Rebuild Strategy (or WE WANT LINS!)
- Thread starter dude12
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That is a VERY generous label of franchise players. None of the ones you listed are franchise level players. Maybe all stars but there is a distinct gap between an all star and a true franchise level player. None of the players you listed have done enough to be considered as franchise players, or at least showed enough.
Booker and the Sixers guys have proven enough to be franchise players. Booker is carrying one of the worst rosters in the NBA on his back every night at 21 yearsold. Embiid and Simmons are bluechip prospects as long as they can stay healthy. They are franchise players.
I don't know about your definition of a franchise player, but all stars are most likely franchise players imo. Yeah you have Klay and Draymond, but those guys mostly make it due to their team's record and teammates. Just like how Korver made it with the Hawks that one year they won 60 games.
Here's what I think a franchise player is:
I don't know about your definition of a franchise player, but all stars are most likely franchise players imo. Yeah you have Klay and Draymond, but those guys mostly make it due to their team's record and teammates. Just like how Korver made it with the Hawks that one year they won 60 games.
Here's what I think a franchise player is:
- 20ppg+ scorer on good efficiency
- someone who can create their own shot
- someone who isn't afraid to be THE guy and take last second shots
a lot of people complained that with boogie we were winning just enough to keep us in the middle of the pack. Not sixers bad so we could draft top 1-3. Not good enough to sneak into the playoffs. So we get rid of boogie to do a legitimate rebuild. Then vlade picks up zbo who is now playing some pretty good minutes and helping us win. I could see us end up winning the same amount as if we still had boogie. Unless vlades ultimate goal was to build up zbo and trade him away for draft picks, how does a boogie-ish winning record help our supposed rebuild? How does us picking in the 6-9 spot help us at all?
What the hell do I know? Maybe coach and vlade think that this team can make a legit run at the 8th spot with a reinvigorated zbo.
What the hell do I know? Maybe coach and vlade think that this team can make a legit run at the 8th spot with a reinvigorated zbo.
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I thought everyone who complained about the Hill and Z-bo signings "moving the needle" enough to hurt our draft position were crazy! I laughed at em!
Who's laughing now (properly tanking teams)?! Sorry guys. .. I didn't expect Z-bo to have such a renaissance. Dude is beasting.
Ah well, the season is still young. Joeger is a good coach, we have some young talent on the team. This is still less frustrating than the Cuz + garbage players + trash coaching Kings teams.
Who's laughing now (properly tanking teams)?! Sorry guys. .. I didn't expect Z-bo to have such a renaissance. Dude is beasting.
Ah well, the season is still young. Joeger is a good coach, we have some young talent on the team. This is still less frustrating than the Cuz + garbage players + trash coaching Kings teams.
I am getting a little anxious that we will play our way into a middling pick, but a few things:
1. We still have a trade to make, and being frisky like we have been at least gives us a foot in the door should a star-level vet become available. Marc Gasol, for instance, doesn’t automatically say no if his agent tells him we’re working on a deal for him. He might think about and then say no, but we will at least have an opportunity to make a pitch to him via his agent. Not a huge thing, because those deals are rare, but no small thing either.
2. I actually kind of like the 6-10 spots again this year, and there will be some talented scorers available there. They may not be seamless fits like the top 3 picks, but guys like Sexton/Knox/Bridges are interesting options.
3. Having said that, if Stern were still in charge, I would feel 95% certain we are getting Luka Doncic no matter what happens during the season—we have a history of star international players, an international front office, a great coach with a good roster and stable situation, and an offense that is begging for a wing playmaker to come in and make himself a perennial All-Star. Alas, Stern is not in charge anymore. Still, superstar prospects seem to have a way of going to the most stable, promising options under Silver, too, so maybe luck will be on our side. BTW, if Stern were still in charge the draft would go Dallas/Sac/Atlanta...Chicago could get Porter and deal with it.
