Pre-Draft Workouts

[206Fan]

Miami does a great job with development. They know how to bring guys with IQ along.

makes me curious about Neemi. I think we did the right things with him this year. He showed real improvement and I hope he is ready to make a jump…

https://www.basketball-reference.com/gleague/players/q/quetane01d.html

With an inexperienced player like Neemias, he needs NBA reps. With Brown's coaching style, he's very quick to pull guys who make mistakes. Maybe with a year under Mike Brown's personnel, we'll see less experimenting and more consistent PT to go around? At this point, he knows what works and what doesn't. On our current roster, there's minutes open for backup C. Give him 10-15mpg and see how he fairs. I think he could be decent in an Alex Len role that we saw late in the season.

Another year in the GLeague would be a waste of time for everyone.. himself included.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Also Miami has been the team that's gone more full on in to modern ball than anyone. Both on offense and defense.

“Modern ball”. Lol.

Sorry, that’s just funny to me.

 

[SacTownKid]

“Modern ball”. Lol.

Sorry, that’s just funny to me.

It is funny. After years of being a joke gimmick small ball is winning. Even against superior teams in terms of talent. Now we find out if it wins a ring against a bigger, more capable team. As of now Miami is showing you probably can't be a dynasty doing it but if you take enough stabs you can get one or two possibly.

 

[Tetsujin]

Miami does a great job with development. They know how to bring guys with IQ along.

makes me curious about Neemi. I think we did the right things with him this year. He showed real improvement and I hope he is ready to make a jump…

https://www.basketball-reference.com/gleague/players/q/quetane01d.html

You can do a great job with player development and just have a guy not pan out regardless too.

The highest pick the Heat have had in the past decade is Justise Winslow who on paper seemed like the perfect Heat player but has gone on to pretty much be a 9th/10th man at best in his career. Hell, the same front office currently running that franchise somehow saw fit to draft Michael Beasley second overall. I guess the moral of the story is that the NBA is just a massive crapshoot no matter who's running your franchise lol.

I do wonder if Neemy ends up playing in summer league again this year as a sort of audition for the regular season.

 

[Tetsujin]

It is funny. After years of being a joke gimmick small ball is winning. Even against superior teams in terms of talent. Now we find out if it wins a ring against a bigger, more capable team. As of now Miami is showing you probably can't be a dynasty doing it but if you take enough stabs you can get one or two possibly.

Miami has played more zone in this single playoff run that probably the rest of the league has played in the entire rest of the season combined. (It helps that they've played some pretty drive and dish-heavy teams.) I'm not sure that would have worked against the Warriors of the world or even the Nuggets or Kings (big pivot men who can pass are zone busters) but I think even Mike Brown has said something to the effect that more teams need to be playing more zone more often.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

It is funny. After years of being a joke gimmick small ball is winning. Even against superior teams in terms of talent. Now we find out if it wins a ring against a bigger, more capable team. As of now Miami is showing you probably can't be a dynasty doing it but if you take enough stabs you can get one or two possibly.

That's only largely because BIGS are no longer really taught how to play with their back to the basket or how to dominate smaller players in the paint.

And there's been a dearth of capable BIGS in the mold of Shaq and Duncan.

I'm certain that if Shaq in his prime played in today's game against smaller players or even BIGS that aren't accustomed defending the post, his near 60% shooting from the floor would increase to between 65-70%. Including the foul trouble he'd cause other teams, there's no team capable of consistently shooting the 45%+ from three that they'd need to average to combat that type of scoring efficiency.

Embiid is the closest thing to a Shaq the NBA has right now and he just won MVP. But he still doesn't stay close enough to the hoop to shoot closer to 60% like Shaq did. If he was used in the same way and they surrounded him with the right type of shooters and slashers, that team would be winning titles.

 

[Telemachus]

You can do a great job with player development and just have a guy not pan out regardless too.

The highest pick the Heat have had in the past decade is Justise Winslow who on paper seemed like the perfect Heat player but has gone on to pretty much be a 9th/10th man at best in his career. Hell, the same front office currently running that franchise somehow saw fit to draft Michael Beasley second overall. I guess the moral of the story is that the NBA is just a massive crapshoot no matter who's running your franchise lol.

