Offseason shaping up as a mini-rebuild...and I like it.

Simply put:
Cousins will get max money .
Who do you want giving him that max?

Like it or not, size gets you money. Take a look at McGee. He's relatively useless...is he on an MLE contract? Pull your heads out of the sand and deal with reality. You can punk out a guard/wing talent and maybe, maybe, survive. Do it with a talented center, regardless of attitude, and you're back at ground zero. Cousins's floor is ZBo. His floor. What's his ceiling? We don't know, but I sure as hell don't want the Lakers to find out, unless they are on the receiving end.

Why is this even a discussion?
 
You had just better give Cousins that max extension this summer. An untrained monkey could have turned this thing around by now, and the odds of Cousins eye not wandering to the far more accomplished franchises that will come a knocking go down dramatically if you are going to play the loser again. Let alone if things go poorly, Mac does not impress etc.

Wrap up the big guy and take a dive and you'll kill the momentum in the fanbase, but at least you can maintain hope for the future amongst the 2 or 3 of us still watching by season's end. Don't, and you threaten to inaugurate the "new era" with another 4 or 5 years of losing while you try to get "your" guy rather than working with what you have.

I agree that we should max Cousins! Of course.. as usual.. I agree with Brick once again!

But I don't think the fan support is as fragile as you suggest. If the team plays hard and is a lottery team, I believe the 'momentum in the fan base' will be fine. If Sleep Train becomes a reasonably tough place to come get a win, the team plays hard - there are no off-court DUI dramas or crap like that... then I think the fan momentum will carry into next year just fine. I think we will see a "tank" to some extent.. enough to be the 12th worst team in the league but not the 13th worst. We owe the Cavs a top 12 protected pick next year from the Casspi trade. FO knows this, and FO also understand that you don't want to creep into the bottom playoff tier and lose out on a chance to add an important piece.

The front office will manage expectations this year. The more dramatic the personnel overhaul, the better chance that people "give it a few years". But I think they will focus on the fan experience at Arco. The Maloofs got rid of the little playbill handout last year it was so funny - they just handed out a cheap card with the player numbers... no stats. embarrassing. Hardly any decent half time entertainment. They will focus on all that stuff.. and play hard and scrappy.. and finish hopefully with the 10th worst record or something like that.

Most definitely resign DMC. Definitely 100% for the max do it yesterday.

But I don't think fans will take it too hard if we have a 30-31 win season unless there is some kind of obvious "effort problem"
 
The only reason we're even discussing a rebuild and needing next year's pick is because we lost a star talent in Reke and didn't replace it. That's why we need a top pick next year, to fix the mistake. So I fail to see how losing a star talent, not replacing said star talent and then needing a top pick next year to replace that talent is somehow a smart plan. IMO it's a plan produced by a considerable error. It's arguably damage control.

And adding guys like Vasquez/Landry and other moves to acquire decent talent will probably make us just good enough that Cle gets our pick. That's not smart either. We shouldn't care about next year's pick. Shouldn't even be talking about it. We should have a Reke/MLM/Cuz trio and made/make 2-3 acquisitions for fitting role players, then gunned for the playoffs. Kings want excitement, there's your excitement, not the Wiggins sweepstakes.

I personally would prefer thinking about our young nucleus smashing whatever team sucks bad enough to get Wiggins when we face them in 14-15.

It's a gamble the new regime is taking, no doubt. But there was no guarantee that resigning Tyreke and adding a few pieces would've meant playoffs. Probably borderline at best. They obviously didn't want Tyreke for whatever reasons, and only one team really did for the price. I have to imagine Petrie/Maloof's would've resigned Tyreke, and their track record wasn't so great either in the last few years. I like the decisive direction. Either sign a huge piece like Iggy/Calderon, or let it all go for a season.

Cousins is the key at this point. Extend him.

We're the kids. Mom and dad got divorced. Not being a dick, but that's the situation.
 
