Preseason thoughts on Evans,Casspi,JT,Hawes

[sactownfan]

I'll tell you this... if we had 2 more players wit the talent and skill level as Tyreke Evans we'd be contending again...

Evans- the guy just has "it" and "it" is that confidence in himself that he doesn't just belong in the NBA, he deserves to be an all-star soon...hes got that "under control" swagger. he is special for sure and NO ONE... NO ONE should be against this pick by now... he can do everything! He is the most ready to go rookie we've seen here in a long time... Hes good now but he will get better! Yes its gonna be at times painful to watch him continue to learn the PG position, and maybe he ends up at SG (i think he stays at PG)... but he is is that all around star every team needs to contend.

Last 2 things on evans----- other than being able to do everything at a hight level i was most impressed with his 1. DEFENSE... he guarded Kobe well... Kobe still hit some crazy tough shots but theres nothing anyone could do to stop that... Evans could be the best offensive and defensive player on this team... 2. is Evans shot is ugly... but it goes down... i think this is his only weakness. if he can learn to get it off quicker and shoot a higher % his a superstar for sure.

JT- wow he had a good game? eh... at least in the box score... but is still playing SOOOO fast... hes outa control when ever he gets the ball in the post by himself... hes a great garbage man wit the tip ins, but really isn't impressing me with his defense or offense... it just seems like he needs to just slow down a tad and then he would be a solid role player. he really needs to step it up on the defense...

Hawes- the big let down- unlike JT who surprised us with his ability... I think we all had high hopes for Hawes... but it looks like hes content on being pushed around and settling for bombing 3's all game long... WE ALL KNOW he has post up game... the hook fakes and hook spins... but hes still to afraid to play in the paint.... right now hes my BIGEST let down on this team. hes defense is terrible for the 5 spot. he claims to have put on 10lbs and that hes enjoying his new found ability to push around the other center on our team...???? wait we dont have one... and he cant push around any real 5 in the nba.

Casspi- looks alright i guess... hes really skinny... like more so than Garcia? he needs to just work on getting an NBA body so he can actually harass the other team... i like him, but hes very raw and appears to not be ready "right now"

 

[HighTopKicks]

I'll tell you this... if we had 2 more players wit the talent and skill level as Tyreke Evans we'd be contending again...

Evans- the guy just has "it" and "it" is that confidence in himself that he doesn't just belong in the NBA, he deserves to be an all-star soon...hes got that "under control" swagger. he is special for sure and NO ONE... NO ONE should be against this pick by now... he can do everything! He is the most ready to go rookie we've seen here in a long time... Hes good now but he will get better! Yes its gonna be at times painful to watch him continue to learn the PG position, and maybe he ends up at SG (i think he stays at PG)... but he is is that all around star every team needs to contend.

Last 2 things on evans----- other than being able to do everything at a hight level i was most impressed with his 1. DEFENSE... he guarded Kobe well... Kobe still hit some crazy tough shots but theres nothing anyone could do to stop that... Evans could be the best offensive and defensive player on this team... 2. is Evans shot is ugly... but it goes down... i think this is his only weakness. if he can learn to get it off quicker and shoot a higher % his a superstar for sure.

JT- wow he had a good game? eh... at least in the box score... but is still playing SOOOO fast... hes outa control when ever he gets the ball in the post by himself... hes a great garbage man wit the tip ins, but really isn't impressing me with his defense or offense... it just seems like he needs to just slow down a tad and then he would be a solid role player. he really needs to step it up on the defense...

Hawes- the big let down- unlike JT who surprised us with his ability... I think we all had high hopes for Hawes... but it looks like hes content on being pushed around and settling for bombing 3's all game long... WE ALL KNOW he has post up game... the hook fakes and hook spins... but hes still to afraid to play in the paint.... right now hes my BIGEST let down on this team. hes defense is terrible for the 5 spot. he claims to have put on 10lbs and that hes enjoying his new found ability to push around the other center on our team...???? wait we dont have one... and he cant push around any real 5 in the nba.

Casspi- looks alright i guess... hes really skinny... like more so than Garcia? he needs to just work on getting an NBA body so he can actually harass the other team... i like him, but hes very raw and appears to not be ready "right now"

I agree with you on Evans. His greatest talent right now is that the can play PG or SG. So, he can play along side Martin, Beno or Sergio, and not be a liability on the offensive or defensive sides. I don't care if he's getting blocked or missing layups right now. Because those type of misses will improve with experience. And, as far as our opponents are concerned they're like body punches in a fight, they keep you offguard and open to the big punch.

