Playing Time

[dukeswh]

I always enjoy reading more than posting here because everyone seems to be very knowledgeable and really knows what they're talking about. Recently the kings have been struggling with their lackluster play and inconsistency on both ends of the floor, and a lot of people around here have voiced their opinion on what could be the cause of this slump. IMHO, most of the people around here believe that the way Adelman is playing the starters(too many minutes) is finally catching up to them. But the way the bench were playing before you could hardly blame him for that. Now i would like to know what everyone thinks about it. Should Adelman continue playing them with the same minutes? Or should Adelman give more playing time to the bench players(esp. Hart, Corliss and Potapenko)?

 

[chelle]

I'm torn on the issue. As the saying goes, "That is why they pay Coach the money and not me."

I would LOVE to see him rest our main guys - esp Bibby. For all his faults he has carried more games than any of the others and you can tell that he is playing tired. We will need them all to be a bit rested if we have ANY hope of advancing out of round 1.

That being said - we NEED to to keep playing to even make the playoffs. We can cut minutes for some (more even time for SAR and Thomas) but who are we going to put in for Bibby and it work?? Bonzi and Artest need to play to finish getting into good shape (Bonzi) and to learn our offense better (Artest). As in Bibby's case, who do we REALISTICALLY have to put in for Miller for extended minutes?

It's a Catch 22 - Darned if you do and darned if you don't.

 

[VF21]

I think we have a couple of problems:

1. Bibby is playing hurt.
2. Artest is playing hurt.
3. Kevin is hurt and hopefully will be back Tuesday.
4. Garcia has been hurt and we don't know what his recovery level is. (50%, 75%?)
5. Corliss is simply ineffective most of the time, unless you want to put him in solely as a place holder and to dish out a couple of fouls. I love the guy but he started for us a LONG time ago in NBA years.
6. Jason Hart is tolerable as a ball handler and actually not too bad as a defender. Unfortunately, he envisions himself as a shooter.
7. Vitaly = Tag

I would LOVE to see Adelman find a way to get the starters a little more rest, but it's gonna be a tough task to accomplish IMHO.

EDIT: Almost forgot:
8. It's March. Time for Brad to fade into the woodwork...

 

[Entity]

He hasn't had everybody healthy long enough to do it. gets bonzi back and loses Garcia for a few weeks. Now Garcia back and Marting is sidelined for a 2 or 3 games. i think the min should go like this

bibby 36
Bonzi 35
Artest 36
Thomas 30
Reef 30
Miller 36
Martin 35
Garcia 20

 

[Kings113]

Rick said last week he wanted to get the main 7 (8, if Garcia wasn't out) guys going for a number of weeks before the last 18-15 games down the stretch. He said the other guys on the bench will be needed down that stretch, and as we've seen, it started in the Seattle game and has increased since.

 

[Entity]

But quite honeslty on personal view I get up at 4 a.m. everyday I work 12hours a day. I come home and help cook, clean, play with 4 kids. and get 4 to 5 hours sleep a night and i won't make in 10 years what Garcia makes this year. Now i doubt they get up before 9 a.m. every day and on game night are only asked for about 42 min at the most with a 2 or 3 min break every 5 min for timeouts a 5 min breat between quarters and 15 at halftime. Now with the conditioning they have 6 or 7 5 min spurts of energy a night for an average of 4 or 5 million a year with 3 to 4 months off during the summer is not to much to ask. but hey i could be wrong

 

[BMiller52]

But quite honeslty on personal view I get up at 4 a.m. everyday I work 12hours a day. I come home and help cook, clean, play with 4 kids. and get 4 to 5 hours sleep a night and i won't make in 10 years what Garcia makes this year. Now i doubt they get up before 9 a.m. every day and on game night are only asked for about 42 min at the most with a 2 or 3 min break every 5 min for timeouts a 5 min breat between quarters and 15 at halftime. Now with the conditioning they have 6 or 7 5 min spurts of energy a night for an average of 4 or 5 million a year with 3 to 4 months off during the summer is not to much to ask. but hey i could be wrong

It's not that simple man. It doesn't matter what they're getting paid, that doesn't make it any less difficult or tiring. You can say "if I was getting paid Bibby money my shots wouldn't be rimming out at the end and I'd be able to play 48 mins a game for 82 games a season" but that's not true. They're not dogging it out there, they're trying their hardest. The shots hit the front/side of the rim at the end of the game because they're arms/legs are tired and it's harder to aim when you get exhausted. These guys are playing against top notch defenders, not college defenders these guys are the best in the league.Sometimes the other guys just play better and you have to admit it is tiring to play ball 40 MPG for 82 games a season and the playoffs not counting preseason.

