Pre-Draft Workouts

Ozymandias said:
Well I'm sure with Bates they already know he can shoot the lights out, cant be left open, he has some shake on the perimeter and the stepback is finely tuned. but he measured quite skinny still at the combine at 179lbs, there's questions about which position he'll play, so its nice to hear they get a look at him up close.

Ben Sheppard seems to be trending somewhere between our 1st and 2nd pick, but he's another guy who all the teams want to see now after the combine. He seems like a guy who'd seamlessly fit into most any lockerroom, definitely loves playing the game.

Jordan Walsh has moved up many draft boards in recent weeks as well, it'd seem we're trying to judge him for the early 2nd rd pick. He definitely seems like a Coach Brown type of player on defense and he can sure get out and run and jump in transition so while he's not going to be some dynamic offensive force he should manage to make a big impact on an uptempo team like ours.

Sheppard in the 1st, Walsh in the 2nd and Bates with the late 2nd? Thoughts?
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I love how quick Sheppard can get his shot off. What concerns me is his poor FT shooting. Despite his 3pt % steadily increasing every year, his FT% has only hit above 70% one out of 4 years. I'm not sure I can ever fully recover from the Kevin Huerter experience...

Here's a whacky stat. He had a game where he shot 8-11 from 3pt.... but in that same game, he shot 5-15 from FT....

I'd be ok with him at #24 if the shooting during his senior year wasn't a fluke.
 
Ozymandias said:
Bates is a lights out shooter, I'm not sure if there's really much debate. At the Combine just weeks ago he only reinforced that by connecting on 83.3 percent of his attempts in the shooting-off-the-dribble drill as he finished tied for first after hitting 25-of-30 from deep. He then took second in the 3-point star drill as he connected on 19-of-25 attempts (76 percent).

While his college %'s leave much to be desired they are a formation of super high volume and some bad teams also just some low quality high difficulty looks. In a spot like here on the Kings, he'd be tasked with much cleaner looks and much fewer shots.

Plus - and it's a big plus, Emoni has a good repitoire for attacking close-outs, he's got a very good step-back J with range out to 3 on it, he can take one or 2 dribbles off a crossover and then pull up, so while he was training to be some sort of superstar there was always this backup plan for him to be dangerous without using the shotclock, and he sure practiced by taking a bazillion 3's.

Some 3pt shooters are known as stationary shooters, he was really trying to showcase that he's not that and he's more dynamic, to drum up lottery or 1st rd hype but alas he'll have to get his foot in the door as a stationary shooter, so its a safe bet he'll shoot better in the NBA. Plus I mean, his shot passes the eyetest to me, that looks good out of his hand for a 6'9 player, good rotation arc, splash thru the net, he gets his feet set and square like a pro nice and quick.
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I do think there is a debate here because he his in game performance doesn't match his reputation and there's two years of data there.

His highlight reels look great but I haven't seen full games so I can't comment on his in game performance like you can so I'll definitely be taking your word on that. Looks like he doesn't lack confidence, nor the ability to get shots off. I just worry about whether those shots are going to go in with enough efficiency to make him an NBA player. Cam Thomas was another player with similar stats on volume shooting but he did it against better competition and is still a net negative player in the NBA, despite his 40pt games this year.

I see the potential there but I'm not sold at all that his lack of efficiency was just due to his team and number of shots taken.
 
funkykingston said:
True, but isn't it nice to say we're focused on wings and rebounding in the draft instead of, "we need to pick a future star to help us break this playoff drought"?
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I brought it up before, from day 1 if rumors are true Monte clearly knows this is a wing/F league considering his top options in almost every draft. Bey, Wagner, Murray. Now he looks to be scouting more guard skill F's instead of combos which is a great sign. The Kings basically have none of those and pure combo F's are starting to kind of lose their luster lately.
 
SacTownKid said:
I brought it up before, from day 1 if rumors are true Monte clearly knows this is a wing/F league considering his top options in almost every draft. Bey, Wagner, Murray. Now he looks to be scouting more guard skill F's instead of combos which is a great sign. The Kings basically have none of those and pure combo F's are starting to kind of lose their luster lately.
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Not to mention, the Kings could really use a 2/3 wing. That's especially true if Terance Davis isn't re-signed, but even if he were, he's more of a big bodied SG than someone you really want swinging between the SG and SF spots.

Whenever Huerter is out, the Kings are pretty undersized at the SG spot, and there's not a lot of depth at SF. Right now it's basically Murray (who himself is a bit of a 3/4 really) and a still largely unproved Kessler Edwards.
 
ya know one name that I hope doesnt leak if we work them out --- Olivier-Maxence Prosper... That should be like super top secret level 3A classified information



I say he's too obvious a match, last thing we need to do is tip our hand in that direction.
 
