Peja- clearing the air

[VF21]

Although I am sorely tempted, I'm not going to pick apart some of the comments Peja made because - quite frankly - I'm beyond tired of reading rhetoric.

If Peja shows up in November and works hard right from the beginning, looks interested and involved, etc. then that will be enough. I've given up having expectations for him to do anything more than an adequate job.

GO KINGS!!!

 

[thesanityannex]

Although I am sorely tempted, I'm not going to pick apart some of the comments Peja made because - quite frankly - I'm beyond tired of reading rhetoric.

If Peja shows up in November and works hard right from the beginning, looks interested and involved, etc. then that will be enough. I've given up having expectations for him to do anything more than an adequate job.

GO KINGS!!!

I agree. The only thing I will add to your list of expectations is that Peja comes fully equipped with a bushy grown beard.

 

[Stojakovic]

And I am thouroughly convinced that Vlade was behind the trade request, and was pouring "venom" in Peja's ear all last year until the Webber trade. Honestly, I think Vlade sabotaged our team.

WTF ?

 

[VF21]

And I am thouroughly convinced that Vlade was behind the trade request, and was pouring "venom" in Peja's ear all last year until the Webber trade. Honestly, I think Vlade sabotaged our team.

Yeah, I'm sure that's it.

 

[bozzwell]

Peja= Basketball's Manny Ramirez. . .just an absolute goofball. Does Peja even know that they keep score? Why would the Kings use him in the post BEFORE he develops a post game? I mean, seriously. I have always wondered how bright Peja is, and this just seals the deal. As outraged as people get about American kids skipping school, some of these Euro cats could have used an extra year or two of high school instead of turning pro at 15.

I also think Brick is correct on the leadership thing. The only leader Peja will ever acknowledge is Vlade. And I am thouroughly convinced that Vlade was behind the trade request, and was pouring "venom" in Peja's ear all last year until the Webber trade. Honestly, I think Vlade sabotaged our team.

His two hours a day is garbage. Most high school kids work on their games more than that in the summer. This man is not worth the max, not even close. His "workout" (weights, plyos, running) should be about two hours a day. . .then comes the skills work. I'm not that outraged, cause it's Peja, but a max player works out HARD in the summers.

Aaah, you're full of it.

Turning pro at 15 does not excuse you from school in Europe. And there is no multiple-answers test at the end, you actually have to participate and learn.

Pedja as Mani Ramirez? Mani is the Money. You can pile up on that guy as much as you like but I only wish Pedja was as good and as "goofy" as Mani.

Two hour a days. Let me know when you actually tried it.

As for Vlade sabotaging Kings: That's a good spin. There are leaders and then there are those who want to be leaders. Enough said.

 

[bozzwell]

I pretty much agree with all you said here. At least he's not bothering to try to B.S. anybody. But I always find it interesting when people respond well to the very same lack of hunger that bothers me about him as a competitor. To some its "aw...isn't he a nice guy?" While to me the same comment reads "nice guy or not, he's neither driven nor hungry".

A couple of random points:

1) his comment about signing with the Kings confirms for me what I already believed -- we will have to pay him the max to resign him. We may or may not have the first crack at it. But if we don't put up the $$$ and some other team does, he's gone.

2) the leadership thing. Peja is not and has never been a leader. Ok. But here is the question that has bothered me ever since the alleged Peja/Webb rift: a) Is Peja simply not a leader, and because he's not a leader, poo poos the idea of leadership, and is simply uninterested in the position himself? That would be ok. In that case he is not a leader, but at least he just stays out of the fray and follows. or... b) does Peja actually DISLIKE leaders. Resent them. Not want to be one himself, but ALSO not want anyone else to be one (except his friend Vlade). That is then a problem. In that scenario Peja is not a leader, but he won't let anybody else be either. That doesn't work. Either way I find the leadership comments ironic and borderline self-serving given his long term association with Vlade and Bodiroga. Leaders are unimportant my ***.

In any case, this article seems to make clear that nothing much has changed. For better or worse Peja will return very much as Peja. I think best case scenario he could actually break 23pts. Rebounding could bounce back to 5+. Assists could be slightly elevated over his norm. Maybe even approach 3 a he has to make more happen. But he's going to miss those passers. So the numbers might be less.