 

[Kings113]

Indeed. ^

 

[dukeswh]

It's pretty tough deciding on how to give more rest to the SF, PF and C positions, especially Ron Artest. I believe he's still learning the offense and needs more time to be able to find his place and be comfortable with it. But he has been averaging plenty of minutes and he's the one spending the most energy among the starters. I think this is one of the main reasons why he has been playing erratically lately. I think when Cisco and Bonzi get back to 100% playing shape(and Martin has recovered from his injury), then they should alternate relieving Ron.

 

[LPKingsFan]

He hasn't had everybody healthy long enough to do it. gets bonzi back and loses Garcia for a few weeks. Now Garcia back and Marting is sidelined for a 2 or 3 games. i think the min should go like this

bibby 36
Bonzi 35
Artest 36
Thomas 30
Reef 30
Miller 36
Martin 35
Garcia 20

Unfortunately this looks like the players' respective ages the way they've been playing lately.

 

[Bricklayer]

I have always found it a little puzzling how playing basketball for 30-40min on a given night, with frequent breaks, is THAT exhausting. Nonetheless, it has always seemed to be true, and I suspect the accumulation of little injuries -- minor sprains, strains, bruises and other owies over 6 months of nonstop play also piles up and begins to slow you down.

But now is not the time to start "saving" guys. For what? Its kind of now or never, and we are already IN our playoffs. So burn whatever they have left, and if they all collapse into an exhausted heap in a few weeks, well, they'll have 5 months to recover. Just too late to really save the guys from any appreciable wear and tear via minutee rationing. Even if you shave 5 minutes a game from a guy, you've saved maybe 50 minutes or so by the end of the season? Might as well just play them, and try to dig deep for every win. Skimp on practices if you need to. But we're currently the 8th seed staring down a first round extermination at the hands of the world champs. We've got no margin to play with, and need every single win we can get.

 

[JJ22L]

He hasn't had everybody healthy long enough to do it. gets bonzi back and loses Garcia for a few weeks. Now Garcia back and Marting is sidelined for a 2 or 3 games. i think the min should go like this

bibby 36
Bonzi 35
Artest 36
Thomas 30
Reef 30
Miller 36
Martin 35
Garcia 20

do those minutes add up to a full game? I agree with the idea tho

 

[D-Mass]

I voted keep it the same...but now I've changed my mind after KT's whining tonight...start SAR.

 

[ImaKingsFan]

Maybe Pete should suit up..at least there would be some passing and intensity.

 

[dukeswh]

But now is not the time to start "saving" guys. For what? Its kind of now or never, and we are already IN our playoffs. So burn whatever they have left, and if they all collapse into an exhausted heap in a few weeks, well, they'll have 5 months to recover. Just too late to really save the guys from any appreciable wear and tear via minutee rationing. Even if you shave 5 minutes a game from a guy, you've saved maybe 50 minutes or so by the end of the season? Might as well just play them, and try to dig deep for every win. Skimp on practices if you need to. But we're currently the 8th seed staring down a first round extermination at the hands of the world champs. We've got no margin to play with, and need every single win we can get.

If the kings are winning with this rotation i totally agree with you. But as it is, they have been losing and even lost back to back at HOME to teams without key players. Sure, it could be attributed to other things but certainly being burned out is contributing to it.

 

[VF21]

After tonight, all bets are off. They need a shake-up and I don't know what they can do to get one. I'm not hopeful about Kevin returning any time real soon after seeing how much he favored his leg during warm-ups.

...I am at a loss to even try and explain what's been going on. There is just no rationale I've been able to come up with so I finally voted...let Adelman play the end of the bench. It's not like it's gonna make much difference anyway.

 

[chelle]

Do we have anybody that we can bring up from the D-League? I'm up for giving ANYBODY more playing time at this point. I had voted for keeping it the same. We saw how that has worked. Just simply embarrassing.

 

[BMiller52]

Bench all the starters next game. If they're not going to play like a team and play their hardest(not yell at the refs and smack caron butler over the head the hardest, that's not playing) than they don't deserve to play. Let Garcia, Potapenko, Hart, Corliss, Monia play a game. It'll get ugly but these guys need a wake up call-IMO anyways.

 

[dukeswh]

After tonight, all bets are off. They need a shake-up and I don't know what they can do to get one. I'm not hopeful about Kevin returning any time real soon after seeing how much he favored his leg during warm-ups.

