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Gruden's a good coach who saw all his talent let go in Tampa Bay and was made into a scapegoat. He could probably get any pro gig he wants down the road but I've heard rumors that ESPN thinks he is the next John Madden and is going to do everything they can to keep him in the broadcast booth.
USC tried to go after Fisher years ago - I think the AD is still the same guy so it wouldn't surprise me. I also don't buy the whole "Fisher is a great coach" This is the same guy who kept Collins in as his team crashed and burned, and refused to hand the reins over to his 2000 yds rusher and the ONLY QB that could spark life in that team. It took the owner ffs to get it rolling. Break down each one of his years in Tennesse and you'll see what I mean. Solid, smart guy sure. Great coach? Not so much. Maybe just a personal opinion I guess.
How bout Carroll weaseling out? What a douche... one bad year, program under review and he bolts. ESPN reported that during the weekend, the recruits that commited to USC were franctically calling the coaches to find out what's going on,and apparently they were not even given the courtesy of a call back. I understand now knowing whether you're staying or going, but to use your name to convince them to come and then just abandon them? Bush leauge.
I'm not sure I agree with your take on Carroll, if the boosters are the ones corrupting the program - which it appears pretty likely given that it is school wide and not just football and basketball - he is wise to get out now and not wind up like Tim Floyd. It sucks for recruits but that's just how it is, it happens every year. Coaches move on. USC's basketball program was decent enough to release their recruits and they were free to play at other programs this year after Floyd resigned in disgrace so I'm sure the football program will too, especially since odds are more than a few are tainted.
I'd rank Fisher in the upper tier of coaches but not top 5. I'm not sure how he could have handled the QB controversy much different, Young had been playing awful and Kerry Collins lead them to the division title last year. He gave him 5 games and made a change. It seems too easy to use hindsight here.
I'd rank Fisher in the upper tier of coaches but not top 5. I'm not sure how he could have handled the QB controversy much different, Young had been playing awful and Kerry Collins lead them to the division title last year. He gave him 5 games and made a change. It seems too easy to use hindsight here.
I agree about using hindsight, but I said look at his whole career. You and I both know Collins was not the reason that team went 13-3. Their defense was superb, they were physical and had Chris Johnson. Collins looked ****ing awful, just terrible. And it's not Fisher that made the change, it was the owner. Not like he made this astute move.
About Carroll. The university needs him NOW more than ever. He's a good coach, probably as good as that University will get, he had the name, the success under his name. If the school is going to get sanctioned, that means it will be more difficult, not easier, to get players and to build a successful program - now is when he should have put forth the effort. I think he believed that he needs to cash in while he's still hot, he worried about his legacy and bolted. The way he did it too was pretty ****ty. Not telling his players and just bolting. I hate dishonesty, hate weasels. I'm probably still bitter that Mora was only given one year, but that's apples and oranges. I'll be the first to apologize and admit I was wrong, but man this just stank.
About Carroll. The university needs him NOW more than ever. He's a good coach, probably as good as that University will get, he had the name, the success under his name. If the school is going to get sanctioned, that means it will be more difficult, not easier, to get players and to build a successful program - now is when he should have put forth the effort. I think he believed that he needs to cash in while he's still hot, he worried about his legacy and bolted. The way he did it too was pretty ****ty. Not telling his players and just bolting. I hate dishonesty, hate weasels. I'm probably still bitter that Mora was only given one year, but that's apples and oranges. I'll be the first to apologize and admit I was wrong, but man this just stank.
I think Jeff Fisher is overrated. The way the team came to life this season probably saved his job, because after that 59-0 beating against the Pats, his seat was the hottest it's been since he's been there.
I don't buy the whole "he should stay for his recruits" thing. They don't stay for him. Their commitment is to the school, not the coach. It sucks, because the reason the university sends the head coach on recruiting trips is because the players want to play for a big name coach like Pete Carroll, but they have no guarantee that the coach is going to stay there. Hell, the coach could get fired, or have to take a leave of absence like Urban Meyer. You don't sign with the coach; you sign with the university.
And when you think about it, this story just broke on Friday. I know the recruits would have been anxious to know what the situation was, but it's only been a couple of days. We don't even know if he had gotten all his terms right with the Seahawks, or if he had tendered his resignation yet. Before you start calling recruits, you have to get all your stuff together. They'll be alright after waiting 48-72 hours.
