Positional Rankings: Small forwards

#1
Positional Rankings: Small forwards

By Tony Mejia
CBS SportsLine.com Staff Writer[font=Arial, Helvetica]

The free-agent market is dwindling and training camp remains weeks away, and even though we're as giddy as everyone else that football is back, there is still the matter of satisfying our audience's never-ending hoop jones.

What can stimulate and inspire debate during the dog days of summer? What can keep conversation and interest in the game becoming as flat as LeBron James' jumper looked during Sunday night's Hurricane Relief game?

Over the next six Tuesdays, CBS SportsLine will unveil the top 20 players at each position, culminating with an overall Top 50 list that will no doubt have message boards filled and my inbox overflowing with hate mail.

The first position we'll examine is perhaps the deepest, with nearly half the field having logged All-Star credentials. Let the countdown, and conversations, begin:

1. Tracy McGrady, Houston: Not that the top 10 names on this list aren't all uniquely blessed, but T-Mac is currently the most gifted and developed of the group. This is a guy who can drain 40-foot jumpers like water, get to the rim at will and finish at his whim. He has been doing all that over the past few seasons, but last year, becoming the leader of the Rockets under demanding Jeff Van Gundy, he grew into a complete player. For maybe the first time in his career, he cut no corners on defense, which wasn't hard to notice when he frustrated Dirk Nowitzki into poor outing after poor outing in the first round of the playoffs. Yes, he's failed to win a series, with his teams blowing substantial leads in his past two appearances, but to point the finger at him is not only short-sighted, it's far-fetched. Expect him to help push Yao Ming into the next stage of his development while guiding the Rockets to heights that haven't been reached since the days of "Dream." Houston is his town now, and he represents it well.

2. LeBron James, Cleveland: Undoubtedly, the "King" will eventually claim his throne as the best at his position and the most superior performer in the game, but right now, he's still 20 (won't be 21 until Dec. 30) and has yet to reach the playoffs. Similar to McGrady, that's not his fault, but facts are facts, and until he proves himself on the league's big stage, the top spot can't be bestowed upon him. This is the year we'll see him blossom, armed with a truly dangerous supporting cast for the first time and two years of excellence under his belt. He's the truth, no question about it, and eventually we'll see him routinely rack up triple-doubles in addition to his ever-lasting presence on nightly highlight films. He's the new generation's Michael Jordan/Magic Johnson, and you'll find few in the league who would disagree. Let's not forget though, he's still in a developmental stage, fighting his way through the grind and improving to get that "J" down consistently. Hey, it took M.J. a while to perfect his craft, too.

3. Andrei Kirilenko, Utah: Nowitzki is phenomenal, Manu has rings and a unique flair, but the league's top international is the "Russian Rocket," a super-freak the NBA hasn't seen the likes of. It's rare to see a wing have such an impact defensively, not by shadowing a man but by altering shots, doing so with a sick combination of a ridiculously long frame and remarkable instincts. He's why, if healthy, the Jazz will get back to the playoffs, thanks to his ability to help mask the holes in their perimeter defense. Only 24, he's yet to grasp a mastery of the game on the offensive end, but consider the fact he's averaged more than two blocks a game through his career and take into account Utah's freefall in his absence last season, and his value becomes undeniable. His 3-point shooting percentage has improved every year, and once he makes the perimeter shot a weapon, he'll be unstoppable.

4. Shawn Marion, Phoenix: His disappearance in the latter stages of last season's playoffs put a damper on a phenomenal All-Star season, but his value remains unquestioned. For starters, he played out of position all year, lined up at power forward despite standing barely 6-7. That hasn't stopped him from consistently averaging more than nine boards per game throughout his career, utilizing crazy hops and a strong instinct to work his way into position. With the departure of Quentin Richardson and the acquisition of Kurt Thomas, he'll get to man his natural position and should be dominant. Even his jumper, not the prettiest thing to look at, has developed into a dependable weapon, making him a matchup nightmare.

5. Paul Pierce, Boston: With four consecutive All-Star berths under his belt, it's hard to say he's disrespected, but you know he's not one of the first names that rolls off your tongue when discussing the league's standout performers. A natural scorer, he gets a bad rap for losing his head with teammates and refs, but you never have to question where his heart is. Because of his shortcomings on defense, it's hard to label him a complete player, but you can never argue him being one of the elite at his position.