JT has not developed low post moves and doesn't have the vertical leaping ability to overcome his lack of low post skill. 18% of his shots last year were dunks, but all were assisted. He didn't create any dunks on his own, from dribble penetration or offensive rebounds. 18% of his shots last year were tipins but he only made half of them. He just doesn't have a true low post game.

Hawes hurt his ankle before the 1st preseason game. Only played limited minutes in the 1st game and sat out the 2nd game. This was his 1 complete game on the season, and by all accounts the ankle isn't completely healed. Which was his explaination for missing the dunk lob from Tyreke.

On the bright side, Bynum got 6 trips to the foul line where he scored 10 of his 24pts JT fouled him twice,& Noc, Brockman, Casspi, & Sergio each fouled him once. Hawes didn't foul him once even though he played him straight up the entire game. At the most, Hawes can be held responsible for allowing Bynum 10 pts on 5 shot. As PW said in his post game interview, Hawes wasn't responsible for Bynum's alleyoop dunks, because he left him to help when the guards blew their coverage. The rotation to pick up Bynum didn't come fast enough.

Is our 21yr old center who weights less than most NBA PF's playing tough right now? Probably not, but does that mean we need to draft a sumo wrestler as our new center? Absolutely not. Atheticism fades, but skill continues to develop. Who's better right now. Well, Bynum has had Kareem coaching him and has been a pro for 3 yrs. Hawes has had Theus & Natt coaching him and has been a pro for 2 yrs. Right now, I'll give Bynum a slight edge. But, that could change, and I'm willing to give Hawes the benefit of the doubt. Two years from now, or maybe sooner, Hawes is the better center.

 

[FromIsrael]

Evans is amazing.. his the future of the kings... the kings have to sign him for a realy long time..

 

[AriesMar27]

Casspi plays kind of like Joe Alexander from the bucks.

Why does tyreke Evans shoot like Stephen Jackson? Same ugly release... But the boy has handles though. He can get to the rim against pgs but isn't that great of a finisher, why can't he dunk?

Thompson is active, raw but hella active.

Hawes is weak.... Bynum and mbenga just pushed him out of the post. Shot more threes than our entire back court.

 

[SCKingsfan]

My thoughts are that JT looked much improved. Like perhaps he did something in the off-season to make himself better. he's always been a hustler and quick jumper, but he actually finished shots in the paint . What frustated me so much last year was his inability to score without dunking, that he had no touch within 8 feet of the basket. Three tips to himself and nothing to show for it. In this game he was hitting them, and showing some confidence in himself. It's only one game, but it was inspiring to see. I could see him as a solid 15-12 player this year.

Hawes - didn't impress me in this game. Just seemed like the Hawes of last year - bombing 3 pointers, rimming out the hookshot from 12 feet instead of establishing better position at 6 feet, which is what the shot was designed for, anyway. All those post moves mean very little if you play soft. Looks great in big mans camp, doesn't work in the NBA unless you are willing to knock people around, or at least jostle them out of position once in awhile. this kid will not make it in the nba unless he changes his play.

Casspi: the guy made a lot of rookie mistakes, but I get the sense he may have the IQ, athleticism, and intensity to be a strong NBA role player. Great at the catch and shoot. May have a few nights of ginobili like production. I'll take that; particularly if he shows that he can relax and stroke that jumper consistently.

Evans is clearly a player. I'm not convinced he is our point guard. He can certainly get to the rim. reminds me a bit of artest, and if he learns to use his body like artest does going to the rim, he promises to be a very unique offense presence.

What i do see from this group is a lot of hustle, and I think it's a group that could develop a strong work ethic.

An aside: one thing I REALLY enjoyed about the game was seeing us not give up uncontested shots in the paint. Even though we were playing lousy defense, we were knocking people down, making them think twice about coming in the lane. that is clearly something Westphal is emphasizing this year. A good placeholder, at least, until we actually learn how to play legit team defense. Will it finally happen this year? I don't know, but i'm hoping so.

 

[TaxMan]

JT has not developed low post moves and doesn't have the vertical leaping ability to overcome his lack of low post skill. 18% of his shots last year were dunks, but all were assisted. He didn't create any dunks on his own, from dribble penetration or offensive rebounds. 18% of his shots last year were tipins but he only made half of them. He just doesn't have a true low post game.

Where did you get this info? Not trying to be a smart-a**, just curious because it seems very specific. I'd be interested in seeing more stats of this level of detail.

