ReinadelosReys
Starter
KP said:
::coughpoisoncough::
Peja needs to go
- Thread starter Elektrik
- Start date
::coughpoisoncough::
Odoylerules
Prospect
they don't. they may WANT to trade Webb more, but they realize that in the real world, the way to improve the team is by getting rid of Peja.
Padrino
All-Star
Odoylerules said:
that is not a fair assertion. you can't simply say that trading peja would "improve the team" w/o providing the player we receive in return. it is not so cut and dry....or so black and white. i'll be completely honest...i'm for trading peja, because i believe we should get market value in return before he walks and we get nothing. but i am not for trading peja just to get rid of him....biting on the first opportunity that arises. it's gotta be the right trade, and it may take up until next trade deadline to occur. petrie knows what he's doing, and he's not about to trade his prodigy w/o addressing the needs of the TEAM.
albeitrue
Bench
It's the salaries, unfortunately, that make it impossible to even discuss a Web trade. If Peja was making Web's salary think the screens would be set? I do.Vlad said:
Can't disqualify the salary as being the top motivator to keep a player in the game, and also you can't disqualilfy the salary when considering which player could draw the most trade options.
Why Kings didn't foresee this as being a problem when signing Peja, I don't know. But I bet it doesn't happen today or in the future.
GoGoGadget
All-Star
shaka zulu said:
No.
Please, no.
Not the "different truths" angle.
T
t5chris
Guest
Petrie has been shopping Webber for a few years. That's nothing new. What's new is that Webber's doing great right now, and Peja bad.
Peja chokes in the playoffs, and misses his friend floppy d. Will he ever change from that? That's unknown. But, he has the potential, we saw it last season.
Webber though, he's old, 1/3 of the team's salary, and injury prone. One bad injury, Sacramento's done, unless he opts out of his player option in a few years.
With these facts, they're both looking tradeable.
The only thing is, that Petrie has denied two possible trades so far: artest straight up (Before he beat the crud out of that fat dude), and Odom.
We also know for a fact that Isaiah wants Webber like me for my old 6th grade teacher.
With these facts, Peja might be here until next season. And Webber might be traded.
Though, I think with the recent losing streak and our improved Sonics, Spurs, and Suns, we will be forced to make a move. Most likely with Peja.
Peja chokes in the playoffs, and misses his friend floppy d. Will he ever change from that? That's unknown. But, he has the potential, we saw it last season.
Webber though, he's old, 1/3 of the team's salary, and injury prone. One bad injury, Sacramento's done, unless he opts out of his player option in a few years.
With these facts, they're both looking tradeable.
The only thing is, that Petrie has denied two possible trades so far: artest straight up (Before he beat the crud out of that fat dude), and Odom.
We also know for a fact that Isaiah wants Webber like me for my old 6th grade teacher.
With these facts, Peja might be here until next season. And Webber might be traded.
Though, I think with the recent losing streak and our improved Sonics, Spurs, and Suns, we will be forced to make a move. Most likely with Peja.
t5chris said:
Um, what? And what again?
You do NOT know that Petrie denied possible trades. You also do not KNOW that Petrie has shopped Webber.
FACTS? Please. You're repeating the tired comments most often attributed to Ailene Voisin.
Webber isn't going anywhere. Petrie is not ready to toss away this season.
How do I know? Let's just call it a pretty good hunch based on a lot of experience as a Kings fan.
Just as a hint, you might want to spend some time reading a lot of our threads. We've pretty much been discussing the points you just brought up for a LONG time.
T
t5chris
Guest
VF21 said:
Friday, Aug. 6, 2004
If you'd like to pose a Question of the Day to Conrad Brunner, submit it along with your full name and hometown to </I>Bruno's_mailbag@pacers.com Brunner’s opinions are his own and do not necessarily reflect those of Pacers players, coaches or management.
OF THE DAY
Conrad BrunnerQ. Peja Stojakovic just requested a trade from the Kings. I had heard a rumor that the Pacers may be considering a trade for Peja, maybe (Ron) Artest straight-up. I had also heard that (Larry) Bird loves Peja, and would love to have him in blue and gold. Do you think the Pacers would sacrifice Artest's defensive game in order to gain another perimeter scoring threat in Peja? (From Andy in Elwood, IN)
document.write("E-mail this story");E-mail this story Just about a month remains before start of the Chris Webber Sweepstakes, aka the 2001 free-agent market, and no one is any closer to knowing where he might wind up. Not his dad. Not his friends. Not his teammates in Sacramento. Not his agent, because there is no such person. Not even Webber himself--though if he puts his mind to it, he can get everything he wants out of this experience.
See, the Webber Question isn't really a question. It is a conundrum of what-ifs and maybes and conflicting emotions.
This is the forthcoming scenario set down by someone who knows the issues--a friend and former associate of the King of Kings, who would prefer to keep his identity a secret. And the way this fellow explains it, Webber might be as uncertain as the rest of us about how it is going to turn out, but he knows the power he can wield if he chooses.
It won't be easy, because Webber has fewer options than you think. He can take all the money Sacramento can give him and please his dad, who wants him to stay there more than anyone. He can max out in Houston for six years and play an up-tempo style that he likes with a guard-oriented team that needs him. He can accept a sign-and-trade deal with anyone from New York to Orlando to Los Angeles. He can play for the $4.5 million middle-class exception in any of those places, which he already said he will not do, though sometimes people change their minds.
That's all linear thinking, however. If he uses his imagination, Webber can get everything he wants.
For example, it has been widely assumed that New York is the place to go.
Webber has no problem with the pressures of such a large market, and he welcomes the demands, responsibilities and after-hours choices that come with it.
