Paul Pierce

Purple Reign

Starter
I was very impressed with Paul Pierce last night. He was flat out the star of the game. He had one play where he blew past Kobe (and remember Pierce is not fast to say the least) drove down the middle of the lane and just threw down a monster dunk on somebody. It was as nasty of a dunk that I have seen all year. On top of that he made every big shot and he gets to the line more than anybody in the league.

My question is where does Pierce fit in as far as an all time Celtic great?

And is he a top 10 player in the league? He sure looked like it last night, and for the most part I think he is one of the more underrated players in the league.
 
pierce is my favorite player and i dont have that many favorite players...... matter of fact i have like 3-4 pierce jerseys.... the dude can flat out ball....
 
yeah he's top ten

1. LeBron James
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Kevin Garnett
4. Tim Duncan
5. Dwayne Wade
6. Allen Iverson
7. Steve Nash
8. Paul Pierce
9. Elton Brand
10. Ron Artest
 
tradepeja said:
yeah he's top ten

1. LeBron James
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Kevin Garnett
4. Tim Duncan
5. Dwayne Wade
6. Allen Iverson
7. Steve Nash
8. Paul Pierce
9. Elton Brand
10. Ron Artest

You're serious about that list?
 
Purple Reign said:
My question is where does Pierce fit in as far as an all time Celtic great?
He has worn out his welcome with most Celtics fans due to perceived selfish play and 2 years of trade rumors leading most to believe he'd rather be playing elsewhere.

I'm afraid to say that as an all time Celtic great he'd be at the bottom of the list if he's even on it. Even though they've hit hard times they are still the most storied team in the league with 3 completely distinct teams that dominated the NBA and unfortunately for Pierce that will always color where he fits in.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
He has worn out his welcome with most Celtics fans due to perceived selfish play and 2 years of trade rumors leading most to believe he'd rather be playing elsewhere.

I'm afraid to say that as an all time Celtic great he'd be at the bottom of the list if he's even on it. Even though they've hit hard times they are still the most storied team in the league with 3 completely distinct teams that dominated the NBA and unfortunately for Pierce that will always color where he fits in.

Is this a fair list:

Celtic Greats (Top 10 in no particular order)
Bill Russell
Larry Bird
Bob Cousy
John Havichek
Kevin McHale
K.C. Jones
Robert Parish
Tom Heinsohn
Sam Jones
Paul Pierce - in his 9th year as a Celtic.
Career highlights

  • 2-time All-NBA Third Team: 2002, 2003
  • 5-time NBA All-Star: 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006
  • NBA All-Rookie First Team: 1999
  • NBA regular-season leader, total points: 2002 (2144)
  • NBA regular-season leader, free throws made: 2003 (604)
http://kingsfans.com/forums/
Boston Celtics Franchise Records

  • Most three-point field goals made, career with 952 (as of February 26, 2006)
  • Most points scored in an overtime period with 13 (12/1/01 vs. New Jersey Nets)
  • Most free throws made in one game with 20 (11/2/02 vs. New York Knicks).
  • Most free throws attempted in one game with 24 (11/5/05 vs. New York Knicks).
  • Most free throws made in one half with 14 (3/2/01 vs. Utah Jazz).
  • Most free throws made in one season with 604 (2002-2003).
  • Most free throws attempted in one season with 753 (2002-2003).
  • Most steals in one game with 9 (12/3/99 vs. Miami Heat).
  • Most free throws made without a miss, playoffs with 21 (Game 1, 2003 Eastern Conference First Round).
  • Most points scored in one half, playoffs with 32 (Game 4, 2003 Eastern Conference First Round).
  • Became the first Celtics player ever to lead the NBA in total points scored after accumulating 2144 points in the 2001-2002 season.
 
tradepeja said:
yeah he's top ten

1. LeBron James
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Kevin Garnett
4. Tim Duncan
5. Dwayne Wade
6. Allen Iverson
7. Steve Nash
8. Paul Pierce
9. Elton Brand
10. Ron Artest

Dirk?
Tracy (not looking so hot this year)?
 
