KINGSFAN-FROM-L.A.
G-League
Dude Just Came Up Big Again For The Hornets... Hit A Three With A Sec Left In A Tie Game With Minnesota... Where The Hell Was This Peja When We Had Him??? Jeez
Peja just hit a game winning 3...
- Thread starter KINGSFAN-FROM-L.A.
- Start date
Seriously!!! Where was this Peja before?!?!
The big deal is that he hit 3 clutch shots for the Kings in last 3 years... HE hit more than 3 for Hornets in last two weeks.
We want to know where was this Peja when he was on the Kings.
RS189
G-League
we usually gave it to bibby
Sad thing is when somebody says words Peja and clutch in same sentence a certain airball coms to my mind that could have reversed our fortunes few years back.
I say blame Finley for it!!!
KingsChick
Starter
Sad thing is when somebody says words Peja and clutch in same sentence a certain airball coms to my mind that could have reversed our fortunes few years back.
I say blame Finley for it!!!
^ That never gets old!
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
And I am sure Indiana fans are wondering where Mr. Double Double Ron Artest was hiding all that time too. 
NothinButHoops
Starter
But can he hit them come playoff time, when the games on the line?
Still cool to see him do well...how about Bobby Jackson, has he made a impact?
Still cool to see him do well...how about Bobby Jackson, has he made a impact?
RaY Z
Starter
he's actually trying cuz he enjoys playing there... when he didnt like being here he didnt give any effort.... what an ***...
ParniValjak
All-Star
Well its kind of hard to hit a clutch shot when the play gets called for someone else.
Pedja gets labelled as a choker because of THAT airball. Throughout his career he has hit some big shots but that gets forgotten in the "Pedja is a choker" talk
blitzology
G-League
I'd still rather have Artest.
6th
Homer Fan Since 1985
Dear members,
Do we really have to see the Peja sucks/unclutch vs the Peja walks on water arguments again?
Peja is who he is. When given the opportunity, sometimes he will chuck airballs and sometimes he'll win you the game. Guess what? Sometimes the same thing happens to Bibby, Kobe, <insert any other players name here>.
Do we really have to see the Peja sucks/unclutch vs the Peja walks on water arguments again?
Peja is who he is. When given the opportunity, sometimes he will chuck airballs and sometimes he'll win you the game. Guess what? Sometimes the same thing happens to Bibby, Kobe, <insert any other players name here>.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
At this point they are not really arguments so much as just rehashing the past:
a) Peja was a weenie in the clutch in Sacto -- one of the worst chokers in the league. Talented but nearly entirely gutless on a number of levels. Just the way it was.
b) That said, he has NOT been ths year. Actually ironically overall he has played pretty crappy, but he has stepped up to hit a number of big shots for them in the earlygoing.
So it is what it is. Think the jury's still out on how this entire New Orleans thing works out, especially for those big $$, but right now he seems to be settling back into a role as the #2/#3 man and designated sharpshooter in New Orleans. Still isn't going to grab you a board (has grabbed more than 4 exactly twice). Still isn't going to play through the pain of a bad zit on his chin. And the jury is also still out on the playoffs of course. But at least he's hitting shots for them down the stretch of close games. Its something -- and maybe the confidence of doing it a few times will lead to something like the Webber revelation of '02-'03 when he suddenly realized not only could he hit them, he WANTED to hit them. We'll see. Its possible leaving behind all those years of failure and getting a new start may be helping. Also having Paul there to take the pressure off to be a leader or whatnot.
a) Peja was a weenie in the clutch in Sacto -- one of the worst chokers in the league. Talented but nearly entirely gutless on a number of levels. Just the way it was.
b) That said, he has NOT been ths year. Actually ironically overall he has played pretty crappy, but he has stepped up to hit a number of big shots for them in the earlygoing.
So it is what it is. Think the jury's still out on how this entire New Orleans thing works out, especially for those big $$, but right now he seems to be settling back into a role as the #2/#3 man and designated sharpshooter in New Orleans. Still isn't going to grab you a board (has grabbed more than 4 exactly twice). Still isn't going to play through the pain of a bad zit on his chin. And the jury is also still out on the playoffs of course. But at least he's hitting shots for them down the stretch of close games. Its something -- and maybe the confidence of doing it a few times will lead to something like the Webber revelation of '02-'03 when he suddenly realized not only could he hit them, he WANTED to hit them. We'll see. Its possible leaving behind all those years of failure and getting a new start may be helping. Also having Paul there to take the pressure off to be a leader or whatnot.