Ozymandias said:
ya know one name that I hope doesnt leak if we work them out --- Olivier-Maxence Prosper... That should be like super top secret level 3A classified information



I say he's too obvious a match, last thing we need to do is tip our hand in that direction.
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I really hope he falls to us.

What are the chances of this happening?

Probably, unlikely, who knows?
 
Ozymandias said:
ya know one name that I hope doesnt leak if we work them out --- Olivier-Maxence Prosper... That should be like super top secret level 3A classified information



I say he's too obvious a match, last thing we need to do is tip our hand in that direction.
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My concern about him is the fact that he only averaged 0.1 blocks per game in his 3 seasons at NCAA and also he wasn't able to achieve the mark of 1.0 steals per game in those years. He doesn't seems a bad prospect for the #38 pick but I think he will be gone between the #28-#35 range.

I expect us to select a SF/PF who can help the team defensively the following years and could be a complementary piece on the scheme of Mike Brown next to Sabonis and his lack of interior defense. My top3 prospects that could still be there for us at #24 and which I think that would fit well in that role next to Domas and Keegan are Sidy Cissoko, Noah Clowney and Jordan Walsh, being the last one the only one who I think could fall also to us in the second round. Maybe not as starters in their rookie season but in their 2nd/3rd year in the league if they can develope correctly.

I really like Cissoko. I watched him live in Spain one game when he was playing at our 2nd division as a 17 years old and he was the best player I watched this year (I watched all the games of my hometown team). By then he played as a PG and he surely grew strongly phisically this year. He might had to adapt his game to his new frame and weight and also to a new country and role this year in the G-League and I think he did it well. Finding a new role for him without the ball in his hands as he was used to in his career and with 3 other players claiming the ball in their hands and a ton of shots next to him, something that he will surely find also in the next step in his career as a NBA player.

He only shots at 32% from 3 this season but he also had a terrible streak for the final part of the season that was the cause his stats dropped so hard as he only could convert 3 of the last 26 shots he attempted. If he wasn't so bad with his shot in those 9 final games and he could keep his 3pt porcentages around 35-36% maybe he boosts his value to the lottery range.

For me, being from Spain, it would be amazing if we can select Cissoko at #24 and Nnaji at #38 to cover the two most needed roles of the team with two defensive mind guys that could help us to become an average defensive team at least in the near future.
 
The Kings worked out Miles Norris who's projected to be undrafted. His highlights make him look like a less talented MPJ...

23y/o PF/SF. 6'10 220lbs from UCSB.
  • Stats on 33.5mpg: 14.1pts 6.1rebs 1.2asts 0.8blks 1.1stl 1.1tos
  • Shooting splits: 49/39.1/84.4
I haven't watched him at all. But here's a game highlight:

You would think the 3pt shooting at his size would be very coveted by teams.
 
CarlosBob said:
My concern about him is the fact that he only averaged 0.1 blocks per game in his 3 seasons at NCAA and also he wasn't able to achieve the mark of 1.0 steals per game in those years. He doesn't seems a bad prospect for the #38 pick but I think he will be gone between the #28-#35 range.

I expect us to select a SF/PF who can help the team defensively the following years and could be a complementary piece on the scheme of Mike Brown next to Sabonis and his lack of interior defense. My top3 prospects that could still be there for us at #24 and which I think that would fit well in that role next to Domas and Keegan are Sidy Cissoko, Noah Clowney and Jordan Walsh, being the last one the only one who I think could fall also to us in the second round. Maybe not as starters in their rookie season but in their 2nd/3rd year in the league if they can develope correctly.

I really like Cissoko. I watched him live in Spain one game when he was playing at our 2nd division as a 17 years old and he was the best player I watched this year (I watched all the games of my hometown team). By then he played as a PG and he surely grew strongly phisically this year. He might had to adapt his game to his new frame and weight and also to a new country and role this year in the G-League and I think he did it well. Finding a new role for him without the ball in his hands as he was used to in his career and with 3 other players claiming the ball in their hands and a ton of shots next to him, something that he will surely find also in the next step in his career as a NBA player.

He only shots at 32% from 3 this season but he also had a terrible streak for the final part of the season that was the cause his stats dropped so hard as he only could convert 3 of the last 26 shots he attempted. If he wasn't so bad with his shot in those 9 final games and he could keep his 3pt porcentages around 35-36% maybe he boosts his value to the lottery range.

