Propose trade of mike BIbby to the Hawks??

another thing Brick. We'd already have 12 players, plus 5 draft picks. we might be able to trade up even more in your scenario. even with some of the harder stuff, like miller for the #5 its one of the best scenarios posted around here
 
JoMama said:
That's really rolling the dice, but I like it.
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Would be a funnish rebuild year too with JWill and Claxton pushing the pace for a bunch of kids who want to run. Then all the enders go away, we likely have a high lottery pick in a year (next year) that is strong in exactly what we would be looking for (PG -- assuming we took Yi and maybe Smith or Splitter this year to shore up the frontcourt, but Hibbert and maybe Thabeet might be there too if we decided to go big), and of course we'd have the money to sign a major free agent to patch up whatever we thoght was our biggest remaining weakness -- hey, I think Okafor and Howard are restricted FAs that year...:p
 
Vlade4GM said:
There's no way in hell Miller nabs us the 5th pick.
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You are consistently stubborn on this point. Miller and the #10. Its Miller and the #10. Two players for one for Danny boy if he figures he can get a guy he likes at #10 rather than reaching for him at #5.

And that's almost a bonus scenario.
 
I dont think we can trade bibby till july 1st right? so unless atl drafts for us then........... dont think this will happen...
 
Bricklayer said:
Would be a funnish rebuild year too with JWill and Claxton pushing the pace for a bunch of kids who want to run. Then all the enders go away, we likely have a high lottery pick in a year (next year) that is strong in exactly what we would be looking for (PG -- assuming we took Yi and maybe Smith or Splitter this year to shore up the frontcourt, but Hibbert and maybe Thabeet might be there too if we decided to go big), and of course we'd have the money to sign a major free agent to patch up whatever we thoght was our biggest remaining weakness -- hey, I think Okafor and Howard are restricted FAs that year...:p
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now you have me drooling
 
vfettke said:
now you have me drooling
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Heh. Well I could virtually guarantee THAT wouldn't happen...but you never know with a lesser player like Emeka I suppose. Think Charlotte would match anything, but maybe if you got truly excessive...
 
Bricklayer said:
You are consistently stubborn on this point. Miller and the #10. Its Miller and the #10. Two players for one for Danny boy if he figures he can get a guy he likes at #10 rather than reaching for him at #5.

And that's almost a bonus scenario.
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I realize that but if they're going to trade down 5 spots the player they're getting with it is going to be something of quality value to them and I don't see them taking Miller on for anything other than a straight up deal for Wally. He's not a contract they're going to want and he's not exactly a low post option, just because he's a center doesn't mean they're going to want him.
 
Vlade4GM said:
I realize that but if they're going to trade down 5 spots the player they're getting with it is going to be something of quality value to them and I don't see them taking Miller on for anything other than a straight up deal for Wally. He's not a contract they're going to want and he's not exactly a low post option, just because he's a center doesn't mean they're going to want him.
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Remember Al Jefferson -- chances are that a center who can stay out of his way in the post may be more valuable than a similar level center who cannot. Much would depend on whether they think he is washed up or not. But in the East, evena resurgence to 12 and 8 makes him a Top 5 center. And Ainge is under some pressure now to turn things around, stat.
 
We cant trade Bibby till july 1st right? so this trade doesnt work.
 
Bricklayer said:
Remember Al Jefferson -- chances are that a center who can stay out of his way in the post may be more valuable than a similar level center who cannot. Much would depend on whether they think he is washed up or not. But in the East, evena resurgence to 12 and 8 makes him a Top 5 center. And Ainge is under some pressure now to turn things around, stat.
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And if he tries to do that with Brad Miller you can be sure beantown will be breaking out their torches and pitchforks.
 
sactownfan said:
We cant trade Bibby till july 1st right? so this trade doesnt work.
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Not sure about that (legitimately do not know). Is he actually untradeable? Or is it just a huge risk because he could use the ETO? If its the latter, then he would have a veto essentially, but could basically waive the ETO/promise not to use it, and it would be on.

And of course, as was mentioned by somebody above, Atlanta could just take a mutually satisfactory player at #11 and then wait two days to make sure the deal would work. Worst case for them they get a guy they kinda like anyway.
 
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Vlade4GM said:
And if he tries to do that with Brad Miller you can be sure beantown will be breaking out their torches and pitchforks.
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They are already outside his office with those pitchforks, and again, if he does not want a PF and likes somebody who is going to be picked later, then there really IS no downside to the deal. Its all upside -- a free player + the pick he wanted anyway. If he doesn't think Brad is washed up of course. Pierce is 30+, he needs help now. Then its just whether he can do better. But do better where he has to give up NOTHING, but a pick that he does not have immedaite use for. None of his precious kids.

He may just decide to cash out with Noah as a center or something. But the vet player + pick for a higher pick is one of the oldest and most common draft day deals on the books.
 
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Bricklayer said:
They are already outside his office wiht those pitchforks, and again, if he doees not want a PF and likes somebody who is going to be picked later, then there really IS no downside to the deal. Its all upside -- a free player + the pickj he wanted anyway. If he doesn;t think Brad is washed up of course., Pierce is going on 31, he needs help now.
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The downside is he is stuck with Brad Miller's contract and also the other players he could get with the 5th.
 
