Preseason Grades v. Clippers 10/18/2016

How many of the 9 non-Cuzzes who played would you give a B- or better in your grades?


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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Well, we're still in preseason form here at the Consortium. We'll be using a new format this year, and I don't have a full + final list of participants yet, so I don't have our annual Consortium banner made yet. This will fill in for the time being:

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The grey haired one is Baja. Assuming he still has any hair.

Alright...well, in kinda predictable #Kangz fashion we saved the most erratic preseason game for last (and of course the only televised one to really fire up those fans for the season). And we got a tight final score out of a series of 15-2 runs by either side that resembled a Rocky fight. A godawful 2nd quarter though really left the Clips with the solid win, and a scruffy but competitive 3rd, terrible early fourth, and great fake hustle close got us to the decptively close final score. We started an experimental backcourt that did not work at all, and unfortunately it ended up being too much like past seasons when Cuz on the floor = competitive, and Cuz off the floor = duck! Until those final 6 minutes of course.

In any case, new format. The Grading Consortium is back, we'll get everybody's letter grades this year and a final average grade for the group, and I'll be shortening the writeups back to the way The Grades originally started some 15 years ago -- short, quick, often snarky, and up quickly to provide fodder for post game discussions. Meanwhile every game a Consortium member will take a more in depth look at 1 featured starter every game. Given the less rigorous format, we're still taking applications if somebody wants to provide letter grades every (or nearly every) night.

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(I'll make that prettier -- promise :p)

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Link to Boxscore

Starters

Gay ( F ) -- just...no. I mean, you can say maybe he was distracted by the new trade rumor. or maybe he was checked out because he knew it was happening. Or you might get closer if you guessed Chris Paul slipped him a little gas money before the game. Just absolutely awful from the getgo, forcing shots, turning it over, and a huge part of the problem tonight.

Cousins ( A- ) -- drops to a minus because he let the team's struggles damage his calm and got a little wild, but his play was mostly excellent again as he tried to one-man carry us most of the night. 23pts 8rebs on 10-17 in 26min (a per36 32-11 pace).

Koufos ( B ) -- didn't seem like a good fit against this frontcourt, but really was our most effective roleplayer out there, and rolling to the hoop was precisely part of it. Banged aroudn behind Cuz with Jordan and Blake, who were more spectacular than hugely productive.

McLemore ( C ) -- really bad pairing with Temple, as Temple is an uncreative PG, and Ben, is, well Ben. And was missing wide open shots again for most of the game, because Ben, is well, Ben. Made mistakes on D, but he played with more confidence, which is un-Ben, he showed some ability to play in the passing game, and he was multi-dimensional enough to keep the grade from falling through the floor.
Featured Grade
Ben started off the game by getting caught in a couple of picks which freed up Reddick who hit a both shots. Ben did manage to hit an 18 footer coming off a pick, and playet sometimes very good defense, and sometimes not so much. He did pass the ball very well managing 5 assists, and only one turnover on a night when it was in vogue to make turnovers. after missing a couple of open three's to start the 2nd half, he finally managed to hit some shots, but the game was mostly out of reach by that time. Ben hustles to a fault. The problem is, a lot of it is wasted hustle. He just doesn't have a good feel for the game. -- Baja

Temple ( D- ) -- we saw some of this when he was running point for the kiddies in the first preseason game, but while he can play PG, he creates absolutely nothing, and not only was he unproductive, but the team was unproductive with him at the position (in particular with Ben). Was better when sliding over for one of the natural PGs, made a few nice defensive plays, and in that garbage run, finally a little productivity. This was an F after 3Q.

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Bench

Tolliver ( C+ )
-- the wart here was normally a pretty big one: he missed all his shots, which is to say almost all threes, on a night when nobody on the team hit them until the final minutes. But he continued to feel very solid at everything else, made some nice defensive plays, and we won his minutes handily.

Casspi ( C- ) -- this grade is about how you balance the garbagetime run, because Omri was quite bad for most of the game, missing everything and combining with Rudy to give us 10 Tos from our SFs, and then he suddenly snapped to in the final minutes, hit two threes, and got into an up and down rhythm. Still not sure which way its going to go for him in the regular season.

Cauley-Stein ( C- ) -- another player who really struggled for 3 1/2 quarters, and then was part of the closing rush to deodorize his game a bit. Guys started finding him for plays at the rim, and he overcame his boarding allergy. Defensively though continued to make mistakes, in guarding perimeter guys in particular, and I think the final numbers more solid than the actual game.