You're onto something here re: leadership thing. I have nothing to support my opinion here but Pedja does strike me as someone who is not and cannot be a leader and at the same time thinks he should be a leader, therefore he cannot handle being led. At the same time, it could be that he just disliked his leaders.

 

[ParniValjak]

the leadership thing. Peja is not and has never been a leader. Ok. But here is the question that has bothered me ever since the alleged Peja/Webb rift: a) Is Peja simply not a leader, and because he's not a leader, poo poos the idea of leadership, and is simply uninterested in the position himself? That would be ok. In that case he is not a leader, but at least he just stays out of the fray and follows. or... b) does Peja actually DISLIKE leaders. Resent them. Not want to be one himself, but ALSO not want anyone else to be one (except his friend Vlade). That is then a problem. In that scenario Peja is not a leader, but he won't let anybody else be either. That doesn't work. Either way I find the leadership comments ironic and borderline self-serving given his long term association with Vlade and Bodiroga. Leaders are unimportant my ***.

That I agree with you whole-heartedly. Even when Peja was elected as a captain of NT he was a pee poor leader. Bodiroga didn't play in that tournament (Eurobasket 2003), Peja was chosen as the leader but it was Jaric who was the true leader on and off the court.

I don't think thats the case. I think its more of a case where Peja would rather be led than be the leader.

 

[ParniValjak]

Peja= Basketball's Manny Ramirez. . .just an absolute goofball. Does Peja even know that they keep score? Why would the Kings use him in the post BEFORE he develops a post game? I mean, seriously. I have always wondered how bright Peja is, and this just seals the deal. As outraged as people get about American kids skipping school, some of these Euro cats could have used an extra year or two of high school instead of turning pro at 15.

I also think Brick is correct on the leadership thing. The only leader Peja will ever acknowledge is Vlade. And I am thouroughly convinced that Vlade was behind the trade request, and was pouring "venom" in Peja's ear all last year until the Webber trade. Honestly, I think Vlade sabotaged our team.

His two hours a day is garbage. Most high school kids work on their games more than that in the summer. This man is not worth the max, not even close. His "workout" (weights, plyos, running) should be about two hours a day. . .then comes the skills work. I'm not that outraged, cause it's Peja, but a max player works out HARD in the summers.

Vlade has much better things to do with his life than make life difficult for the Kings.

This post is pure comedy.

 

[ParniValjak]

You're onto something here re: leadership thing. I have nothing to support my opinion here but Pedja does strike me as someone who is not and cannot be a leader and at the same time thinks he should be a leader, therefore he cannot handle being led. At the same time, it could be that he just disliked his leaders.

Peja can handle being led. Based on his entire career, Peja has great respect for his leaders. He and Vlade are the best of friends. He rates Christie extremely highly and he has shown nothing but respect to his NT leaders in Bodiroga and earlier in his career, Danilovic and Djordjevic.

Its quite simple really, Peja is NOT a leader. Never has been and never will be and quite frankly I don't think he wants to be one either.

 

[Savo]

And I am thouroughly convinced that Vlade was behind the trade request, and was pouring "venom" in Peja's ear all last year until the Webber trade. Honestly, I think Vlade sabotaged our team.

Buahahahahaha!!!

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

The only leader Peja will ever acknowledge is Vlade. And I am thouroughly convinced that Vlade was behind the trade request, and was pouring "venom" in Peja's ear all last year until the Webber trade. Honestly, I think Vlade sabotaged our team.

....


I can honestly say that this isn't the most unlikiley thing I've ever heard... Beyond that, I haven't made up my mind.

 

[Londonking]

. And I am thouroughly convinced that Vlade was behind the trade request, and was pouring "venom" in Peja's ear all last year until the Webber trade. Honestly, I think Vlade sabotaged our team.

.

Venom....sorry, but reading this, it sounds like your off your head mate.
For all i know, you know a darn sight more about the Kings than me, but i dont think this sort of remark does your credibility rating any good at all.