That's the black and white of it. Now, I understand what you're saying, and I understand why players and their families would get upset in this situation. I'd be upset, too. But Pete Carroll has to do what makes the most sense for him. I don't think that makes him a bad person. He's been there for nine years, so it's not like he just used USC as a stepping stone to a better job. He's not jumping around every two years. He built the program into a winner, and this is not him deciding to leave after a bad year. All indications are that next year would be better than this year was. They lost four conference games for the first time in who knows how long. That wasn't going to happen again. They haven't lost a game out of conference since the Rose Bowl against Texas. Pete Carroll did a lot for USC, and if they play their cards right (and if the NCAA doesn't tie their hands too severely) they can remain a contender in the Pac-10.
The reason -- I think -- Pete Carroll is leaving, and the reason I would be leaving if I were him, is that it's too hard to maintain a powerhouse college football program. It's hard enough to build it, but then you have to rebuild it every two years? He lost half his defense and his quarterback last season. He's losing more star players this year. He loses coordinators and position coaches to other college programs (Sarkissian) and even NFL teams (Kiffen, Chow). His program gets looted every year. Now free agency in the NFL is going to cost you players, and the best coaches lose assistants all the time, but you have an opportunity to build a core and keep it largely in tact for a considerable period of time. In college, you have a complete turnover once every four years.
Another thing to consider is that the NFL is quickly becoming a young man's league. The hottest coaches in the NFL are under 50. Even the most prolific coaches are hitting their primes in their early 50s, and then falling off after that. You have to put in 16 hours a day, you have to travel all across the country, you don't spend as much time with your family. I know college coaches work hard, too, but the NFL is a different level, and has become a year round league from a fan's standpoint. Pete Carroll is 58. He's always said that he has unfinished business in the pros, but that he wanted to do it his way. This is probably his last chance to go to the NFL and have complete control. Over the years, he's turned down several high profile gigs because it wasn't the right fit, so it's not like he was just itching to get back in no matter what and was going to abandon USC as soon as he got the chance. Things just happened to come together perfectly, and he would have been a fool to walk away from it. It's his career. I think it's unfair and hypocritical to criticize someone for deciding to advance his career.
I agree that Collins isn't anything special but Vince Young was a turd when he last played. Collins may not have been the reason they were 13-3 but the defense was pretty much the same until this year and they were a better team under Collins last year than Vince the year before. If you know how I like football, even college football, you know I prefer a traditional pocket passer and loathe run-first QBs. So maybe I'm biased against VY, but I can't fault Fisher. Let me also say that he coaches his players to play dirty and I can't stand his teams and really don't like the guy but I still think he is a top 10 coach, at least of those who are active. But that has as much to do with there being about 15 godawful coaches presently active as him being "great".
I don't really understand why you think Carroll owes USC if the school itself is dirty, which it appears they are rotten to the core. There are rotten coaches and there are rotten programs. If Carroll doesn't fancy himself as a dirty coach it is good to get out while the house of cards is standing. You can't remove that taint once its there.
I don't really understand why you think Carroll owes USC if the school itself is dirty, which it appears they are rotten to the core. There are rotten coaches and there are rotten programs. If Carroll doesn't fancy himself as a dirty coach it is good to get out while the house of cards is standing. You can't remove that taint once its there.
While I agree about VY being a turd when he last played (his head wasn't on straight either), the team was 0-5 and Collins was playing like the second coming of Leaf. I don't like Fisher because it took too long to deviate from what wasn't working. It's not blind faith, it's lunacy. The would have been better off with Supes @ QB. At least he'd hand off to Johnson on every play and get something out of it. But, point taken. It's not like he had Payton on the bench...
On the Carroll subject. Supes has made me think about this with his post, and I do think I was too harsh. However, some things to consider in refute to your post. If you take a job as a college coach, you have to live with the expectations. You are coaching kids and young men. You cannot now use the excuse that your players are leaving. What, they weren't 9 years ago when he first took the job? It's not like this season they decided that players and coaches can leave whenever they want, Carroll realized it and got the **** out of dodge. It's been like this since he took over. He made them a powerhouse before when all the good players left, what's different now? Oh yea, the scandal. If he is clean and he has nothing to hide, why not just say that he doesn't want to be associated with this? Publicly, instead of not saying anything until he took the job. I understand you don't talk until you're sure, but you are a COLLEGE coach and you have a RESPONSIBILITY to the KIDS that have signed on to play for you. Yes, Supes is right you sign on for the university - but you are insulting my intelligence and yours if you assume that players are not swayed by coaches. You're telling me that if JoePa came in you'd treat him like JoeSchmoe the equipment manager from Penn St? Come on man. Your points are good, I'll give you that, but Carroll left this program when it needs him the most. It's not his fault, but I think he saw that more hard work would have to be put in and he didn't want to do it. I can't blame him for that, he gave his all for 9 years. But to say that he had no responsibility to the players is just wrong. THe college game has been the same forever. Your reasons for him leaving just do not make sense unless he was blissfully unaware of them until the weekend.