Collison ( C+ ) -- in an experiment, Joerger went with his two bigger less creative guards as starters, and they failed. And then he went full Karl with the backup guards, and played Lawson and Collison together. In the first half it actually worked, at least while Cuz was with them. Lot of talent. But after half it failed as you might think it would andCollison played some strong defense, but just missed everything.

Lawson ( C- ) -- paired with Collison in the mighty mini backcourt experiment, Lawson tried to compete on defense despite his lack of size. On offense he made a few nice passes, but looked increasingly uncomfortable as a scorer, and after the initial burs from he and DC, it was an out of rhythm struggle.
 
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a grades thread for a preseason game? Didn't think I would see that...unless the whole purpose of this thread was to state that the grading system will be different than years prior, in that case...misinterpreted thread title?
 
I always look forward to the grade threads, regular season or otherwise. If there is to be a change to the formatting this year I would like to request an additional change as well.

At least four post-season game threads please, if it is within the powers of the Consortium and not asking for too much. :D

Thanks in advance.
 
It was a tough game and I'm sure the Kings will play much better offensively when things get going for real. The only concern I have is pretty much the same concern as last year and that's the pick and roll defense with Kosta Koufos out there. He and Cousins can't reliably provide much help over the screen on their own, so when they are out there together it's almost hopeless. Tolliver and Willie did a much better job showing and switching. I'm not sold at all on Koufos and Cousins playing many minutes together. I did think things were a little better after they came back in as Joerger had Koufos playing out more and he even switched a few times. This playing 5 feet off the ball handler coming off the screen stuff has to stop.
 
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It was a tough game and I'm sure the Kings will play much better offensively when things get going for real. The only concern I have is pretty much the same concern as last year and that's the pick and roll defense with Kosta Koufos out there. He and Cousins can't reliably provide much help over the screen on their own, so when they are out there together it's almost hopeless. Tolliver and Willie did a much better job showing and switching. I'm not sold at all on Koufos and Cousins playing many minutes together. I did think things were a little better after they came back in as Joerger had Koufos playing out more and he even switched a few times. This playing 5 feet off the ball handler coming off the screen stuff has to stop.

Spot on. Sadly Willie is just a bad fit in every other aspect of the game - bad rebounder, no offensive game so far, not good at moving the ball efficiently, questionable motor at times. Not saying he won't improve, but so far he is not an NBA starter (and that we passed on Winslow and Johnson to draft him is beginning to worry me).
I think we will go small for most of the minutes versus many teams. Makes the most sense.
 
Spot on. Sadly Willie is just a bad fit in every other aspect of the game - bad rebounder, no offensive game so far, not good at moving the ball efficiently, questionable motor at times. Not saying he won't improve, but so far he is not an NBA starter (and that we passed on Winslow and Johnson to draft him is beginning to worry me).
I think we will go small for most of the minutes versus many teams. Makes the most sense.

So far Winslow and Johnson aren't NBA starters either. Hype not matched by production.
 
So far Winslow and Johnson aren't NBA starters either. Hype not matched by production.

We'll see. Johnson looked like he belongs in an NBA playoff series defending the best player of the decade. Winslow looked very good this preseason from my point of view.
And both fit the mold of todays NBA - strong, versatile, unselfish, able to play and guard almost any position on the floor.
So far Willie is the big unknown, because of the Karl factor from last season. But summer league and preseason performance left a lot to be desired. And as a player with no offensive game he might be limited to the center position in todays game, which is not ideal, if we plan to move ahead with Cousins.
 
This is the first game our regular rotation guys have been beaten. It took what, 15-16 missed three's in a row? That wont happen again all season. It also took us playing goofy rotations with Temple starting and Collison/Lawson playing together. I doubt we'll see much of that in the regular season. Have a feeling Joerger was just prepping for the first few games without Collison by having Temple out there running the point. The game may have looked a lot different if he started Collison or Lawson and played normal PG/SG rotations instead of SG/SG and PG/PG playing together 90% of the time. I get why he did it that way though. We need to practice with the guys who are going to be out there the first 8 games together.
 
I definitely get the feeling that Joerger has been using the preseason to experiment and that makes me happy. This is the time to tinker and formulate ideals.

With that said, because the shooting was so uncharacteristically off, it was hard to get a solid feel. I doubt Tolliver will shoot that bad again and Omri has the capability to hang with the best shooters in the NBA when he is on (remember the Golden State game).