I do wonder if Neemy ends up playing in summer league again this year as a sort of audition for the regular season.

Technically, Gabe Vincent was developed by the Kings. Vlade never made room on the roster to bring him up, and then Miami swooped in and signed him.

 

[Tetsujin]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1664055324373061633

 

[iowamcnabb]

I can’t remember who but someone from the Athletic liked Lundy on the Kings last week

 

[Ozymandias]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1664055324373061633

Nadir Hifi! That'd be a spicy selection for the Kings he'd be fun as the 3rd string PG. The Algerian Fred Van Vleet!

 

[Ozymandias]

Julian Phillips will remain in this draft!!! he has also vaulted up mocks to right near where the Kings selection is in the early 2nd rd.

Absolutely one of the most athletic wing defenders available. Veddy interesting!

 

[SacTownKid]

Miami has played more zone in this single playoff run that probably the rest of the league has played in the entire rest of the season combined. (It helps that they've played some pretty drive and dish-heavy teams.) I'm not sure that would have worked against the Warriors of the world or even the Nuggets or Kings (big pivot men who can pass are zone busters) but I think even Mike Brown has said something to the effect that more teams need to be playing more zone more often.

Zone can trick teams for sure, when it comes to nut cuttin' time we know the Heat are switching. And aggressively.

 

[SacTownKid]

That's only largely because BIGS are no longer really taught how to play with their back to the basket or how to dominate smaller players in the paint.

And there's been a dearth of capable BIGS in the mold of Shaq and Duncan.

I'm certain that if Shaq in his prime played in today's game against smaller players or even BIGS that aren't accustomed defending the post, his near 60% shooting from the floor would increase to between 65-70%. Including the foul trouble he'd cause other teams, there's no team capable of consistently shooting the 45%+ from three that they'd need to average to combat that type of scoring efficiency.

Embiid is the closest thing to a Shaq the NBA has right now and he just won MVP. But he still doesn't stay close enough to the hoop to shoot closer to 60% like Shaq did. If he was used in the same way and they surrounded him with the right type of shooters and slashers, that team would be winning titles.

The reason they aren't though is because of the perimeter oriented game created by rule changes over the years. Now of course, if a young Shaq, with all that marketability came along I'm sure those rules would magically reappear, lol. Bigs like Ewing, Hakeem, DRob, Kareem, and a few others were basically able to play the same as any great big today. Probably even Wilt with the shot he did actually have. Just now they step back to the 3 a little more often. Any one of those bigs would be even more dominant today and adapt to the game as such.

 

[The_Jamal]

With the success of Miami and other under the radar players, I think there's plenty of NBA talents who just don't get the opportunity. With a team like Miami, they're patient and actually willing to see it through with their players. Maybe even more important, they're willing to give them consistent rotational minutes. Lot of NBA guys sticking around in the League instead of going overseas to make 4x more money in hopes they'll get called up... but these NBA teams won't take a shot on them unless it's a 10-day signing with 5 games left in the season..

But looking at those successful "sleeper" prospects, high ball IQ seems to be the common denominator in most cases. I think some fans got too used to Vlade missing on his mid/late 1st round draft picks (Papagiannis, Jackson, Giles, Malachi, and Skal) that might lead them to assuming that the 24th pick isn't valuable.. which is the furthest thing from the truth. Monte hasn't done a very good job with his 2nd round picks, but he'll need to hit the Pacers one this year. Jaden Hardy stings a lot.... even Gary Trent Jr too (under Vlade). Those two guys were low-risk, high reward players. I wouldn't mind those swings either in the 2nd round.

I don't think this is true at all. Monte hasn't hit with his exact 2nd round picks, but he's been great on the fringes in finding talent that contributes to the main club.

Trey Lyles was a throw-in in the Bagley trade, became a core rotation player and a guy who's became a "must" to resign.

Took Metu off the street, he became a rotation player

Took Damian Jones off the street, he became a rotation player

Acquired Kessler Edwards for cash, he looks like he can be a rotation player

T.Davis for a 2nd round pick. He turned into a rotation player

Acquired Vezenkov rights for a 2nd. This could be the game-breaker trade that we've been looking for from a 2nd round pick investment

Keon Ellis as an UDFA. Certainly has upside to turn into a rotation player

Queta was one of the best players in the G-League last season. It's put up or shut up time for him, but you certainly can't call him a bust pick yet.

