Old Trade Thread (no longer need to post all trades here)
- Thread starter CaminoChaos
- Start date
SLAB
Hall of Famer
Well, Im now pronouncing Bonzi as extremly expendable...So I have come up with this...
Kings Get...
Caron Butler... 16.1 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 2,5 apg
Etan Thomas... 4.7 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 0.2 apg
Antonio Daniels... 7.2 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 2.9 apg
Wizards Get...
Bonzi Wells... 14.6 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 3.1 apg
Kenny Thomas... 8.7 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 1.9 apg
Jason Hart... 3.6 ppg, 1.3 rpg, 1.2 apg
2006 First Round Pick
Change in Team Outlook... +1.1 ppg, -4.7 rpg, -0.6 apg
Kings Lineup...
PG: Bibby/Daniels/Price
SG: Martin/Cisco
SF: Artest/Butler
PF: SAR/E.Thomas/Williamson
C: Miller/Skinner/Sampson
The Kings do it to 100% completly shore up their bench...With that move, we would now have the most wicked bench in the league, to go with one of the top starting units in the league...On paper, this deal looks like a steal for us.
The Wizards do it to get out from under 3 long contracts...Only taking one long one in return...The Thomas' contracts are very similar, so they are a wash. But they get the better of the Thomas', I believe...K-9 is the better player, Etan is the type of banger we need...Also get out from under the Daniles deal, which seems to have flopped so far. Washington does it mostly for cap relief...They are the 8th seed in the East, and not going anywhere anytime soon.
Kings Get...
Caron Butler... 16.1 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 2,5 apg
Etan Thomas... 4.7 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 0.2 apg
Antonio Daniels... 7.2 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 2.9 apg
Wizards Get...
Bonzi Wells... 14.6 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 3.1 apg
Kenny Thomas... 8.7 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 1.9 apg
Jason Hart... 3.6 ppg, 1.3 rpg, 1.2 apg
2006 First Round Pick
Change in Team Outlook... +1.1 ppg, -4.7 rpg, -0.6 apg
Kings Lineup...
PG: Bibby/Daniels/Price
SG: Martin/Cisco
SF: Artest/Butler
PF: SAR/E.Thomas/Williamson
C: Miller/Skinner/Sampson
The Kings do it to 100% completly shore up their bench...With that move, we would now have the most wicked bench in the league, to go with one of the top starting units in the league...On paper, this deal looks like a steal for us.
The Wizards do it to get out from under 3 long contracts...Only taking one long one in return...The Thomas' contracts are very similar, so they are a wash. But they get the better of the Thomas', I believe...K-9 is the better player, Etan is the type of banger we need...Also get out from under the Daniles deal, which seems to have flopped so far. Washington does it mostly for cap relief...They are the 8th seed in the East, and not going anywhere anytime soon.
SacKings384
Starter
Not to say I don't like the palyers the Kings get back. But that's kind of a major overhaul... That's three new players that will get significant playing time. It would completely change the Kings team... Plus a first round pick? With the choices that Petrie has been making, that's a toughy...
SLAB
Hall of Famer
VF21 said:
When SAR is back to complete health, I belive he'll take the starting role back...We saw how Kenny reacted to being a bench player...And even if he remains on his current pace, with reduced minutes the Thomas' are complete washes I believe.
Kevin Martin is a good rebounder, as well...He may not be able to rake in the 8 that Bonzi brings in, but Kevin has shown he can be an athletic rebounder...If he were to get starters minutes every night, I could see him averaging 5-6 rebounds.
And Caron is a pretty good rebounder to boot...I think when everything is looked at, in the end, the rebounding is not as one-soded as it looks on paper.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Hey, I want Etan though. Bring me Etan Thomas!!!
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
That's not my only concern.
Move Bonzi for a serious big, or don't move him at all. We're hardly going to get a better/tougher/better matched with Artest small back for him. Let alone giving up a pick too.