For me, being from Spain, it would be amazing if we can select Cissoko at #24 and Nnaji at #38 to cover the two most needed roles of the team with two defensive mind guys that could help us to become an average defensive team at least in the near future.
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Prosper was working more on his SF game, Marquette switches everything they are very multi-positionally focused and for Prosper, the paramount area that needed refinement was the ability to develop the catch and shoot 3ball. If he was at some smaller school starting at PF and tasked with playing closer to the paint getting big minutes surely he'd have had way more blocks. Part of it too was just the dynamics of the teams he was on in college, they had Oso Ighodaro at Marquette whos plenty capable of defending the rim as he's quite light footed and has plenty of recovery speed at the college level meaning it wasnt going to hurt their rim protection for Prosper to be out on the perimeter. Then he had Aamir Simms/Hunter Tyson/PJ Hall in his forgettable year 1 at Clemson, Simms was by far the best player on that team n hes same position same height n O-Max was a lot skinnier n a freshman then, far from ideal situation to put up stats.


Id argue if theres one thing you can say Prosper should be better at in the NBA than he was in college, it'd be him getting more blocks.. One of the reasons you take a player like this is to develop him further, he's far from finished n appears to be improving rapidly.


This is why everything about O-Max screams "some playoff team is gonna wanna keep everything really quiet about him"

He is a good defender, but more so than your classic "3-and-D" archetype, I'd argue he's actually more of a 3's and Dunks who can also defend and oreb type of guy whos max energy. IIRC he had something like 40 dunks and 40 3's on the season n there was only a handful of players in the nation who did that.


The thing with the Kings is like this too... Denver just won the chip, Sabonis is in fact one of the closest C's in the league to Jokic, could Prosper be groomed to function for us like an Aaron Gordon off the bench? AG is one of those 3s n Dunks n defense n energy n oboards types...

Full disclosure -- I'm an unabashed biased O-Max supporter and have been for years actually so take that into consideration, I was keeping an eye on him at Clemson... I've been pointing him out on this forum for the Kings picks (at first it was at the bottom of the 2nd rd) for many months prior to all this hype he's gotten recently too.
 
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Ozymandias said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1668605486797582337
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Considering the Pacers have (I believe) picks 26, 29, and 32, the Kings would have to take OMP at 24 if he's their guy. I don't see that he makes it out of the first round now, let alone to #38.

Side note - in this draft I wouldn't mind seeing the Kings trade with the Pacers (who likely want to consolidate picks) if something like #24 for #29 and #32 would work. It'd be dependent on the Pacers liking a couple guys in the mid 20's that they don't see dropping to #29, but that's a possibility.

Part of the rationale for me is that without a FRP next year, the Kings should be swinging on a couple late 1st/early 2nd prospects that need time to develop. Guys like James Nnaji, Sidy Cissoko, Jordan Walsh etc could essentially be next year's defacto 1st round pick if they hit.

It's why as much as I like Jaime Jaquez he's not at the top of my wish list. Getting a guy who is potentially a 10 year role player (which I think Jaquez can be) is definitely a good use of a pick in the late 20's to 30's, but without a lot of roster slots my focus is more on who can be developed in the G-League on a 2-way deal.
 
funkykingston said:
Considering the Pacers have (I believe) picks 26, 29, and 32, the Kings would have to take OMP at 24 if he's their guy. I don't see that he makes it out of the first round now, let alone to #38.

Side note - in this draft I wouldn't mind seeing the Kings trade with the Pacers (who likely want to consolidate picks) if something like #24 for #29 and #32 would work. It'd be dependent on the Pacers liking a couple guys in the mid 20's that they don't see dropping to #29, but that's a possibility.

Part of the rationale for me is that without a FRP next year, the Kings should be swinging on a couple late 1st/early 2nd prospects that need time to develop. Guys like James Nnaji, Sidy Cissoko, Jordan Walsh etc could essentially be next year's defacto 1st round pick if they hit.

It's why as much as I like Jaime Jaquez he's not at the top of my wish list. Getting a guy who is potentially a 10 year role player (which I think Jaquez can be) is definitely a good use of a pick in the late 20's to 30's, but without a lot of roster slots my focus is more on who can be developed in the G-League on a 2-way deal.
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This is why I say if we want him we should keep it really quiet... Cuz if the Pacers deem O-Max to be "their guy" it's not gonna cost them much to move up just a few spots to snatch him before us... (Lets just hope that they land Jarace Walker at 7 so they might be looking to fill needs elsewhere later)

Of all the issues Klintman pulling out of the draft causes the Kings (and there are many) this is now the most pressing. Everyone was under the impression Klintman had a promise from the Pacers.

I cant blame Klintman, he probably knew where he was gonna get drafted, did the math on the contract, then shopped around, he landed int he NBL, n now he will try for more $ next year after generating signifigant buzz, kudos to him and his camp hope it works out, but with the Kings not having a 1rp in '24 thats sort of the end of his chances here.

