off the rails off season.

sauce-26

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http://kings.realgm.com/articles/162/20050719/off_the_rails_off-season

Off The Rails Off-Season
Logan Flowers - 19th July, 2005 11:32 AM

Many teams would kill for the Kings recent success. Seven straight trips to the playoffs, including a 2002 run that nearly ended in an NBA finals appearance (and likely a championship). However, this overview ignores the fact that the Kings performance since 1999 has followed a bell curve. Starting at the bottom, with first round losses to the Jazz and Lakers, the Kings reached the apex of the curve with the afore mentioned 2002 conference finals appearance. Unfortunately, since that appearance, the Kings have been traveling down the curve, last year turning in a dismal performance in falling to the Sonics in the first round.

The Kings have gone from one of the deepest teams in the league to having only three players they can truly count on: Brad Miller, Peja Stoyakovic, and Mike Bibby. None of the three play even average defense. It almost seems like a disease. Miller was known for his physical play in Indiana. Yet with Sacramento, he sometimes seems to literally retreat from players driving to the basket. He (and the rest of the Kings interior D) was tooled by Jerome James in last year’s playoffs. Jerome James! Stoyakovic and Bibby both give good effort, but are constantly beaten off the dribble. When your best three players are this defensively deficient, this starts to become part of the entire team’s identify.

The rest of the team consists of, well, bench players. These are guys who can contribute (Skinner, Thomas, Songaila), but should not start on a team serious about contending.

All of these facts make this off-season a critical one, if the Kings wish to reverse their slide down the curve.

Let’s begin with number one draft pick Francisco Garcia. The consensus seems to be that he was something of a steal at number 23. While he may eventually develop into a solid player, Garcia is exactly what the Kings do not need. That is, another slow-footed defensive liability who settles for the jump shot too much. He fits the Kings mold almost too perfectly, and that is most definitely not a good thing.

Turning now to the free agent market, the Kings lack the money to make any significant splash. Additionally, they lost their only viable option at the two-guard (Mobley) to the Clippers. To this point, the Kings have made no moves. The rumor mill has them potentially acquiring Michael Finley or Antoine Walker. Either player would be a poor fit. Finley is inconsistent offensively, has been slowed defensively by age, and is too often injured of late. The last thing the Kings need is another injury prone player who does not guard anyone. While I dislike the idea of signing Finley, Antoine Walker would be even worse. The idea with the Walker signing would be, ostensibly, to place Walker into the high post and run the offense through him, just as the Kings often did with Chris Webber.

This is a bad idea on so many levels. Webber, for all is faults, was probably the best passing big man of his generation. Walker, while he has flashes of vision, is far more turnover prone than Webber. Additionally, the only thing Walker has on Webber is durability. Just like Webber, Walker constantly floats on the perimeter, and will not post up unless begged. When he does post up, like Webber, he has absolutely no lift. As a result, Walker is reduced to a variety of ineffective and frustrating flick shots when around the basket. Just like Webber, Walker is a poor post defender. Like Webber, Walker is a chucker, taking way too many shots to get his points. Oh, and by the way, he’s a horrible free throw shooter, too.

Other than that, the free agent pool is pretty well depleted, especially with the Kings’ budget. If Petrie is determined to stick it out with this core group, the best he can do is supplement this team with bargain free agents, preferable those that can play defense. The Kings no longer have the fire power to gun teams out of the building, and need to take a more balanced approach. Greg Buckner is one option that comes immediately to mind, though his game is offensively limited. Dan Gadzuric and Devin Brown are two restricted free agents worth looking into, though they are both likely out of the Kings’ price race. The problem is that this strategy would require Rick Adelman to instill a defensive mindset, hardly an encouraging prospect. That being said, barring a huge improvement, a coaching change is likely after the 2005-06 season. So a reasonable strategy would be to supplement the current core with defensive-minded players, and hope that Adelman can do the job. If he fails (and he likely will) then the job falls to someone else. This may be the safest strategy, as no huge gambles in terms of signings or trades are required.