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this whole offseason still hinges massively on the next trade. so far, we, once more, have the market on middling bigs and that on undersized chuckers cornered. the team still doesn't fit at all and, if we were to go into the season like that, this lack of fit will make for either reduced minutes or reduced production, as even the pieces we've just acquired are all of a sudden playing in an environment that's not conducive to their talents. all this of course would mean that the value of all those pieces we should be desperately trying to unload depreciates even more (our obvious need to trade them asap having already done its part). if PDA can actually manage to get anything of merit for the likes of Hayes, Thornton, Jimmer, IT or JT, this offseason might yet be alright. if, however, the market for those pieces turns out not to be to his liking and we go into the season with what we have, this is likely going to blow up in his face, especially if he refuses to resign Cousins.

also, and this might be my biggest problem with everything that's been going on so far, the Kings had the 13th best offense last year and were ranked 29th on defense. which of the two is more in need of fixing? and yeah, Malone and Mbah a Moute. cool. however, what you need to have a good defense, more than anything, is a big that can defend. of all the top10 defensive teams, only Miami (ranked 8th) got by without that rim protector guy and they have insane athleticism and an equally insane rotation scheme to make up for that lack. we have neither rim protector nor an overabundance of athleticism, have lost defense in the backcourt and just signed another really bad defender to a long-term deal in the frontcourt. *sigh*.
 
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Rebuild? What rebuild?
Bad contracts are still on the books, one more added (Landry), mismatched pieces...

Right now, FO grade this off season is D- (Mbah making it not F).

Draft: BM - we simply lucked out. FO grade: incomplete, Team: A
Reke for GV, CL and change - talent bleed, long term expensive contract for bench player at position that was not needed. GV rent. FO:F, Team: D
Mbah: That was good move for bench/borderline player at the position of need. Long term marginal move though. FO:A, Team:C

Chasing AI good, chasing ME bad.

None of the tough choices was made.
There is still time, if FO finds the way to get rid of Hayes/Outlaw/Thornton contracts, might reach C- by October. If they manage to get something in return, that can move the grade up.

Right now, nothing except better position for next year lottery is done for long term.
 
I am OK with the mini-rebuild mainly because it's a new front office, and they were likely looking for a fresh start here. I am OK with that, as long as Cousins has his contract extended in a max deal. Like I have said before, i shall reserve my final judgement of our roster until the season begins. That way, we will see whether or not the pieces actually match.

But at the end of the season, i would hate to be a team in the lottery in the 8-14 range. In the 8-10's, we were bad but not enough to get one of the four superstars (although there are other second-tier prospects too, but mising on the superstars and being close would hurt). Now in the 11-14 range, we could lose our pick to Cavs, and it means we were close to being a playoff team but couldn't make it.

At the end of the day, am I so pumped and excited for Kings basketball, I want the season to start already. :) Thankfully we have a Summer League game tomorrow to remove some of the dreadful waiting for Kings basketball we have to do.
 
Chasing AI good, chasing ME bad.

We don't know that Pete was "chasing ME" there is no real evidence of that. Should not count as a strike against this FO. All we have is some journalists and agents exaggerating. I believe our front office agonized over the tough Evans call, but was never anywhere close to offering Tyreke money to Ellis as was often assumed here. Pete isn't so dumb. For all we know, we extended more or less a courtesy offer to Monta that we knew would be turned down.

I had lucky occasion last week to be in earshot of a Kings honcho who was implying that the idea of the Monta pursuit was amusing to him, that it was more or less a head feint and not seriously in the cards. Now that could definitely be company line spin, I don't know. But it sounded sincere.

John Galt = True Believer in Vivek and his boys
 
By definition wouldn't a min-rebuild simply be a repair?

Or just kind of a figment. So far its consisted of a single ill conceived trade, taking our draft pick in order, and a couple of patches. Well, maybe one patch. I don't know what Landry qualifies as since we don't really need him. Guess just to say we signed somebody. In short, we're on a Petrie pace at the moment.
 
More forum warriors already claiming this season a loss acting like the FO messed up. Fun, Fun, Fun


I'm pretty sure we could go 0-82 next season and you'd still find a way to glorify the moves of the FO. So far the moves haven't made sense. End of story. People have a right to express their opinions, just as you have the right to put your faith in the new FO.
 
We are supposedly talking to Nate Robinson which is strangely predictable.

That can't be true can it?

With IT still around that sounds like agent speak drumming up business again. We already have a rep for nonsensical signings and collecting every guard in the league, so use us to drum up business for you guy. :p
 
I'm pretty sure we could go 0-82 next season and you'd still find a way to glorify the moves of the FO. So far the moves haven't made sense. End of story. People have a right to express their opinions, just as you have the right to put your blind faith in the new FO.

fixed that for you
 
fixed that for you


I was originally going to include that word, but decided against it lest I hurt some gentle feelings. Regardless, it IS blind faith given that they haven't done this before. And from what I can see, they're making their rookie mistakes. Shame that we may have to go through the learning curve of a new FO.
 