2) If they do nothing more spectacular, call the Bulls up and offer them 2 conditional deals: either a) if Yi is still there at #9, we trade them #10 and Reef in exchange for them holding Yi for us. Or if he's not, then trade them Reef for their two 2nd round picks (I think they are far enough uner the cap to absorb this, but may depend on the qualifying offer to Nocioni). (plausible)
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I read this board about 10 times a day, really, and this is probably the best proposal I have read in the last couple weeks.
 
Bricklayer said:
Claxton's deal...well I certainly don't love it. Represents that class of deal (middling vet aat or above the MLE) that I abhor unless filling a very particular gap. But he's a better playuer than he showed last year, and quite dynamic as New Orleans' 6th man -- of course he mgiht end up starting here for a bit until we found or developed better, but he could have a role even once we were up to speed in a Bobby sort of way. And it still is less than half as big as Mike's deal, so we still shave 7 million off the cap at the end oif next year -- actually $8 mil off the cap, because while Mike's deal goes up, Speedy's does something nifty and goes DOWN. Gets cheaper every year. I want to get #3-#5 somehow, but if the above was the best we could pull, I think it would be a step in the right direction for rebuilding. Significant cap room, disposable fill in vets with enders, and then of course another lottery pick.


And watch this: ;)

Then:

1) Twist Riles' arm a bit and get that #20 and JWill out of him for Ron. (plausible)
2) If they do nothing more spectacular, call the Bulls up and offer them 2 conditional deals: either a) if Yi is still there at #9, we trade them #10 and Reef in exchange for them holding Yi for us. Or if he's not, then trade them Reef for their two 2nd round picks (I think they are far enough uner the cap to absorb this, but may depend on the qualifying offer to Nocioni). (plausible)
3) Call up Ainge, point out he does not have a center, offer him Miller and the #10 for the #5, and see how he reacts. If he agrees, then have him sit on Yi, we take the guy of his choice at #10, and then we trigger the 2 2nd rounder deal with Chicago for Reef. (eh, maybe plausible, even if not, you still have the #10 and Brad, who SOMEBODY must want. ;) )

Who knows, you could come strutting on home with maybe the #5, #11, #20 and two 2nd round picks and boom, it would be an instant rebuild with draft picks and $20+mil of enders (JWill, Wright, Johnson, Ratliff). Of course last time we did that (1990) we screwed up. But we screwed up by drafting like **** that year. This year with the sort of ammo above you could end up with Yi, Jason Smtih AND Thaddeus Young. Or Yi, Young AND Splitter. Or... And that's not to mention Fesenko and whoever as 2nd rounders. Or the huge cap room allowing us to sign a majro free agent, or two, next summer.

Intricate dream scenario, but nothing there is impossible. Ainge is the only one that's a stretch, and maybe not. He's already got a young PF, and could get a help-now center in Brad and a Hawes/Green type guy from our #10.

Holdover Kids
Kevin
Cisco
Douby
Price
Williams

Picks
#5
#11
#20
#49
#51

Non-liquidated salaried vets
Thomas
Claxton
Salmons

Enders
JWill (ending)
Ratliff (ending)
Wright (ending)
Johson (ending)

And there's your 1 yr rebuild roster. Yr 2 will be another lottery pick, and huge caproom for a FA (some would go to resigning Kevin). Then you're off.
Click to expand...

These are all really good ideas.
 
You guys are talking "cleaning house" here. Ain't no way Petrie does that. You end up with all new faces on this team with practically "nobodys" and a good chance of ending up the new "Hawks/Grizzlies team" and really get nowhere for years to come. As so many articles point out, you only end up with 1 loaded draft every 10-15 years. I do like having to at least get 1 more pick like the #11 or #3, but would not go further. I wouldn't get rid of Artest, hot-head and all. Bibby and his baggage contract (and Miller) yes, but Artest being cheaper and younger, not to mention the only player who is an FA magnet who people want to play with, no way.
 
PFFFT!! said:
You guys are talking "cleaning house" here. Ain't no way Petrie does that. You end up with all new faces on this team with practically "nobodys" and a good chance of ending up the new "Hawks/Grizzlies team" and really get nowhere for years to come. As so many articles point out, you only end up with 1 loaded draft every 10-15 years. I do like having to at least get 1 more pick like the #11 or #3, but would not go further. I wouldn't get rid of Artest, hot-head and all. Bibby and his baggage contract (and Miller) yes, but Artest being cheaper and younger, not to mention the only player who is an FA magnet who people want to play with, no way.
Click to expand...
the only people who want to play with Artest are superstars that can keep him in line, namely Garnett and Kobe. there is no way they're coming here, especially if we rebuild. However, we could send Artest to Garnett or Kobe and possibly get something good back
 
PFFFT!! said:
You guys are talking "cleaning house" here. Ain't no way Petrie does that. You end up with all new faces on this team with practically "nobodys" and a good chance of ending up the new "Hawks/Grizzlies team" and really get nowhere for years to come. As so many articles point out, you only end up with 1 loaded draft every 10-15 years. I do like having to at least get 1 more pick like the #11 or #3, but would not go further. I wouldn't get rid of Artest, hot-head and all. Bibby and his baggage contract (and Miller) yes, but Artest being cheaper and younger, not to mention the only player who is an FA magnet who people want to play with, no way.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree. Artest is still the ticking time bomb. Bibby, on the other hand, despite a poor showing this year, is still a team player AND he has attributes like court vision that make him valuable, especially to a team bringing in more youth.