1. We still have a trade to make, and being frisky like we have been at least gives us a foot in the door should a star-level vet become available. Marc Gasol, for instance, doesn’t automatically say no if his agent tells him we’re working on a deal for him. He might think about and then say no, but we will at least have an opportunity to make a pitch to him via his agent. Not a huge thing, because those deals are rare, but no small thing either.
2. I actually kind of like the 6-10 spots again this year, and there will be some talented scorers available there. They may not be seamless fits like the top 3 picks, but guys like Sexton/Knox/Bridges are interesting options.
3. Having said that, if Stern were still in charge, I would feel 95% certain we are getting Luka Doncic no matter what happens during the season—we have a history of star international players, an international front office, a great coach with a good roster and stable situation, and an offense that is begging for a wing playmaker to come in and make himself a perennial All-Star. Alas, Stern is not in charge anymore. Still, superstar prospects seem to have a way of going to the most stable, promising options under Silver, too, so maybe luck will be on our side. BTW, if Stern were still in charge the draft would go Dallas/Sac/Atlanta...Chicago could get Porter and deal with it.
We're not even talking about tanking. Are we even in a rebuild?
I'm taking this from another site because I didn't see it but have read a couple of conversations about it.
Last night Eddie Johnson from the Phoenix Suns commented after the game "what are the kings trying to do? Win with Zbo, Hill and other veterans or rebuild?"
I think we have to wait until next season. If we still have Zbo then I think we'd be safe to assume that we were never in a rebuild mode.
I'm taking this from another site because I didn't see it but have read a couple of conversations about it.
Last night Eddie Johnson from the Phoenix Suns commented after the game "what are the kings trying to do? Win with Zbo, Hill and other veterans or rebuild?"
I think we have to wait until next season. If we still have Zbo then I think we'd be safe to assume that we were never in a rebuild mode.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...rockets-proving-theyre-legit-title-contenders
Kings at #29.
Here's the last couple of sentences of our ranking:
Kings at #29.
Here's the last couple of sentences of our ranking:
"The Kings change plans on a week-to-week basis, a haphazard approach that has made (and will make) sustained success impossible."
I think it is premature to worry about things like "the next rebuild" , "changeover in the FO and the roster". The Kings are getting big minutes from rookies and second year players. We have no idea how they will develop or how the team will look once the team gels. We are in the very early phase of THIS rebuild. Why spend all of our energy worrying about it? For me it is better to enjoy watching Mason pick apart the other teams with that stoic look on his face. Better to enjoy a Bogi assist/ hockey assist to Willie then watch them smile
When Skal dunks with authority or hits that sweet J it is really nice. When Fox accelerates and lays in the ball. When Willie steps out and defends the pick and roll causing the other team to reset late in the shot clock. Buddy sinking multiple threes and breaking the other teams spirit. When Justin hits a three or lays in that sweet floater. All these things are beautiful and small previews of what is to come. Sometimes you have to just let the worries go and focus on what is good
When Skal dunks with authority or hits that sweet J it is really nice. When Fox accelerates and lays in the ball. When Willie steps out and defends the pick and roll causing the other team to reset late in the shot clock. Buddy sinking multiple threes and breaking the other teams spirit. When Justin hits a three or lays in that sweet floater. All these things are beautiful and small previews of what is to come. Sometimes you have to just let the worries go and focus on what is goodI'm going to cut my posting about the Kings way down for a while or maybe even stop all together until Joerger and whoever else gets fired for the incompetency of this franchise. They're headed toward another pointless year, full of pointless wins, only to miss out on a franchise player because they have this incessant need to grind out wins using players that won't even be here for the proverbial playoff run we have all been hoping for in the future. This franchise is like a kid that keeps forgetting the stove is hot and continues to touch it every year. How many times can the same mistake be made by a professional franchise?
I don't understand why people get excited over wins like this. They won because of ZBo and Hill. If you are rooting for a playoff run in a couple years, all this does is hurt those chances. Does anyone remember the 9th win of the 2010 season? Does anyone remember the 9th win of the 2012 season? No....because no one cares and because when we think about what makes us happy about being Kings fans, it's usually the glory days with Webber and co. So these mini shots of dopamine you get from these pointless wins might make you feel good as a fan from game to game but in the long run they're going to keep us from ever being excited on a higher level about this team.
