RealGM Team Rankings as of aug 15th

[Warhawk]

They are better than us until they prove they aren't


Yeah, but I think an 0-6 record over the last 3 years kinda shows that. Even if you throw out last year because of b), that is still 0-4. We have been the better team in head-to-head matchups. I say we are the better team (over the last few years, anyways) until THEY prove otherwise. In a roundabout way, you kinda said the same thing....

Of course, we'll have to see how the revamped Kings play this year.

Ranking teams this early is really, really pointless.

 

[Bricklayer]

They are better than us until they prove they aren't


Yeah, but I think an 0-6 record over the last 3 years kinda shows that. Even if you throw out last year because of b), that is still 0-4. We have been the better team in head-to-head matchups. I say we are the better team (over the last few years, anyways) until THEY prove otherwise. In a roundabout way, you kinda said the same thing....

Of course, we'll have to see how the revamped Kings play this year.

Ranking teams this early is really, really pointless.

There is nobody left from those matchups. Head to head is just about the worst possible way to rank teams if you extend it out for any period, because those teams do not exist anymore. Chris Webber, Vlade Divac, Doug Christe, Bobby Jackson are all gone. So are Peeler, Massenburg, Wallace, Jabari, Buford and quite likely Songaila. There's just no basis at all for a comparison today to be made with a team that has turned over 10 of its 13 players.

 

[G_M]

The Mavs were certainly better then us. They would've made mince meat out of us. And are certainly better then us now.

Hard to believe in 3 years the roles are reversed but is such in the NBA. Wasn't long ago we had a ball making fun of the Mavs "D" while now we seem to be the joke. Or atleast close to it.

Going to be a long year.

I'm sorry I just don't understand comments like this. How do you know what the Kings team is going to be like? It's almost a new team. I just don't think you can project how players are going to mesh together, for the good or bad.

I can't recall anyone thinking the Suns would have the year that they did last year. The Sonics certainly surpassed almost everyones expectations while the T'Wolves who were considered preseason favorites to at least do some damage in the playoffs didn't even make the playoffs.

 

[Chris Cobb]

i think that these rankings are flawed in many ways. altho that doesnt seem to be an unique opinion around here. however, i do believe that 1-4 are correct, i could easily see the mavericks having the 4th best record in the league, title contenders well i think that might be a whole nother talk.

1) The Pheonix Suns will not be anywhere close to as good as they were last season, i foresee a key injury and a lackluster season.

2) Indiana is the 5th best team in the league if not better barring anything catastrophic (*cough* big fight *cough*)

3) I almost kind of think of the Kings, Rockets and Nuggets almost being in a very similar state. Altho i think the Kings have the best shot of these three, I think that all three of these teams have a really good chance of having a great season. that is if george karl doesnt follow in his predecessor's footsteps.

4) Bulls and Cavs should be higher, with the Bulls higher than the Cavs

5) Get the Lakers and T'Wolves off that list

 

[PFFFT!!]

LOL! Dallas. They just lost one of their best players and sharp shooters for an aging Christie. Come on now. Someone must love Texas to put all 3 teams in the top 5. Geez.

 

[Warhawk]

There is nobody left from those matchups. Head to head is just about the worst possible way to rank teams if you extend it out for any period, because those teams do not exist anymore. Chris Webber, Vlade Divac, Doug Christe, Bobby Jackson are all gone. So are Peeler, Massenburg, Wallace, Jabari, Buford and quite likely Songaila. There's just no basis at all for a comparison today to be made with a team that has turned over 10 of its 13 players.

True, but that is really the only method we currently have and until we actually see these two teams play we still have no idea how good either will be. Will the Kings gel quickly and turn into an offensive juggernaut again? Will the team defense improve or still give up as many points as they score? What other moves will GP make? Will the Pacers pull a Minnesota and implode or a Phoenix and make large gains in their record? NOBODY (at this point) KNOWS. The only thing you can go by is recent head to head matchups, and with a large turnover of personnel, that is a risky proposition as well. There is also no reason to assume that even with the turnover the Kings experienced that they are going to be that much worse than the Pacers when everyone seems to agree that the Kings imoproved themselves in the off-season. Again, nobody knows, so this is all pretty pointless. I do know that RA, with the teams he had over the past 3 years (including an injured Webber), have beaten the Pacers every time they played. That is all we have to go on at this point.