Temple was a train wreck as a creating guard. He simply cannot be paired with Ben. That is horrible! We have definitely learned that for Ben to be even mildly effective offensively, he has to be paired with a creating PG like Lawson and to a lesser extent Collison.

Temple with Afflalo would work because Afflalo can get his points backing down his man.

Therefore, even if Lawson-Afflalo is the pairing that starts the first 8 games, I think Joerger will stagger their minutes to where Temple has time with Afflalo and Ben has minutes with Lawson. Once Darren comes back, the rotations will be easier to manage.
 
Ben with 11/6/5....only 4 rebounds and 5 assists shy of a triple double ;)

I don't get why Willie is so content to be so passive on offense. Do you want to be a star or just another guy? There's no urgency to his game, no force of will. Frankly he needs more Boogie to his game.

GRADE : D (WCS)

Ben needs to make open shots, but I don't worry so much about that in pre-season as long as they are good shots. Chasing Reddick is one of toughest jobs in the league for a SG besides checking Harden. He did okay. Just of curiosity, I want to see how many times Ben had more than 5 rebounds and 5 assists in same game last year, before I look I bet the answer is "zero"....

And the answer is zero. He had 5 or more rebounds four times all season and his season high in assists last year was 4. So that's progress. Don't get me wrong, he didn't play well, but Ben is a better player than last year. I think he can valuable off the bench.

GRADE : C+ (Ben)

Lawson made a corner three and bricked his other 5 shots but again I don't worry about that in pre-season. I wanted to see Lawson get to his spots on the floor and run the team and he did that. He's got his speed now he needs to get back his confidence in his shot. That's often the last thing to come.

GRADE: C (Ty)

I don't like the way Rudy looks. I said this after the last game, even though he had the nice stats, I didn't like what I saw. I think he's slowing down. All of his moves are so deliberate and he coughed it up like a cat in moth ball factory. I thought we were gonna see more pep to his step after his Achilles???

As much as he says he wants to be a pro, I think if a guy is not buying in mentally or emotionally it is going to affect him in terms of effort and focus. Maybe he's just gearing up for when the games count, we'll see.

GRADE: F (Rudy)

Omri's timing was off after not playing. Not worried about that.

GRADE: F (Omri)

Boogie looks great. His shot looks as sharp as I have seen it. The technical foul call was a play in which the defender jumped straight in the air with arms vertical, Boogie got ball back and was fouled on the put back. No reason to yell a curse word since (1) the ref sent you to the line and (2) made the right call on both counts. He had only one post move the entire night when he had a size advantage on Griffin. Twice I think he established early position in the post. This is exactly what I envision to maximize Boogie's skills. Selective posting against mismatch, early offense and featured often in the high post where defenders have back off to give him easy shoot, space to drive or dish. As long as he stays healthy he's going to have his best year ever.

Grade: A- (Boogie)

Why didn't Affalo play?

Tolliver came crashing back to Earth after his 7-7. I didn't like much of what he did tonight. The 39% FG of last year makes more sense now.

Grade: D (Tolliver)

That's everyone except Koufos. Koufos needs to make his presence known defensively more and on the boards. Like Rudy, I hope he's just gearing up like a veteran whose played his share of meaningless preseason games. Koufos missed a ridiculously easy shot at the start of the game but showed fairly decent activity level. Got beat in transition for an and-one when if he was a little more reactive could have broken up the play.

Grade: C (Koufos)

I don't like PGs who can't shoot and lack speed. Temple can't shoot and lacks speed. Those who wanted to immediately gift Temple minutes over Ben are seeing what I anticipated before the season started. The talent discrepancy is minimal, and I don't think Ben needs to concede anything to this journey man. As up and down as Ben has been he beat out Temple. FWIW I think plus/minus stats reflect the team has been way better with Ben on the floor....

The Kings are +8.3 with Ben on the floor in pre-season
The Kings are -10.3 with Temple on the floor in pre-season (worst on team)


Collectively, the guys had a rough night, and it actually may be a good thing to get this stinker out of the system, but the only ones who concern me are Temple, Rudy and lesser extent Willie, because once the bell rings for real, I am not sure we can count on them to win, baby, win.

Grade: D- (Temple)

The team will look different (better) with Affalo running with starters to give us that third scorer in the 1st and 3rd quarters and another post option, and with Ben moved to second unit to create havoc defensively with Barnes. I would expect Omri to be the odd man out, unless he platoons with Tolliver.