On the Carroll subject. Supes has made me think about this with his post, and I do think I was too harsh. However, some things to consider in refute to your post. If you take a job as a college coach, you have to live with the expectations. You are coaching kids and young men. You cannot now use the excuse that your players are leaving. What, they weren't 9 years ago when he first took the job? It's not like this season they decided that players and coaches can leave whenever they want, Carroll realized it and got the **** out of dodge. It's been like this since he took over. He made them a powerhouse before when all the good players left, what's different now? Oh yea, the scandal. If he is clean and he has nothing to hide, why not just say that he doesn't want to be associated with this? Publicly, instead of not saying anything until he took the job. I understand you don't talk until you're sure, but you are a COLLEGE coach and you have a RESPONSIBILITY to the KIDS that have signed on to play for you. Yes, Supes is right you sign on for the university - but you are insulting my intelligence and yours if you assume that players are not swayed by coaches. You're telling me that if JoePa came in you'd treat him like JoeSchmoe the equipment manager from Penn St? Come on man. Your points are good, I'll give you that, but Carroll left this program when it needs him the most. It's not his fault, but I think he saw that more hard work would have to be put in and he didn't want to do it. I can't blame him for that, he gave his all for 9 years. But to say that he had no responsibility to the players is just wrong. THe college game has been the same forever. Your reasons for him leaving just do not make sense unless he was blissfully unaware of them until the weekend.
Watch it. I'm a gunslinger, buddy. You can't tell?
I acknowledged that kids sign with USC because they want to play for Pete Carroll. That's obvious; that's why he does the recruiting, and not the AD. But Pete's responsibility is to himself before it's to his recruits, and I'm sure the letters of intent don't carry any guarantee that Pete Carroll will be the head coach. And if Pete Carroll is sitting in your living room telling you to come play for him at USC, it's only your fault if you don't recognize the possibility that he might leave for the NFL. It's Pete F. Carroll. His name has been associated with half a dozen high level NFL jobs in the last five years. In fact, I bet the recruits ask him about that; I would. And if he told me that he was 100% never leaving, I still wouldn't believe it. Things change and we never know what tomorrow may bring. But I bet he never says that he's 100% not leaving USC. You, as a recruit, have to recognize that he might not stay. We're not talking about Mack Brown or Joe Pa or some other lifetime college coach. Pete Carroll is an NFL guy and everyone knows that he wanted to go back.
Not that he didn't enjoy USC, and if there were something that he could do to help them remain a powerhouse he would. I submit that he has, for the last nine years, as a matter of fact. But he doesn't owe his life to them. They may need him the most right now, but I'll just say that it sucks for USC that the perfect NFL opportunity just opened up. This NCAA investigation has been going on for several years now; Pete Carroll didn't wake up Friday morning and just come to the realization that the hammer was getting ready to drop. And I don't think anyone is going to point the finger at him for whatever violations there were/have been.
And about his program deteriorating before his eyes, if you look at the hits his staff and roster have taken in the last two years, they've been more extreme and debilitating than ever before. It's not that he couldn't rebuild it; he has already. Matt Barkley is going to be better next season, the run game will be back, the defensive replacements will have another year under their belts, and if Pete Carroll had stayed, they would have been the preseason favorite to win the conference. I'm not saying that everything was coming apart. I'm saying that having to rebuild your program every two years take a toll, and if you're going to work that hard to be the best, you might as well do it at the highest level. And with the Seahawks calling and offering him total control, which is a first for him (the Chargers wouldn't give him total control, neither would the Dolphins), it was the perfect opportunity before he gets too old to go finish writing his book in the NFL.
I think there's a chance Carroll may not have been aware how deep the violations ran or how far USC would go to cut them off at the pass and attempt to keep the football program looking clean, which I think is only going to put a bigger microscope on them. My only real basis for this though is that I don't think Seattle is a good job at all, especially for Pete who I think struggles with lesser talent. The only plus I can think of is that its the weakest division in the weaker conference and that 9-7 frequently wins it and they just fired a coach rather quickly and probably will be hesitant to do that again.