Woodard was a bust

Ramsey was a bust

Trading off the Hardy pick was a big oof.

KZ and Moneke had basically no team investment, but if we're including Jones/Metu as wins, it makes sense to include them as losses too.



So by my guesstimation, he hit a double with Lyles, he's hit 3 singles with Metu, Davis and Jones, struck out 5 times with KZ/Moneke/Woodard/Ramsey/trading Hardy pick and has 4 live AB's to add to his batting average with Vezenkov/Queta/Ellis/Edwards.

I think a B makes the most sense as a grade. The Hardy miss looks like it can be incredibly bad, but the Vezenkov deal looks like it can equally be a home-run. Just overall solid amount of NBA contributors that he's found over the last 3 years.

 

[206Fan]

I don't think this is true at all. Monte hasn't hit with his exact 2nd round picks, but he's been great on the fringes in finding talent that contributes to the main club.

Trey Lyles was a throw-in in the Bagley trade, became a core rotation player and a guy who's became a "must" to resign.

Took Metu off the street, he became a rotation player

Took Damian Jones off the street, he became a rotation player

Acquired Kessler Edwards for cash, he looks like he can be a rotation player

T.Davis for a 2nd round pick. He turned into a rotation player

Acquired Vezenkov rights for a 2nd. This could be the game-breaker trade that we've been looking for from a 2nd round pick investment

Keon Ellis as an UDFA. Certainly has upside to turn into a rotation player

Queta was one of the best players in the G-League last season. It's put up or shut up time for him, but you certainly can't call him a bust pick yet.

Woodard was a bust

Ramsey was a bust

Trading off the Hardy pick was a big oof.

KZ and Moneke had basically no team investment, but if we're including Jones/Metu as wins, it makes sense to include them as losses too.


So by my guesstimation, he hit a double with Lyles, he's hit 3 singles with Metu, Davis and Jones, struck out 5 times with KZ/Moneke/Woodard/Ramsey/trading Hardy pick and has 4 live AB's to add to his batting average with Vezenkov/Queta/Ellis/Edwards.

I think a B makes the most sense as a grade. The Hardy miss looks like it can be incredibly bad, but the Vezenkov deal looks like it can equally be a home-run. Just overall solid amount of NBA contributors that he's found over the last 3 years.

I think calling Damian Jones found backup minutes on a really bad Kings team that featured Holmes as our best big. He hasn't seen much PT around the league after his stint with the Kings. TD has always been a rotational player. The only reason why Toronto traded him is because of his arrest.

I think Monte's best moves have been Lyles, Metu, Vezenkov, and Edwards. However, it still doesn't really answer for his lack of 2nd round hits. The sample size is small, but Monte completely missing on Woodard and Ramsey, while trading away the 37th pick in a really deep draft makes me wonder if he doesn't value 2nd round picks that much? Jury is still out on Queta who might not even be on the team next year.

Playing devil's advocate, I'm actually really pleased with the names of 2nd round prospects we've brought in for predraft workouts. TJD, Phillips, Wilson, and Lundy are all solid options at #38.

 

[Ozymandias]

I can’t remember who but someone from the Athletic liked Lundy on the Kings last week

Lundy had a strong combine showing and hes simply a no nonsense 3-and-d wing, he's not gonna create much, negative ast:to guy, he's not some crazy athelete. He's 6'5 and tough with a 6'10 wingspan and has a smooth jumper.

Given where he's currently projected it does make sense that he'd be a decently safe gamble for the Kings in that bottom of the 2nd range.

 

[kingsfan101]

That's only largely because BIGS are no longer really taught how to play with their back to the basket or how to dominate smaller players in the paint.

And there's been a dearth of capable BIGS in the mold of Shaq and Duncan.

I'm certain that if Shaq in his prime played in today's game against smaller players or even BIGS that aren't accustomed defending the post, his near 60% shooting from the floor would increase to between 65-70%. Including the foul trouble he'd cause other teams, there's no team capable of consistently shooting the 45%+ from three that they'd need to average to combat that type of scoring efficiency.

