Offence

OptimusRhyme

OptimusRhyme

Jive Turkey
After seeing yesterdays game I think we have to change up our offence a bit, we were very effective with the ball in Millers hands, I know Millers been out but I'm just hoping we can use the high-post offence more, instead of all this Iso stuff, especially for Kevin and Bibby who are excellent cutters and shooters, I'm sure if we start utilizing Brad more Bibbys percentage will go up, hes trying to create his shots to much and thats not Bibbys game. We could be a very dangerous team offensively if we start passing, and playing like the Kings play.
I know RA is not here anymore but we still have the Best passing big man and one of the best shooting big men in the league, we need to use Brad, Brad is our offensive facilitator whether this team likes it or not.
I think Muss should go over some Webb and Divac tapes with the team.
 
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Brad definitely has a place running the offense. He and Bibby can play a solid two-man game, he's a great passer, and although his shot has been off this season he's effective shooting. The problem, though, is that Brad can be very easily taken out of the offense by pressuring him when he has the ball -- it takes away both his passing and his shooting, and he showed less willingness last season to put the ball on the floor and do that herky jerk drive to the rim. The Spurs know this as well as any team, but I guess last night they were too lazy to get out and pressure him.

No doubt it will help to have him on the floor, he's certainly a better center than anyone else we have and last night he looked pretty lively. But unfortunately I don't think Brad can be concisdered THE facilitator, just A facilitator if a team isn't actively trying to take him out of the game.
 
nbrans said:
Brad definitely has a place running the offense. He and Bibby can play a solid two-man game, he's a great passer, and although his shot has been off this season he's effective shooting. The problem, though, is that Brad can be very easily taken out of the offense by pressuring him when he has the ball -- it takes away both his passing and his shooting, and he showed less willingness last season to put the ball on the floor and do that herky jerk drive to the rim. The Spurs know this as well as any team, but I guess last night they were too lazy to get out and pressure him.

No doubt it will help to have him on the floor, he's certainly a better center than anyone else we have and last night he looked pretty lively. But unfortunately I don't think Brad can be concisdered THE facilitator, just A facilitator if a team isn't actively trying to take him out of the game.
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Well looking at this team so far Bibby definitely isn't playing like a facilitator, ron isn't.. Teams do pressure him but thats when we get it in the post with Artest and SAR, with no center down there they can do damage, we have a very versatile offensive prowress, I do believe things will have to run through Brad if we want to start getting W's,we saw what our offence could look like last night during the 3rd and 4th.
 
that would be great if brad would be a bit more willing to shoot the ball when he is open... having brad at full strength will help bibby and martin... and will hopefully take the ball out of artest's hands when he feels like taking over...

i have no problem with bibby trying to take over games with brad setting screens for him... but bibby trying to create for himself with faster guards on him doesnt look very promising....

go brad.... he showed that he would be a great help for martin in that spurs game... but not only that... he played great defense on duncan...
 
DocHolliday said:
I say if you're going to talk about it, you must be able to spell it first.



Sorry....I had to.
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Yeah, but you might want to consider that he spelled the word correctly for where he lives. It's the British spelling and OptimusRhyme is from Canada.

;)
 
AriesMar27 said:
that would be great if brad would be a bit more willing to shoot the ball when he is open... having brad at full strength will help bibby and martin... and will hopefully take the ball out of artest's hands when he feels like taking over...

i have no problem with bibby trying to take over games with brad setting screens for him... but bibby trying to create for himself with faster guards on him doesnt look very promising....

go brad.... he showed that he would be a great help for martin in that spurs game... but not only that... he played great defense on duncan...
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Yea I was really surprised by his defence, he had great positioning, really want too see him back at center with 30 plus minutes soon, this team will just be much more organized with his screens and passes.
 
exactly... if you want a team with good passing, you need good passers... there were or are so many times when reef will have the ball and get doubled but wont pass it because he doesnt see the floor as well as miller would.

i would sit there and be like, "miller would have passed it to the open man." reef just fumbles the ball or throws up an ill advised shot. artest is the same way sometimes, well... most of the time really...