If you'd like to back it up with even some flimsey evidence or the thinnest veneer of factual basis then i'll be the first to apologise, but just based on this particular post you appear to be a sandwich short of a picnic.

 

[VF21]

I just noticed the newest addition to savo's avatar:

An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lions led by a sheep.
~Arab Proverb~

That says a lot...

--------------------------------------------------------------------

About Vlade? I do believe it's possible that Peja may have complained to him right after Vlade signed with the Lakers. And I think it's highly possible that Vlade might have told him if he was that unhappy to ask for a trade. I do not, however, think Vlade poured "venom" in Peja's ear nor do I think he would have done anything to sabotage the Kings. Vlade truly considers Peja as family, so it would not be unusual for him to advise his "little brother" to seek a trade if he was that unhappy. And that would be a good way to get Peja to shut up about it, too... The rest, however, makes no sense whatsoever. Vlade simply isn't that kind of person...

 

[bozzwell]

If anything, I can imagine that Pedja's little fit and trade request would turn out to be much more adversarial if Vlade didn't "pour" some sense into his ear. Remember, Pedja played for only two different teams before joining Kings and got out of the both contracts via litigation route. If he got traded last TDOS, it would have been by far the most amicable separation that he ever went through.

 

[Kingsgurl]

There are leaders and then there are those who want to be leaders

And then there are those who think we don't even need leaders.

 

[GoGoGadget]

And I am thouroughly convinced that Vlade was behind the trade request, and was pouring "venom" in Peja's ear all last year until the Webber trade. Honestly, I think Vlade sabotaged our team.

Dude, you could've just crawled out.

It would have saved us a lot of trouble.

 

[whozit]

I don't really have a problem with his leader comments. He is not a leader. The parts combined must make the whole better and that is a good attitude to have. Wondering who the leader is puts the focus on the individual. It makes that one part greater than the others and that shouldn't be.

It is easier to follow when one is led by example not simple statements or claims.

 

[VF21]

I don't really have a problem with his leader comments. He is not a leader. The parts combined must make the whole better and that is a good attitude to have. Wondering who the leader is puts the focus on the individual. It makes that one part greater than the others and that shouldn't be.

It is easier to follow when one is led by example not simple statements or claims.

What?

A team shouldn't wonder who its leader is; they should know. That's why they elect captains. A strong captain can urge his team forward and get them to be better than the sum of the parts. A weak captain is not only ineffective, he can actually HURT the team by not setting an example at the right time. Having Webber and Vlade as co-captains for several years was really good for the Kings, IMHO. When Vlade left, Webber was selected to be the captain/leader but apparently Peja didn't like the selection. Why? Not because he doesn't think the team needs a leaer but most likely because he was still smarting from having his mentor/friend/hero leave.

You say it's easier to follow when one is led by example. Well, it's impossible to follow if no one is willing to step forward and lead.

Peja has authority issues apparently. He didn't like being called out for his ineffectiveness, either by Webber or Dejan Bodiroga. Is that their fault? I don't think so.

 

[whozit]

I also don't really have a problem with his comments about posting up. If he puts an emphasis on improving going down low it takes away his effectiveness of keeping defenses honest. (over simplification)

If he works on improving his dribblling, passing and rebounding as he stated it should have a bleed over to him being able to post-up. Now for him to walk the talk in those areas.

 

[whozit]

What?

A team shouldn't wonder who its leader is; they should know. That's why they elect captains. A strong captain can urge his team forward and get them to be better than the sum of the parts. A weak captain is not only ineffective, he can actually HURT the team by not setting an example at the right time. Having Webber and Vlade as co-captains for several years was really good for the Kings, IMHO. When Vlade left, Webber was selected to be the captain/leader but apparently Peja didn't like the selection. Why? Not because he doesn't think the team needs a leaer but most likely because he was still smarting from having his mentor/friend/hero leave.

You say it's easier to follow when one is led by example. Well, it's impossible to follow if no one is willing to step forward and lead.

Peja has authority issues apparently. He didn't like being called out for his ineffectiveness, either by Webber or Dejan Bodiroga. Is that their fault? I don't think so.

I think his comment was in regards to the clamor among the fans and media about who the leader was. I may have taken it out of context, but that's how I took it.