I was originally going to include that word, but decided against it lest I hurt some gentle feelings. Regardless, it IS blind faith given that they haven't done this before. And from what I can see, they're making their rookie mistakes. Shame that we may have to go through the learning curve of a new FO.

Blind-Faith.jpg


It's easier this way.
 
from what I can see, they're making their rookie mistakes. Shame that we may have to go through the learning curve of a new FO.

Totally agree here, but my hope is that they learn quickly, and if they're as smart as everyone says they are, I think they will. What that will amount to I'm not yet sure.
 
wow lol it seems there is not even going to be an itty bitty short lived truce here where PDA is concerned. i had my hopes up, for naught. It will just be mean-spirited assault after mean-spirited assault on anybody who would pass on the guys on this board (who are granted very bright knowledgable and articulate) in favor of Pete D'Alessandro when it comes to the personnel overhaul for the Kings. People who believe he ought to get a long leash and a couple years to implement his plan are mocked as naive. Relentlessly and meanly.

Pete's not going to reveal his big plan (ok I'm naive enough to believe he has a 3-4 year plan), he is not going to come on this board and defend his moves. So it is just a free for all, a disrespectful onslaught which includes even mocking the guy's appearance. He gets to take blame for a pursuit of Monta Ellis that may not have even happened. He gets to endure wrath for missing on Igoudala although he was never coming here at any reasonable price. He is going to spend the rest of his career with an 0-2 count for many of the people on this board because he made the decision to move on without Tyreke Evans. And even if it all works out, his detractors are going to say he lucked into it.

What is the end game here? Is anything short of PDA's resignation going to work for you guys?

One thing coming out of all this, I have some remorse about some of the very mean stuff I said about Geoff Petrie back in the day. Live and learn.

I just hope some of this stuff dies down by the time the season starts. But it doesn't seem like it right now.
 
wow lol it seems there is not even going to be an itty bitty short lived truce here where PDA is concerned. i had my hopes up, for naught. It will just be mean-spirited assault after mean-spirited assault on anybody who would pass on the guys on this board (who are granted very bright knowledgable and articulate) in favor of Pete D'Alessandro when it comes to the personnel overhaul for the Kings. People who believe he ought to get a long leash and a couple years to implement his plan are mocked as naive. Relentlessly and meanly.

Pete's not going to reveal his big plan (ok I'm naive enough to believe he has a 3-4 year plan), he is not going to come on this board and defend his moves. So it is just a free for all, a disrespectful onslaught which includes even mocking the guy's appearance. He gets to take blame for a pursuit of Monta Ellis that may not have even happened. He gets to endure wrath for missing on Igoudala although he was never coming here at any reasonable price. He is going to spend the rest of his career with an 0-2 count for many of the people on this board because he made the decision to move on without Tyreke Evans. And even if it all works out, his detractors are going to say he lucked into it.

What is the end game here? Is anything short of PDA's resignation going to work for you guys?

One thing coming out of all this, I have some remorse about some of the very mean stuff I said about Geoff Petrie back in the day. Live and learn.

I just hope some of this stuff dies down by the time the season starts. But it doesn't seem like it right now.

Its not going to die down till he's proved that he made the right moves. Some of us believed that we were a couple minor moves away from being good, hence the anger of letting Reke walk for lesser talents.
 
You will not change their opinion. Just let the criers cry.


Au contraire, it is the likes of you who are crying and whinging that others aren't content to go along with every move the FO makes. Man up and either defend the decisions with actual analysis or don't bother posting with that weak s**t. You aren't actually adding anything to the discussion, only crying that people won't go along with the herd mentality.

I will ALWAYS change my opinion when there's evidence. I don't have any agenda. I want what works, I want what wins (long-term and big, not a few extra cheap wins at the expense of true competitiveness). I have changed my opinion on many matters when the facts have begun to form. On the other hand, it is exactly the people who base their opinions on blind faith that are most staunch in their views, simply because faith is, by definition, blind. It is belief without proof or evidence. So cry all you want, but at least we're backing up our views with legitimate analysis. You're the one who can't handle constructive criticism. Nobody here has anything personal against PDA, but you're deluded if you think he gets a free pass for no apparent reason.
 
Au contraire, it is the likes of you who are crying and whinging that others aren't content to go along with every move the FO makes. Man up and either defend the decisions with actual analysis or don't bother posting with that weak s**t. You aren't actually adding anything to the discussion, only crying that people won't go along with the herd mentality.