Purple Reign said:
Is this a fair list:

Celtic Greats (Top 10 in no particular order)
Bill Russell
Larry Bird
Bob Cousy
John Havichek
Kevin McHale
K.C. Jones
Robert Parish
Tom Heinsohn
Sam Jones
Paul Pierce - in his 9th year as a Celtic.
Fair list, missing:
Dave Cowens
Frank Ramsey
Both NBA Hall of Famers and major cogs in two of their dynasties.

Almost every Celtics fan would make room for Dennis Johnson on their list, most cry themselves to sleep over his lack of inclusion in the NBA Hall of Fame the way Sox fans cry abour Rice.

The following player's numbers have been retired by the Celtics and have yet to be mentioned:
Jo Jo White
Satch Sanders
Jim Loscutoff (Cowens also wore his # 18)
Don Nelson
Bill Sharman
Ed Macauley (NBA Hall of Famer)
Cedric Maxwell
Reggie Lewis

Other notable Hall of Famers that played for the Celtics but achieved greater recognition on other teams:
Nate Archibald
Bill Walton
Pete Maravich

I would bump Pierce for a lot of these guys plus there are a handful of less recognizable hall of famers that came through the organization as well. If you were going to do just 80s through present he'd have a good shot though.
 
tradepeja said:
yeah he's top ten

1. LeBron James
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Kevin Garnett
4. Tim Duncan
5. Dwayne Wade
6. Allen Iverson
7. Steve Nash
8. Paul Pierce
9. Elton Brand
10. Ron Artest

No Kidd (still the best triple double threat and easily the best defensive point gaurd), no Dirk (like him or not, he has led his team to a very impressive record)?? Jermaine O'Neal and Shaq deserve arguments as well (although they are not having terrific seasons, Shaq although not so dominant is still the best center in the league). I would personally take out Ron and Brand and replace them with some combination of those four.
 
acisking said:
No Kidd (still the best triple double threat and easily the best defensive point gaurd), no Dirk (like him or not, he has led his team to a very impressive record)?? Jermaine O'Neal and Shaq deserve arguments as well (although they are not having terrific seasons, Shaq although not so dominant is still the best center in the league). I would personally take out Ron and Brand and replace them with some combination of those four.

I'll take Ron out and place Dirk in...but Brand is a lock.
 
KiNgMyC said:
I'll take Ron out and place Dirk in...but Brand is a lock.

I would keep Ron and keep Dirk in the top 20 like he is. Compare him to the top talent in the league and he just cant legitimately be ranked in the top 10 IMO.
 
Paul Pierce = The Truth

It's too bad he's been a mediocre cetics team as long as he has, but Pierce is like God in Boston.
 
atxrocker said:
I would keep Ron and keep Dirk in the top 20 like he is. Compare him to the top talent in the league and he just cant legitimately be ranked in the top 10 IMO.

That makes absolutely no sense. He's been in the top heap of players over the last 3 years. His team is in second place in the league and he's easily it's best player. Other than that they have Terry and Howard who are both pretty good but nothing really that special and a long bench. Dampier is pretty average although a pretty good defender, KVH is overrated, Harris is looking better, Diop is a suprise. But to tell the truth, I'm a huge Dirk hater, but if he's not in the top 10 in the league, it doesn't make sense. He's nothing that great defensively, but offensively he's top 5.
 
yeah, i just noticed i left out kidd in that list...but im kinda basing that list on this year basically...hence no shaq, kidd, or J.O. (doubt i'd put J.O. in a top ten list any year though)

But, leaving out Dirk was intentional. He's not a top-ten player. He's a very special player, a 7 footer with one of the sweetest shots in the league, but hes not a good rebounder at his size, can't pass, not great on defense, and has never been the leader of his team. Unlike the other 10 guys on that list.
 
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Man, PP. Since Reggie's retirement, debateably my favorate player, up there with Wade and Ben Wallace. He is just amazing to watch.
 
bigbadred00 said:
That makes absolutely no sense. He's been in the top heap of players over the last 3 years. His team is in second place in the league and he's easily it's best player. Other than that they have Terry and Howard who are both pretty good but nothing really that special and a long bench. Dampier is pretty average although a pretty good defender, KVH is overrated, Harris is looking better, Diop is a suprise. But to tell the truth, I'm a huge Dirk hater, but if he's not in the top 10 in the league, it doesn't make sense. He's nothing that great defensively, but offensively he's top 5.