The only other option would to pursue a trade. The only way to get meaningful players in return would likely require giving up one of the big three. There are so many permutations that Petrie could pursue, and there is more than one “winning strategy.” Honestly, I doubt Petrie would do it. He seems committed to this core unit. However, it may be the only way to shake this team out of its lethargy. Waiting too much longer will likely lessen the trade value of Miller, Bibby, or Stoyakovic.

As it stands right now, the Kings are squarely behind the Spurs, Suns, Sonics, Rockets, and Mavs. The Nuggets are not far behind. Without some sort of decisive strategy this off-season, the Kings may find themselves at the bottom of the playoff heap for a long time to come.
 
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I agree with a lot of it, except I'm not sure what is meant by being "at the bottom of the playoff heap for a long time to come." Does that mean in the playoffs but as 7 or 8 or missing entirely? I think it's obvious to everyone that the Kings have been in decline, although the 2002 WCF probably wasn't the best- it was 03 before Webber went down. The team also played very well in 03-04 before Webber returned. Author's analogy is hardly a perfect fit.

Anyway, I think this will be a bad time for the Kings, right now and into this season. I think it will be the worst part though, just recovering from truly stripping down the 99-04 Kings, and moving in a new direction. We're going through growing pains and, as frustrated as I am with this offseason, I still have faith in this organization. I'm not going to say "to turn this team around" because this team is still heading in the direction that the Maloofs and GP want it to. They just cleared house and are waiting for the dust to settle so they can start putting things back together. Right now the Kings have very little flexibility, there is no doubt about that. Things will naturally change over time and the Kings will improve, guided once again by a great front office. I am thinking things could be better, but long-term gloom and doom prospects are definitely not in order.
 
pertty good article i'd say...we have talked about most of this stuff...but seeing it in one big essay is a bit overwhelming
 
Okay, I have a couple of problems with this article, not including the "Stoyakovic" ...

The writer has a real misconception about Geoff Petrie, how he operates and his strengths. His forte, as has been mentioned numerous times before, isn't in acquiring players from the free agency pool. Never has been. He mentions players like Dan Gadzuric as possibilities when it's been announced he's signing elsewhere.

This is, however, the part that I find the most problem with:

The only other option would to pursue a trade. The only way to get meaningful players in return would likely require giving up one of the big three. There are so many permutations that Petrie could pursue, and there is more than one “winning strategy.” Honestly, I doubt Petrie would do it. He seems committed to this core unit. However, it may be the only way to shake this team out of its lethargy. Waiting too much longer will likely lessen the trade value of Miller, Bibby, or Stoyakovic.

He doubts if Petrie will pursue trades? Hello? Has the writer NOT been paying attention? How did we get Bibby? How did we acquire Brad Miller?

Sorry but personally I've gotten a lot more from the various discussions in our own threads than from this article.
 
sauce-26 said:
Dan Gadzuric and Devin Brown are two restricted free agents worth looking into, though they are both likely out of the Kings’ price range.

I'm not sure what is more depressing; the fact that I've never heard of either of these guy (I guess I still have a ways to go in being a knowledgable NBA fan) or the fact that the Kings would have a hard time affording either of the guys I've never heard of.
 
what's up sauce-26. thought this thread was gonna be closed. glad it's not; you've made some good points.

first off, the kings DID have very good success in the past. 7 straight playoff appearances. the fact that we declined as a team does have alot to do with injuries, but significally our lack of heart. after webber got hurt i felt that this team would automatically get back to blowing teams out the gym when he returned. i was wrong. alot of toughness and skill was taken from us after that injury and especially when we lost doug.


i haven't heard many people who were as bold to say that franco garcia was just "another slow footed liability" i've never seen the guy play, but there is obviously something about him that gave you that assumption. kinda awkward seeing as how others in this forum praise him as possibly "the next doug christie".

our effort Does (with a capital "D") start with the core. amussing when you pointed out how players (miller) automatically become soft when they step onto sacramento soil. it's not right, but it seems so true.

lastly, im not a finley or walker fan. great job pointing out walker's ability. breaking down his game you hit the nail in the coffin when said he's more durable, but turnover prone than webber was. however, he'll never be a solid comparrison to the old webber. but walker and the injured webber? oh they have so many similarities. wondering around the perimeter and a lack of efficient post up game. true indeed that we are gonna have to sign some defensive stoppers, but the coach is the man that has to make it all happen.

bottom line is that like you i feel that we can no longer blow teams out the building, but focus on winning in other ways. playing some defense would be a start.
 
