Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
To be fair to Ben, when he was in, Thompson was relatively quiet.
post home open downer
- Thread starter Siranthony
- Start date
To be fair to Ben, when he was in, Thompson was relatively quiet.
Ugolino
G-League
Dodger fans like myself. What a lousy night.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
I'd like to know from the Kings' historians if after the first game of the season a coach has ever said about his team: "they were unwilling to share the ball"...."they haven't bought in"....."they played selfish ball." Is that a first? If it's a first then we should put this game in the Kings Hall of Shame.
Malone had a month to have his team practice the motion offense. He had several months to get players to "buy in." With eight assists, Collison apparently didn't need an interpreter; everybody else did. Gay looked like a guy with an entirely different agenda than the coach. He stubbornly and "unwillingly" refused to pass the ball and to stop "pounding the ball" and instead embarked upon an iso crusade of epic proportions. Did Malone not know that Gay had not bought in? Did Gay just give Malone the finger? Waa happened? The Kings sucked up to Gay like nobody's business to get him to resign, they paid him $19 million, and Gay repays them with this? The first freaking game.
Malone had a month to have his team practice the motion offense. He had several months to get players to "buy in." With eight assists, Collison apparently didn't need an interpreter; everybody else did. Gay looked like a guy with an entirely different agenda than the coach. He stubbornly and "unwillingly" refused to pass the ball and to stop "pounding the ball" and instead embarked upon an iso crusade of epic proportions. Did Malone not know that Gay had not bought in? Did Gay just give Malone the finger? Waa happened? The Kings sucked up to Gay like nobody's business to get him to resign, they paid him $19 million, and Gay repays them with this? The first freaking game.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
No doubt he thinks he is the guy paid to dribble, iso and shoot.
Larry David
Starter
Rudy Gay has done this to two other fan bases. While he was pretty efficient last year coming off a putrid 18 months in Toronto, he is heading into a contract year and the front office appears to have told him "We are getting rid of the point guard that shot it too much. You and Cousins should be shooting more, and we'll bring in a pass first point guard to get you the ball more." I would expect Gay to shoot a lot this year. On the nights he's on, Kings will be tough to beat. When he's not, considering the level of talent on this team, I think the Kings will have a hard time beating most teams and it will be pretty excruciating to watch.
I'm sure this isn't what Malone wants to see, and Gay and Cousins aren't disinterested in what they are saying. It's just that Gay and Cousins are worried about their shots and numbers AND have their doubts that giving more shots to players 3-9 on the roster actually improves their chances of winning.
twslam07
All-Star
I think the most concerning thing for me this game was Gay.
I understand being a Sacramento team limits your options on what types of players you can bring in which is why myself and others were hoping/praying he would buy in and be the 2013-2014 Sacramento Rudy and not the 2013-2014 Toronto Rudy. He's a very talented player, and I'm not sure where this franchise will be able to go if he doesn't become the player we need him to be. If he keeps playing like he did last night, we won't be able to win a championship with him. We would be better off cutting ties after the season.
However, releasing him is just another talent bleed. How will we be competitive with a team of Cousins, Thompson, Landry, Moreland, McLemore, Stauskas, Collison, Sessions, & McCallum? There is not enough talent and it will make it even harder to lure a big time name here if we are the same bottom dwelling Kings we have come to know. If this happens, I just don't really see any other option other than building this team through the draft. Some might say Cousins will leave if that happens which is a definite possibility, but how are we going to be able to put together a playoff team in the West if we let Gay go or we resign Gay and he continues to play like he did in Toronto? I guess we'll have to hope PDA can work some incredible magic.
I'm really worried for this team. To me, this season is all about Gay. Showing he is in fact the 2nd option we need next to Cousins is the most important thing this season. Is it important to play better overall? Of course, but this roster (as currently constructed) will not be a championship team. I'm more interested in finding the pieces on this team that can fit into a championship team. In my mind, Cousins can be the cornerstone to that team, but can Gay be the second guy? Only time will tell.
- Collison looked good/steady.