Our "franchise" player in Fox is used solely as a defender that brings the ball up the court and hands it to ZBo. That's all he's being used for. Go watch the first half over again. This isn't a player that is timid. This is a guy who is being forced into a crap system that does nothing other than hamper his future development so a guy like ZBo can shine. I have zero problems with ZBo because this is Joerger's issue. I'm tired of watching it because it's boring, pointless and damaging to all of the young guys on the team. I never in a million years thought this year would be boring. I thought it would have plenty of head scratching moments and I thought it would be frustrating watching young guys play like young guys but I never thought it would be boring because I didn't think the coach and the franchise were so inept that they would ride aging veterans all year at the expense of our young guys.
I'm sure people are tired of reading my repetitive rhetoric and quite frankly, I'm tired of writing it. Teams like the Lakers are doing it the right way. They are so far ahead of us on the intelligence scale that it's infuriating to sit back and watch one or two of their young guys shine on a nightly basis while we're stuck here watching ZBo shine because our main guy in Fox is being so mishandled so badly by our coach that it should be considered abuse. All the rumors about Joerger being a terrible coach for the development of young players are completely true. This guy has no idea how to coach a rebuilding franchise so there's almost no point in putting any more time into this unless he gets fired or something changes drastically.
I don't understand why people get excited over wins like this. They won because of ZBo and Hill. If you are rooting for a playoff run in a couple years, all this does is hurt those chances. Does anyone remember the 9th win of the 2010 season? Does anyone remember the 9th win of the 2012 season? No....because no one cares and because when we think about what makes us happy about being Kings fans, it's usually the glory days with Webber and co. So these mini shots of dopamine you get from these pointless wins might make you feel good as a fan from game to game but in the long run they're going to keep us from ever being excited on a higher level about this team.
Our "franchise" player in Fox is used solely as a defender that brings the ball up the court and hands it to ZBo. That's all he's being used for. Go watch the first half over again. This isn't a player that is timid. This is a guy who is being forced into a crap system that does nothing other than hamper his future development so a guy like ZBo can shine. I have zero problems with ZBo because this is Joerger's issue. I'm tired of watching it because it's boring, pointless and damaging to all of the young guys on the team. I never in a million years thought this year would be boring. I thought it would have plenty of head scratching moments and I thought it would be frustrating watching young guys play like young guys but I never thought it would be boring because I didn't think the coach and the franchise were so inept that they would ride aging veterans all year at the expense of our young guys.
I'm sure people are tired of reading my repetitive rhetoric and quite frankly, I'm tired of writing it. Teams like the Lakers are doing it the right way. They are so far ahead of us on the intelligence scale that it's infuriating to sit back and watch one or two of their young guys shine on a nightly basis while we're stuck here watching ZBo shine because our main guy in Fox is being so mishandled so badly by our coach that it should be considered abuse. All the rumors about Joerger being a terrible coach for the development of young players are completely true. This guy has no idea how to coach a rebuilding franchise so there's almost no point in putting any more time into this unless he gets fired or something changes drastically.
You my friend have the right idea. If we who think like your last post keep posting the same thing over and over again, well, we're viewed as trolls. Why bother? I to will probably take a step back and just let the sunshine crowd enjoy each individual win. Why not? It's probably more enjoyable than seeing the big picture and seeing nothing but more ineptitude in our future. I need to train myself to be more like the sunshine crowd. Live in the moment. Future be damned.
Couldn’t agree more. I’m so sick of seeing z-bo as the leading scorer, logging heavy minutes every night. What good does this do us in the long run? Maybe we’re building culture, but if we’re not building up our young players, what’s the point? Play the vets in reserve roles and let the kids go out there and get their reps. Otherwise we’re a future middling team for years to come.
Oh well if bleacher report said it...