6. Ron Artest, Indiana: If it weren't for last year's Palace debacle, he'd be higher on this list, right there with Kirilenko given his impact on both ends of the floor. This is a man who doesn't back down from anyone -- remember, he broke Michael Jordan's jaw as he got into shape for his last comeback. He's rugged, yet savvy, schooled in the playgrounds of Queensbridge, where if you weren't both tough and smart, you'd be upsetting somebody, which wouldn't have been a good idea. His perimeter stroke and scoring have improved as a professional, but his biggest attribute remains the ability to guard anyone on the floor, a skill that will undoubtedly push the Pacers to greater heights now that's he's back.

7. Rashard Lewis, Seattle: Last year's breakout season was awarded with an All-Star berth, but he's still this far down because his chronic knee problems can't be overlooked. It cost the Sonics down the stretch and was an issue during the playoffs, though you have to admire his courage in playing through pain despite the tendinitis. No doubt he's a standup guy, but until he conquers the injury woes, he can't be considered among the top five at such a loaded position. That said, he's among the top inside-outside threats at small forward, and at 26, has his best days ahead of him if he can stay healthy.

8a. Corey Maggette, L.A. Clippers: Maybe it's because he's playing for the Clippers, but you'd be hard-pressed to name a player who has averaged over 20 points a game in consecutive seasons who remains as overlooked as Maggette. He's made a living off using his superior strength and athleticism to get to the line, shooting over 80 percent from there over his career. He'll be 27 when the year begins, so he'll be entering his prime at a time when the other L.A. team feels it has to make its move.

8b. Lamar Odom, L.A. Lakers: The difference between Maggette and Odom can't be measured, even though they're such different players. Odom resurrected his career in Miami, brought his rotund package of skills to LaLa land, and struggled without having the ball as often as he would've liked because of the presence of Kobe Bryant. The implementation of the triangle offense, coupled with a year alongside Bryant under his belt, should facilitate a stronger seaspm. He's envisioned as perfect for a Scottie Pippen role, especially if he bounces back strong from the shoulder tear that cut last season short.
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10. Peja Stojakovic, Sacramento: He's still among the NBA's purest shooters, potentially the best of the group. But his inability to carry a team by himself forces him down on the list. Chris Webber, thought to be his biggest problem given how the two clashed, was dealt at the deadline, but Stojakovic's inability to come through in the clutch remained an issue. He simply may be one of those guys who can be an 18-20 point scorer as a complementary player, which would suit the Kings just fine this year considering the development of Mike Bibby and the acquisition of Shareef Abdur-Rahim.

11. Carmelo Anthony, Denver: He's still developing, learning, familiarizing himself with the nuances of the game -- particularly defense -- but there's no question numerous All-Star berths are in his future. It would suit the Nuggets wonderfully if his jumper improves considering how badly they are in need of perimeter punch. Once he becomes a more complete player, Denver will become a title contender. He was dominant in college from the jump; in the pros, he's a fairly big fish in a gigantic pond, particularly at his position.

12. Tayshaun Prince, Detroit: He still has his moments when he loses his head, be it confidence or rhythm, but he's still a fundamental part of why the Pistons have been so successful, which is why you can expect a contract extension to get done for him in the near future. The human spider is still among the league's top perimeter defenders, and his offense continues to improve.

13. Bruce Bowen, San Antonio: Even at 34, he's among the most feared defenders in the game, even considered evil by many opponents. He knows what he can get away with and takes full advantage, but to consider him dirty would be to ignore his phenomenal understanding of positioning, what it takes to get under an opponent's skin and his ability to shadow the best player on the floor. Offensively, his role is limited to that of spot-up shooter, but given his impact on the opposite end of the floor, he might as well be a 20-point scorer.

14. Richard Jefferson, New Jersey: It might surprise people to see him this far down the list, but until he becomes an effective shooter, he's just another super athlete manning this position. He can certainly defend, rise up, finish and run the floor, making him well-suited for the Nets' up-tempo game, but he still makes careless mistakes and hampers his offense due to his lack of production from the perimeter.

15. Grant Hill, Orlando: His remarkable comeback season was cut short once again, but he still has plenty left in the tank provided he can stay healthy. There may not be many more years we can watch a player whose talents would've made him a lock future Hall of Famer, so enjoy him while we can.