- McLemore was ineffective on offense, but showed something on defense
- Stauskas was alright (ups and downs), but I think he'll settle in just fine. Though he played decent defense as well. It already looks like the bigger stronger guards will be able to take advantage of him, but he should be able to hang with some of the more finesse SGs in the league.
- Thompson was Thompson.
- Cousins could not finish a two footer to save his life tonight. He should be able to bounce back. Those shots are high percentage shots. They should be able to fall more often than not.
I understand being a Sacramento team limits your options on what types of players you can bring in which is why myself and others were hoping/praying he would buy in and be the 2013-2014 Sacramento Rudy and not the 2013-2014 Toronto Rudy. He's a very talented player, and I'm not sure where this franchise will be able to go if he doesn't become the player we need him to be. If he keeps playing like he did last night, we won't be able to win a championship with him. We would be better off cutting ties after the season.
However, releasing him is just another talent bleed. How will we be competitive with a team of Cousins, Thompson, Landry, Moreland, McLemore, Stauskas, Collison, Sessions, & McCallum? There is not enough talent and it will make it even harder to lure a big time name here if we are the same bottom dwelling Kings we have come to know. If this happens, I just don't really see any other option other than building this team through the draft. Some might say Cousins will leave if that happens which is a definite possibility, but how are we going to be able to put together a playoff team in the West if we let Gay go or we resign Gay and he continues to play like he did in Toronto? I guess we'll have to hope PDA can work some incredible magic.
I'm really worried for this team. To me, this season is all about Gay. Showing he is in fact the 2nd option we need next to Cousins is the most important thing this season. Is it important to play better overall? Of course, but this roster (as currently constructed) will not be a championship team. I'm more interested in finding the pieces on this team that can fit into a championship team. In my mind, Cousins can be the cornerstone to that team, but can Gay be the second guy? Only time will tell.
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Kingster
Hall of Famer
That's exactly what Malone talked about in the postgame - selfish basketball and lack of trust. Something's going to give: Either Malone's offense or Gay's (and maybe Cousins') lack of buy in.
I just wonder if Malone is the right coach for the Vivek/PDA vision of this team. He's a defensive coach that lacks defenders and is being asked to build an offensive system that he doesn't appear able to do.
It's shocking to watch how little off-ball movement there is. No movement, no screens. Just standing around and at best moving the ball around one side of the court.
It's shocking to watch how little off-ball movement there is. No movement, no screens. Just standing around and at best moving the ball around one side of the court.
IfAt1st
Starter
Y'all are talking about a championship?
A championship?!
Hate to be Captain Obvious here, but this roster (as currently constructed) will not be a PLAYOFF team.
Kings fans should be letting go of this dream of a championship until the Kings can get to be a playoff team.
And to get to the playoffs, they have to be competitive on the court - which they haven't been for 8 years.
Iced Espresso
Starter
Not a good sign.
I don't blame him if he does not respect some of our guys much as far as productive careers, or lengthy ones, we certainly leave a lot to be desired....but....
Hopefully he was speaking of Sessions.
We never would have seen that from the Webber days here, that kind of comment, nor would the Spurs.
That could mean lack of coaching, lack of respect for coaching, forced roles, incompetence, or him being selfish...the hero ball.
I don't think he would say such a thing unless annoyed or pissed off. But it is his and Cousins job to set players straight if need be.
To be continued.
FaStRmAn
Starter
I am leaning toward bustville. He has shown absolutely NO progression. He seems totally lost. I think his BBIQ is lower than JT's, which is saying a LOT. If he does not improve in the next 10 games I believe he will be demoted and the BUST label will be firmly stamped on his forehead.
As for the team as a whole.... GAWD they were awful ! So glad they were hyped up for the home opener. The body language was screaming " Here we go AGAIN". They never ran any offense. It was just so awful that I was forced to watch the Giants win another friggin WS because the Kings game was MUST NOT SEE TV. When I flashed back and saw that they were getting blown out it was a chore to sit and watch to the very end. So many problems on this team. Derrick Williams is a JOKE. Casspi is a warm body to throw out on the floor like a sacrificial lamb. It's gotta get better than this right ? They HAVE to acquire an NBA Caliber Power Forward. They got NOTHING from the PF position.
twslam07
All-Star
This whole premise is wrong.