Let the real games begin!!!
 
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Why would you give Omri a INC?

He was terrible, then was ok when the game was out of hand.

I know last year he looked poor in preseason too, but I wouldn't put him on the floor if he keeps this up with our depth right now.
 
Why would you give Omri a INC?

He was terrible, then was ok when the game was out of hand.

I know last year he looked poor in preseason too, but I wouldn't put him on the floor if he keeps this up with our depth right now.
You're right, let me fix it. :)
 

A lot of this is from when Temple was played with all of the rookies at the end of the first preseason game when they gave up like a 24-0 run. I wouldn't put too much stock into a +/- stat during the preseason when coaches are not playing their best lineups on purpose (especially when a guy is being paired with players who have yet to play a NBA game).
 
This is my first look at Kings this year. The Clippers look like a pretty great team. The Kings could not hit anything.

The defense is different with the reduced switching. The interior defense may be better. The perimeter defense was still terrible. It was interesting that we learned last night that the Kings gave up more 3s last year, than any team in the history of the league. That is going to have to change.
 
Couple takeaways from last night...
  1. The Clippers are truly complete team that move excellent without the ball and make meaningful passes almost every possession.
  2. The Kings stand around stagnant and make stupid little drop off passes standing 2 feet away from each other which usually resulting in a turn over.
  3. Garrett Temple is no Doug Christie. Never at any point should be be the sole ball handler on the floor. We need DC or Lawson out there at all times.
  4. At the half, DMC and Omri were the first out of the Locker room and both looked pissed off. I'm thinking these two must of went off on the rest of the team ( possible taking leadership roles?)
 
Spot on. Sadly Willie is just a bad fit in every other aspect of the game - bad rebounder, no offensive game so far, not good at moving the ball efficiently, questionable motor at times. Not saying he won't improve, but so far he is not an NBA starter (and that we passed on Winslow and Johnson to draft him is beginning to worry me).
I think we will go small for most of the minutes versus many teams. Makes the most sense.

I really focused in on Willie, and particularly in the 2nd half, he played terrific defense. I counted 11 times where he left his man under the basket to stop the ball on the perimeter, and still got back to his man to defend the basket. Three times he participated in traps that resulted in turnovers by the Clips.. On the rebounding side, although he ended up with eight, he had three tips that went to one of our players. He was encumbered somewhat when he had to guard Jordan because he was leaking out early and Willie had to follow him to prevent a break away. So defensively, I thought he played well, particularly in the 2nd half.

Offensively he needs to become more aggressive, and take the open shot when he has it. To be fair, there were many time when he rolled to the basket and didn't get the ball. I do think he plays better with Cousins on the floor and I don't think you can put him in the high post as the only big out there and expect the offense to run smoothly. At least from what I've seen so far, which isn't much. To be honest, I don't put much value in preseason games. Willie still has a long way to go to reach his total potential, but when judging him, I think you have to judge him on what he's good at, and that's defense. And you have to pay attention. He's a different kind of player who tends to be all over the floor at times patching holes. As a result, at times it looks like he's lost his man. But always seems to get back in time.
 
This is my first look at Kings this year. The Clippers look like a pretty great team. The Kings could not hit anything.

The defense is different with the reduced switching. The interior defense may be better. The perimeter defense was still terrible. It was interesting that we learned last night that the Kings gave up more 3s last year, than any team in the history of the league. That is going to have to change.

I don't think they could repeat that even if they tried, so at least that record is in the history books :confused:
 
I really focused in on Willie, and particularly in the 2nd half, he played terrific defense. I counted 11 times where he left his man under the basket to stop the ball on the perimeter, and still got back to his man to defend the basket. Three times he participated in traps that resulted in turnovers by the Clips.. On the rebounding side, although he ended up with eight, he had three tips that went to one of our players. He was encumbered somewhat when he had to guard Jordan because he was leaking out early and Willie had to follow him to prevent a break away. So defensively, I thought he played well, particularly in the 2nd half.

Offensively he needs to become more aggressive, and take the open shot when he has it. To be fair, there were many time when he rolled to the basket and didn't get the ball. I do think he plays better with Cousins on the floor and I don't think you can put him in the high post as the only big out there and expect the offense to run smoothly. At least from what I've seen so far, which isn't much. To be honest, I don't put much value in preseason games. Willie still has a long way to go to reach his total potential, but when judging him, I think you have to judge him on what he's good at, and that's defense. And you have to pay attention. He's a different kind of player who tends to be all over the floor at times patching holes. As a result, at times it looks like he's lost his man. But always seems to get back in time.