16. Jalen Rose, Toronto: There are questions about his defense, but Rose, entering his 11th season, remains a superior ball-handler who can explode for 40 on any given night. It would seem likely that his future is in Toronto, so with that secure, perhaps he'll be under less pressure with trade rumors subsiding.

17. Bobby Simmons, Milwaukee: The league's reigning most improved player inked for the Bucks' mid-level, which should be a significant bargain if he continues his development. Simmons owns one of the NBA's most dependable mid-range jumpers and has emerged as dependable and clutch, displaying characteristics that hint of him being a special player with his best days ahead of him.

18. Antoine Walker, Miami: Once considered among the league's premier players, Walker's reputation has taken a hit from repeated questionable decisions with the ball and the fact that he prefers to always have matters in his hands. That has to change now that he's in South Florida, where he must defer to Shaquille O'Neal and Dwyane Wade and is being envisioned primarily as a perimeter threat who can handle the ball and take a little pressure of his superstar teammates. How he handles that role remains to be seen, particularly if grumblings that he would be less than content playing the three are untrue.

19. Mike Miller, Memphis: He has tremendous skills but has yet to put it all together and become a dominant scorer. This coming year is a big one for it; Eddie Jones, who won't need the ball, replaces Bonzi Wells, who did. Miller should emerge as a consistent 20-point scorer, and if he doesn't, that has to be considered a step backward.

20. Josh Howard, Dallas: Emerging as a dominant defender, Howard was the steal of the 2003 Draft, taken 29th after earning ACC player of the year honors and has made everyone who passed on him look silly by developing into a more complete player by the day. He's a great athlete, according to him, "loves locking up," and is among the better rebounders at his position. If his jumper improves substantially this year, he'll fill Michael Finley's vacancy quite nicely.

Also considered: Quentin Richardson, New York; Luol Deng, Chicago; Andres Nocioni, Chicago; Jarvis Hayes, Washington; Caron Butler, Washington; James Posey, Miami; Josh Childress, Atlanta; Wally Szczerbiak, Minnesota.

http://www.sportsline.com/print/nba/story/8838445
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#3
...Stojakovic's inability to come through in the clutch remained an issue. He simply may be one of those guys who can be an 18-20 point scorer as a complementary player...
And that may be the real crux of the matter. How much are the Kings willing to pay for a 18-20 point complementary scorer?

Pretty good assessment. I'm not sure of all the exact rankings but I think they're close enough for discussion at this point in the pre-season.
 
#5
"Chris Webber, thought to be his biggest problem given how the two clashed, was dealt at the deadline,"

*yawn* Lame, indeed.
 
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VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#6
Taken out of context...

The whole comment is actually spot on:

Chris Webber, thought to be his biggest problem given how the two clashed, was dealt at the deadline, but Stojakovic's inability to come through in the clutch remained an issue.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#8
HndsmCelt said:
Yup, thought it was real unkind to rank Pedja as the 10th best SF in the leage... then I looked at the other 9.
There's just not a slouch in the Top 15 anymore. 5 stud defensive players and then 20pt scorer after 20pt scorer.
 
#10
peja is number 3 or 4....why is AK27 on 3?....is he clutch player?...we don't know...play-off?...zero...unproven totaly...maggetie, odom, lewis over peja?....joke
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#11
starks said:
peja is number 3 or 4....why is AK27 on 3?....is he clutch player?...we don't know...play-off?...zero...unproven totaly...maggetie, odom, lewis over peja?....joke
Sorry, but thinking Peja would rank 3 or 4 is the joke...and I, for one, am not going to be laughing.

Did you actually read the comments that went along with the rankings?
 
#12
VF21 said:
Sorry, but thinking Peja would rank 3 or 4 is the joke...and I, for one, am not going to be laughing.

Did you actually read the comments that went along with the rankings?
In all comments one is common for all of them (maggetie, ak47, odom, marion): IF...healthy (ak47), play in another team (maggetie), play with kobe (odom)......following this if peja make of some play-off clutch shoots, he'll be right after t-mac, artest and james....but up to now, he accomplished more than them

 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#14
There's a difference between "if healthy" and "if pigs suddenly learn to fly."

Sorry, starks, but Peja has had a LONG time to prove he possesses certain special skills and he hasn't done it. He is possibly the best pure shooter in the league and time is running short for him to prove he's either clutch or capable of stepping it up to a top level in the playoffs.