Embiid is the closest thing to a Shaq the NBA has right now and he just won MVP. But he still doesn't stay close enough to the hoop to shoot closer to 60% like Shaq did. If he was used in the same way and they surrounded him with the right type of shooters and slashers, that team would be winning titles.

Think it was Kevin Martin's coach, David Thorpe (IIRC), who once said that Shaq's complete lack of a jump shot from even slightly away from the basket was actually a blessing for him and a problem for the opponents, since it forced him to play near the basket.

 

[Ozymandias]

Branden Carlson who we worked out is returning to Utah to play another season with his brother. Kinda stinks, he woulda fit well here.

 

[Ozymandias]

How bout this report... Wonder if we'll see his name linked to the Kings

"Rayan Rupert is being selective with the teams he visits, prioritizing roster fit and strong development situations on playoff-caliber teams rather than trying to be selected as high as possible"

 

[Tetsujin]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1665817117105725440

this should make a certain someone on these forums very happy

 

[Capt. Factorial]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1665817117105725440

this should make a certain someone on these forums very happy

Seems like there are multiple people that will like this set of prospects.

I know most of the other folks have been quiet on Bates, but I'm certainly open to rolling the dice on him in the second round. 6'10" former projected lotto phenoms with rough college careers aren't always successful reclamation projects, but at this point, we may be filling up on bench rotation players so a high-ceiling project seems worth a shot if he impresses enough in the workout. At least we're doing our due diligence.

 

[Telemachus]

Seems like there are multiple people that will like this set of prospects.

I know most of the other folks have been quiet on Bates, but I'm certainly open to rolling the dice on him in the second round. 6'10" former projected lotto phenoms with rough college careers aren't always successful reclamation projects, but at this point, we may be filling up on bench rotation players so a high-ceiling project seems worth a shot if he impresses enough in the workout. At least we're doing our due diligence.

I also really like Ben Sheppard and Jordan Walsh.

 

[Ozymandias]

Well I'm sure with Bates they already know he can shoot the lights out, cant be left open, he has some shake on the perimeter and the stepback is finely tuned. but he measured quite skinny still at the combine at 179lbs, there's questions about which position he'll play, so its nice to hear they get a look at him up close.

Ben Sheppard seems to be trending somewhere between our 1st and 2nd pick, but he's another guy who all the teams want to see now after the combine. He seems like a guy who'd seamlessly fit into most any lockerroom, definitely loves playing the game.

Jordan Walsh has moved up many draft boards in recent weeks as well, it'd seem we're trying to judge him for the early 2nd rd pick. He definitely seems like a Coach Brown type of player on defense and he can sure get out and run and jump in transition so while he's not going to be some dynamic offensive force he should manage to make a big impact on an uptempo team like ours.

Sheppard in the 1st, Walsh in the 2nd and Bates with the late 2nd? Thoughts?

 

[Dime Dropper]

I really like Trayce Jackson-Davis. He brings shot-blocking and rebounding which we need, and is a very talented passer and scorer. I know he hasn't shown a 3 point shot yet, but he has a nice looking shot and the kind of skill-set to where I think he can develop it.

Plenty of people on this forum want John Collins, I think he is a similar player and may end up being much better than his draft position. He can really play and he's an excellent athlete. He's definitely on my list.

 

[ESP47]

Why is Bates considered a lights out shooter? Career he rocks a FG% of 40 and a 3PT% of 33.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Why is Bates considered a lights out shooter? Career he rocks a FG% of 40 and a 3PT% of 33.

I believe it's a reputation from high school. Bates is definitely no sure thing, which is why he's being mocked in the second. High risk/high reward candidate.

 

[funkykingston]

Well I'm sure with Bates they already know he can shoot the lights out, cant be left open, he has some shake on the perimeter and the stepback is finely tuned. but he measured quite skinny still at the combine at 179lbs, there's questions about which position he'll play, so its nice to hear they get a look at him up close.

Ben Sheppard seems to be trending somewhere between our 1st and 2nd pick, but he's another guy who all the teams want to see now after the combine. He seems like a guy who'd seamlessly fit into most any lockerroom, definitely loves playing the game.