When building a team, a championship should always be on your mind. Many teams can make a playoff team, but they can also handicap themselves by maxing their team potential as only a playoff team. The Atlanta Hawks were a good example of that. What you need to do is build your team with the thought of winning a championship, and the playoffs will come as a by product.
I guess it's not as obvious as you think, captain.
twslam07
All-Star
Some of these comments are wrong.
McLemore looked better on the defensive side of the ball last night. Yeah, he went 0-5, but to say he hasn't progressed after he showed significant improvement on the defensive end last night is not fair. Now maybe he got lucky last night defensively and it turns out he hasn't gotten better in that area, but right now you can't say he hasn't progressed because he has at this point.
As underwhelming as our PFs are, they actually played decently. All three of our PFs boarded well while Landry was able to provide some bench scoring. Other than Landry, our PFs aren't asked to shoot/score, and the reason we lost was because we shot the ball so poorly and turned it over. The PF position is not the reason we lost last night.
Larry David
Starter
It's a roster that's pretty bad. They aren't going to be better from a talent standpoint with most teams. They are neither consistently good on defense or offense, so there is no identity to start from. I have my doubts changing the GM or coach can save this season or perhaps even the next.
Malone is a coach, who might be good if put in the right position, but has no track record as a head coach and will soon be at risk of being yet another first time coach tuned out by his player. That might not happen until the end of next season. That might happen in March. It's an issue. But we just swapped out 95% of the roster to get rid of the "culture of losing" and will be right back a square one, with players that don't know how to win the NBA. So, I doubt this is a viable fix for the Kings problems.
PDA - it's unclear whether he's either good at his job and/or has the same vision and philosophy as his owner.
Vivek - it's unclear whether he's just making new owner mistakes or could be a meddling owner with bad ideas going froward.
I'm not sure you can point to any factor, other than the talent and coachablity of the players, and say "That's what we need to fix" right now.
FaStRmAn
Starter
I have to respectfully disagree. A 2 guard or Shooting Guard should be an efficient scorer. Ben has shown no progress in that area. Defense is important, however the main job of a Shooting Guard is to shoot the ball. I think Ben's defense was helped out a great deal last night by the off night the W's guards were having. Ben is gonna get shots. He had wide open shots. He missed too often to consider his game as progressing. If anything it is stagnant.
The reason we lost the game was Poor Shooting and Poor ball movement. The defense was decent in the first half but it degenerated in the second half. Extremely poor effort by the whole team. Didn't see any emotional lift you would normally see in a Home Opener.
Livinthedream
All-Star
Tell us who was efficient offensively last night.
Albatros
Starter
Ray.
HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
Wonder if he could be referring to Vivek butting into the basketball operations, like telling PDA who to draft and giving Malone bright ideas like Position-less basketball and 4 on 5 defense....
twslam07
All-Star
I'm not arguing that Ben should be better offensively, but when you say he hasn't progressed at all, that's a false statement from what we all saw last night. He was noticeably better on that side of the ball.
Chubbs
Starter
Ryan Hollins.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
No really for us its not. For a lot of teams really. But for us, we need to weld Cousins to this team. That doesn't require a championship yet. It requires consistent multiple playoff appearances with some sign of progress. And life gets easier when you do that too. Guys who didn't buy in, do. And guys who wouldn't pick up the phone when you called, now maybe consider coming to a good team. Your players always get overvalued compared to what people think of them on a lottery team, so you might have better luck moving them.
We really don't need Rudy to be a champsionship #2. Barring a second superstar materializing, that would be years and years away anyway. We do need him to be a 45+win playoff team #2 however.