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^i vehemently disagree with that....even the injured webber is leagues better than walker in terms of efficiency, skill, and over basketball i.q.
 
VF21 said:
Okay, I have a couple of problems with this article, not including the "Stoyakovic" ...

The writer has a real misconception about Geoff Petrie, how he operates and his strengths. His forte, as has been mentioned numerous times before, isn't in acquiring players from the free agency pool. Never has been. He mentions players like Dan Gadzuric as possibilities when it's been announced he's signing elsewhere.

This is, however, the part that I find the most problem with:



He doubts if Petrie will pursue trades? Hello? Has the writer NOT been paying attention? How did we get Bibby? How did we acquire Brad Miller?

Sorry but personally I've gotten a lot more from the various discussions in our own threads than from this article.

I think his point was that given the complexion of our team at this moment to make a significant trade that would improve the team would require the trading of one or more of the "nucleus" of Miller, Peja and Bibby and he doesn't think he will do it.
 
tyrant said:
what's up sauce-26. thought this thread was gonna be closed. glad it's not; you've made some good points.

sauce-26 didn't write the article. He found it on realGM and copied it to here.

;)

REMINDER: If you're going to post things from other sites, you MUST give proper attribution (meaning the title of the article and the name of the writer) and you MUST post a link back to the site of origin. Failure to do so will result in the closure or deletion of the thread.

Thank you.
 
acisking said:
^i vehemently disagree with that....even the injured webber is leagues better than walker in terms of efficiency, skill, and over basketball i.q.

well walker went to boston and immediately turned them around. webber did the opposite for philly. webber used to be a 24-25ppg scorer and a 10+ rebounder and 5+ assist. now he's barley a 19ppg scorer with his rebounding and assist dropping by the minute. it's plain as a sunny day. webber has lost a ton. so much that he's down there with the likes of walker
 
PixelPusher said:
I'm not sure what is more depressing; the fact that I've never heard of either of these guy (I guess I still have a ways to go in being a knowledgable NBA fan) or the fact that the Kings would have a hard time affording either of the guys I've never heard of.

you are probably the only poster on this site that has never heard of d-brown from the spurs.


not directing the question to you pixelpusher, but i wonder why we wouldn't be able to afford d-brown?
 
tyrant said:
well walker went to boston and immediately turned them around. webber did the opposite for philly. webber used to be a 24-25ppg scorer and a 10+ rebounder and 5+ assist. now he's barley a 19ppg scorer with his rebounding and assist dropping by the minute. it's plain as a sunny day. webber has lost a ton. so much that he's down there with the likes of walker

The Sixers had a better win-loss record WITH Webber than without him. Webber has nearly averaged 20/10/5 or better his entire career. Barely a 19 ppg scorer now? OMG...No wonder we traded him.

:rolleyes:
 
tyrant said:
well walker went to boston and immediately turned them around. webber did the opposite for philly. webber used to be a 24-25ppg scorer and a 10+ rebounder and 5+ assist. now he's barley a 19ppg scorer with his rebounding and assist dropping by the minute. it's plain as a sunny day. webber has lost a ton. so much that he's down there with the likes of walker

No. He struggles a little bit after being sent to a new team midseason and now he's no better than Antoine Walker? Please. New system, new team, new teammates. He'll be back next year. Even if he's not the player he once was, he will continue to be miles ahead of Walker.
 
Well I am glad that this guy told us the truth, guess we can now forget caring about the offseason, this upcoming season, or better yet this team. ;)
 
VF21 said:
The Sixers had a better win-loss record WITH Webber than without him. Webber has nearly averaged 20/10/5 or better his entire career. Barely a 19 ppg scorer now? OMG...No wonder we traded him.

:rolleyes:


really? his years with the kings came to around 24ppg and 10 rebounds a game plus 5+ assists per game. look at his numbers during the playoffs with sacramento since 2001. am I right?

his stat line as of Today is 19.5 ppg 9 rebounds a game and 4 assists per game. walker averages just about as little as .4 less in about every category. webber is still the better player, but walker is not far behind by any means. maybe i underestimated webber's sucess when he was shipped to philly. the sixers held their own, but people talked more about how the celtics came around when walker came back. they won more games and lasted in the postseason longer.
 
