yes, Barnes caught my eye first due to his size for a SF and his passing but assuming we draft in the 7-8 range either player appears a solid option. I would hope one, maybe both are still available.
Probable Lottery picks in the 2021 Draft:
- Thread starter bajaden
- Start date
twslam07
All-Star
Yeah I’m having a really hard time making up my mind on my big board.
Barnes is interesting. With his size, length, strength, athleticism, playmaking, defense, and fire/motor he reminds me of Giannis. Although I’d say Giannis is bigger, longer, more athletic (which is significant and shouldn’t be overlooked). I think Giannis also showed more of an aptitude for scoring but do you pass on a Giannis-lite player because you think Fox needs to be surrounded with shooters?
Simmons is also another comparison (but he’s on another level playmaking wise than Barnes). Embiid and Simmons seem to be doing just fine and I think you can argue that Embiid is more patient oriented than Fox.
Giannis and Simmons are obviously great talents but Draymond seems like a more realistic goal. I’m sure Draymonds IQ is much better than Barnes but from a size, defense, playmaking, shooting, scoring, and fire/motor standpoint, he seems to have a lot of the ingredients (with maybe less technicals).
I know it’s a very poor mans version of the team, but drafting Barnes makes it hard for me to not draw comparisons to GSW...
Fox = Curry (#1 option / star PG)
Hield = Thompson (sharpshooting SG)
H Barnes = H Barnes (self explanatory)
Halliburton = Iguodala (do it all, high IQ, glue guy
S Barnes = Green (defense, playmaking, versatile, IQ)
...okay back to reality, it would be at least refreshing to move forward with 3 players who seem to have high IQ, high character, are good playmakers, have good defensive potential, and seem to be team players (Fox, Haliburton, S Barnes). Could see that ball zipping around the court.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I think Kuminga has the potential to be Giannis lite. If we end up in 6-9 it’s going to be an incredibly hard call. So much potential in that group wit plenty of question marks
The Effort Police
Starter
Even with a win tonight we're basically locked into 7, maybe 8. Toronto and Washington are winning too much and we ain't catching Cleveland or OKC. The only one to really look at now is Chicago.
It's also possible we drop a spot or 2. 7, 8, or 9 with a small chance of 10.
32% chance of moving into the Top 4. Failing that, I think we have to take Jalen Johnson and hope to god the character concerns are overblown, take Barnes and hope to god he gets a shot, or also just Moody in general.
None of these are perfect, but if they were they wouldn't be there at 7.
It's also possible we drop a spot or 2. 7, 8, or 9 with a small chance of 10.
32% chance of moving into the Top 4. Failing that, I think we have to take Jalen Johnson and hope to god the character concerns are overblown, take Barnes and hope to god he gets a shot, or also just Moody in general.
None of these are perfect, but if they were they wouldn't be there at 7.
Yeah I think the ceiling is closer to Dray for Barnes than it is Simmons or Giannis. But I do think Barnes will have more defensive versatility to take any wing as a perimeter defender, wheras Dray mostly did his defensive damage as a big.
In terms of the fit... who cares? That's a damn good problem to have if Barnes turnes into Draymond and we need to find the right personal around them to make it work. You can find shooting and scoring in FA every off-season. You dont ever find 6'9 playmaking wings that can defend 3 positions. My hope with McNair is he doesn't put the cart before the horse and finds the franchise building blocks and THEN commits the bigger money to role players.
sactowndog
All-Star
From people I have talked to on RealGM they see Barnes more of a help defender than a lock down 1 v 1 defender. If true with his offensive limitations, I don’t see much value in Barnes.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I only caught a couple of his live games this year plus highlights but I just didn’t see the elite defensive player everyone talks about. I thought Wagner looked better on that end. The playmaking from the 4 is pretty intriguing paired with Ty though
sactowndog
All-Star
Yeah in my case I see Ty as a high potential lead guard and don’t really want to take the ball out of his hands. Barnes does not appear to have much value off the ball.
if you want a long defensive stopper Garuba might be the better option.