Truth is I don't care what anyone thinks I'm loving watching this team right now. Competitive basketball where we are in it late in games builds these players better than having opposing teams bulldozer us every night. Your entitled to your opinion but me personally I was brought up to compete.
Truth is I don't care what anyone thinks I'm loving watching this team right now. Competitive basketball where we are in it late in games builds these players better than having opposing teams bulldozer us every night. Your entitled to your opinion but me personally I was brought up to compete.
The Kings guards are playing well and are maybe ahead of schedule. Randolph is playing like he always has and is dependable. Kufous can back him up. It is the power forward position that troubles me. Willie and Skal are under achievers. Willie gets fired up once in awhile and then disappears agains. Maybe he needs a psychologist. The Kings have made great progress and are fun to watch most of the time. Their offense really struggles at times against certain teams, but otherwise they are able to compete. Now is the time to show some patience, and keep an eye out for a proven player at the 4.
i thought a complete rebuild was about developing. We all know it's gonna be painful. We all know it's gonna hurt. Let the youth log most of the minutes. The vets should be a second thought. 3-4 years of being the worst team in the league would be ok with me if I could see a direction we're going in. As of now I don't see a direction. can you tell me what this teams directive is?
Win now?
Are we in a rebuild? A half rebuild?
If we end up trading zbo then I'll gladly admit I was just a worrying lame a$$. Vlade had a plan all along. Unfortunately I don't see that happening. Joeger loves zbo. LOVES HIM. It would take huge balls for vlade to trade him away from under joeger. I don't think vlade has the guts to do that.
Win now?
Are we in a rebuild? A half rebuild?
If we end up trading zbo then I'll gladly admit I was just a worrying lame a$$. Vlade had a plan all along. Unfortunately I don't see that happening. Joeger loves zbo. LOVES HIM. It would take huge balls for vlade to trade him away from under joeger. I don't think vlade has the guts to do that.
I agree with almost everything you said. Look at Phoenix who played Ulis 30 min and James 20 min even though James was the more effective player. If it were the young guys leading us to victory I could live with it. But when you put your young guys on the bench so your 30 year olds can snatch a victory that makes no sense.
What I disagree with is it’s the fans not the franchise touching the hot stove.... Why I don’t know...
What I disagree with is it’s the fans not the franchise touching the hot stove.... Why I don’t know...
I dunno man, those two have had plenty of opportunities to earn their minutes and they aren't. Skal is showing improvement on the boards and on defense tho. It seems that if we're going to build them (or tank), then Vlade has to be the one to do it.
In general to this thread, I think the 2/3 mark of the season is the time to look at our talent and the last 1/3 is the time to look at our rebuild strategy. Still too early for me to get irate.
For the former, it allows for the rooks to get acclimated to the NBA and we can more fairly judge them.
For the latter, I hope to see the vets rest (possibly trade Hill). As long as this happens, this strategy makes sense. Give the guys confidence and moral early, let the team gel.
I actually do not want to trade Zbo. I think we should keep him for the rest of his career. He is playing amazing offense, is like Santa Claus, and is cheap. We could use him in the playoffs next season
I wish there were some stats people still on this board with extensive NBA knowledge that could tell us the successes of previous teams' strategies. One thing I'm sure of: the 76er's method isn't the only one that works.
In general to this thread, I think the 2/3 mark of the season is the time to look at our talent and the last 1/3 is the time to look at our rebuild strategy. Still too early for me to get irate.
For the former, it allows for the rooks to get acclimated to the NBA and we can more fairly judge them.
For the latter, I hope to see the vets rest (possibly trade Hill). As long as this happens, this strategy makes sense. Give the guys confidence and moral early, let the team gel.
I actually do not want to trade Zbo. I think we should keep him for the rest of his career. He is playing amazing offense, is like Santa Claus, and is cheap. We could use him in the playoffs next season
I wish there were some stats people still on this board with extensive NBA knowledge that could tell us the successes of previous teams' strategies. One thing I'm sure of: the 76er's method isn't the only one that works.