Move Bonzi for a serious big, or don't move him at all. We're hardly going to get a better/tougher/better matched with Artest small back for him. Let alone giving up a pick too.
Slab, I like that trade a lot. If that happens, I can see the Kings becoming a real title contender next year.
E.T. can mask Brad's weakness. So, opposing big men can't just camp out at the Kings' low post and do whatever they want.
SAR is a perfect scoring 6th man that we need.
Didn't Antonio Daniel played some backup point guard for his previous team?
Imagine a lineup like the following:
Brad Miller (scorer and passer)
Etan Thomas (Rebounder and defense)
Ron Artest (complete package)
Kevin Martin (Scorer and decent defense)
Mike Bibby (Shooter and passer)
Sixth man: SAR (scorer)
7th: A better and improved Cisco
8th: Corliss (tough guy)
9th: Skinner (defense, tough guy)
That is a balanced team. We can score and we can defend. That line up definitely can hang with the elite NBA teams.
E.T. can mask Brad's weakness. So, opposing big men can't just camp out at the Kings' low post and do whatever they want.
SAR is a perfect scoring 6th man that we need.
Didn't Antonio Daniel played some backup point guard for his previous team?
Imagine a lineup like the following:
Brad Miller (scorer and passer)
Etan Thomas (Rebounder and defense)
Ron Artest (complete package)
Kevin Martin (Scorer and decent defense)
Mike Bibby (Shooter and passer)
Sixth man: SAR (scorer)
7th: A better and improved Cisco
8th: Corliss (tough guy)
9th: Skinner (defense, tough guy)
That is a balanced team. We can score and we can defend. That line up definitely can hang with the elite NBA teams.
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I like that deal a lot, SLAB. I love Butler, and he would finally be our true sixth man since B-Jax (Evans was similar to being one, but didn't always provide the scoring). He can play on both ends well, and is quite athletic.
Yeah Yanon, Daniels is a true combo-guard. Showing that with Seattle and San Antonio well.
Yeah Yanon, Daniels is a true combo-guard. Showing that with Seattle and San Antonio well.
nbrans
All-Star
While I do think the Kings should trade Bonzi before the deadline I'm not a big fan of Butler, Daniels and Thomas.
Daniels has been one of the biggest disappointments in the entire league this year. Plus he's 30 and he's signed through 2010.
I don't think Butler really fits with the Kings' game. He needs to dominate the ball to be effective, he's not a great passer, and just a so-so defender. This might be personal bias, I've just never really been a fan of his game.
And Thomas is already 27, he's injury prone, and he's signed through 2010.
Trading for these guys would essentially mean that the Kings are giving up their most tradable asset for three underachievers who are signed to long term Kenny Thomas-esque deals. I think the Kings can do better.
Daniels has been one of the biggest disappointments in the entire league this year. Plus he's 30 and he's signed through 2010.
I don't think Butler really fits with the Kings' game. He needs to dominate the ball to be effective, he's not a great passer, and just a so-so defender. This might be personal bias, I've just never really been a fan of his game.
And Thomas is already 27, he's injury prone, and he's signed through 2010.
Trading for these guys would essentially mean that the Kings are giving up their most tradable asset for three underachievers who are signed to long term Kenny Thomas-esque deals. I think the Kings can do better.
macadocious
Starter
What is everyones obsession with Etan THomas? What has this guy ever done?
G GS MIN FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF TOT STL BLK TO PF AST PTS
Season 41 0 14.9 71-141 .504 0-0 .000 51-81 .630 1.2 2.4 3.7 .27 .78 .63 1.78 0.2 4.7
Career 252 25 18.3 598-1197 .500 0-0 .000 419-688 .609 1.8 3.3 5.0 .35 1.05 .98 2.25 0.4 6.4
Do these look like the numbers of a game changing player? And I have never been all that impressed with his D. BTW if he is 6-10 the so is Kenny Thomas!