 

[VF21]

True, but that is really the only method we currently have and until we actually see these two teams play we still have no idea how good either will be. Will the Kings gel quickly and turn into an offensive juggernaut again? Will the team defense improve or still give up as many points as they score? What other moves will GP make? Will the Pacers pull a Minnesota and implode or a Phoenix and make large gains in their record? NOBODY (at this point) KNOWS. The only thing you can go by is recent head to head matchups, and with a large turnover of personnel, that is a risky proposition as well. There is also no reason to assume that even with the turnover the Kings experienced that they are going to be that much worse than the Pacers when everyone seems to agree that the Kings imoproved themselves in the off-season. Again, nobody knows, so this is all pretty pointless. I do know that RA, with the teams he had over the past 3 years (including an injured Webber), have beaten the Pacers every time they played. That is all we have to go on at this point.

Please review the bolded phrases. Those are the exact reasons why ranking teams in AUGUST makes zero sense.

 

[Kings113]

They made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs and were one of the 4 remaining teams out West?

But a lot of the talk was WCF/Finals. Along with some title winning talk.

 

[Kings113]

Seems funny you said this. While we have struggled with Dallas for years during the regular season, we haven't struggled with them during the POs. I'm not saying things would have been repeated but I know for a fact we matchup much better with the Mavs than we do the Sonics. The Mavs are definitely an improved team from years past (2003, eh, lucky) for a playoff run. Mince meat.......I don't know about that.

Agreed. Definitely not mince meat, we would of went 6 games with them IMO. Maybe even won, but I'd favor Dallas if that's how it was back then.

I'm sorry I just don't understand comments like this. How do you know what the Kings team is going to be like? It's almost a new team. I just don't think you can project how players are going to mesh together, for the good or bad.

I can't recall anyone thinking the Suns would have the year that they did last year. The Sonics certainly surpassed almost everyones expectations while the T'Wolves who were considered preseason favorites to at least do some damage in the playoffs didn't even make the playoffs.

Agreed. Especially when the bench isn't done yet.

 

[Bricklayer]

True, but that is really the only method we currently have and until we actually see these two teams play we still have no idea how good either will be. Will the Kings gel quickly and turn into an offensive juggernaut again? Will the team defense improve or still give up as many points as they score? What other moves will GP make? Will the Pacers pull a Minnesota and implode or a Phoenix and make large gains in their record? NOBODY (at this point) KNOWS. The only thing you can go by is recent head to head matchups, and with a large turnover of personnel, that is a risky proposition as well. There is also no reason to assume that even with the turnover the Kings experienced that they are going to be that much worse than the Pacers when everyone seems to agree that the Kings imoproved themselves in the off-season. Again, nobody knows, so this is all pretty pointless. I do know that RA, with the teams he had over the past 3 years (including an injured Webber), have beaten the Pacers every time they played. That is all we have to go on at this point.

"Nobody knows" means we don;t even have this thread. But "its pretty damn obvious" is a better mantra in this case. Indiana had the fluke year last year, but we KNOW what they can do when they are all together. And its very impressive. O'Neal/Artest are back, Tinsely has vastly improved, Jackson is really an all around upgrade form the old Reggie of two years ago and thye have the same centers. Its largely the same team that won 61...only better. The one missing peice is Al Harrington, but given that the rest of the bench has improved considerably and many had breakout years last year, that shouldn't be much of a factor.

Indiana is pretty much the proven elite team in this case. We are anybody's guess. Essentially new kids on the block. Unproven, and clearly lacking defensively. Barring another brawl, it would be a shock to see Indiana win less than 55 and not be in the scrum atop the East along with Miami/Detroit as a serious championship contender. Nothing good or bad would be much of a shock with us other than a) us beating the Spurs; or b) us actually slipping into the lottery.

 

[bigbadred00]

I agree with Brick, I think the Pacers can only go up. Last year without much help they played extremely well all year even making the second round.

Lineup is pretty damn good:

Foster
Jermaine
Artest
Jackson
Tinsley

Pretty Good Bench
Granger (what a steal)
Pollard/Harrison
Sarunas Jasikevicius
Anthony Johnson
Fred Jones/ James Jones

Granger, Johnson and Both Jones are pretty good, Harrison ain't bad and they still have under-producing Bender. I don't know if there better than the Pistons or the Heat, but they're better than a lot of teams in the league.