Webber's stat line is 19+/9/4 in the first season back after what could well have been - and has been for others - a career-ending injury and surgical repair. Think about that for a minute... I'll wait.

Comparing Antoine Walker to Chris Webber is beyond ludicrous. I am virtually speechless, and that doesn't happen very often.

Peace...
 
Walker went back to a team and teamates whose system he knew intimately, Webb the exact opposite. If Walker did so great why are they shopping him all over the place the first chance they get? There are definately are similarities between the two, but I would call Toine a poor mans Webber at best even now.
 
VF21 said:
Webber's stat line is 19+/9/4 in the first season back after what could well have been - and has been for others - a career-ending injury and surgical repair. Think about that for a minute... I'll wait.

Comparing Antoine Walker to Chris Webber is beyond ludicrous. I am virtually speechless, and that doesn't happen very often.

Peace...

webber's numbers when he came back from the injury was 18.7 ppg, 8.7 reb per game and 4.6 assists per game. courtesy of nba.com. and we all know he hasn't been the same since then. now, after THAT season he pushed his numbers up to 21ppg and 9 reb a game in the 04-05 year before he got traded. defending webber i gotta keep in mind that he played alongside of iverson the ball hogg. webber will always be remembered as our floor general, but he's lost alot. walker is more durable, he's faster and he' s the bigger threat off the dribble. im just saying that if we signed walker we'll be back where we started before webber got traded. maybe worse. walker does suck. but i was just making a statement by acquiring him would would indeed give us a poor mans webber. both slow on defense and no post help
 
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tyrant said:
im just saying that if we signed walker we'll be back where we started before webber got traded. maybe worse.
Is that better or worse than we are right now?
 
tyrant said:
webber's numbers when he came back from the injury was 18.7 ppg, 8.7 reb per game and 4.6 assists per game. courtesy of nba.com. and we all know he hasn't been the same since then. now, after THAT season he pushed his numbers up to 21ppg and 9 reb a game in the 04-05 year before he got traded. defending webber i gotta keep in mind that he played alongside of iverson the ball hogg. webber will always be remembered as our floor general, but he's lost alot. walker is more durable, he's faster and he' s the bigger threat off the dribble. im just saying that if we signed walker we'll be back where we started before webber got traded. maybe worse.

Those stats you show were stats for a very short portion of a season, courtesy my own memory of all things Webber. Pretty damned impressive for a guy coming off an injury/recovery like that.

He hasn't been the same since then? Well, let's see. He raised every category, DESPITE being traded mid-season to a team that was totally dominated by Allen Iverson. Yep, guess that's pretty abysmal.

Webber has lost a lot? Perhaps, but even so he's still got a lot more left than Antoine Walker.

If we signed Walker we'll be back where we started before Webber got traded? In your dreams...
 
VF21 said:
The Sixers had a better win-loss record WITH Webber than without him. Webber has nearly averaged 20/10/5 or better his entire career. Barely a 19 ppg scorer now? OMG...No wonder we traded him.

:rolleyes:

didn't iverson say some things about webber? wasn't chris booed IN philly?
 
KP said:
I agree with that.

i hope you or most of you also agree on the fact that we will never be a serious contender with skinner, songaila or kenny thomas in the starting lineup.
 
tyrant said:
didn't iverson say some things about webber? wasn't chris booed IN philly?

1. Yes, Iverson did say some things about Webber. Among them was his comment that he was really thrilled to finally have a chance to play with someone like Webber on his team.

2. For the most part, Webber has been well received by the fans. These are the people who booed Santa, however, so an occasional boo in Webber's direction is pretty much par for the course.

Dude, those straws you're grasping at are getting smaller and smaller and smaller...

If you ever watch NBA Rookies on SpikeTV, you'll see an episode or two with the OTHER AI on Philly. He has quite a bit to say about Webber. You might want to try and catch it.
 
tyrant said:
i hope you or most of you also agree on the fact that we will never be a serious contender with skinner, songaila or kenny thomas in the starting lineup.
You're preaching to the Choir.
 
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