G GS MIN FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF TOT STL BLK TO PF AST PTS
Season 41 0 14.9 71-141 .504 0-0 .000 51-81 .630 1.2 2.4 3.7 .27 .78 .63 1.78 0.2 4.7
Career 252 25 18.3 598-1197 .500 0-0 .000 419-688 .609 1.8 3.3 5.0 .35 1.05 .98 2.25 0.4 6.4
Do these look like the numbers of a game changing player? And I have never been all that impressed with his D. BTW if he is 6-10 the so is Kenny Thomas!
Diabeticwonder
Bench
I'm torn on the idea of trading Bonzi before the deadline. While there is a chance that he'll go Mobley on us and leave with us getting nothing I also love the prospect of a healthy Bonzi and Artest combo. I agree that the only type of player we trade Bonzi for is a Big, I'm not so sure who we can get back for him.nbrans said:
OvechKiN
G-League
I say no to that trade, because we dont want to lock up anymore salary on the non-essential guys.
An ideal situation is if we can somehow pursue Ben Wallace to sign in Sacramento as he is UFA after this season (I think), and give away KT/Corliss for nothing (maybe for someone like Antonio Davis since his contract expires at the end of the year), and resign Bonzi.
This leaves:
Bibby / Cisco
Bonzi / Martin
Artest / Cisco
Miller / SAR
Wallace / Skinner
Really nice 9-man rotation, but a dream that can happen
An ideal situation is if we can somehow pursue Ben Wallace to sign in Sacramento as he is UFA after this season (I think), and give away KT/Corliss for nothing (maybe for someone like Antonio Davis since his contract expires at the end of the year), and resign Bonzi.
This leaves:
Bibby / Cisco
Bonzi / Martin
Artest / Cisco
Miller / SAR
Wallace / Skinner
Really nice 9-man rotation, but a dream that can happen
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
macadocious said:
The numbers of interest with Etan are always those of 03-04 when he had blossomed into one of the best backup bigs in the league -- a rugged 4/5 combo with muscle and a relentless motor. 24.1min 8.9pts 6.7rebs 1.6blk. The question with him now would be whether the knee problems have robbed him of that sort of capability. Because it wasn't that long ago he was a nearly ideal first big off the bench. Brought energy, toughness, could play either spot. Compare for instance to Pollard's best year with us: 23.5min 6.4pts 7.1rebs 1.0blk. That class of players is great at coming in off the bench and changing the tone of the game + sparking you.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
yanon said:
You're missing his sarcasm -- he is implying that NEITHER player is 6'10". Which is probably right actually. Think Thomas is really 6'9".
Diabeticwonder
Bench
Just make sure that Ron Ron makes the first call to Big Ben at 12:01 am on the day when free agents can talk with other teams. Aren't they as tight as Cat and Francis?OvechKiN said:
DavisAggie
G-League
OvechKiN said:
I was thinking the same thing watching the Minn-Phx game the other night (yeah, I know the Candy Man is on Boston but it still came to mind). Would free cap space for Bonzi. I just think Bibby/Bonzi/Artest could be one of the best 1-2-3 combinations in the league, with KM and ‘Cisco as backups.
macadocious
Starter
I was saying that I thought Etan Thomas was about 6'8" where KT is maybe 6'6" they are both listed taller than they are. Sarcasm was included and abviously missed.
kingkung
Bench
I don't understand why players are not allowed to willingly re-negotiate for smaller contracts. I can understand the trouble for bigger contracts (see: Owens, Terrell), but not for smaller contracts that benefit the team. Vlade claimed he would've done it to keep Jon Barry.
I guess this gives evil team owners leverage to pressure a player to re-negotiate his contract in order to stay on the team. But doesn't this (ditching a player because of his contract), to some extent, happen anyway? Players get bought out and/or traded because of their large contracts all the time. Don't you think some players would have willingly taken a pay cut, if only to remain with their team? IMHO, it just gives players more options, and helps the team as well.
Just wondering if anyone could shed some light on this matter.
