El Paljasso
Bench
what question?
question on that last shot
- Thread starter hanchiho
- Start date
El Paljasso
Bench
how can you not see it
Folsom Al
Starter
How's This ???
Key word/words being used: THE BALL (to me that means ANY PART/AMOUNT)
http://www.basketball.com/nba/rules/rule11.shtml
Dave McNulla said:
Key word/words being used: THE BALL (to me that means ANY PART/AMOUNT)
http://www.basketball.com/nba/rules/rule11.shtml
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Ryle said:
Three point shot vs. layup/dunk, gotta go for the layup/dunk there. You would have expected even Brad to hit 90% from that spot on the floor. Near guaranteed OT. Near.
Dave McNulla
Bench
if it's your interpretation, then say it. there's no shame in having an opinion. mine is different. i think it should be if the verticle center of the ball if over the any part of the cylinder or if the ball is moving downwards toward the cylinder (some part above the rim). but it looks to me like the rule is saying within, which to me means all inside.Folsom Al said:
the pics are good, but they two angles. the clip posted shows a third angle. that angle appears that the ball is not over the rim. since this is a three dimensional world, if from any angle the ball is not over the rim, then it's not over the rim. it's like hollywood punches. it looks from the camera angle like someone is getter punched, but from a different angle there is space. just my opinion.
bigbadred00
Starter
idk i think it's possible to say any way. you can't be 100% certain with any of those camera angles. ah.......
ol' B-52 shoulda banked it off the glass or as mentioned before, thrown it down like a big man. but i dont think miller can palm the ball which is why he is unable to shoot a one handed hook shot,(the most important move for a center). i think he has the dreaded small hand/foot disease, cause his size 7.5 feet dont seem to support his country boy frame either. ive never seen any player on the floor 10 times a game like brad.....and its not just cause hes hustli'n,...he just cant stay on his feet. kings strength and conditioning coach needs to work on his legs ,...that would probly help him stay upright.
Folsom Al
Starter
I'm Done With This ...
What does the following mean to you ... THE BALL ... ???
http://www.basketball.com/nba/rules/rule11.shtml
Are you trying to SPLIT HAIRS ??? Give me a break .... ie ...
The SUN means ... THE SUN ... not just the top
The CAR means ... THE CAR ... not just the door
The DOG means ... THE DOG ... not just a paw
so, logically ... THE BALL means ... THE BALL
So, anyway .... I'm done with this .... King's lost anyway and we've got the Sonics tomorrow ..... time to move on.
Dave McNulla said:
What does the following mean to you ... THE BALL ... ???
http://www.basketball.com/nba/rules/rule11.shtml
Are you trying to SPLIT HAIRS ??? Give me a break .... ie ...
The SUN means ... THE SUN ... not just the top
The CAR means ... THE CAR ... not just the door
The DOG means ... THE DOG ... not just a paw
so, logically ... THE BALL means ... THE BALL
So, anyway .... I'm done with this .... King's lost anyway and we've got the Sonics tomorrow ..... time to move on.
Ryle
Starter
I reviewed the video and the pictures and from where Brad was standing(basically right under the basket) the only way for him to block that shot would be to have AT LEAST a portion of the ball in the cylinder and therefore it was goaltending.
With that said, the Kings missed 2 point blank layups during the game and Bibby missed 2 free throws and if my math is correct that's 6 points and the Kings lost by 2. My point is that it shouldn't have come down to this and it's a shame.
By the way, this is pretty clear:
c. Touch the ball when it is above the basket ring and touching the imaginary cylinder.
With that said, the Kings missed 2 point blank layups during the game and Bibby missed 2 free throws and if my math is correct that's 6 points and the Kings lost by 2. My point is that it shouldn't have come down to this and it's a shame.
By the way, this is pretty clear:
c. Touch the ball when it is above the basket ring and touching the imaginary cylinder.
nAj jAn™
Bench
I think Dave meant to say that the ball is still going up, even the ball is like above the cylinder....
I don't know, but I think it was not goaltending, 'coz the ball is still going up... If the ball is way going down, now that's goaltending....I can't clearly see the ball, it's too fast, and the camera angle is confusing, there should be a clear replay of this scenario....