it also seems as if bibby doesnt have anyone to pass it too... i was watching the laker-clipper game afterwards and saw so many give-and-go's with kwame and odom that it was almost sad... we were that team that used to make the extra pass and now we dont even pass the ball... i think that having miller and salmons on the floor with bibby and martin will be a huge boost...

oddly enough though it seems like salmons is more like doug christie than martin or garcia ever will be... thats a good thing for martin... but it would be nice if salmons got more minutes with martin... they seem like a really good tandem on offense and defense... martin and artest are great on defense, moreso obviously than salmons... but on offense artest seems to kill the flow of the game... bibby kinda did the same thing last night... but had his shooting touch been there we would have won. he had a couple of open threes that would have put us ahead...

oh well maybe next time...

go kings...
 
I would agree with the intial poster, especially as it regards Kevin. I think Kevin really needs to be set up by the offense to be effective. Just thrown the ball, asked to square up his defender and beat him? No, not consistently. BUt if the offense and passing can catch him on the move with an angle on the defender when he catches, his quickness and leaping ability makes it hard for that defender to make up the ground.

But the thing is...Muss's offense largely sucks so far. And I think that Brad did a lot of what he did last night on his own, on instinct. We don't have anywhere near the passing we did when we were a great team, but I think we are better than being 25th in the league or whatever in assists. But we seem to be getting the very least out of the passers we do have. Brad has been a nonfactor. We're getting the least out of Ron as a creater -- he created a lot of offense for us after arriving last year, but this year the structure is not the same. Garcia has been neutered. Mike has moments and is getting similar numbers, but its been on and off in effectiveness. Only Salmons of our creative people is getting at least a "B" in my book for creating, and he's hardly dazzled. And I don't think its that all these guys have forgotten how to do it. I think that the offense does not make sense for them or take advantage of them Lot of confusion, and give up one on one play, whereas the former regime absolutley demanded ball movement. In any case, given Brad's passivity, merely throwing him out on the court isn't going to produce consistent passing. He needs the staff to design sets to actually utilize a passer, and then put the ball in his hands in those sets. I have a few unemployed veteran coaches they might tap for advice on how to do so.
 
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Bricklayer said:
I would agree with the intial poster, especially as it regards Kevin. I think Kevin really needs to be set up by the offense to be effective. Just thrown the ball, asked to square up his defender and beat him? No, not consistently. BUt if the offense and passing can catch him on the move with an angle on the defender when he catches, his quickness and leaping ability makes it hard for that defender to make up the ground.

But the thing is...Muss's offense sucks so far. And I think that Brad did a lot of what he did last night on his own, on instinct. We don't have anywhere near the passing we did when we were a great team, but I think we are better than being 25th in the league or whatever in assists. But we seem to be getting the very least out of the passers we do have. Brad has been a nonfactor. We're getting the least out of Ron as a creater -- he created a lot of offense for us after arriving last year, but this year the structure is not the same. Garcia has been neutered. Mike has movements and is getting similar numbers, but its been on and off in effectiveness. Only Salmons of our creative people is getting at least a "B" in my book for creating. And I don't think its that all these guys have forgotten how to do it. I think that the offense does not make sense for them or take advanatage of them Lot of confusion, and give up one on one play, whereas the former regime absolutley demanded ball movement. In any case, given Brad's passivity, merely throwing him out on the court isn't going to produce consistent passing. He needs the staff to design sets to actually utilize a passer, and then put the ball in his hands in those sets. I have a few unemployed veteran coaches they might tap for advice on how to do so.
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I'm sure the thought has crossed Muss's mind about the princeton offence, theres no way he would be able to get this team to run it like we used to due to the lack of passers but I really hopes he gets it threw his mind that we need that type of offence to be succesful. This team can pass we have alot of passers, it just dosent seem like they want to share the ball, Muss has gotta tap into this offence with some princeton style and make this team effective, enough of this Iso crap.
 