 

[Venom]

The Mavs are much better than this team right now. The reason the Kings used to dispatch the Mavs so handily in the playoffs was Webber. They had absolutely no answer for him and the triple threat he posed. He DESTROYED the Mavs in the paint. The Mavs play good D now, and its only going to get better with Avery at the helm. They're a battle-hardened team that has weaned itself down to guys who can actually perform and contribute to a whole team concept. . .and Dampier.

I am completely baffled as to why everyone is singing the funeral dirge for the Phoenix Suns. They had a small window already, because of Nash's age and Amare's contract, so they went all out in order to make it happen over these next 2 years. Q has a bad back, and they got Thomas for him. . .GREAT move. Johnson is a stud, and I think worth the money, but if you're mortgaging the future anyway, it doesn't make sense to have a questionable max contract hanging around your neck while you try to rebuild 2-3 years from now. In exchange they get Diaw, who could surprise. He'll probably play some backup PG, where Barbosa has struggled. This Suns team will shred the current Kings. We have absolutely no answer for their frontcourt. NONE. Oh, and they should be adding Finley to help shore up that loss of shooting.

The Pacers would have been representing the East if it weren't for the brawl. They are loaded, and just added silky smooth Granger. PG play remains there only real question mark. And that big trade the Heat made had more to do with contending with the Pacers than with the Pistons, IMO. Wade stays healthy and they beat the Pistons, but if that same roster had run across the Pacers this year they'd lose in 5. They need the shooting of Walker and Williams to keep Jackson, Granger, and Artest honest. Plus, Posey gives them a guy to match up with those guys on the other end, as they are all physical players, in contrast to Prince or Hamilton.

 

[thesanityannex]

this is the website that had us signing a hockey player?

But they said we had a guy who scored 3 goals a game, he was a stud!!! Phx too high, Mavs too high, Kings at 7.

 

[thesanityannex]

Question: Is this about team's power rankings, or about offseason moves? Because there are two different things being discussed here.

 

[bozzwell]

Never mind the rankings, at least in the TDOS. But just by scanning rosters and looking back at the last year, here is how I would group NBA teams by their "level":

Elite: Spurs, Pacers, Heat and Detroit (Detroit more or less based on their record, although this could be a year when they drop out from the Elite).

Near Elite/Contenders that are just a little bit short: Suns, Dallas and Rockets.

Very Good teams that have very little or no chance in June: Kings, Bulls, Cavs, Wolves, Nets and Denver.

Good teams that might go up or down: Sixers, Wizards, Lakers, Warriors, Sonics (?), Bucks

And then there is the Rest.

My teams to watch, or teams that I suspect could transcend their level: Kings, Wolves, Warriors and Rockets.

 

[Mad D]

Never mind the rankings, at least in the TDOS. But just by scanning rosters and looking back at the last year, here is how I would group NBA teams by their "level":

Elite: Spurs, Pacers, Heat and Detroit (Detroit more or less based on their record, although this could be a year when they drop out from the Elite).

Near Elite/Contenders that are just a little bit short: Suns, Dallas and Rockets.

Very Good teams that have very little or no chance in June: Kings, Bulls, Cavs, Wolves, Nets and Denver.

Good teams that might go up or down: Sixers, Wizards, Lakers, Warriors, Sonics (?), Bucks

And then there is the Rest.
My teams to watch, or teams that I suspect could transcend their level: Kings, Wolves, Warriors and Rockets.

I agree, but that's only because I put something similar in another thread:
http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showpost.php?p=180970&postcount=15

 

[bozzwell]

I agree, but that's only because I put something similar in another thread:
http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showpost.php?p=180970&postcount=15

Oops! Didn't see that. How does that saying go? "Bored Kings Fans think alike"?

 

[bigbadred00]

The Mavs are much better than this team right now. The reason the Kings used to dispatch the Mavs so handily in the playoffs was Webber. They had absolutely no answer for him and the triple threat he posed. He DESTROYED the Mavs in the paint. The Mavs play good D now, and its only going to get better with Avery at the helm. They're a battle-hardened team that has weaned itself down to guys who can actually perform and contribute to a whole team concept. . .and Dampier.