I don't know, but I think it was not goaltending, 'coz the ball is still going up... If the ball is way going down, now that's goaltending....I can't clearly see the ball, it's too fast, and the camera angle is confusing, there should be a clear replay of this scenario....
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
nAj jAn™ said:
No, those are separate rules -- upward/downward flight and cylinder rules. Actually, logically it would be extraordinarily difficult for the ball to still be going up while it was over the cylinder unless you were going to miss it so badly as to almost toss it over the basket entirely.
Brad was directly under the basket, leaned back, jumped and was placing the ball in the basket with both hands and the ball roughly 2/3 directly above the center of the basket when the ball was swiped away by Stoudimire. Brad couldn't dunk it from that angle. It was definately in the cylinder and goaltending. Yes, the Kings squandered many opportunities to win the game as did the Suns, nothing unusual about that. What is unusual is the officials not doing their job...they didn't even confer to see what each of them saw or didn't see. Very unprofessional.
Folsom Al
Starter
Please read rule C
Section I-A Player Shall Not:
a. Touch the ball or the basket ring when the ball is on or within either basket.
b. Touch the ball when it is touching the cylinder having the basket ring as its lower base.
EXCEPTION: In (a) or (b) above if a player near his own basket has his hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder, or if, in such action, he touches the basket.
c. Touch the ball when it is above the basket ring and touching the imaginary cylinder.
d. Touch the ball when it is on its downward flight during a field goal attempt, while the entire ball is above the basket ring level and before the ball has touched the basket ring or the attempt has ended.
e. For goaltending to occur, the ball, in the judgment of the official, must have a chance to score.
f. During a field goal attempt, touch a ball after it has touched any part of the backboard above ring level, whether the ball is considered on its upward or downward flight. The offensive player must have caused the ball to touch the backboard.
g. During a field goal attempt, touch a ball after it has touched the backboard below the ring level and while the ball is on its upward flight.
h. Trap the ball against the face of the backboard. (To be a trapped ball, three elements must exist simultaneously. The hand, the ball and the backboard must all occur at the same time. A batted ball against the backboard is not a trapped ball.)
i. Touch any I' e ball from within the playing area that is on its downward flight with an opportunity to touch the basket ring. This is considered to be a "field goal attempt" or trying for a goal (except a "tap" from a jump ball situation).
j. Touch the ball at any time with a hand which is through the basket ring.
PENALTY: If violation is at the opponent's basket, the offended team is awarded two points if the attempt is from the two point zone and three points if it is from the three point zone. The crediting of the score and subsequent procedure is the same as if the awarded score has resulted from the ball having gone through the basket, except that the official shall hand the ball to a player of the team entitled to the throw-in. If the violation is at a team's own basket, no points can be scored and the ball is awarded to the offended team at the out-of-bounds spot on the side at either end of the free throw line extended. If there is a violation by both teams, play shall be resumed by a jump ball between any two opponents at the center circle.
* * * * *
No wording/indication of THE BALL going up/down in the ruling at all in RULE C
a. Touch the ball or the basket ring when the ball is on or within either basket.
b. Touch the ball when it is touching the cylinder having the basket ring as its lower base.
EXCEPTION: In (a) or (b) above if a player near his own basket has his hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder, or if, in such action, he touches the basket.
c. Touch the ball when it is above the basket ring and touching the imaginary cylinder.
d. Touch the ball when it is on its downward flight during a field goal attempt, while the entire ball is above the basket ring level and before the ball has touched the basket ring or the attempt has ended.
e. For goaltending to occur, the ball, in the judgment of the official, must have a chance to score.
f. During a field goal attempt, touch a ball after it has touched any part of the backboard above ring level, whether the ball is considered on its upward or downward flight. The offensive player must have caused the ball to touch the backboard.
g. During a field goal attempt, touch a ball after it has touched the backboard below the ring level and while the ball is on its upward flight.
h. Trap the ball against the face of the backboard. (To be a trapped ball, three elements must exist simultaneously. The hand, the ball and the backboard must all occur at the same time. A batted ball against the backboard is not a trapped ball.)
i. Touch any I' e ball from within the playing area that is on its downward flight with an opportunity to touch the basket ring. This is considered to be a "field goal attempt" or trying for a goal (except a "tap" from a jump ball situation).
j. Touch the ball at any time with a hand which is through the basket ring.