I guess this gives evil team owners leverage to pressure a player to re-negotiate his contract in order to stay on the team. But doesn't this (ditching a player because of his contract), to some extent, happen anyway? Players get bought out and/or traded because of their large contracts all the time. Don't you think some players would have willingly taken a pay cut, if only to remain with their team? IMHO, it just gives players more options, and helps the team as well.
Just wondering if anyone could shed some light on this matter.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
On the theory that Bonzi might be moved:
Minnesota Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Eddie Griffin
6-10 PF from Seton Hall
5.3 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 0.6 apg in 20.6 minutes
Marko Jaric
6-7 SG from Serbia-Montenegro (Foreign)
9.5 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 4.8 apg in 32.0 minutes
Incoming
Bonzi Wells
6-5 SG from Ball State
14.6 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 3.1 apg in 34.4 minutes
Change in team outlook: -0.2 ppg, -1.6 rpg, and -2.3 apg.
Sacramento Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Bonzi Wells
6-5 SG from Ball State
14.6 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 3.1 apg in 34.4 minutes
Incoming
Eddie Griffin
6-10 PF from Seton Hall
5.3 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 0.6 apg in 20.6 minutes
Marko Jaric
6-7 SG from Serbia-Montenegro (Foreign)
9.5 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 4.8 apg in 32.0 minutes
Change in team outlook: +0.2 ppg, +1.6 rpg, and +2.3 apg.
Successful ScenarioDue to Minnesota and Sacramento being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Minnesota and Sacramento had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
Although I fear Minnesota might end up getting a bigger boost than we would (KG/Davis/Bonzi = a strong core). Solves the backup PG issue and gives us great length and ballhawking at the backup PG/OG/SF with Jaric & Cisco. And of course would give us a tall young, athletic super-shotblocker psychopath. Unfortunately further clutters a disastrously messy frontcourt, and unless the clutter is cleared with a secondary move, who knows how many minutes Griffin gets with the various other options we have. Also note: Jaric ain't worth his money.
Minnesota Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Eddie Griffin
6-10 PF from Seton Hall
5.3 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 0.6 apg in 20.6 minutes
Marko Jaric
6-7 SG from Serbia-Montenegro (Foreign)
9.5 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 4.8 apg in 32.0 minutes
Incoming
Bonzi Wells
6-5 SG from Ball State
14.6 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 3.1 apg in 34.4 minutes
Change in team outlook: -0.2 ppg, -1.6 rpg, and -2.3 apg.
Sacramento Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Bonzi Wells
6-5 SG from Ball State
14.6 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 3.1 apg in 34.4 minutes
Incoming
Eddie Griffin
6-10 PF from Seton Hall
5.3 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 0.6 apg in 20.6 minutes
Marko Jaric
6-7 SG from Serbia-Montenegro (Foreign)
9.5 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 4.8 apg in 32.0 minutes
Change in team outlook: +0.2 ppg, +1.6 rpg, and +2.3 apg.
Successful ScenarioDue to Minnesota and Sacramento being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Minnesota and Sacramento had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
Although I fear Minnesota might end up getting a bigger boost than we would (KG/Davis/Bonzi = a strong core). Solves the backup PG issue and gives us great length and ballhawking at the backup PG/OG/SF with Jaric & Cisco. And of course would give us a tall young, athletic super-shotblocker psychopath. Unfortunately further clutters a disastrously messy frontcourt, and unless the clutter is cleared with a secondary move, who knows how many minutes Griffin gets with the various other options we have. Also note: Jaric ain't worth his money.
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nbrans
All-Star
I'm not really much of a fan of either of those players. Griffin is career 38% shooter, and while his rebounding and shotblocking are good attributes he can't even find a way to stay on the floor for Minnesota, where they have no size other than Garnett. Plus he's one of the most unsavory characters in the league.
Jaric is sloooooow, and I don't think he really works as a backup point guard -- he's not good enough offensively to compensate for his defensive deficiencies.
Jaric is sloooooow, and I don't think he really works as a backup point guard -- he's not good enough offensively to compensate for his defensive deficiencies.