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nbrans
All-Star
In your zeal to bash Peja you overlook the fact that Peja wasn't called upon to take the last shot for the Kings, and rarely took (and therefore also rarely missed) the types of shots he is now hitting for the Hornets. If you look at Peja's clutch numbers (4th Quarter, neither team ahead) compared to Bibby's, he stacks up extremely well.
2002/2003:
Peja: 23.9 points per 48 min, 43% shooting
Bibby: 15.9 points per 48, 47% shooting
2003/2004:
Peja: 30.8 points per 48, 47% shooting
Bibby: 28.7 points per 48, 37% shooting
2004/2005:
Peja: 19.6 points per 48, 27% shooting (ok, not good)
Bibby: 23.8 points per 48, 42% shooting
So how that translates into being one of the worst chokers is beyond me. Yeah, Bibby has probably made more game winners, but he's also missed his fair share. I just don't remember Peja having his number called at the end of the game. But I'm sure you'll find a way to blame Peja for that too (rather than blaming Finley, who we really all should be blaming).
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I'm not going to pick nits about what Peja did and didn't do for the Kings. I'm glad he's doing well and I'm perfectly content with the guy we traded him for. It's a win-win situation for the Kings and the Hornets. Not too sure about poor Indiana, however...
EDIT: Oh come on, nbrans. Peja choked more often than he ever saved a game. It just happened. Possibly because of pressure, possibly because we expected more than he could give, etc.
WHY does it have to end up with you calling Brick a player basher again? This has gotten so old and predictable.
Could we maybe just TRY to get back to the topic of Peja doing well in New Orleans? If you really feel the need to bring up the argument about Peja's effectiveness here again - and the ridiculous (IMHO) attempt to compare Bibby's clutch performances with Peja - why not just go into the old threads and read the stuff that's already there?
EDIT: Oh come on, nbrans. Peja choked more often than he ever saved a game. It just happened. Possibly because of pressure, possibly because we expected more than he could give, etc.
WHY does it have to end up with you calling Brick a player basher again? This has gotten so old and predictable.
Could we maybe just TRY to get back to the topic of Peja doing well in New Orleans? If you really feel the need to bring up the argument about Peja's effectiveness here again - and the ridiculous (IMHO) attempt to compare Bibby's clutch performances with Peja - why not just go into the old threads and read the stuff that's already there?
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uolj
Starter
I disagree (although I don't think you say this because you love to "bash" Stojakovic
).You mentioned Webber's 02-03 clutchness turnaround. This sounds very similar to that situation. Webber had one horrible blunder in crunch time early in his career, and was labeled as a choker for good. Same with Stojakovic, except it wasn't a timeout it was an airball. After those events, both players played their normal, average game in clutch situations. Sometimes they made shots, sometimes they missed them, often the ball went somewhere else. Then Webber started demanding the ball in those situations and started to make a few. He never became Jordan, Bryant, or even Bibby clutch, but he got rid of his choker image for those paying attention.
I remember saying on this forum that I wished they would draw up last second plays for Stojakovic so that he could go through the same process. It seemed obvious that he wasn't unclutch, he just didn't demand the ball and didn't get much of an opportunity to shed his own image. It sounds like now the Hornets are doing exactly what I had hoped the Kings would do, and what do you know. He's taking shots and making them.
Point is there is a difference between being a choker and just not being clutch. Stojakovic was never one of the worst chokers, and given the opportunity he has probably been capable of this for a while now. He didn't deserve his image any more than Webber did.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
In your zeal to continue defending every soft weenie every to wear a Kings uni you continue to be immensely selective in the stats to sya the least, or was this yet another dig at Bibby? I do so lose track at times.
Perhaps you could take up Wayman Tisdale's case next? Guy never got he credit he deserved.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
On the contrary BOTH men deserved them. Webb merely overcame his, to the point where he actually DID become clutch at a high level.
Is Peja undergoing something similar? We will see. His job is simpler than Webb's with Paul around -- he just has to see it and shoot it. Nothing to get confused about, no decision to worry about. Just see it and shoot it.
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uolj
Starter
VF21, I remember a few times he didn't choke, and I remember only one specific time he did. If you or somebody else can recollect more than just the airball, that might jog my memory. Until then, I'll trust the impression that I've had and that hasn't changed over the last few years.