I will ALWAYS change my opinion when there's evidence. I don't have any agenda. I want what works, I want what wins (long-term and big, not a few extra cheap wins at the expense of true competitiveness). I have changed my opinion on many matters when the facts have begun to form. On the other hand, it is exactly the people who base their opinions on blind faith that are most staunch in their views, simply because faith is, by definition, blind. It is belief without proof or evidence. So cry all you want, but at least we're backing up our views with legitimate analysis. You're the one who can't handle constructive criticism. Nobody here has anything personal against PDA, but you're deluded if you think he gets a free pass for no apparent reason.

Very well stated but this seems to be repeatedly misunderstood by the same 5-6 posters.
 
wow lol it seems there is not even going to be an itty bitty short lived truce here where PDA is concerned. i had my hopes up, for naught. It will just be mean-spirited assault after mean-spirited assault on anybody who would pass on the guys on this board (who are granted very bright knowledgable and articulate) in favor of Pete D'Alessandro when it comes to the personnel overhaul for the Kings. People who believe he ought to get a long leash and a couple years to implement his plan are mocked as naive. Relentlessly and meanly.

Pete's not going to reveal his big plan (ok I'm naive enough to believe he has a 3-4 year plan), he is not going to come on this board and defend his moves. So it is just a free for all, a disrespectful onslaught which includes even mocking the guy's appearance. He gets to take blame for a pursuit of Monta Ellis that may not have even happened. He gets to endure wrath for missing on Igoudala although he was never coming here at any reasonable price. He is going to spend the rest of his career with an 0-2 count for many of the people on this board because he made the decision to move on without Tyreke Evans. And even if it all works out, his detractors are going to say he lucked into it.

What is the end game here? Is anything short of PDA's resignation going to work for you guys?

One thing coming out of all this, I have some remorse about some of the very mean stuff I said about Geoff Petrie back in the day. Live and learn.

I just hope some of this stuff dies down by the time the season starts. But it doesn't seem like it right now.

John, I agree with what you are say. This place sounds like romper room not a kings fan forum.
 
Au contraire, it is the likes of you who are crying and whinging that others aren't content to go along with every move the FO makes. Man up and either defend the decisions with actual analysis or don't bother posting with that weak s**t. You aren't actually adding anything to the discussion, only crying that people won't go along with the herd mentality.

I will ALWAYS change my opinion when there's evidence. I don't have any agenda. I want what works, I want what wins (long-term and big, not a few extra cheap wins at the expense of true competitiveness). I have changed my opinion on many matters when the facts have begun to form. On the other hand, it is exactly the people who base their opinions on blind faith that are most staunch in their views, simply because faith is, by definition, blind. It is belief without proof or evidence. So cry all you want, but at least we're backing up our views with legitimate analysis. You're the one who can't handle constructive criticism. Nobody here has anything personal against PDA, but you're deluded if you think he gets a free pass for no apparent reason.

Asking as someone who's rather agnostic when it comes to the Reke wars, what evidence are you looking for on July 13?
 
Au contraire, it is the likes of you who are crying and whinging that others aren't content to go along with every move the FO makes. Man up and either defend the decisions with actual analysis or don't bother posting with that weak s**t. You aren't actually adding anything to the discussion, only crying that people won't go along with the herd mentality.

I will ALWAYS change my opinion when there's evidence. I don't have any agenda. I want what works, I want what wins (long-term and big, not a few extra cheap wins at the expense of true competitiveness). I have changed my opinion on many matters when the facts have begun to form. On the other hand, it is exactly the people who base their opinions on blind faith that are most staunch in their views, simply because faith is, by definition, blind. It is belief without proof or evidence. So cry all you want, but at least we're backing up our views with legitimate analysis. You're the one who can't handle constructive criticism. Nobody here has anything personal against PDA, but you're deluded if you think he gets a free pass for no apparent reason.

I don't think PDA supporters are objecting to analysis. I think what has triggered responses from the "blind faithers" is a lot of emotion and extreme confidence and certainty about a certain subjective point of view about Reke. Many believe the team was a couple of moves away from being a contender and Reke was one of the two main pieces. This is supported by belief and not data. It is not proveable and will never be proven. There is no way to prove it.