Then maybe there should be a top ten for offensive and top ten for defensive in this thread. But since there isn't and it just states top ten players period, you have to go with players that are on top both offensively and defensively.
 
Purple Reign's Top 20 NBA Players

1. Kobe Bryant
It pains me to say it. But anybody that can keep that Laker team in playoff contention is the best. Mr. "81". 'Nough said.

2. LeBron James
The Chosen One. Will win multiple NBA titles in Cleveland if he is patient.

3. Steve Nash
One of two franchise players on the Phoenix Suns. Changed the course of a franchise with his presence. Just makes everyone else better. Phoenix is still a championship contender without their impact player.

4. Tim Duncan
Impact Player. Not playing as well in '06 as in previous years. Has not reached a downside yet, but has slowed a tiny bit, but is still the cornerstone of a championship team.

5. Dirk Nowitski
Level of game has risen this year on both sides of the ball. Without question the biggest mismatch in the league. Dallas has a chance to win an NBA Title in '06 because of Dirk.

6. Dwayne Wade
Along with The Diesel, best one-two punch in the league, and Wade is the "One". Has unlimited skills and will win a title with Shaq, but not this year.

7. Kevin Garnett
His play has slipped in '06 due to he needs a change of scenery. The Minnesota Timberwolves would be the Hawks if it wasn't for the "Big Ticket" Will be back on top with a new team.

8. Allen Iverson
It is not his fault that Philly is mediocre. along with Isaiah Thomas and John Stockton the best little man in the history of the game, period, end of discussion. Along with Garnett and Pierce, may need a change of scenery in order to win.

8. Paul Pierce
"The Truth". Has suffered in a mediocre franchise. Is not a franchise player, but can lead a team with supporting cast.

9. Chauncey Billups
He is called "Mr. Big Shot" for a reason. Clearly the best player on the league's best team. The second coming of Avery Johnson in leadership but with far more skills.

10. Tracy McGrady
I put him in reluctantly. In my opinion McGrady is overrated because he does not make players around him better. But is still a top 10 talent and is worthy of the placement.

NEXT TEN (in no particular order)

Jason Kidd
Jermaine O’Neal

Manu Ginobli

Shawn Marion

Shaquille O'Neal
Ben Wallace
Vince Carter
Ron Artest
Richard Jefferson


Richard Hamilton
 
Billups is a great team player, and probably the NBA MVP but he's not top 10 individually

and i still disagree with Dirk being on any top 10 list...oh and Manu isn't even close...c'mon please, i don't think he'd make a top 25
 
SKFFL said:
Then maybe there should be a top ten for offensive and top ten for defensive in this thread. But since there isn't and it just states top ten players period, you have to go with players that are on top both offensively and defensively.

I hate Dirk. I've hated him for a long time but what him and Avery are doing in Dallas is absolutely amazing. Yes Dirk isn't the ideal player, he isn't the greatest defender, but he isn't one of the worst either anymore. Offensively he is awesome, defensively he's solid now. On this list, for instance that a couple of players put up, you have Nash and AI, both are also pretty average defenders.

Right now Dirk is on a better team, he's easily it's best player and very talented.

And this from a guy who has hated Dirk for a long time. He's not the best, but he's very good and has to be a top 10 player this year.
 
tradepeja said:
Billups is a great team player, and probably the NBA MVP but he's not top 10 individually

and i still disagree with Dirk being on any top 10 list...oh and Manu isn't even close...c'mon please, i don't think he'd make a top 25

Top 25 if the list were "Top 25 role players in the NBA"
 
Dirk has improved every year. The biggest knock on him was his defense, but he has become solid at that too. I remember when Peja was compared to him and they were both considered the best international players. Unfortunately, Peja has taken a step back, while Dirk keeps getting better. You can't even compare the two anymore, Dirk is miles ahead.
 
Excerpts From a ESPN Article on Paul Pierce

Since this post was originated, Pierce has gone on to do some even more remarkable things. Here is an excerpt from a Page Two ESPN article on "The Truth";


The Truth comes out

By Bill Simmons
Page 2

I still have the newspaper. In fact, I'm looking at it right now.