“Everybody’s screaming in the newspapers, ‘who is the leader?’ The most important thing is to be a team and for each of us to understand our roles, and not to do anything else. And to know what you’re doing that’s going to make the team better. When you step on the court, you know what to do, and that should be decided by the coaches.”

Rereading it, are those two bolded mutually exclusive or are they in reference to different groups? The first seems to be the fans and the second the team. If a player has the role of leader, that is their role. It is not up to the fans to decide and by an individual claiming leadership doesn't make it so either.

 

[Londonking]

What?

A team shouldn't wonder who its leader is; they should know. That's why they elect captains. A strong captain can urge his team forward and get them to be better than the sum of the parts. A weak captain is not only ineffective, he can actually HURT the team by not setting an example at the right time. Having Webber and Vlade as co-captains for several years was really good for the Kings, IMHO. When Vlade left, Webber was selected to be the captain/leader but apparently Peja didn't like the selection. Why? Not because he doesn't think the team needs a leaer but most likely because he was still smarting from having his mentor/friend/hero leave.

You say it's easier to follow when one is led by example. Well, it's impossible to follow if no one is willing to step forward and lead.

Peja has authority issues apparently. He didn't like being called out for his ineffectiveness, either by Webber or Dejan Bodiroga. Is that their fault? I don't think so.

Webber (pre-knees) was a genuine superstar. He had al the attributes to be an effective leader and there is little doubt in my mind that the Kings were 'his' and he took ownership of the unit on the floor.

Webber's arrtibute list included the ability to inspire and take responsibility AND deliver.

IMHO leaders like Chris arent developed they're born and they take on the mantle when the opportunity arises. They seize it, hug it and its little wonder therefore that the kings unit had Webber's paw prints all over it. Without him its bound to feel 'less' somehow.

None of the exisitng roster appears to have the necessary personal attributes to take over that role, and while each of them have leadership qualities to greater or lesser degree that's just not the same. Maybe Bibby is the best of the bunch in that aspect at the moment, but it may not be enough and it certainly is pale beside the gargantuan leadership rolemodel that was Webber.

All we can do is watch and hope. Im just saying i dont think we should expect any great leader to emerge from this current roster.

 

[Venom]

What's with all the Vlade love? Did last summer not happen? It was pretty obvious that Chris and Vlade had a severe falling out, and then came Peja's trade demand. Peja moped until the Webber deal, then played harder (for Peja at least). Where is the huge leap of faith that I am taking?

Oh, and I've worked on my game for more than 2 hours a day at times in my life, and I wasn't getting paid a dime. Peja has no dedication.

 

[captain bill]

This team was constantly getting shaken up. Chris probably never fully retook the mantle of leader after returning from injury, probably having his pride hurt, among other things. And throughout this year, with all the coming and goings of players, RA was probably the only one who kept the team intact. I expect a more cohesive form to take hold next season, if players actually know who their teammates are and how this team will play. Until then I will reserve judgement.

 

[Londonking]

What's with all the Vlade love? Did last summer not happen? It was pretty obvious that Chris and Vlade had a severe falling out, and then came Peja's trade demand. Peja moped until the Webber deal, then played harder (for Peja at least). Where is the huge leap of faith that I am taking?

Oh, and I've worked on my game for more than 2 hours a day at times in my life, and I wasn't getting paid a dime. Peja has no dedication.

I havent been a fan long enough to argue effectively that Peja doesnt lack dedication. All i can say is he fullfills the rolemodel i expect from him. Maybe other fans here expect and hope for more

I was surpised to read that you thought Vlade sabotaged the Kings. That would be pre-mediated on his part and i really find that hard to believe. I dont see his motive. I do see that he would want to give guidance to his friend (Peja) and that could easily have included trade request talk, but thats not the same as saying Vlade set out to undermine the franchise. (In my opinion)

 

[Venom]

I havent been a fan long enough to argue effectively that Peja doesnt lack dedication. All i can say is he fullfills the rolemodel i expect from him. Maybe other fans here expect and hope for more

I was surpised to read that you thought Vlade sabotaged the Kings. That would be pre-mediated on his part and i really find that hard to believe. I dont see his motive. I do see that he would want to give guidance to his friend (Peja) and that could easily have included trade request talk, but thats not the same as saying Vlade set out to undermine the franchise. (In my opinion)

I'm not saying he intentionally took down the Kings, malice aforethought. But, I believe he was in Peja's ear, telling him stuff about Webber/Bibby, factionalizing the team. That turned into a wasted season. Maybe it would have been wasted anyway, I don't know. But I don't think Peja has the guts to ask for a trade w/out the backing/prodding of Vlade.