...I am at a loss to even try and explain what's been going on. There is just no rationale I've been able to come up with so I finally voted...let Adelman play the end of the bench. It's not like it's gonna make much difference anyway.

I think the rotation really need a shakeup. Before(preTrade) they were playing the same way and when the lineup was changed it seems like they have been injected with new energy. Maybe they need the same thing again except the energy should come from the bench this time.

 

[shaka zulu]

They should sit Bonzi and let him come off the Bench, He and Ron Together is a Bad balance of players, Both players want to post up and as a Result there is poor spacing and alot of miscommunication and Direction on who's supposed to be where. Ron needs the Post area space exclusively for the first 7-8 minutes of the game, You start Garcia in the backcourt he and Bibby can spread the floor and allow the elbow execution to flow and Ron will have the Room to go into the post to create Draw Double Teams Creating a Balanced multiple wave of attack offensively. Garcia doesn't committ the blatant silly don't move your feet fouls and he alo can help in The turnover Department by having a Second Guy to Bring teh basketball up the floor when Teams double Bibby and Try to take him out the game.




Bonzi hurts the flow by not be able to make Decisions with his lack of Ball control, You have Fransico in there and it free's Bibby up to do what he and Doug christie Did by Trading off initiation responsibility. Bringing Bonzi off the Bench gives the Team offense as the 1st unit get's tired and it also Adds toughness and a Different Defensively with Ron and Bonzi Defending the perimeter together for a Few minutes.



Another problem is palying shareef at the end of the game, Shareef is good coming off the Bench to Add scoring along with Bonzi but to have him just for scoring hurts teh balance, Defensively he is a liability in screen and rolls and Help rotation Defense, Also on loose balls and Defensive Rebounding Down the stretch. Shareef is like a Bob mcadoo player who was Dominate on a Expansion Teams, But playing Real Team chemistry Basketball you want him as Fire power to come off that Bench and give some offense.

 

[kingsfannPDX]

Bench all the starters next game. If they're not going to play like a team and play their hardest(not yell at the refs and smack caron butler over the head the hardest, that's not playing) than they don't deserve to play. Let Garcia, Potapenko, Hart, Corliss, Monia play a game. It'll get ugly but these guys need a wake up call-IMO anyways.

i'm with you on this although adelman would never do it. and i doubt it could get any uglier than what we've been seeing.

 

[kingsfan916]

Bench all the starters next game. If they're not going to play like a team and play their hardest(not yell at the refs and smack caron butler over the head the hardest, that's not playing) than they don't deserve to play. Let Garcia, Potapenko, Hart, Corliss, Monia play a game. It'll get ugly but these guys need a wake up call-IMO anyways.

i am with you too we saw yesterday hor Francisco was the only one hustling and grabbing rebounds..... i love this guy

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

the only other person I'd like to see in the rotation somewhat is Corliss, only because he could add to our half-court situations for 10 or so minutes a game, and he definetely adds muscle. other than that, its fine, 8 deep is fine, when we're healthy. I dont want to see Jason Hart in at all, and Potato is only to be used in case of an emergency.

 

[16to93]

Do we have anybody that we can bring up from the D-League? I'm up for giving ANYBODY more playing time at this point. I had voted for keeping it the same. We saw how that has worked. Just simply embarrassing.

I don't know if you were being sarcastic or not on that part but before you bring someone up from the D-League atleast give Sampson, Monia, and Price a chance before you do...

 

[Entity]

It's not that simple man. It doesn't matter what they're getting paid, that doesn't make it any less difficult or tiring. You can say "if I was getting paid Bibby money my shots wouldn't be rimming out at the end and I'd be able to play 48 mins a game for 82 games a season" but that's not true. They're not dogging it out there, they're trying their hardest. The shots hit the front/side of the rim at the end of the game because they're arms/legs are tired and it's harder to aim when you get exhausted. These guys are playing against top notch defenders, not college defenders these guys are the best in the league.Sometimes the other guys just play better and you have to admit it is tiring to play ball 40 MPG for 82 games a season and the playoffs not counting preseason.

I didn't say say they were dogging and I sure didn't say that quote you had in there about bibby money and rimming out. It was not my point to say they get paid so much they should be playing better. I was simply saying being tired should not be an excuse for proffesional athletes whos JOB is conditioning. Also to point out an obvious point that nobody seems to think about when talking about how tired we must be. UHMMM we are not the only team playing 82 games a year. Sure you can say well bibby averges 40 min or whatever. Most true star starters play 35min to 42 min every night.