Good post but I would like to see more aggressiveness from him. I feel like he's afraid to make a mistake. That if he doesn't have a dunk or wide open look for beat of two counts he's not even going to look at the basket. You don't become a star that way. You don't become a star if you don't anticipate plays before they unfold which means making yourself available to catch the pass before it is made and getting into rebound position before the ball hits the rim. I think Willie has played second or third fiddle for too long, going back to Kentucky, and until he stops playing this role his potential will go unrealized.
 
About 5 min of watching Garrett Temple was enough to judge that he should not be on the team. Horrible first impression - guy is a scrub at PG, slow of foot, average handles, poor looking shot. Kings are in big trouble this season even more than last year. They didn't play defense last year, but now their offense looks lost too. They f'd their draft up yet again and are refusing to work their draft picks on the floor. What in the hell do they have to lose? Play your young players for Christs Sake, or does the coach even have the nards to do that.
 
One thing about temple is that he can play good individual D
He looked average on defense, not quick enough to guard starting PGs effectively, and surely not good ones. His lack of offense is a clear liability. The Kings need scoring from their guards. It wasn't all on Temple though; McClemore played sloppily, but I expected better from McClemore at least. Temple seems to have a low talent level comparatively - his jump shot was terrible looking. I want to see the Kings draftees on the floor - not this political executive BS where higher paid players who don't compete are getting the most playing time. There is absolutely nothing to lose, as the team failed last year with essentially the same players.
 
About 5 min of watching Garrett Temple was enough to judge that he should not be on the team. Horrible first impression - guy is a scrub at PG

He's not going to be our PG. We have Collison, Lawson, & Farmar. There's no reason he should be playing there unless you have guys like Afflalo, Gay, & Cousins on the floor with him who will do the bulk of the playmaking, so this point is moot.

slow of foot, average handles, poor looking shot.

He's a great defender who can guard multiple positions, he has above average handles and passing for a SG (yes, SG is his natural position), and he's a decent shooter who just so happens to be shooting 46% from three this preseason (not sure this is the time for you to be knocking his shot...).

Kings are in big trouble this season even more than last year. They didn't play defense last year, but now their offense looks lost too.

Really? Swapping Karl for Joerger puts us in bigger trouble? The team has looked promising thus far. I know everyone wants everything now, but patience should be practiced by fans when you have a new head coach. Systems take time to become second nature. Bad habits take awhile to break. This is a knee jerk reaction at best...

They f'd their draft up yet again and are refusing to work their draft picks on the floor. What in the hell do they have to lose? Play your young players for Christs Sake, or does the coach even have the nards to do that.

You don't know that they f'd up their draft. Turning Chriss & Belinelli into Bogdanovic, Papagiannis, Richardson, & Labissiere seems to be a very good move on paper. We may lose that swap in the end, but those who have already conceded that we "f'd up" are either impulsive or don't understand the talent going in and/or the talent going out.

What do they have to lose? This season, Cousins, the ability to sign FAs next year, ticket sales....do you need me to keep going?
 
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I think Ben will have a really short leash to open up the season. If he struggles I can see Richardson eating up those reserve mins and if he looks good that will be that for Mclemore with us (NBA?)
 
I think Ben will have a really short leash to open up the season. If he struggles I can see Richardson eating up those reserve mins and if he looks good that will be that for Mclemore with us (NBA?)

Even if Ben doesn't pan out with us, someone will give him a chance. Almost every season the GM gets calls about Ben's availability.

To be quite honest, the thoughts of the other GM's is usually "is this person a bad player or has he just been stuck playing for Sacramento?"
 
Even if Ben doesn't pan out with us, someone will give him a chance. Almost every season the GM gets calls about Ben's availability.

To be quite honest, the thoughts of the other GM's is usually "is this person a bad player or has he just been stuck playing for Sacramento?"

I agree. I like mclemore and hope he works out for us. It seems like sometimes people actually root against him around here though.
 
i'm rooting for ben also. i think he'll be shipped out. we don't know how much his camp wants and we signed players to replace him to win now. if he does develop into a nice 3&d, can't blame anybody but vivek for his lunacy the past 3 years.
 
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