line-up.
Currently, I think Bogs, Mason, Buddy and Willie are our best group.

Currently Fox doesn’t fit with that group because he rarely drives and kicks and he isn’t great at a catch and shoot. I would like to see Giles with that group.

 

[ppine]

The Kings have lacked intensity from their big men. Skal is the poster boy for passive. Willie on an average night is the same. I would rather see a player like Sampson get more minutes. It affects the other players. Kufous has some intensity, and plays defense every night. He can board, but his offense and athleticism are limited. Sampson has the athletic ability and strength which you cannot teach. If he can learn to shoot from 12 feet there should be room made for him.

The Kings guards especially Mason and Bogdan have intensity. Fox brings the speed and Buddy brings scoring. All of them are improving. Hill is starting show up more in games.
It comes back to the big men. I believe that the near term future of the Kings success hinges on the intensity and toughness of their big men, which has been sorely lacking most of the time.

 

[sactowndog]

The Kings have lacked intensity from their big men. Skal is the poster boy for passive. Willie on an average night is the same. I would rather see a player like Sampson get more minutes. It affects the other players. Kufous has some intensity, and plays defense every night. He can board, but his offense and athleticism are limited. Sampson has the athletic ability and strength which you cannot teach. If he can learn to shoot from 12 feet there should be room made for him.

The Kings guards especially Mason and Bogdan have intensity. Fox brings the speed and Buddy brings scoring. All of them are improving. Hill is starting show up more in games.
It comes back to the big men. I believe that the near term future of the Kings success hinges on the intensity and toughness of their big men, which has been sorely lacking most of the time.

Yep another night where ZBo and Vince play big minutes and to ZBo’s credit we won. We are perilously close to slipping out of top 5 drafting position. They say we are in rebuild mode but no player with an F or C next to their name and under 25 played more than 12 minutes.

I get Kings fans are starved for wins but I struggle to see where this leads us.

 

[ppine]

Give up the idea of tanking. It is strictly for losers.
Confidence is the biggest change in the Kings.
Vince and Zbo handled Cousins and AD as well as can be expected. Small ball works for the Kings. Fewer turnovers, better passing and better defense.
There is a big change in the Kings since they got rid of Skal and Willie is out.
I see much greater mental toughness.

 

[ockingsfan]

Yep another night where ZBo and Vince play big minutes and to ZBo’s credit we won. We are perilously close to slipping out of top 5 drafting position. They say we are in rebuild mode but no player with an F or C next to their name and under 25 played more than 12 minutes.

I get Kings fans are starved for wins but I struggle to see where this leads us.

Well, you really have to learn to close out games in the NBA. During overtime, I think there were Fox, Mason and Buddy on the floor with ZBo. They all had a big part in closing out the win.

If nothing else, ZBo is showing the kids by example how to be tough and close out games, which will be invaluable in the growing and maturation process of the Kids.

Like Vlade said before, the growth of our current young kids is just as important as any lottery pick. He wants the kids to learn how to win.

 

[sactowndog]

Well, you really have to learn to close out games in the NBA. During overtime, I think there were Fox, Mason and Buddy on the floor with ZBo. They all had a big part in closing out the win.

If nothing else, ZBo is showing the kids by example how to be tough and close out games, which will be invaluable in the growing and maturation process of the Kids.

Like Vlade said before, the growth of our current young kids is just as important as any lottery pick. He wants the kids to learn how to win.

I’m not sure Vlade has a clear strategy as evidenced by the trib article on Hill. The fact the key players weren’t on the same page is poor. Sadly the dollars they paid them make them hard to move anywhere else.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1646876

 

[VF21]

I’m not sure Vlade has a clear strategy as evidenced by the trib article on Hill. The fact the key players weren’t on the same page is poor. Sadly the dollars they paid them make them hard to move anywhere else.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1646876

I'm not sure the Tribune article, which consists of absolutely no facts whatsoever, is a valid reference. It certainly doesn't provide evidence.

 

[sactowndog]

I'm not sure the Tribune article, which consists of absolutely no facts whatsoever, is a valid reference. It certainly doesn't provide evidence.

Well I think it accurately represents Hills opinions.

 

[VF21]

Well I think it accurately represents Hills opinions.

And that's why I said previously that we could agree to disagree. The horse is dead. Can we quit beating it now?

 

[ockingsfan]

As far as the rebuild goes, I think that we are on the right track. The young guys are playing significant minutes and they are in the games at the end, when the games are decided.

I think a lot will hinge on this summer. We need to find the alpha scorer, to go along with all our current young players.

Now, does a full on tank need to occur? No, I don't think so.

The way the NBA draft typically goes, Alpha scorers don't necessarily need to be top 1 or 2. Just look at this years draft, the players that look like potential Alpha scorers were drafted #8 Dennis Smith, #13th Donovan Mitchel, #3 Jayson Tatum. With a little bit of luck and a good scouting department, we could pluck a very viable alpha scorer, anywhere from #1-10.

So, I am all for developing our current players the right way and teach them how to close out games and breed a competitive team now, so when we do get that alpha scorer, we can start to look at the playoffs as a realistic goal.

 

[Suicide King]

As far as the rebuild goes, I think that we are on the right track. The young guys are playing significant minutes and they are in the games at the end, when the games are decided.

I think a lot will hinge on this summer. We need to find the alpha scorer, to go along with all our current young players.

Now, does a full on tank need to occur? No, I don't think so.