KINGSFAN-FROM-L.A. said:
no thanks... brad is useless... the guy cant even make a 2 foot layup and you're asking if he should run the offense??? no way... trade him for cave man
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What oh what would being able to make a 2ft layup have to do with running an offense? Or did you miss the "running" part?
 
Bricklayer said:
What oh what would being able to make a 2ft layup have to do with running an offense? Or did you miss the "running" part?
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dude why would you ask that question.. it means hes the sloppiest thing ive ever seen on a basketball court... everytime he touches the ball he stumbles or falls down or turns the ball over and you want me to agree with having him "run" the offense... and yeah my man i know what running means:rolleyes:
 
KINGSFAN-FROM-L.A. said:
dude why would you ask that question.. it means hes the sloppiest thing ive ever seen on a basketball court... everytime he touches the ball he stumbles or falls down or turns the ball over and you want me to agree with having him "run" the offense... and yeah my man i know what running means:rolleyes:
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Sometimes posts aren't worth responding to...
 
It might be more useful to get back to the topic at hand...

IMHO Brad Miller is an integral part of this team's offense. When he can pass to Kevin like he did against the Spurs, only good things can result.
 
Well hopefully tonight we can see some high post offence, get Howard out of the low paint and force him to guard Brad up high.
 
brad miller cannot put the ball on the floor. he is inefective. it doesnt work if your big man cannot put the ball on the floor. what you'll have is a circus around the perimter. with no free lane to the basket. just alot of side motion. im sure the magic defense wont mind doing sliding drills for 48 minutes. you learn that in junior high basketball. and the spurs were up by 15. they gave us a break.
 
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tyrant said:
brad miller cannot put the ball on the floor. he is inefective. it doesnt work if your big man cannot put the ball on the floor. what you'll have is a circus around the perimter. with no free lane to the basket. just alot of side motion. im sure they magic defense wont mind doing sliding drills for 48 minutes. you learn that in junior high basketball. and the spurs were up by 15. they gave us a break.
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Miller can shoot buddy he dosent always need to put the ball on the floor, only when needed. But thats not the point, either way hes going to draw someone out there be it a small guy that he can shoot over or pass over or a big guy which would free the lane it dosent matter. His shooting is more important in this situation then driving to the basket.
You learn that in junior high basketball? Well I geuss over the last cuple of years our "Junior High" offence has been able to be one of the leading offences in the league.
This team is still very capable of running this offence effectively and I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking that after watching the Spurs game and Millers return.
As for the Spurs giving us a break thats bulls***.
 
A big man handling the ball on the outside is effective if he can hit that outside shot. You don't want him in the lane if we have cutters, anyway. Depends on how you want to run your offense. Different skill sets for different offenses. With Brad Miller, he's best up outside the key, as crazy as it sounds. You can't have it both ways on offense. Post up + motion don't go well together.
 
OptimusRhyme said:
Miller can shoot buddy he dosent always need to put the ball on the floor, only when needed. But thats not the point, either way hes going to draw someone out there be it a small guy that he can shoot over or pass over or a big guy which would free the lane it dosent matter. His shooting is more important in this situation then driving to the basket.
You learn that in junior high basketball? Well I geuss over the last cuple of years our "Junior High" offence has been able to be one of the leading offences in the league.
This team is still very capable of running this offence effectively and I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking that after watching the Spurs game and Millers return.
As for the Spurs giving us a break thats bulls***.
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the problem is he's too passive. he used to be able to jack it up. now he doesnt have confidence to shoot the ball. and then the defender gets in his grill and completely shuts down whatever the kings are trying to do.
 
tyrant said:
the problem is he's too passive. he used to be able to jack it up. now he doesnt have confidence to shoot the ball. and then the defender gets in his grill and completely shuts down whatever the kings are trying to do.
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Thats why I said if hes hitting his shots, which will return, he will be the effective high post player we need. Millers an allstar, hes going to come up big this year if we want to do anything.
 
sigh. we cant force these players to wake up. yes miller can shoot, yes miller is a great passer, but as long as he's playing like a cheerleader we're gonna get whipped like KFC potatoes. bottom line!
 
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