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sactowndog
All-Star
Remember when we didn't want to take the ball out of Fox's hands?
Yep, but in this case we really aren’t because Hali doesn’t really dominate the ball.
kb02
All-Star
I don’t see Garuba as a plus defender on the wing or interior. He looks like he’s Rui Hachimura, averaged sized four with avg length, who’s well built for his age. More of a 4/3 than a 3/4. Don’t see plus wing defending nor a shot alterer. Good feet though and has a motor. Bags has better feet than him, but his motor is reserved for the rap studio.
sactowndog
All-Star
My understanding is Garuba is plus 6 wingspan. That is hardly average length.....
https://nbadraftroom.com/p/usman-garuba/
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Yeah, he has around a 7'2" wingspan. He's also a very good athlete and he could end up being a better player than Kuminga. He's a little taller, and a little longer. I disagree with you on Barnes (Scottie) though. I think he's a very good on ball defender, but in my humble opinion, being a good help defender is a timing skill that many players don't have. If I have a problem with Barnes on defense, its that he tends to spread himself too thin at times. He's flying all over the court trying to close holes. All he needs is a little more discipline.
As I've previously stated, my only concern with Barnes is his outside shot. If drafted, I'd put him in bed with a shot doctor immediately. I have the same concerns about Keon Johnson who shot a miserable 27% from the three, but there's probably not a more explosive player in the draft. If Johnson can fix his shot, then your looking at a superstar. He still has to tighten up his handles a bit, and improve his decision making at times, but he may be the best athlete in the draft.
A lot of people are overlooking Johnson's running mate at Tennessee, Jaden Springer, who shot 47% from the three and 80% from the free throw line. Not nearly as explosive, but a very good player.
sactowndog
All-Star
Yeah I didn’t see enough of Barnes to have a firm opinion but I have asked a few others. It’s not really our decision regardless. If we don’t get a top 5 pick, I do think we will have in interesting read on McNair’s drafting acumen. This draft is challenging. Hollinger really likes Sengun and says the history of guys doing as well as he is doing in Europe and not doing well in the NBA is rare. He compares the kid to Jokic and he isn’t the only one.
I watch this and think of him and Hali running balls screens and pick and rolls, good lord they could be a treat.
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sactowndog
All-Star
A little more tape on Sengun....
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
He is intriguing offensively but if he is a sieve on defense I’m not sure that helps us win.
sactowndog
All-Star
He isn’t switchable but neither is Jokic or Love who he has been compared to.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
if he is Joker Jr sign me up, I haven’t seen enough of him to get a good read. Is he showing signs of being a plus playmaker/facilitator? His shot looks great but he will also be undersized at the 5.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
I did a deep youtube dive on the listed Euro and outside the US prospects and he was one of the few that stood out. He looks like Papa G to me. Maybe he has what it takes upstairs to utilize those tools unlike Papagiannis.
sactowndog
All-Star
Watch the first vid that shows his passing. Skip passes on the money to open shooters. Fakes a pass to a player cutting down the lane then throws a behind the back pass for an easy lay-up.
Seems to have a really high IQ. If we pick 8-10 as I think he could be a good option. I wish we had traded Barnes to Boston as I would grab Zaire Williams with that pick. Maybe we can still do it.
sactowndog
All-Star
I’m just providing data but I think the PappaG comparison is pretty far off. At this kids age:
PappaG stats:
6.5 ppg. FT% 66.7% assists 11 total
Sengun stats
19.4 ppg FT% .812 assists 69 total
The only equivalency is big strong white guys from the Adriatic.
Logging back in for the sole purpose of talking about this guy (and Josh Giddey in a tic). Based on the recent write ups, his production in Europe, his demeanour, and the very biased highlight/ scouting videos of him available on YouTube, I think he would be great on the Kings. OK - I haven't watched a full game - I don't know what I don't know - but he seems really exciting.