Jordan Walsh has moved up many draft boards in recent weeks as well, it'd seem we're trying to judge him for the early 2nd rd pick. He definitely seems like a Coach Brown type of player on defense and he can sure get out and run and jump in transition so while he's not going to be some dynamic offensive force he should manage to make a big impact on an uptempo team like ours.

Sheppard in the 1st, Walsh in the 2nd and Bates with the late 2nd? Thoughts?

I wouldn't hate it. Two weeks ago I hoped the Kings could get Walsh at 38 and Sheppard at 54. That ship has sailed.

Assuming the Kings re-sign Barnes and Lyles and bring over Vezenkov, the only open spots beyond 2 way contracts will be the 3rd string PG, and the TD spot as a backup 2/3, and a backup center spot. Maybe two backup center spots if they can find a taker for Richaun.

Sheppard would be a different, but good fit in that 2/3 role.

Not that it should influence who you draft too much, but I think the Kings are in a position to take some bigger developmental swings since the starters and major bench players will be set.

If they DO find a taker for Holmes then guys like Clowney and Nnaji have a bit more appeal. I'd say Lively too, but it sounds like he's moved out of reach at this point.

I'm not a huge Bates fan. I'd be tempted to take Isaiah Wong over him at 54.

 

[ESP47]

I believe it's a reputation from high school. Bates is definitely no sure thing, which is why he's being mocked in the second. High risk/high reward candidate.

Thanks sounds like he has a similar story to Cam Reddish, except with two years of college without much improvement. I'd probably pass unless there was no one left on the board I really thought much about.

 

[Ozymandias]

Why is Bates considered a lights out shooter? Career he rocks a FG% of 40 and a 3PT% of 33.

Bates is a lights out shooter, I'm not sure if there's really much debate. At the Combine just weeks ago he only reinforced that by connecting on 83.3 percent of his attempts in the shooting-off-the-dribble drill as he finished tied for first after hitting 25-of-30 from deep. He then took second in the 3-point star drill as he connected on 19-of-25 attempts (76 percent).

While his college %'s leave much to be desired they are a formation of super high volume and some bad teams also just some low quality high difficulty looks. In a spot like here on the Kings, he'd be tasked with much cleaner looks and much fewer shots.

Plus - and it's a big plus, Emoni has a good repitoire for attacking close-outs, he's got a very good step-back J with range out to 3 on it, he can take one or 2 dribbles off a crossover and then pull up, so while he was training to be some sort of superstar there was always this backup plan for him to be dangerous without using the shotclock, and he sure practiced by taking a bazillion 3's.

Some 3pt shooters are known as stationary shooters, he was really trying to showcase that he's not that and he's more dynamic, to drum up lottery or 1st rd hype but alas he'll have to get his foot in the door as a stationary shooter, so its a safe bet he'll shoot better in the NBA. Plus I mean, his shot passes the eyetest to me, that looks good out of his hand for a 6'9 player, good rotation arc, splash thru the net, he gets his feet set and square like a pro nice and quick.

 

[kingsfan101]

Depends on who's available of course, but my preference would be for the Kings to draft a wing.

Our 1 and 5 spots are managed by our 2 best players. We have good players at 2-4, and we hope Keegan will develop into a star, but this is how things stand for now

1. Barnes may not come back. Even if he does, his performance in the PO left a lot to be desired, and it may dip as he ages.
2. Keegan had a fantastic rookie year, and we hope he turns into a star. Huge gap between these two points though, and only time will tell.
3. Lyles played great, and hopefully will be back. His salary will likely be much higher though, and we might have to take a hard look at available trade scenarios for some of the guys once we are due to up Domas and Monk.
4. Sasha: I was expecting a much higher salary than reported numbers, so yay on that. Untested in NBA of course.
5. Monk: Played great. Will likely expect and deserve a pay hike next year.
6. KH: Again, played great, though playoffs was disappointing. Happens. Hope he can shake off the experience, and take his regular season performance to next year.

That's six solid players for 3 spots, with the hope of one turning into a star. That's actually pretty good. However, given that two are currently FAs, one will be a FA next year, and one will be an NBA rookie, we might want to hedge our bets. Plus, given that we have Holmes, and Neemias (hopefully, he provides that athleticism and rim protection), and one of our lottery picks backing Fox at 1, those positions are more set than 2-4.