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
We do not have the talent to have a nothing at SG. There are 50 SGs in the NBA who could have given us more, somehow we don't have any of them.
twslam07
All-Star
You're right that we don't need a championship yet, but we should always be building towards that team. If you're happy with becoming a consistent playoff team to keep Cousins happy, fine. But I'm about building a contender. I understand Cousins has the ability to be one of the best big men to play this game and is absolutely the type of player you want to build a contender around, but the window to get our team on track to becoming a title contender is closing (notice how I said on track). As we continue to bring in these mid level pieces and hold onto these bad contracts, it's only going to make it that much harder to get to that level. Not to mention that we have to hope Gay plays like he did for us last season.
I do see your point and I am in agreement. We can take the approach of just getting to that playoff stage with us maximizing out as just a playoff team (thus keeping Cousins happy). When Cousins contract is up, maybe that is enough to get him to resign, maybe it's not. But if he does resign, I think that is when you better be competing for a championship. At this time, hopefully most of the players on your maxed out 45-50 win team are off the books. From there, you can start to construct your championship team.
But again, I see us living and dying by Gay this year. If Gay reverts back to his Toronto form, we're not going to be good enough to keep Cousins happy because we won't be able to bring in another player of Rudy's talent through free agency. So that means we either resign the toronto version of Gay and hope it's enough to get us to where we need to be to keep cousins happy or we release him and try to get lucky in trades or the draft. After this first game, I think we should all be a little worried when it comes to Gay. However, it's only the first game. Only time will tell, and what it will tell us will be very significant for the Kings future and the Cousins' future with the Kings.
Hoovtrain
All-Star
I'll agree with the OP that Malone does not appear to be a good coach..are they even running an offense out there...team just looked blah. The only guys that really give me any sort of excitement are Cousins and Stauskus..I thought Mccallum showed some promise but unfortunately Collison and Sessions are going to take all his minutes.
Livinthedream
All-Star
So if Ben goes 3-5 and maybe has 1 turnover instead of 2 do we win?
We have bigger issues. The ineffiency at our SG position maybe a symptom of something more detrimental. No matter who we trotted out at SG last year, it was garbage. Same thing last night. 3/10 and bad D is not something either.
But I'm waiting for a few more games under our belt to see what it is we are working with.
We have bigger issues. The ineffiency at our SG position maybe a symptom of something more detrimental. No matter who we trotted out at SG last year, it was garbage. Same thing last night. 3/10 and bad D is not something either.
But I'm waiting for a few more games under our belt to see what it is we are working with.
Hoovtrain
All-Star
And mark my words...they are going to give that guy a ridiculously stupid contract.
oh puhleese. I saw players sneaking peeks at some of the screens when they got a chance. Four years ago the Kings played their home opener on the night of game 7 and the Giants won. Everyone who was there that night knew what was going to happen if the Giants won. I'm not even a baseball fan and I was as caught up in the moment as anyone else.
You want to talk downers? I set my DVR (DishNetwork) to record the pre-game show and the game, something I have done every year as I always attend opening night with my family and friends. So far so good. We get to the game and when we walk in, there are NO PROGRAMS. That has never happened before in the whole time I've attended games. Even the Maloofs at their cheapest had programs. In addition, there were NO OPENING NIGHT GAME PINS. This also sucked. My game pin collection now has a gaping hole where last night's pin should be. Then, to top off the whole evening, I get home from the game about midnight, turn on my TV and get ready to watch only to find that what was recorded was NOT the Kings. I did enjoy seeing Jim Kozimor but not in his current capacity. And I didn't enjoy the KNBR talk show that recorded instead of my Kings.
THOSE ARE DOWNERS.
I haven't read the game thread yet, but watching Ben last night was painful.
McLemore wasn't drafted for his defense, and I'm nowhere near as sold as you are on his "looking better." That's like saying a severed leg looks better when it stops bleeding.
It's time like this I actually miss having a smart phone. I would have loved to post game observations as they were happening. The frustration level with Ben by a vast majority of fans in the arena was palpable. It was only matched by the frustration with our lack of anything resembling a real PF. Looking up to see the patented small ball lineup with Landry at the 5 almost made me hurl. If we don't do something about the 2 and the 4, it's gonna be a long and painful season.