The rankings are partially on what has happened and what could happen, considering the potential of each involved.
 
A

AriesMar27

Guest
#15
but odom? im sorry.... and i actually like odom... but there is no way that he is better than peja....

and tmac is better than lebron.... mcgrady is just to smooth with his game.... he glides to the basket without even knowing it.... the man is unreal....

but what did lewis do to make him better than peja? he has been just as unproven as peja but peja puts up better numbers...

whatever....
 
C

Coach

Guest
#17
Peja is also, quite possibly, the worst rebounder for his size in the entire NBA.

He is a lights out shooter for the first 3 quarters though.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#18
AriesMar27 said:
but odom? im sorry.... and i actually like odom... but there is no way that he is better than peja....

and tmac is better than lebron.... mcgrady is just to smooth with his game.... he glides to the basket without even knowing it.... the man is unreal....

but what did lewis do to make him better than peja? he has been just as unproven as peja but peja puts up better numbers...

whatever....
Its an annual ranking, and quite frankly off of last year's performance Peja is LUCKY to be ranked 10th. To whit, stats + notes for top 14 guys (leaving off Bowen as an astatistical aberration):

McGrady. 25.7pts 6.2rebs 5.7ast 1.7stl 0.7blk
LeBron... 27.2pts 7.4rebs 7.2ast 2.2stl 0.7blk
Artest.... 24.6pts 6.4rebs 3.1ast 1.7stl 0.9blk +defense
Jefferson 22.2pts 7.3rebs 4.0ast 1.0stl 0.5blk
Maggette 22.2pts 6.0rebs 3.4ast 1.1stl 0.1blk
Pierce.... 21.6pts 6.6rebs 4.2ast 1.6stl 0.5blk
Carmelo.. 20.8pts 5.6rebs 2.6ast 0.9stl 0.4blk
Lewis..... 20.5pts 5.5rebs 1.3ast 1.1stl 0.9blk
Peja....... 20.1pts 4.3rebs 2.1ast 1.2stl 0.2blk
Hill......... 19.7pts 4.7rebs 3.3ast 1.5stl 0.4blk
Marion.... 19.4pts 11.3rebs 1.9ast 2.0stl 1.5blk
Odom..... 15.2pts 10.2rebs 3.7ast 0.7stl 1.0blk
Kirilenko.. 15.6pts 6.2rebs 3.2ast 1.6stl 3.2blk +defense
Prince..... 14.7pts 5.3rebs 3.0ast 0.7stl 0.9blk +defense

So that leaves Peja 9th in scoring, 14th in rebounding, 12th in assists, 8th in steals, and 13th in blocks. As I mentioned, lucky to be 10th this time around. I might have plopped him in at #7 or #8 a smideon ahead of a Rashard Lewis, but it would have beena very narrow thing to say the least, and based on career acheivement more than current comparisons. Small forward has simply become one of the deepest and strongest positions in the NBA in the last few years. Everybody seems to have a good one anymore, and many of them are far better rounded than Peja.

P.S. As an aside, look at how YOUNG everybody on that list is -- think Peja might be the 2nd oldest player on the list! All of this SF talent has blossomed and come streaming into the league in the least few years. You go back 3-4 years and Peja is Top 5, but since that time so many good young SFs have either matured or come into the league that he's just part of the pack now.
 
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6th

Homer Fan Since 1985
#19
KiNgMyC said:
I never realized how deep the SF spot is this past few years until i saw this list. A healthy AK would def deserve #3.
I totally agree. When AK47 is healthy, he is one of the top threats in the NBA to record a triple double.
 
#20
Basically, according to this list Peja is the 6th best SF in the league, seeing as how McGrady, James, Pierce and Maggette are basically shooting guards. Don't try and sell them to me as small forwards just because they're slotted there on a boxscore. Marion played power forward all last year and he is on the list.

Minus those 4, the list would look like this

1. Kirilenko
2. Marion
3. Artest
4. Lewis
5. Odom
6. Peja

Artest is as good a defender as kirilenko and better one-on-one, he's also light years ahead offensively and less injury prone. He's as good or better in every category except shot blocking and rebounding. Marion is also better than kirilenko in every category except defense, but he is an above average defender and a great rebounder for his size. Peja and Rashard are basically a wash but I'll take peja any day, Rashard has to prove he can do it for more than 1 season. Odom can fill a stat sheet better than anyone on this list other than kirilenko, but he will never be better than any of these players except possibly lewis as long as Kobe Bryant suits up for that team.