PENALTY: If violation is at the opponent's basket, the offended team is awarded two points if the attempt is from the two point zone and three points if it is from the three point zone. The crediting of the score and subsequent procedure is the same as if the awarded score has resulted from the ball having gone through the basket, except that the official shall hand the ball to a player of the team entitled to the throw-in. If the violation is at a team's own basket, no points can be scored and the ball is awarded to the offended team at the out-of-bounds spot on the side at either end of the free throw line extended. If there is a violation by both teams, play shall be resumed by a jump ball between any two opponents at the center circle.
* * * * *
No wording/indication of THE BALL going up/down in the ruling at all in RULE C
Shouldn't have come down to this
Exactly what I was going to say. When the game gets down to the wire, bad calls can make or break the game for your team. Sac should have been able to keep the lead. Remember that botched 3 on 1 layup? Brad, Mike, and Peja vs. ONE SUNS PLAYER and the Suns got the rebound. If you want to be mad about something, be mad about that. Or be mad about Bibby and Webbers combined 6 missed free throws. These are things that were under the players control. We should be used to refs making bad calls against the Kings. It's a loss. Move on.
Now that we've seen them play twice, I'd feel very comfortable with the Kings playing the Suns in the POs. I still think Sac is a better team.
Ryle said:
Exactly what I was going to say. When the game gets down to the wire, bad calls can make or break the game for your team. Sac should have been able to keep the lead. Remember that botched 3 on 1 layup? Brad, Mike, and Peja vs. ONE SUNS PLAYER and the Suns got the rebound. If you want to be mad about something, be mad about that. Or be mad about Bibby and Webbers combined 6 missed free throws. These are things that were under the players control. We should be used to refs making bad calls against the Kings. It's a loss. Move on.
Now that we've seen them play twice, I'd feel very comfortable with the Kings playing the Suns in the POs. I still think Sac is a better team.
rexb_kings
Bench
El Paljasso said:
wow! looking at the replay makes me think it was a clean block..but those pics at various angles really shows it's a goaltend...bad break for Kings...
almost there but not good enough...Suns game...then not one Kings player not in the All-starts...hopefully this trend won't continue come playoff time...
so close........but.....urghh...
anyway, i played NBA live 04 last night (superstar) and beat the Suns...BMiller had a great game...a lot of blocks too...sorry just have to do something with my bruised heart for the Kings...
Dave McNulla
Bench
my fault, i didn't realize that you had posted a link from a different website with different wording. i was going by what nba.com said.Folsom Al said:
http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_11.html?nav=ArticleList
rule b says: b. Touch the ball when it is above the basket ring and within the imaginary cylinder.
which is right? i don't know.
like i said, in my analysis of the clip, there is no way the ball was over the cylinder based on amare's position and arm direction during the block. it doesn't mean that i am right. but i'd really rather the kings won. i'm not prejudiced toward the suns.
piksi
Hall of Famer
BW is chating live on BSPN.com. He is proving once again what a moron he is.
Here is a quote from his opening statement:
"Just remember to keep your eye on Amare with one second left!"
here is another one about last game
" I had dreams, visions of Brad Miller throwing his headbands! Pure bliss!"
very impartial take as usual
Here is a quote from his opening statement:
"Just remember to keep your eye on Amare with one second left!"
here is another one about last game
" I had dreams, visions of Brad Miller throwing his headbands! Pure bliss!"
very impartial take as usual
Dave McNulla
Bench
that's one way to state it. another way would be that i'm not sure which is right, basketball.com's posting of the nba rules and nba.com's posting of the nba rules. do you know which is right? if so, how?Kingsgurl said:
Abe Frohman
G-League
What a beautiful feed from CWebb. Was a bad no call but Brad's got to flush that thing home.Go Kings.
Ryle
Starter
Kingsgurl said:
That's a main point that I don't think people understand. We are so used to goaltending being called whent the ball is coming down and heading toward the basket. The fact in this case is that even if the ball was still going up it was within the cylinder and that is a foul.
Lamar_Odom
Bench
Bricklayer said:
This statement is so not true.
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