ESPN: Lane Kiffen to USC
Tennessee's Lane Kiffin has agreed in principle to become the next head coach at Southern California, sources close to the situation told ESPN.com's Chris Low on Tuesday.
Kiffin would replace Pete Carroll, who jumped to the NFL as coach of the Seattle Seahawks.
Kiffin, the former Oakland Raiders coach, led the Volunteers for only one season.
Sources told ESPN Kiffin will bring his father and defensive coordinator, Monte Kiffin, and assistant head coach and recruiting coordinator Ed Orgeron to Southern Cal with him, and wide receivers coach Kippy Brown will be named interim head coach at Tennessee.
Kiffin has been on the move of late. He was 7-5 in his one season at Tennessee and 5-15 in one-plus seasons with the Raiders before being fired in September 2008.
He was a member of the USC coaching staff from 2001-06.
...
Tailback Allen Bradford and Barkley were among the leaders who called a team meeting before the offseason conditioning program began Tuesday, while receiver Brice Butler and Barkley planned to call all of USC's prospective recruits to urge them to stick with the Trojans.
I would just tell them what my dad told me: 'Don't commit because of a coach, because that can change,'" said Butler, who came to USC from Georgia. "You've got to commit because of a program, and this is USC."
Kiffin would replace Pete Carroll, who jumped to the NFL as coach of the Seattle Seahawks.
Kiffin, the former Oakland Raiders coach, led the Volunteers for only one season.
Sources told ESPN Kiffin will bring his father and defensive coordinator, Monte Kiffin, and assistant head coach and recruiting coordinator Ed Orgeron to Southern Cal with him, and wide receivers coach Kippy Brown will be named interim head coach at Tennessee.
Kiffin has been on the move of late. He was 7-5 in his one season at Tennessee and 5-15 in one-plus seasons with the Raiders before being fired in September 2008.
He was a member of the USC coaching staff from 2001-06.
...
Tailback Allen Bradford and Barkley were among the leaders who called a team meeting before the offseason conditioning program began Tuesday, while receiver Brice Butler and Barkley planned to call all of USC's prospective recruits to urge them to stick with the Trojans.
I would just tell them what my dad told me: 'Don't commit because of a coach, because that can change,'" said Butler, who came to USC from Georgia. "You've got to commit because of a program, and this is USC."
I thought he'd be a top candidate, but didn't really think that would happen after just one year with the Vols. I'm pretty surprised.
Interesting, interesting, interesting.
My USC fan friends think this is the greatest thing ever. They will have talent for a while since this was a rebuilding year but I wonder how long it will last. I'm still convinced major sanctions are going to come down on the program and I have questions about Orgeron... somehow I doubt you get to be known as the "best recruiter ever" by playing it straight. But I'm a cynic.
Yeah, that's kind of the concern here in SoCal. There are two lines of thought though. The first is that there are major hits coming, and Orgeron and Kiffin and those guys are hardly the kind of guys who are going to make the NCAA feel good about USC's recruiting practices.
The second is that Pete Carroll would warn these guys that he's so close to of any impending hits, so either he's not aware of anything or it's not going to be as bad as people seem to think it will be. I think worse case scenario would be some scholarships, and even if there's some retroactive punishments, like vacated wins or something, everyone knows what really happened in those years, and it doesn't really affect the new regime. Besides, all the allegations, so far, are specific to the players and their families, not the recruiters or the football program.
I think Lane Kiffin is the kind of guy, on reputation, who can keep SC's recruits on the boat, and bringing back Norm Chow is really the piece that makes this deal a good one, as far as football is concerned. If they bring him in, the Trojans have the most impressive coaching staff in college sports, period. That's good for recruiting, right there, and Matt Barkley is quite taken with Norm Chow from previous passing camps and such, so he's the cherry on top.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Patrot Superbowl staff reassembling
Romeo Crennel to be New Chiefs Defensive Coordinator
Apparently the Chiefs are really really intent on becoming the Patroits. Pretty soon, they'll be changing their colors.
Romeo Crennel to be New Chiefs Defensive Coordinator
Apparently the Chiefs are really really intent on becoming the Patroits. Pretty soon, they'll be changing their colors.
Knew that was coming, still irritates me as the Pats coordinators aren't cutting the mustard and it would have been nice to get RAC back. Oh well.