I'd rank them like this...

1. Ron Artest (If he shakes off the rust and can play 70+ games without a suspension)
2. Shawn Marion
3. Andrei Kirilenko
4. Peja Stojakovic - without C-Webb he shouls supposedly play better, possibly a 03-04 type year?
5. Rashard Lewis
6. Odom
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#21
Senor Octubre said:
Basically, according to this list Peja is the 6th best SF in the league, seeing as how McGrady, James, Pierce and Maggette are basically shooting guards. Don't try and sell them to me as small forwards just because they're slotted there on a boxscore.
Ah...the famous "let's move all the competition to other positions" maneuver. ;)

Not sure exactly what you are getting at though -- don't call guys SFs who in fact play SF, and have been doing so for years? All 4 of those guys will certainly be back at SF again this year, were at SF last year so...? Marion will be a SF this year (Thomas/Amare at C/PF), so will Kirlienko (Boozer/Okur), so will Odom (Mihm/Brown). All of those guys on that list will be lining up across from Peja this season. You can't just move guys away because they interfere with a favorite player's ranking.
 
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Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#22
Bricklayer said:
Ah...the famous "let's move all the competition to other positions" maneuver. ;)

Not sure exactly what you are getting at though -- don't call guys SFs who in fact play SF, and have been doing so for years? All 4 of those guys will certainly be back at SF again this year, were at SF last year so...? Marion will be a SF this year (Thomas/Amare at C/PF), so will Kirlienko (Boozer/Okur), so will Odom (Mihm/Brown). You can't just move guys away because they interfere with a favorite player's ranking.
Hey, it's his ranking system, he can do whatever he wants..... ;)
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#24
starks said:
I still think AK47 is overrated player.....he is not better than artest for sure
He's a defensive octopus, and Utah rose and fell with him last year. Vis a vis Artest -- might just be the stability thing.
 

CruzDude

Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
#25
Brick and VF21 are right. Peja is perhaps the best pure shooter-scorer in the league and a mediocure defender but he cannot carry a team and should never be expected to. His personality is not that makeup. Even on the Serbian team when he played he was not the leader. Having said that, maybe Bodiroga is more a leader and still a King draft property. And he just quit the national team yesterday after they exploded losing to France.
 
#26
AriesMar27 said:
but odom? im sorry.... and i actually like odom... but there is no way that he is better than peja....

and tmac is better than lebron.... mcgrady is just to smooth with his game.... he glides to the basket without even knowing it.... the man is unreal....

but what did lewis do to make him better than peja? he has been just as unproven as peja but peja puts up better numbers...

whatever....
Lewis is more athletic and a better defender than Peja. Rashard can also post up and drive to the hoop. Lewis has a more complete game than Peja.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#27
CruzDude said:
Brick and VF21 are right. Peja is perhaps the best pure shooter-scorer in the league and a mediocure defender but he cannot carry a team and should never be expected to. His personality is not that makeup. Even on the Serbian team when he played he was not the leader. Having said that, maybe Bodiroga is more a leader and still a King draft property. And he just quit the national team yesterday after they exploded losing to France.
Bodiroga is definitely more of a leader and clutch player, but unfortunately he's is in decline now. If he'd come over when we first drafted him, or even 3-4 years ago when we and he were both at our peaks, would have been interesting. But he's lost something and must be 33-34 now? Unfortunately that window may have passed for the two sides to get together and make something special happen. No doubt he could still make the team and has worlds of experience over Kevin and Cisco. But really have an impact?...not so sure anymore.
 
#28
While I agree that many of these players are now considered SFs, many have been considered SGs before, so much so that I really don't get the difference between the two positions at some point.
 
#29
VF21 said:
And that may be the real crux of the matter. How much are the Kings willing to pay for a 18-20 point complementary scorer?

Pretty good assessment. I'm not sure of all the exact rankings but I think they're close enough for discussion at this point in the pre-season.
Don't stir the pot VF :E
 
A

AriesMar27

Guest
#30
LPKingsFan said:
While I agree that many of these players are now considered SFs, many have been considered SGs before, so much so that I really don't get the difference between the two positions at some point.
i know.... maggette, pierce, mcgrady, artest and lebron were all at one point sg's.... maybe no so much artest.... but, you know what i mean.....