 

[bajaden]

I agree with you on Evans. His greatest talent right now is that the can play PG or SG. So, he can play along side Martin, Beno or Sergio, and not be a liability on the offensive or defensive sides. I don't care if he's getting blocked or missing layups right now. Because those type of misses will improve with experience. And, as far as our opponents are concerned they're like body punches in a fight, they keep you offguard and open to the big punch.

JT has not developed low post moves and doesn't have the vertical leaping ability to overcome his lack of low post skill. 18% of his shots last year were dunks, but all were assisted. He didn't create any dunks on his own, from dribble penetration or offensive rebounds. 18% of his shots last year were tipins but he only made half of them. He just doesn't have a true low post game.

Hawes hurt his ankle before the 1st preseason game. Only played limited minutes in the 1st game and sat out the 2nd game. This was his 1 complete game on the season, and by all accounts the ankle isn't completely healed. Which was his explaination for missing the dunk lob from Tyreke.

On the bright side, Bynum got 6 trips to the foul line where he scored 10 of his 24pts JT fouled him twice,& Noc, Brockman, Casspi, & Sergio each fouled him once. Hawes didn't foul him once even though he played him straight up the entire game. At the most, Hawes can be held responsible for allowing Bynum 10 pts on 5 shot. As PW said in his post game interview, Hawes wasn't responsible for Bynum's alleyoop dunks, because he left him to help when the guards blew their coverage. The rotation to pick up Bynum didn't come fast enough.

Is our 21yr old center who weights less than most NBA PF's playing tough right now? Probably not, but does that mean we need to draft a sumo wrestler as our new center? Absolutely not. Atheticism fades, but skill continues to develop. Who's better right now. Well, Bynum has had Kareem coaching him and has been a pro for 3 yrs. Hawes has had Theus & Natt coaching him and has been a pro for 2 yrs. Right now, I'll give Bynum a slight edge. But, that could change, and I'm willing to give Hawes the benefit of the doubt. Two years from now, or maybe sooner, Hawes is the better center.

I think your being a little harsh on Thompson. I thought his defense last night was pretty good. He did a good job of helping from the weakside when he was on the floor with Hawes, and he was the only King I saw that did that. One of his fouls on Bynum should have gone the other way. The one where Thompson had position and Bynum reached over him for the ball and hooked Thompson's arm. As far as not creating his own dunks, number one, most players don't for the most part create their own dunks. At least not big's. Its usually a SF or a SG that uses a spin move along the baseline. I don't recall any dunks by Bynum last night that he created on his own. Personally I don't care how he scores his points as long as most are in the paint and his shooting percentate is good.

I do agree that his post game needs more work. But remember that it was just 3 years ago that he was a SG instead of a center. So he's probably a little behind the curve so to speak. But its his skill development that will determine whether he's just a good role player type PF, or a star. He still has plenty of time.

 

[CaminoChaos]

I just want to say one thing about Evans. Phil Jackson had Kobe guarding him. That alone speaks volumes. On top of that he got to the basket at will. On top of that he nearly got a triple double. Not bad for a rookie.

Casspi has a little work to do but he is fearless.

I expect JT to be a double-double guy. We need him to fill that role.

Hawes has to get more consistant.

 

[fnordius]

Where did you get this info? Not trying to be a smart-a**, just curious because it seems very specific. I'd be interested in seeing more stats of this level of detail.

A lot of detailed stats like that are here: http://www.82games.com/0809/08SAC14.HTM

 

[fnordius]

Preseason thoughts on those 4 players:

Hawes is off to a kind of weak start. The other guys are doing about as I expected. Too early to really say anything more than that.

 

[Bricklayer]

This is really why JT as All Star etc. does not fit. He's really just a garbageman. Might become a good one, but there is ahuge gulf between a player like JT, and a player you can throw the ball to in the block, and have him go 1 on 1 and score over his man. JT plays more like a talented version of Mikki, at least when he's playing well -- move to the hoop, keep your hands up. And those players are useful without a doubt, but they just aren't All Stars. They aren't guys that can carry you, because basically their scoring depends on the other team not paying them a great deal of attention. The Duncan's of the world you can pay all the attention you want to them and they will score anyway.

This is also why Hawes continues to have the higher ceiling...but one which I am increasingly nervous about him reaching because of wussiness. Now Hawes DOES have the moves of a potential star, a load of them that suggest McHaleism -- throw the ball into the post, and watch him torture his man with a whole array of moves. But he's weak, soft, and in general I would love to guard a guy like him as he stands right now. Chuck him in the ribs a couple of times and he'd retreat to the three point line to suck his thumb.