It does sound like it is valid to question his defence. But looking his basic numbers - he rebounds well, he blocks shots, and gets steals. We are one of the worst defensive rebounding teams (something like worst overall defensive rebounding numbers, 4th worst defensive rebounding percentage?). He averages more steals and blocks per 40 than Jokic and Marc Gasol did in Europe. I know a good defence is more than just blocks and steals. But it does seem like he has at least some skills on that end.
On Josh Giddey - I watched a second game of his – where he recorded his first triple double. A few points:
- I think he is a lottery talent. He is easily the best player on his team at age 18. I don’t think a team would be reaching if they selected him in the top 10. While I’m not convinced that he will ever be an All Star – I think he has everything needed to have a very good career.
- Compared to the first game I watched, his team played with more cohesion and got into their sets quicker.
- His first instinct is to set others up, but he can score in a variety of ways. In this game, he scored from beyond the arc, a mid-range pull up off a pick and roll, moving without the ball in the open court, getting to the rim in the half court, and off an offensive board. He did miss some free throws and turn the ball over a bit.
- I don’t think he is as crafty as Tyrese coming off the pick and roll right now. Some of that could be context. And he still reads the game very well and makes extremely good passes from all areas of the court.
- He doesn’t look especially strong right now and is not a high energy player. Although – in fairness to him – the NBL is a physical league – and he seems willing to scrap for loose balls and to play through pain and niggles. He looks stronger than Tyrese.
- He is very upright on defence.
- He is being scouted in person by NBA teams. The commentators mentioned Toronto had a scout in quarantine who was visiting to see JG. Although this doesn’t seem like a big deal – it is not easy to get into Australia right now. There are less flights and any new arrival – regardless of citizenship, vaccination status, or COVID status must quarantine in a hotel room on their own and at their own expense for two weeks before they are let out into the community. Although less frequent right now, we have had states shutting down borders to other states based on outbreaks making it easy to get stuck in a city you don't want to be in. I do not think teams would send scouts if they were not genuinely interested in adding him to their team.
- Although I like him, I don’t think he should be the Kings first choice. Today – from a basketball point of view – his best position is point guard. Physically – although he has good height and could one day play the 3 – he is more suited to a guard role. If he joined the Kings and we wanted him to play the 3 his rookie season would be adjusting to the NBA, learning a new position, and trying to prioritise physical development. It’s a lot to ask. Not saying he couldn’t do it – but given our needs are frontcourt, wing, and defence – and we have a similar-ish guy in Tyrese – it doesn’t seem like a must.
sactowndog
All-Star
yeah but at 6’8” it’s not hard to imagine him at the three. The thing that strikes me is that a good player could be had around 9 where, absent getting lucky, I think we will draft. There are a lot of yes but guys in this draft and some of those “buts” will be resolved. This draft will provide good insight in a couple years how “good” McNair is or isn’t at drafting.
sactowndog
All-Star
Funny Kerr talks about boxing out in this story.... https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id...s-failure-box-pay-attention-detail-modern-nba
I suspect the Euroleague guys might be better at this fundamental. One reason our defensive rebounding is worse is that Bjelicia always boxed out.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
I said he looks like him. Similar moves, about the same speed, some decent touch on his shot. Papagiannis looked very impressive in similar workouts. I still think that he got literally no shot to perform on a losing team was another in a long list of examples of this franchise being too comfortable to fail while not even giving it a shot in a different direction. Terrible fit but he should have gotten minutes. What a total waste.
Also, Papa G's stats before coming over per 36 put him at about 20 and 8 per game in the Greek league games. He only played 10 mpg. Sengun plays nearly 30 per game. I do think Sengun will be better than Papa G though and wouldn't be surprised if he climbs like Papa G did after workouts.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
And he comes from a league that plays very physical ball. If the Kings are outside of Barnes range my pick is Giddey if he's still there. They want an all PG team anyway, might as well get someone with size to fit in with the rest of the pieces.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
what about leagues played in?
sactowndog
All-Star
Sengun in the Turkish league. PappaG in the Greek league I believe. Most people had PappaG in the 2nd Round. That ranking isn’t true for Sengun.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
which league has better competition?