I am completely baffled as to why everyone is singing the funeral dirge for the Phoenix Suns. They had a small window already, because of Nash's age and Amare's contract, so they went all out in order to make it happen over these next 2 years. Q has a bad back, and they got Thomas for him. . .GREAT move. Johnson is a stud, and I think worth the money, but if you're mortgaging the future anyway, it doesn't make sense to have a questionable max contract hanging around your neck while you try to rebuild 2-3 years from now. In exchange they get Diaw, who could surprise. He'll probably play some backup PG, where Barbosa has struggled. This Suns team will shred the current Kings. We have absolutely no answer for their frontcourt. NONE. Oh, and they should be adding Finley to help shore up that loss of shooting.

The Pacers would have been representing the East if it weren't for the brawl. They are loaded, and just added silky smooth Granger. PG play remains there only real question mark. And that big trade the Heat made had more to do with contending with the Pacers than with the Pistons, IMO. Wade stays healthy and they beat the Pistons, but if that same roster had run across the Pacers this year they'd lose in 5. They need the shooting of Walker and Williams to keep Jackson, Granger, and Artest honest. Plus, Posey gives them a guy to match up with those guys on the other end, as they are all physical players, in contrast to Prince or Hamilton.

Play good D? Selectively. They got burned left and right in the playoffs, yes against good teams, but against scoring teams there D, was nowhere to be seen. I know the Suns are a bad example, but they gave up 117.5 PPG in a 6 game series against the Mavs (not saying we are that much better). Mavs D is still paltry in comparison to any real good defensive team and even paltry in comparison to the Kings in 2002. Their faults are many. Dampier and Howard are upgrades, Dampier when motivated, over their past teams, but we all saw Nash treat Terry like Bibby used to treat Nash in the POs, he got shreaded. Dirk didn't do a great job with Amare either, nobody did.

I believe the Mavs took a step in the right direction, but you said they play good D. What they did was pretty average especially for a championship contender.

The problem always becomes is you have to compare these 2 teams to the Spurs. What have they done to stop them. They've done nothing. Suns have added Raja Bell is a slight upgrade defensively, but they still can't stop the Spurs on O and the Spurs really aren't that great on O. Manu, Parker and Duncan would have no problem with the Mavs either. I'm not saying any other teams in the league have a chance, but the Mavs, and Suns are hardly going to contest the likes of the Spurs and I guess the Pistons and the Heat. I don't think the Suns necessarily took a step into stoping the Spurs. I honestly don't think any team can stop them, but I don't think their moves increased these chances. Removing Q couldn't hurt, but Thomas is over the hill.

How are these changes going to make Marion more effective next year? I have a feeling Bowen will cream puff the guy again if they meet. The reason they lost so many games was definitely Q and Marion's ineffectiveness offensively. Are Raja and Thomas going to stop Manu and Duncan....I'd like to see it. Are Dampier, Dirk and Howard a blip on the radar with the same squad, not really, offensively and defensively.

 

[Kings113]

Actually, for what this is worth, the day or day after of the agreement with Bell, Manu called his agent, who is also the agent of Bell, and told him Raja is one of the players he least likes playing against. Phoenix probably looked into that some on Bell, prior to Manu saying that, and was part of getting Bell, surely. As we all saw, Manu just destroyed the Suns. Hell, Manu got his career high 48 pts in that tremendous OT game at Phoenix from 1/21 on ESPN.

 

[Padrino]

As we all saw, Manu just destroyed the Suns. Hell, Manu got his career high 48 pts in that tremendous OT game at Phoenix from 1/21 on ESPN.

that was a helluva game. one of the best all season.

 

[Kings113]

that was a helluva game. one of the best all season.

My GOTY.

Though never saw that much talked about Detroit/Boston game from February or March, that went 2OT, but it was never on cable/national TV. It looked really great and wild So, didn't get to see it, as I didn't have LP.

 

[uolj]

Never mind the rankings, at least in the TDOS. But just by scanning rosters and looking back at the last year, here is how I would group NBA teams by their "level":

Elite: Spurs, Pacers, Heat and Detroit (Detroit more or less based on their record, although this could be a year when they drop out from the Elite).

Near Elite/Contenders that are just a little bit short: Suns, Dallas and Rockets.

Very Good teams that have very little or no chance in June: Kings, Bulls, Cavs, Wolves, Nets and Denver.

Good teams that might go up or down: Sixers, Wizards, Lakers, Warriors, Sonics (?), Bucks

And then there is the Rest.

My teams to watch, or teams that I suspect could transcend their level: Kings, Wolves, Warriors and Rockets.