Bibby's contract is not that bad, when you consider he still has legitimate value (unlike Kenny Thomas). If he doesn't opt out this year, which he has said through his agent he is not going to do, we have a year of him and then we face the question again since he had a two-year ETO. If, at the end of next season, we still want to move him there's a better than even chance IMHO his value will have appreciated once more.
 
PFFFT!! said:
You guys are talking "cleaning house" here. Ain't no way Petrie does that. You end up with all new faces on this team with practically "nobodys" and a good chance of ending up the new "Hawks/Grizzlies team" and really get nowhere for years to come. As so many articles point out, you only end up with 1 loaded draft every 10-15 years. I do like having to at least get 1 more pick like the #11 or #3, but would not go further. I wouldn't get rid of Artest, hot-head and all. Bibby and his baggage contract (and Miller) yes, but Artest being cheaper and younger, not to mention the only player who is an FA magnet who people want to play with, no way.
Click to expand...

Yep, we're going to put a huge sign at ARCO:


HOUSKEEPERS WANTED :D
 
PFFFT!! said:
You guys are talking "cleaning house" here. Ain't no way Petrie does that. You end up with all new faces on this team with practically "nobodys" and a good chance of ending up the new "Hawks/Grizzlies team" and really get nowhere for years to come. As so many articles point out, you only end up with 1 loaded draft every 10-15 years. I do like having to at least get 1 more pick like the #11 or #3, but would not go further. I wouldn't get rid of Artest, hot-head and all. Bibby and his baggage contract (and Miller) yes, but Artest being cheaper and younger, not to mention the only player who is an FA magnet who people want to play with, no way.
Click to expand...

weren't the kings of 98 like that? alot of fresh faces.
 
Bricklayer said:
Claxton's deal...well I certainly don't love it. Represents that class of deal (middling vet aat or above the MLE) that I abhor unless filling a very particular gap. But he's a better playuer than he showed last year, and quite dynamic as New Orleans' 6th man -- of course he mgiht end up starting here for a bit until we found or developed better, but he could have a role even once we were up to speed in a Bobby sort of way. And it still is less than half as big as Mike's deal, so we still shave 7 million off the cap at the end oif next year -- actually $8 mil off the cap, because while Mike's deal goes up, Speedy's does something nifty and goes DOWN. Gets cheaper every year. I want to get #3-#5 somehow, but if the above was the best we could pull, I think it would be a step in the right direction for rebuilding. Significant cap room, disposable fill in vets with enders, and then of course another lottery pick.


And watch this: ;)

Then:

1) Twist Riles' arm a bit and get that #20 and JWill out of him for Ron. (plausible)
2) If they do nothing more spectacular, call the Bulls up and offer them 2 conditional deals: either a) if Yi is still there at #9, we trade them #10 and Reef in exchange for them holding Yi for us. Or if he's not, then trade them Reef for their two 2nd round picks (I think they are far enough uner the cap to absorb this, but may depend on the qualifying offer to Nocioni). (plausible)
3) Call up Ainge, point out he does not have a center, offer him Miller and the #10 for the #5, and see how he reacts. If he agrees, then have him sit on Yi, we take the guy of his choice at #10, and then we trigger the 2 2nd rounder deal with Chicago for Reef. (eh, maybe plausible, even if not, you still have the #10 and Brad, who SOMEBODY must want. ;) )

Who knows, you could come strutting on home with maybe the #5, #11, #20 and two 2nd round picks and boom, it would be an instant rebuild with draft picks and $20+mil of enders (JWill, Wright, Johnson, Ratliff). Of course last time we did that (1990) we screwed up. But we screwed up by drafting like **** that year. This year with the sort of ammo above you could end up with Yi, Jason Smtih AND Thaddeus Young. Or Yi, Young AND Splitter. Or... And that's not to mention Fesenko and whoever as 2nd rounders. Or the huge cap room allowing us to sign a majro free agent, or two, next summer.

Intricate dream scenario, but nothing there is impossible. Ainge is the only one that's a stretch, and maybe not. He's already got a young PF, and could get a help-now center in Brad and a Hawes/Green type guy from our #10.

Holdover Kids
Kevin
Cisco
Douby
Price
Williams

Picks
#5
#11
#20
#49
#51

Non-liquidated salaried vets
Thomas
Claxton
Salmons

Enders
JWill (ending)
Ratliff (ending)
Wright (ending)
Johson (ending)

And there's your 1 yr rebuild roster. Yr 2 will be another lottery pick, and huge caproom for a FA (some would go to resigning Kevin). Then you're off.
Click to expand...


LOVE IT! :D someone forward this to petrie ;)
 
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