I'm not a Jacquez guy tbh I think he's more of a mid 2nd rd guy than a borderline 1rp. I just like some of the other names at the position better. I'm kinda like 'what the heck do we need Jacquez for when we have KM here already?'. I've said many months ago that the idea for Jacquez here would be for him to develop into some sort of Joe Ingles in his prime in Utah type of wing, but I just dont believe in his 3pt shot like that idk, maybe im wrong, I watched him play a lot thats for sure, I always thought the other wing on UCLA when I watched them Jaylen Clark would be a player Coach Brown might like more.
 
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Capt. Factorial said:
Seems like there are multiple people that will like this set of prospects.

I know most of the other folks have been quiet on Bates, but I'm certainly open to rolling the dice on him in the second round. 6'10" former projected lotto phenoms with rough college careers aren't always successful reclamation projects, but at this point, we may be filling up on bench rotation players so a high-ceiling project seems worth a shot if he impresses enough in the workout. At least we're doing our due diligence.
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I would not be adverse to using pick no. 24 on Emoni Bates. The transition from high school to college was rough--and who knows about his academic record, as that is private?--but that late in the draft, if you can find a guy who might not just help, but star, it would be worth the cost. He had a couple of years to grow up, finally, and that makes all the difference. In this case, he also fills a positional need, since he can backup Harrison Barnes or whoever else the Kings bring in to replace him.
 
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Be careful with smokescreens sent out. Not saying this happened here with OMax but what if Indiana’s true interest lay in a Jacquez and they are trying to hype OMax or others in an effort to get someone to fall in the draft…..some one that they have targeted.
 
dude12 said:
Be careful with smokescreens sent out. Not saying this happened here with OMax but what if Indiana’s true interest lay in a Jacquez and they are trying to hype OMax or others in an effort to get someone to fall in the draft…..some one that they have targeted.
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Smokescreens can be done with the intent of making players drop as well. Some teams could figure a player will be gone and not really even bother looking into them and slipping down to a team with more than 1 pick it goes. This easily has the potential to be one of those flip drafts where players on the bubble rise and those in the middle fall. Not enough standout talent deep but a lot of solid need fillers.
 
funkykingston said:
Considering the Pacers have (I believe) picks 26, 29, and 32, the Kings would have to take OMP at 24 if he's their guy. I don't see that he makes it out of the first round now, let alone to #38.

Side note - in this draft I wouldn't mind seeing the Kings trade with the Pacers (who likely want to consolidate picks) if something like #24 for #29 and #32 would work. It'd be dependent on the Pacers liking a couple guys in the mid 20's that they don't see dropping to #29, but that's a possibility.

Part of the rationale for me is that without a FRP next year, the Kings should be swinging on a couple late 1st/early 2nd prospects that need time to develop. Guys like James Nnaji, Sidy Cissoko, Jordan Walsh etc could essentially be next year's defacto 1st round pick if they hit.

It's why as much as I like Jaime Jaquez he's not at the top of my wish list. Getting a guy who is potentially a 10 year role player (which I think Jaquez can be) is definitely a good use of a pick in the late 20's to 30's, but without a lot of roster slots my focus is more on who can be developed in the G-League on a 2-way deal.
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Sidy is interesting but man I see Stanley Johnson without signs of the same G game that Johnson had in college. Players like him have that 1 and done type of potential at the NBA level if they don't develop.
 
Caccia said:
I would not be adverse to using pick no. 24 on Emoni Bates. The transition from high school to college was rough--and who knows about his academic record, as that is private?--but that late in the draft, if you can find a guy who might not just help, but star, it would be worth the cost. He had a couple of years to grow up, finally, and that makes all the difference. In this case, he also fills a positional need, since he can backup Harrison Barnes or whoever else the Kings bring in to replace him.
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The thing about Bates is that you probably wouldn’t even need to drop the frp on him. Given the complete and total lack of buzz and the narrative around him, there’s a good chance he’ll be around by the time our first second round pick comes around.
 
Tetsujin said:
The thing about Bates is that you probably wouldn’t even need to drop the frp on him. Given the complete and total lack of buzz and the narrative around him, there’s a good chance he’ll be around by the time our first second round pick comes around.
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I think that a team should only do that if they're not violating the "Don't Get Cute" principle. For instance, the Rockets had #25 and #42 in the 2014 draft. If, for sake of argument, they had Jokic #1 on their board at #25, but instead selected Capela with the intention of drafting Jokic at #42, they got cute and would have lost out big time.

That said, Bates is probably not going to be #1 on our board at #24. In the event that he is, we shouldn't get cute.
 
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