It's a yellowed edition of the Boston Globe from May 6, 2005. My father arrived in California that day, travelling cross-country to meet his granddaughter for the first time. He brought the Globe with him. On the front page of the sports section, there's a headline that reads, "Nearly tossed," accompanied by two smaller pictures of Paul Pierce knocking over Indiana's Jamaal Tinsley, and then a larger picture of Pierce frozen in place as Tinsley dropped to the floor.



In the right corner, Shira Springer's game story starts like this: "Ejected from Game 6 last night, Paul Pierce left the floor at Conseco Fieldhouse swinging his green jersey above his head, a gesture certainly intended to taunt the sellout crowd, and allegedly inspire his teammates. It was the final, disgraceful act in a sequence of events that nearly resulted in the Celtics' playoff elimination."



Underneath the pictures, on the bottom half of the page, Bob Ryan's column runs with the headline, "Selfish act could have been team's technical KO." You can practically see the spittle flying out Ryan's mouth as he writes the following words: "... last night we entered a hoop twilight zone in a game that featured the single most unforgivable, untimely, stupid, and flat-out selfish on-court act in the history of the Celtics."

Ten months later, almost to the day, I found that same sports section while cleaning up some clutter in my office. The timing was impeccable: Pierce was in the middle of the greatest hot streak of his career, averaging 34 points a game over a five-week span, even winning individual battles with Kobe, LeBron, Arenas and Iverson. He had broken a Celtics record by scoring 30 points or more in 13 of 14 games; not even Larry Bird ever pulled that off. What stood out was Pierce's unshakable consistency: His game kept thriving even after a 4-for-2 trade and two major injuries, and now he was keeping a depleted Celtics team competitive without overwhelming his teammates and hogging the ball. Even better, he was doing it with a smile on his face and saying all the right things. Even better, he had raised his crunch-time ability to Brady-like proportions.


On Friday, Pierce banked home a 3 to beat the Pacers. On Tuesday, he drilled consecutive 3s in Washington to beat the Wizards (including a buzzer-beater with a degree of difficulty of 9.9). On Wednesday, with the Celtics trailing Philly by four in the final two minutes, he nailed back-to-back 3s for the lead, then made two more free throws to ice the game. After the Philly game, when someone asked him if this was the best win yet, Pierce smiled and said, "Every win is the best win."



For diehard Celtics fans like me, Pierce's career season has been simply astounding to watch on a day-to-day basis -- like having a brooding, underachieving teenaged son who suddenly starts shaking everyone's hand, taking out the garbage, cleaning up his room and bringing home A's. I mean, you hope with these things, you keep your fingers crossed, you keep the faith, but you never actually expect it to happen. Had they traded him last summer to Portland for the No. 3 pick and expiring contracts, I would have been delighted. Now? I wouldn't trade him for anyone in the league other than LeBron and Wade. From the very first exhibition game last October, he's been an absolute joy to watch in every respect. I wouldn't change a single thing about him.

Faced with the potential of the fifth Rebuilding Era in 15 years, stuck with an unlikable nucleus, an overmatched coach and an unhappy superstar that nobody liked, your typical Celtics fan approached this season with the same expression of a whipped boyfriend heading into a chick flick. And then Pierce showed up with a smile on his face, kept saying all the right things, kept giving everything he had. Around December, I started getting e-mails from season-ticket holders who just wanted to tell me, "I don't care that we're blowing close games, it's been worth the money just to watch Pierce every night." When the Internet started buzzing with rumors that he would be traded, Pierce came out and said, unequivocally, that he didn't want to leave, that he wanted to retire as a Celtic. And he kept on killing himself and carrying his team, night after night.



As the trade deadline approached, other teams kept calling and calling, hoping Danny Ainge would be dumb enough to give up Pierce. Well, why would you trade a star player in his prime who wanted to play for you? What kind of message did that send to your fans? Where was the logic in that? Danny kept saying no. When the rumors kept popping up, he finally went on the record and said, "Look, we're not trading Paul Pierce. It's not happening." Pierce would remain a Celtic.


And every Celtic fan breathed a sigh of relief.