 

[VF21]

What's with all the Vlade love? Did last summer not happen? It was pretty obvious that Chris and Vlade had a severe falling out, and then came Peja's trade demand. Peja moped until the Webber deal, then played harder (for Peja at least). Where is the huge leap of faith that I am taking?

Oh, and I've worked on my game for more than 2 hours a day at times in my life, and I wasn't getting paid a dime. Peja has no dedication.

What's with all the Vlade hate?

Why are we revisiting something that has passed? There were a lot of hard feelings and pretty strong discussions but that's over. Let it go.

You're painting a scenario that can never be proven or disproven. Why? This is a board dedicated to the Sacramento Kings. Vlade and Webber were a big part of that team and we owe them a debt of gratitude. It's not about bashing Vlade now, after the fact, nor should it be.

You harped on this endlessly before in your previous incarnation. I say again, please - let it go.

 

[captain bill]

What's with all the Vlade hate?

Why are we revisiting something that has passed? There were a lot of hard feelings and pretty strong discussions but that's over. Let it go.

You're painting a scenario that can never be proven or disproven. Why? This is a board dedicated to the Sacramento Kings. Vlade and Webber were a big part of that team and we owe them a debt of gratitude. It's not about bashing Vlade now, after the fact, nor should it be.

You harped on this endlessly before in your previous incarnation. I say again, please - let it go.

If Finley gets cut, we need someone new to blame.

 

[BLNINJA #81]

So basically, everyone is sayin Peja is a gutless yella-belly. He has a ways to go before that opinion changes, and ducking leadership, his or anyone else, isn't helping his case.

 

[Padrino]

Webber (pre-knees) was a genuine superstar. He had al the attributes to be an effective leader and there is little doubt in my mind that the Kings were 'his' and he took ownership of the unit on the floor.

Webber's arrtibute list included the ability to inspire and take responsibility AND deliver.

IMHO leaders like Chris arent developed they're born and they take on the mantle when the opportunity arises. They seize it, hug it and its little wonder therefore that the kings unit had Webber's paw prints all over it. Without him its bound to feel 'less' somehow.

None of the exisitng roster appears to have the necessary personal attributes to take over that role, and while each of them have leadership qualities to greater or lesser degree that's just not the same. Maybe Bibby is the best of the bunch in that aspect at the moment, but it may not be enough and it certainly is pale beside the gargantuan leadership rolemodel that was Webber.

All we can do is watch and hope. Im just saying i dont think we should expect any great leader to emerge from this current roster.

i think this is a brilliant post. well said, my friend.

 

[bozzwell]

I'm not saying he intentionally took down the Kings, malice aforethought. But, I believe he was in Peja's ear, telling him stuff about Webber/Bibby, factionalizing the team. That turned into a wasted season. Maybe it would have been wasted anyway, I don't know. But I don't think Peja has the guts to ask for a trade w/out the backing/prodding of Vlade.

Pedja SUED his last two teams to break contract. Which part of that sentence do you not understand. Contrast that with Vlade who is/was a consumate pro and an exemplary teammate who pretty much whashed his hands of Pedja (half time show, during broadcast of USA-Serbia friendly in Belgrade last summer).

You are offering inuendo, and I am giving you facts. It's quite cute when you tear down players with "Venom" based on their obvious shortcomings, but when you challenge estabilished reputations and patterns of behaviour that have been documented over career long spans, then you loose me (and your credibility).

And, BTW, I don't believe you that you ever put in two good hours of excercise/practice because you wouldn't dismiss it so easily. Maybe you fooled around in the gym for what looked like two hours to you.