So Pete has to battle an idea, a religion very strongly held in some quarters - that keeping Reke and adding a better SF and a swatter on defense was going to lead the Kings to the promised land. To some on this board, it is just inconceivable that this version of reality might not be true. Some of you just won't consider the possibility and that is disconcerting I think.

Reke's stats were declining. The brand of basketball he plays is not entirely entertaining to watch for 48 minutes for everybody. The ball is not moving. He didn't always seem to have the instinct for the good decision on the floor. He may or may not have gotten along with our "once in a decade" big man DMC.

Now a certain brand of faith says the declining stats are not about Reke's intelligence and adaptability and a limited ceiling, but rather bad coaching. But the Pelicans are going to use him as a 6th man, not as starter on a contender and this says a lot to me. Nobody was coming after him with huge offers to start at PG on their contender team. Nobody. We have no legit rumors of say "Rondo + Doc Rivers for Evans". I'm not aware of any substantial rumors that indicate any front office in the NBA was willing to spend or trade big to get Evans.

The truth is, I wanted the Kings to start Evans at PG, get Igoudala to start at SF, max Cousins, groom the nice rookie at SG, and go get Dalembert back. Yay playoffs!!!! I wanted that too. I don't think people who wanted some version of that and are disappointed to lose Reke are crazy or stupid.

But, this front office has decided to go a different direction. They did not want to tie up that much salary in Evans (if they wanted him at all). Maybe they have something else in mind with more ball movement and better shooting.

Why not have a wait and see attitude about it and see how things develop? If you have the bar set at some imaginary faith-based result that was going to happen next season if we added a piece to the super Evans/DMC core... well Pete's really in a no-win situation isn't he.

I don't think "evidence" has been presented to suggest that the Kings were a piece away from big success around Evans. There is faith and testimonials from articulate and passionate supporters of Evans. That's all. The guy with the bat says so.

This is a fantasy hoops argument and it has gotten way out there. I think Pete's overhaul is a work in progress and I'm just going to ignore the mean insults hurled his way on this board from now on. They're not real stones I guess, so no crime in standing to the side and letting them fly by.

But I think this Kings front office deserves a chance - a three year window - to implement their vision. It is a negative form of faith to say "in three years there may not be any way to recover from Crazy Pete's antics". That is a faith based proposition that is hard to argue against. We hire executives and give them some time to do their thing. Pete has had no time... how about if he gets a little time? And how about letting him off the hook for Iggy and Monta for crying out loud - I think that is the thing that gets me the most... he had no chance to get Iggy and no intention of getting Monta.

I wish the guys who are critical of his moves could express themselves without the gooney photoshop stuff and name-calling. You're the better, the brighter... why not be the classier too?
 
Au contraire, it is the likes of you who are crying and whinging that others aren't content to go along with every move the FO makes. Man up and either defend the decisions with actual analysis or don't bother posting with that weak s**t. You aren't actually adding anything to the discussion, only crying that people won't go along with the herd mentality.

I will ALWAYS change my opinion when there's evidence. I don't have any agenda. I want what works, I want what wins (long-term and big, not a few extra cheap wins at the expense of true competitiveness). I have changed my opinion on many matters when the facts have begun to form. On the other hand, it is exactly the people who base their opinions on blind faith that are most staunch in their views, simply because faith is, by definition, blind. It is belief without proof or evidence. So cry all you want, but at least we're backing up our views with legitimate analysis. You're the one who can't handle constructive criticism. Nobody here has anything personal against PDA, but you're deluded if you think he gets a free pass for no apparent reason.

I already did. And nothing changed in the responses back to me.

So there's no point anymore in actual articulate responses to some people on this board. If you don't follow the party montra, you're called naive, ignorant, a homer, deluded and every other name in the book. I'm not thrilled with the Landry move, but I also understand there's a reason we went out and got him. He fits into a plan that Malone, Vivek, and PDA all envision this team going. So I'm going to trust that plan, even if it doesn't currently make sense. Because this FO deserves time to implement what they want this team to be. And it's not going to all happen in 1 off-season
 
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I already did. And nothing changed in the responses back to me.

So there's no point anymore in actual articulate responses to some people on this board. If you don't follow the party montra, you're called naive, ignorant, a homer, deluded and every other name in the book.

Come on. The name calling goes both ways and frankly started with your crowd as people expressed dissatisfaction with the Reke move. We weren't real fans. We were reactionary. Babies. Whining little girls. Etc.

It's a little too late to play the victim card though it would be better if we all just respected there are two different sides that we won't prove out for a while.
 
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