 

[fnordius]

JT as garbageman

And yet, out of our roster, JT was second only to Kevin when it came to +/- or Roland Rating. Which just goes to show how desperately we needed help in the "big" department. Before JT, Justin Williams had racked up impressive +/- numbers (particularly in relation to his overall abilities as a player) just because he was willing to hang out in the paint, contest shots, and play garbageman. Things which we HAD to have, and nobody else was doing.

It's a pity that JT isn't a better defender, or offensively versatile, but I hate to think what this team would look like without him.

I really hope that, one of these days, Geoff will get us a big that other teams will be intimidated by, someone that JT and/or Hawes should play backup for. (*cough*AnthonyRandolph*cough*) If we don't quite win the Wall sweepstakes this summer, it could happen. Let's just hope that Geoff doesn't believe too many stories about all the future stars having bad attitudes or bad knees.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

If Hugo could ever finish half of the plays he misses, he'd not only be a leading candidate for ROY, but also a spot on the All-Star Team.

 

[Kingster]

Casspi plays kind of like Joe Alexander from the bucks.

Why does tyreke Evans shoot like Stephen Jackson? Same ugly release... But the boy has handles though. He can get to the rim against pgs but isn't that great of a finisher, why can't he dunk?

Stephen Jackson is Evans's role model. Him and John Salmons. He's part Jackson, part Salmons. That is, he's the worst of Jackson and the worst of Salmons. Kind of like Mr. Hyde and Mr. Hyde. As for the dunking, Evans is old school. No dunking allowed. Westphal has told him that he will be deducted a point for every dunk he makes.

 

[fnordius]

Stephen Jackson is Evans's role model. Him and John Salmons. He's part Jackson, part Salmons. That is, he's the worst of Jackson and the worst of Salmons. Kind of like Mr. Hyde and Mr. Hyde. As for the dunking, Evans is old school. No dunking allowed. Westphal has told him that he will be deducted a point for every dunk he makes.

I think you just won the thread.

 

[SCKingsfan]

I think you just won the thread.

Second.

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

Reke looks great, especially for a player his age. Sure we might have our quibbles about finishing, but that takes game experience, and the moves, change of direction, etc to split defenders and get to the basket are already there; with his athleticism and strength it's almost certain that he's going to be a good finisher eventually, and hopefully get to the free throw line more. Other nice stuff to see--he's shown good defensive potential, and he's translated his rebounding and passing well--I wouldn't be too surprised if he emerges as a triple double threat in the future, in the assumption that he sees more PG duties. A concern might be the jumper--he hasn't shown three point ability yet and he sort of flings his shot all the way back in an unorthodox manner leading him to frontrim his shots at times--so mechanics and consistency appear to be both an issue. But that's the easiest thing to correct, and even if that doesn't develop too well I'd expect him to get his numbers anyway due to his natural talent and physical tools. I've always wanted a player who can pass and slash in the mold of Rajon Rondo, and 'Reke is not only taller but seems like he can fulfill those abilities as well. I'm really growing on him.

Casspi was projected to be a nice scorer/hustle player in this level, and he's done somewhat so far. Again an unorthodox jumper and he's not a natural dribbler, but he's mobile, fairly elusive, and a workhorse, so he'll get his points in some fashion.

JT hustles well and at his most active form will garner putbacks, dunks, and in general show good touch around the rim. Definitely rebounds and gets on the offensive glass. Gamespeed is an issue though--I don't think he's totally adjusted to it, and sometimes he's just bouncing around inside to no avail--whether that reveals any limitations about lack of talent inside is a bit of a question at this point. Jumper at this stage is mediocre. He's also clearly outmatched against more bigger and skilled players, doesn't block shots well and the defensive nuances aren't exactly there. Good hustle player when into it, but a bit sloppy and disoriented when out of it.

Hawes has moves inside and shows niftiness and good touch, but if he's perturbed by physical players or gets disoriented he'll quickly shift into the jumper game and eventually hang out in the three point line. He can hit threes and has good touch, but whether that's a smart decision considering his considerable skills inside is in question. That also has given him the soft label--he's not adept at getting to the line, he's not the best rebounder, he has problems with physical brutes, and that might ultimately hinder him from becoming something more.