I think that is a given. All that abuse early in his career has come back in a big way, he should probably consider hanging it up.
Assuming 2010 is uncapped, it won't matter if they have cap space. They weren't one of the final four teams left, so they can pursue free agents, but they will have restrictions. Not sure exactly what they are. The Chargers don't get a signing exception if they release Tomlinson, but with all the other players they have that are set for unrestricted free agency, I'm sure they'll lose some of them and earn exceptions.
Too bad the Chargers didn't keep Michael Turner two years ago. Just one of those things...
You don't think he could play a Corey Dillon like role for a contender? Maybe not as many carries as Dillon got for the Pats, but still he could be a guy who takes 10-15 hard carries a game, keeping defenses honest. I know you probably don't like him for the Pats, considering some of the things he's said about Belichick and other guys there, but he would be a good fit for your team. It won't happen because of the bad blood.
I think he is more Fred Taylor at this point. His last good season was probably 3 years ago, but I'm going off memory. Many have suggested he'd be a great fit with the Pats but yeah, bad blood, not happening. And frankly he's never shown up in the big games, but to be fair most of the big games came after his career peaked.
Agreed on Turner, the writing was on the wall but sentimentality got the better of them I suppose.
Agreed on Turner, the writing was on the wall but sentimentality got the better of them I suppose.
SacKings7
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Yeah it's too bad about Turner. But at this point Sproles was the #3 back, which isn't a bad option to fall back on to be a #2. I'd love Turner back on the Chargers, but whatever, the past is the past. Wouldn't mind havin Brees back either. I just hope A.J. can find a nice back to replace LT, and maybe an upgrade on defense, though the defense is actually above average, just dealt with injuries all year. Any good free agent running backs this offseason?
I don't know about RBs, I wouldn't spend too much money of one in free agency unless it was an underused guy looking to become the featured back a la Turner. The lifespan of RBs these days is in the toilet.
What about Merriman, is he done in SD too?
What about Merriman, is he done in SD too?
What is Merriman's value, period? I mean, I don't see him garnering a lot of attention in free agency, not as an every down linebacker. If a 3-4 team needs a rusher, he'd be fine, but that's not going to pay him what he wants to be paid. Plus, there's all the side show stuff that he's been involved with in the last three years or so, being suspended for PEDs, then the assault accusations... He's probably not going to get a lot of money anywhere. But I think he'd be a good fit for the 49ers, on the field, anyway. Singletary might not want to deal with that kind of "character", but they need a stand up pass rusher.
And as far as running backs go, the Chargers have been getting by for two years with less of a running game than they used to have. When you have a top five or so quarterback, and receivers who are good in the middle of the field and in the flats, not to mention a prolific pass catching tight end, your running game becomes a little less important. Look at the Colts. Of course, you prefer to be more balanced, but if necessary, you can get by with an average running game. Norv Turner wants to have a pass heavy offense, Phillip Rivers wants to throw the ball, and those two seem to be a match made in heaven, so even if you go RB by committee with three unknown, unproven backs, you'll be alright. The NFL anymore isn't a running back-driven, pound it up the middle league.
And as far as running backs go, the Chargers have been getting by for two years with less of a running game than they used to have. When you have a top five or so quarterback, and receivers who are good in the middle of the field and in the flats, not to mention a prolific pass catching tight end, your running game becomes a little less important. Look at the Colts. Of course, you prefer to be more balanced, but if necessary, you can get by with an average running game. Norv Turner wants to have a pass heavy offense, Phillip Rivers wants to throw the ball, and those two seem to be a match made in heaven, so even if you go RB by committee with three unknown, unproven backs, you'll be alright. The NFL anymore isn't a running back-driven, pound it up the middle league.
SacKings7
Starter
Yeah, Merriman is likely done in San Diego too. Which is fine by me. The last 2 years or so, he wasn't even the best Chargers linebacker named Shaun.
I know having a proven RB isn't required when you have Rivers throwing the ball so much (and effectively), but I just don't want to see Sproles as #1. He should stick to returns, and spot carries. I like what I've seen from Jacob Hester, but I don't think he's gonna pull a Michael Turner
I know having a proven RB isn't required when you have Rivers throwing the ball so much (and effectively), but I just don't want to see Sproles as #1. He should stick to returns, and spot carries. I like what I've seen from Jacob Hester, but I don't think he's gonna pull a Michael Turner
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