I think that's a pretty good look at things.

 

[Bricklayer]

I think that's a pretty good look at things.

I think we're better than most of the other teams "in our category", or at least potentially better. But best to leave us down there until we prove we have a clue what it takes to win the big ones. Took the old team years to figure that out. Time we don't really have this time around with all of our main guys headed toward 30.

 

[bozzwell]

I think we're better than most of the other teams "in our category", or at least potentially better. But best to leave us down there until we prove we have a clue what it takes to win the big ones. Took the old team years to figure that out. Time we don't really have this time around with all of our main guys headed toward 30.

True. I can imagine a scenario that believe is very plausible, where we quickly jump a level (or switch places with a team from that group that declines). For example:

- If Bonzi is as much of defensive improvement over Cat as I think he is, our team defense will be much better too. There will be only Bibby to help out and Brad's flat-feet will be less challenged/exposed by players driving to the hoop. (Side note: I think that GP quote in that interview where he said "...you can't start asking for help on defense as soon as you cross the half-court line" or similar, was aimed at Cat more then at Bibby).

- If SAR and Bibby settle quickly into a routine that is very familiar to Bibby, they will not be nowhere as good as Webb and Bibby, but it will be much easier for Bibby and he may be able to step it up as we all know he is capable of. If he really gets carried away, he might start playing D.

- If Brad stays healthy.

- If Pedja rediscovers his comfort zone as a shooter-cutter his 20+ points a game will go towards the bases on which we can build and he will not be exposed as a flawed/fools gold at No1 option.

The question than becomes are we going to be decent enough on D and on the boards to "transcend" our status.

 

[uolj]

You beat me to it. I was also going to say the Kings could easily jump to the next level or switch with a team above. I actually think that is more likely than the Kings slipping. In the Adelman era the Kings have rarely underachieved. Unfortunately, they have also rarely overachieved, so we'll see.

 

[SoupIsGood]

True, but that is really the only method we currently have and until we actually see these two teams play we still have no idea how good either will be. Will the Kings gel quickly and turn into an offensive juggernaut again? Will the team defense improve or still give up as many points as they score? What other moves will GP make? Will the Pacers pull a Minnesota and implode or a Phoenix and make large gains in their record? NOBODY (at this point) KNOWS. The only thing you can go by is recent head to head matchups, and with a large turnover of personnel, that is a risky proposition as well. There is also no reason to assume that even with the turnover the Kings experienced that they are going to be that much worse than the Pacers when everyone seems to agree that the Kings imoproved themselves in the off-season. Again, nobody knows, so this is all pretty pointless. I do know that RA, with the teams he had over the past 3 years (including an injured Webber), have beaten the Pacers every time they played. That is all we have to go on at this point.

If the Pacers were going to implode, it would have been last season. They were missing 5+ players on average each game, and still had a 40+ win season, taking Detroit to 6 games.

 

[SoupIsGood]

Never mind the rankings, at least in the TDOS. But just by scanning rosters and looking back at the last year, here is how I would group NBA teams by their "level":

Elite: Spurs, Pacers, Heat and Detroit (Detroit more or less based on their record, although this could be a year when they drop out from the Elite).

Near Elite/Contenders that are just a little bit short: Suns, Dallas and Rockets.

Very Good teams that have very little or no chance in June: Kings, Bulls, Cavs, Wolves, Nets and Denver.

Good teams that might go up or down: Sixers, Wizards, Lakers, Warriors, Sonics (?), Bucks

And then there is the Rest.

My teams to watch, or teams that I suspect could transcend their level: Kings, Wolves, Warriors and Rockets.

I really likes this way of looking at things.

I'd bump the Kings up another notch, however.

 

[BibityBobtyBoom]

i wouldn't put the pacers in elite, because losing reggie is gonna be hard for them to overcome. He was the face of the pacers, the still have a really good team but i think they should be in your 2nd level thing. And i fell the kings are better than the rockets now. Stromile is a good pick up but they still have no definite pg on the team.

 

[captain bill]

Right now the Kings and Suns are going to be the wildcards, maybe the Lakers if PJ can really do something big for them, but I don't think so. Kings could be very good this year, but they are completely unproven as of now so I don't like any ratings. And the offseason isn't even over yet.

 

[jay dubb]

The Rockets are old so they are not a threat to me. Kings are going to go into the Toyota Center on Nov.2 and beat them in their home opener.