But does he really believe he can win there more quickly than he could in Sacramento? Of course not--not if the Knicks have to gut their roster to obtain him in a sign-and-trade agreement. And no amount of lobbying by Latrell Sprewell can change that reality.
So most folks are thinking Webber has to balance his desire to win with playing alongside his old Golden State running mate. If he joins a Knicks team that sacrifices Allan Houston and Marcus Camby to acquire him, the Knicks won't be in any position to help Webber achieve his ultimate goal--especially if he has to play center upon Camby's departure.
"Everyone knows what Spree will tell him," one close Webber associate says. "But with Chris and Spree together and nobody else, what are they going to win? No, right now, Chris is a lot closer to the crown where he is, and he knows it."
Indeed, not only do the Kings have as much supporting talent as the Knicks, they have good guys whom he has come to regard as brothers. Once upon a recent time, Webber had serious doubts about the collective heart of his teammates. Now, some believe, he has come to an understanding that Sacramento's players are as competitive as most and that they simply need the right leader to realize the same ambition all players have. (This, despite getting clobbered by the Lakers in the second round, when Webber himself contributed to the sweep by coming up small in two of the four games.) Moreover, he has learned that it is not such a great burden to be The Man--unlike in Washington, where he often deferred to Juwan Howard. In fact, Webber likes it.
But any 28-year-old can have wanderlust. And sometimes they can get greedy.
When that is the case, they usually learn they must play hardball to get what they really want.
Webber can tell the Kings up front that he'll take all the cap space Houston has to offer if they don't cooperate, and they'll be left with nothing. He can tell them to work out an equitable deal with New York but warn Kings G.M. Geoff Petrie that he's not going to accept the sign-and-trade with the Knicks if their roster is shredded.
Does Sacramento comply? Put it this way: Would Petrie rather see Webber stay in the West and receive nothing in return? Or would he rather see Webber on the other coast and get some serviceable players (starting with Kurt Thomas and Glen Rice) via the sign-and-trade route?
Yes, it would be uncharacteristic of Webber to play the jerk, difficult for him to be the tough guy--especially after three years of such astonishing growth. But that's how the business goes sometimes. Webber knows this, and now the ball is in his court. If he can live with the knowledge that he has changed the course of two franchises currently going in opposite directions, then Webber must decide whether he wants to have it all.
No offense, but just because I'm new to the boards doesn't mean you have the right to insult me like that. I've been a Kings fan since WEBBER came on board, and I've watched at least half of the games live every season: if I wasn't listening to them. Yes, I'm a FAN of WEBBER TOO, since his COLLEGE DAYS. But just because YOU AND ME LIKE HIM, doesn't mean THAT HE IS NOT BEING SHOPPED.
Now, I did a quick search to dig up those old articles, about Petrie turning down the Artest for Peja straight up offer. If you do a quick search, you'll find that the Lakers DID IN FACT make offers for peja. The deal is now dead: that's FACT. Therefore TWO DEALS DENIED.
There have been a few articles interviewing Petrie, saying that he's been wanting to move Webber's Big Contract. You've probably heard the Maloofs want to AVOID LUXURY TAX. NOT POSSIBLE with webber's huge contract. There are several articles that ask Petrie if he would trade Webber, could trade Webber, he has not denied it. If he's not denying it, YOU CAN'T DISMISS THE POSSIBILITY.
uolj
Starter
The point is that you do not know that rumors printed in these articles are actually true. You cannot believe everything you read. For example, it was written by some people that there was no way Webber would be playing for the Kings ever again, both in 2001 and in 2004. Both were wrong because they were based on rumors, not facts.t5chris said:
There has never been concrete evidence that says Webber is being shopped at all, so that is not a fact. There is conflicting evidence about the Kings turning down the Artest for Peja deal. Jerry Reynolds was once quoted as saying that he turned down the deal and it was never even discussed by Petrie. That is not a fact, it is just the interpretation of a single quote from many months ago. And finally, it is just rumor that the Lakers and Kings discussed a trade for Peja. Soe of the rumors say the Kings turned down Stojakovic for Odom, some say they offered Stojakovic for Odom. They are all rumors.
Your original post wasn't bad, it's just that you need to be careful about what you call a "fact" and what is just supposition and rumor.
t5chris said:
I didn't insult you but you seem to think you're giving information NO ONE has ever posted before...and you're making a very basic mistake in assuming that simply because something was printed in the paper, it must be true. (BTW, you don't need to use the caps quite so much. My eye-sight is fine, thank you.)
We are a VERY active board. We discuss virtually everything that even contains the word "kings" - capitalized or not.
The post I originally responded to made it sound as though you were bringing new information when, in fact, it was a rehash of a bunch of old stuff. None of those trade proposals were ever confirmed by anyone within the respective organizations; they wouldn't be. You don't talk about deals that were made by not accepted. No GM worth his salt would allow that. It's all supposition and theory by sports writers. Nothing more.
As far as your comment about Petrie saying he would like to move Webber's contract, you're flat out wrong for a variety of reasons. First, Petrie doesn't make those kinds of statements. EVER. I would love to see you point to even ONE article that actually QUOTES Petrie as saying he would like to move Webber's contract. You may find columnists such as Ailene Voisin say it, but you will NOT find anything quoting Petrie. NOTHING!!!!! I'll wait, if you like, while you try and find a DIRECT QUOTE from Geoff Petrie saying he would like to move Webber's contract. Don't worry...I'll still be here when you come back.
You're going to find we're a great board with very active discussions. You need to have your facts at your fingertips around here, because you will be called to defend them.
Welcome to the board and GO KINGS!!!
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