 

[Bricklayer]

Reke looks great, especially for a player his age. Sure we might have our quibbles about finishing, but that takes game experience, and the moves, change of direction, etc to split defenders and get to the basket are already there; with his athleticism and strength it's almost certain that he's going to be a good finisher eventually, and hopefully get to the free throw line more. Other nice stuff to see--he's shown good defensive potential, and he's translated his rebounding and passing well--I wouldn't be too surprised if he emerges as a triple double threat in the future, in the assumption that he sees more PG duties. A concern might be the jumper--he hasn't shown three point ability yet and he sort of flings his shot all the way back in an unorthodox manner leading him to frontrim his shots at times--so mechanics and consistency appear to be both an issue. But that's the easiest thing to correct, and even if that doesn't develop too well I'd expect him to get his numbers anyway due to his natural talent and physical tools. I've always wanted a player who can pass and slash in the mold of Rajon Rondo, and 'Reke is not only taller but seems like he can fulfill those abilities as well. I'm really growing on him.

Casspi was projected to be a nice scorer/hustle player in this level, and he's done somewhat so far. Again an unorthodox jumper and he's not a natural dribbler, but he's mobile, fairly elusive, and a workhorse, so he'll get his points in some fashion.

JT hustles well and at his most active form will garner putbacks, dunks, and in general show good touch around the rim. Definitely rebounds and gets on the offensive glass. Gamespeed is an issue though--I don't think he's totally adjusted to it, and sometimes he's just bouncing around inside to no avail--whether that reveals any limitations about lack of talent inside is a bit of a question at this point. Jumper at this stage is mediocre. He's also clearly outmatched against more bigger and skilled players, doesn't block shots well and the defensive nuances aren't exactly there. Good hustle player when into it, but a bit sloppy and disoriented when out of it.

Hawes has moves inside and shows niftiness and good touch, but if he's perturbed by physical players or gets disoriented he'll quickly shift into the jumper game and eventually hang out in the three point line. He can hit threes and has good touch, but whether that's a smart decision considering his considerable skills inside is in question. That also has given him the soft label--he's not adept at getting to the line, he's not the best rebounder, he has problems with physical brutes, and that might ultimately hinder him from becoming something more.

You know...I almost entirely endorse this post. Wasn't planning on a comprehensive listing in this thread anyway, but now definitely am not. I'll just second.

 

[BMiller52]

Where were you guys able to watch the game? I wanted to see how our players were doing but none of the games were televised.

 

[fnordius]

Where were you guys able to watch the game? I wanted to see how our players were doing but none of the games were televised.

Some of us went to Vegas, others could pick up and watch an LA TV station's broadcast of it. It was also broadcast over the Internet, by a number of sites, but if that was illegal, I'm sure that none of us would have done that.

See the game archive board for our realtime and postmortem blather on the subject.

 

[Kingster]

some Of Us Went To Vegas, Others Could Pick Up And Watch An La Tv Station's Broadcast Of It. It Was Also Broadcast Over The Internet, By A Number Of Sites, But If That Was Illegal, I'm Sure That None Of Us Would Have Done That.

No, none of us...

 

[Kingsguy881]

Maybe I was watching a different guy named Jason Thompson, but I saw spin moves and strong cuts from him Saturday night. Might not want to judge him on how he did last year, in his ROOKIE season, so much.

 

[deekay2o9]

A lot of people seem to forget that big men take longer to develop than wing players and guards. From looking purely at the numbers, I would say he's developing nicely. I only got to see two games last season, one on tv and one live. I was impressed by what little I saw.

 

[Bricklayer]

A lot of people seem to forget that big men take longer to develop than wing players and guards. From looking purely at the numbers, I would say he's developing nicely. I only got to see two games last season, one on tv and one live. I was impressed by what little I saw.

By the time we get done with everybody who's supposed to develop slowly (bigs, PGs, Euro's etc.) there's not going to be anybody left to develop quickly.

The bigs developing slowly thing is really a recent phenomenon centered around all the underclassmen flooding the league, and as much about physical immaturity as anything else. A 19yr old kid is in no way ready to physically bang wiht a 29yr old man as a rule. But I am old enough to remember a time when everybody entered the league after 4 years of college, at the same age that Jason entered the league, and the really good bigs would walk rihgt in and be 20-10 guys right from day 1. Which doesn't mean that NO bigs took time to develop -- there are always individuals (I have previously mentioend Thorpe for instance), and the hope with Jason has to be that he grew late and went to a tiny school -- but it does mean that bigs of Jason's age were often just as developed as the guards of that age were, and weren't going to get dramatically better after they were drafted.