About the talk of criticizing Peja but not hating him and all that, I know you aren't referring to me. I generally ignore all that. That's why I can bring in Webber as a comparison. I liked them both and try to be fair to both.
And Bricklayer, as I said, there's a difference between being a choker and just lacking clutchness. They both choked early in their careers, but not perennially, at least to my recollection.
About the talk of criticizing Peja but not hating him and all that, I know you aren't referring to me. I generally ignore all that. That's why I can bring in Webber as a comparison. I liked them both and try to be fair to both.
And Bricklayer, as I said, there's a difference between being a choker and just lacking clutchness. They both choked early in their careers, but not perennially, at least to my recollection.
nbrans
All-Star
Actually, I don't remember ever calling Brick a player basher, but since I got called a playerbasher for saying Webber was "acting like a crybaby" I thought maybe I'd call a spade a spade. Or is it just bashing when you criticize Webber?
In your zeal to continue defending every soft weenie every to wear a Kings uni you continue to be immensely selective in the stats to sya the least, or was this yet another dig at Bibby? I do so lose track at times.
Perhaps you could take up Wayman Tisdale's case next? Guy never got he credit he deserved.
Whenever you're at loss to refute a point with stats or any sort of concrete response do you always just resort to insulting people or distorting their position? I was advocating trading Peja all of last year, I have no great love for him as a player, but I'm also a big fan of setting the record striaght. Calling Peja the biggest choker in the league, as you did, is ridiculous. His clutch stats are perfectly respectable -- and do pray tell how are those stats are selective. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that, rather than your insults.
Peja didn't take many game winning shots because, for better or worse, the ball went to Webber and Bibby. uolj is exactly right, in my opinion. Peja just never had an opportunity to shed his image (for taking a shot, by the way, on a severely sprained ankle -- yeah, never played injured). Now he's taking -- and making -- the shots he never was asked to take with the Kings.
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Kevin's Good Feet
G-League
I don't know what the big surprise is. Set Peja a good screen to get him open and he has a good chance of hitting a shot no matter when in the game it is. Bury him in the corner, set weak screens, or just make him get a shot off by himself and he fails. What is the big surprise?
All this Peja is a choker talk stems from the airball and his disappearing act in the 4th. That comes from two areas, Peja hiding in the corner and Adelman forgetting he was alive. Calling him one of the worst chokers in the league is an extreme exaggeration and requires a selective memory to make that case. He and Bibby were the only ones doing a single thing in the 4th quarter of Game 5 vs. Seattle and I remember someone dismissing that as simply too little too late for his reputation
All this Peja is a choker talk stems from the airball and his disappearing act in the 4th. That comes from two areas, Peja hiding in the corner and Adelman forgetting he was alive. Calling him one of the worst chokers in the league is an extreme exaggeration and requires a selective memory to make that case. He and Bibby were the only ones doing a single thing in the 4th quarter of Game 5 vs. Seattle and I remember someone dismissing that as simply too little too late for his reputation
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VF21, I remember a few times he didn't choke, and I remember only one specific time he did. If you or somebody else can recollect more than just the airball, that might jog my memory. Until then, I'll trust the impression that I've had and that hasn't changed over the last few years.
About the talk of criticizing Peja but not hating him and all that, I know you aren't referring to me. I generally ignore all that. That's why I can bring in Webber as a comparison. I liked them both and try to be fair to both.
And Bricklayer, as I said, there's a difference between being a choker and just lacking clutchness. They both choked early in their careers, but not perennially, at least to my recollection.
erm, uolj? I deleted my comments because I had second thoughts. I am not going down this road again because ... well, I know how it will end up because some people cannot talk rationally about this, and no - I wasn't really referring to you although I had quoted you.
I'm going to focus on the NOW. Peja, Webber - and Doug, Vlade and Bobby - are all part of the team memory. I'd rather think about the present and the future.
yeah, that's it in a nutshell. Criticize Webber and you're immediately set upon.
What a joke...
If you want to continue this, feel free. I'm happy for Peja and I don't think it has to be one or the other.
As far as your "you always do this" or "you always do that" comments, those just aren't germane to the topic at hand. But since most of those jabs were directed at Bricklayer, I'm not going to get further involved.
GO KINGS!
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