The way the NBA draft typically goes, Alpha scorers don't necessarily need to be top 1 or 2. Just look at this years draft, the players that look like potential Alpha scorers were drafted #8 Dennis Smith, #13th Donovan Mitchel, #3 Jayson Tatum. With a little bit of luck and a good scouting department, we could pluck a very viable alpha scorer, anywhere from #1-10.

So, I am all for developing our current players the right way and teach them how to close out games and breed a competitive team now, so when we do get that alpha scorer, we can start to look at the playoffs as a realistic goal.

I would also like to point out that no team was going to out tank the Bulls. Unless Lavine elevates them quite a bit with his return, it just is not going to happen. The players we already have still need to learn all they can as well, so throwing games from the jump was also never going to happen. Has it been a perfect rebuild? Doubtful but it's hard to judge considering we traded DMC in February.

 

[SacTownKid]

As far as the rebuild goes, I think that we are on the right track. The young guys are playing significant minutes and they are in the games at the end, when the games are decided.

I think a lot will hinge on this summer. We need to find the alpha scorer, to go along with all our current young players.

Now, does a full on tank need to occur? No, I don't think so.

The way the NBA draft typically goes, Alpha scorers don't necessarily need to be top 1 or 2. Just look at this years draft, the players that look like potential Alpha scorers were drafted #8 Dennis Smith, #13th Donovan Mitchel, #3 Jayson Tatum. With a little bit of luck and a good scouting department, we could pluck a very viable alpha scorer, anywhere from #1-10.

So, I am all for developing our current players the right way and teach them how to close out games and breed a competitive team now, so when we do get that alpha scorer, we can start to look at the playoffs as a realistic goal.

Alpha what? Buddy Hield says give me some more dang shots!

 

[ockingsfan]

Alpha what? Buddy Hield says give me some more dang shots!

Buddy has some potential, but he has not solidified Alpha scorer status.

He needs to prove that he can be an effective starter and consistent scorer when starting.

 

[upinsmoke]

Alpha what? Buddy Hield says give me some more dang shots!

Buddy is doing the damn thing. Crazy idea but hear me out, let's run some more plays for him.

 

[SacTownKid]

Buddy has some potential, but he has not solidified Alpha scorer status.

He needs to prove that he can be an effective starter and consistent scorer when starting.

I think he looks more like a potential alpha scorer than some of the guys you mentioned. Probably more as a shooter but the league today shows that might even be more in demand than high usage, pound the rock types.

And being an effective scorer has as much to do with how the player is used than anything. Playing him with the starters and having him as a swing the ball and stand out at the 3 point line decoy watching the action like they did before will do nothing to show you what he is or can become. The players playing well from the bench has everything to do with how they are being used.

 

[King Baller]

Well I think it accurately represents Hills opinions.

 

[ESP47]

Buddy is doing the damn thing. Crazy idea but hear me out, let's run some more plays for him.

Would be nice to set him up off of screens the way Redick gets open. His game obviously isn't handling the ball and getting his own shot but when he gets a little bit of daylight, he's money.

 

[dude12]

Carmichael Dave addresses the SLC Tribune article on his morning show. I only heard parts but he said that the vets were not pulled together and told the strategy has changed from winning to developing. Made note of no named sources, and also mentioned that he would have a hard time believing that George Hill is going to leak to the press. Hill is engaged with the team and has started mentoring one of the local high schools....similar to what Garret Temple has started with another school.

 

[lwc]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I don't see really anyone as untouchable on this team.

Considering we do have so many young players that aren't considered blue chip prospects, I really hope that we are aggressive by trying to use them to move up in drafts.

Whenever the Kings begin this process with Vlade Divac I begin to assume that this was about talent AND assett acquisition. Vlade probably looked at the Kings team in realize there was really only 2 maybe 3 assets (draft pick, Boogie, Willie). Then he begin trading some of those draft picks during every draft for multiple players or picks or even player rights like Bogdan Bogdanovich. He was trying to collect as many assets as possible. It truly was a win-win situation: either increase your chances to find a great player or spend a season or two developing them into solid NBA players who are trade pieces. Remember the roster that Vlade Divac inherited with guys like Ryan Hollins, Ray McCallum, and others that aren't even really in the league anymore and probably shouldn't have been? I would venture to guess now that at least two or three teams or more in the league would want maybe even eight or nine or even 10 players off this roster.

As TWslam and others have indicated, there's a real chance for at least one solid trade with these young players to move up in this year's draft or to get a 2019 draft pick back. Every wise general manager knows that you must acquire assets to rebuild as well as to improve your team. Only about three or four teams in the league get players under value because they want to win and even that is beginning to go away.

I have seen enough smart moves and good decisions by Dave Joerger and Vlade Divac to trust them for a few seasons.

 

[SacTownKid]

Carmichael Dave addresses the SLC Tribune article on his morning show. I only heard parts but he said that the vets were not pulled together and told the strategy has changed from winning to developing. Made note of no named sources, and also mentioned that he would have a hard time believing that George Hill is going to leak to the press. Hill is engaged with the team and has started mentoring one of the local high schools....similar to what Garret Temple has started with another school.

If this wasn't about development to begin with then the continued issues with delusion may mean another long, harsh rebuild with another changeover in the FO and on the roster after a few years. Keep playing the rotation in the middle of the road and letting game to game moments dictate your rotation and the eventual meltdown will come. The question is whether they want to anger 3-4 guys, or 13-14 guys.