For the past five weeks, he's been the best player in the league. Nobody has played at a higher level, nobody has made basketball seem so easy, and nobody has been saddled with a worse supporting cast (not even Kobe). During an improbable 8-4 stretch over the past 12 games, Pierce practically pulled a Jimmy Chitwood playing alongside two veterans with bad knees (Wally Szczerbiak and Raef LaFrentz), two young starters with barely any experience (Delonte West and Ryan Gomes), two fringe youngsters who shouldn't be playing in an NBA nine-man rotation (Tony Allen and Orien Greene), one guy who shouldn't play basketball professionally for a living (Brian Scalabrine), one kid who was in high school last year (Gerald Green), and someone once described as "the human Ebola virus" (Michael Olowokandi). He's also saddled with a coach who has now played the Wizards three times this season without doubling Gilbert Arenas on Washington's final possession of those games, someone who had so much trouble sticking with a nine-man rotation that his general manager proactively sought a 4-for-2 trade to help him out. (Don't get me started.)

What usually happens when an NBA star is stuck in this situation? They pout. They start looking for their own stats. They wonder aloud if their team is truly "committed to winning." After a tough loss, they have an expression that says, "Hey, it wasn't my fault. I didn't ask to play with these crappy guys." Eventually, they push to play somewhere else, and only because they want to be paid like a franchise player without the responsibility of carrying a franchise. That's why McGrady left Orlando. That's why Carter left Toronto. That's why Davis left New Orleans. That's why KG will push to leave Minnesota this summer. The list goes on. In fact, one of the illuminating subplots of LeBron's career has been Cleveland's steady sense of panic about surrounding him with a worthy supporting cast, with the implication being, "We need to get this done, and we need to get this done immediately, or else he might leave for a better team."



But that's been the beautiful thing about Pierce this season: He wants to be a Celtic. He wants to be in Boston when things turn around. He feels like this is his team, for better or worse, that it's his personal responsibility to lead them. For nine straight months, he never said anything otherwise. When they needed him so desperately these last few weeks, he raised his game a notch; now it's reached the point where everyone expects him to come through in close games, where it's surprising when he doesn't come through. You can't attain a higher level as a basketball player.
 
tradepeja said:
yeah, i just noticed i left out kidd in that list...but im kinda basing that list on this year basically...hence no shaq, kidd, or J.O. (doubt i'd put J.O. in a top ten list any year though)

But, leaving out Dirk was intentional. He's not a top-ten player. He's a very special player, a 7 footer with one of the sweetest shots in the league, but hes not a good rebounder at his size, can't pass, not great on defense, and has never been the leader of his team. Unlike the other 10 guys on that list.


In that case I would agree completly. JO certainly is not a top 10 player regardless and Dirk deserves mention because of offense but lack of defense makes it difiicult to put him up there with the best of the best.
 
the thing about dirk is, any player that can be shut down by peja isnt top ten caliber.....
 
tradepeja said:
yeah he's top ten

1. LeBron James
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Kevin Garnett
4. Tim Duncan
5. Dwayne Wade
6. Allen Iverson
7. Steve Nash
8. Paul Pierce
9. Elton Brand
10. Ron Artest

Top 10 is just not enough to include all the great players and big names....I would say we need at least top 15 or 20(so hard to leave alone guys like Dirk, T-mac, Shaq, Kidd, etc.).

But Ron? Sorry, I really like him, but he is not anywhere near to the list...
 
bcfy said:
Top 10 is just not enough to include all the great players and big names....I would say we need at least top 15 or 20(so hard to leave alone guys like Dirk, T-mac, Shaq, Kidd, etc.).

But Ron? Sorry, I really like him, but he is not anywhere near to the list...

I think Ron's defense gets him up into the Top 20 probably. But not Top 10. He's somewhere around wherever Kirilenko falls on these type lists. 15-20 probably.

Let's see:

1) LeBron
2) Kobe
3) Garnett
4) Duncan
5) Wade
6) A.I.
7) Amare
8) Dirk
9) Nash
10) Brand
11) Pierce
12) TMac
13) J. O'Neal
14) S. O'Neal
15) Arenas
16) Allen
17) Big Ben
18) Artest
19) Kirlenko
20) Melo
21) Marion
22) Kidd
23) Bosh
24) Yao (off of recent play)
25) Redd?
26) Richardson?
27) Carter
28) Billups?
29) Hughes?
30) Lewis
31) B. Davis?
32) Gasol?
33) Webber
34) Howard?
35) Starbury?
36) Parker?
37) Bibby?
38) Ginobili?
etc.

Just off the top of my head and probably forgetting people. But a LOT of competition.
 
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