NOP - SAC (Brandon Ingram)

[twslam07]

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NOP Gets: Marvin Bagley, Tristan Thompson, Tyrese Haliburton, & 2022 SAC 1st (Top 4 Protected)
NOP Gives: Brandon Ingram
Why for NOP? The pelicans land a cost controlled PG/SG that is a great complement to Zion and can paly next to any of Graham, Lewis, or NAW. They also take a flyer on Bagley; otherwise, this trade could leave them with about ~$60 mil in cap space for the 2022 offseason in hopes of adding some big names around a young core of Graham, Lewis, Haliburton, Alexander-Walker, Murphy, Louzada, Marshall, Zion, 2022 NOP 1st, 2022 LAL 1st, & 2022 SAC 1st (Top 4 Protected).

PG - Graham / Lewis / Satoransky
SG - Haliburton / Alexander-Walker / Temple
SF - Hart / Murphy / Louzada
PF - Williamson / Bagley / Gabriel / Marshall
C - Valanciunas / Thompson / Hernangomez / Hayes

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SAC Gets: Brandon Ingram
SAC Gives: Marvin Bagley, Tristan Thompson, Tyrese Haliburton, & 2022 SAC 1st (Top 4 Protected)
Why for SAC? With Fox, Mitchell, Hield, & Davis able to pick up all of the guard minutes, the Kings swap Haliburton for a SF who can be another scoring presence next to Fox and can continue to grow with their core.

PG - Fox / Mitchell
SG - Hield / Davis / Ramsey
SF - Ingram / Harkless / King
PF - Barnes / Metu / Woodard
C - Holmes / Len / Queta / Jones

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[Jkbiker]

Make it Bagley, Buddy and 2022 1st (unprotected) and 2024 1st(top ten protected) , - sign me up!

But not sure Pels do either deal

 

[twslam07]

Make it Bagley, Buddy and 2022 1st (unprotected) and 2024 1st(top ten protected) , - sign me up!

But not sure Pels do either deal

I definitely don't see the Pelicans giving up a 23 year old all-star SF who's 6'9" with a 7'3" wingspan who averages 24/5/5 with a .584 TS% for that package. If someone offered you that same package for Fox, would you think that's fair?

 

[Jkbiker]

I definitely don't see the Pelicans giving up a 23 year old all-star SF who's 6'9" with a 7'3" wingspan who averages 24/5/5 with a .584 TS% for that package. If someone offered you that same package for Fox, would you think that's fair?

You are right I don't see it either for Buddy from Pels side
But even if its fair, I dont see Kings giving up Hali or Fox
I also dont think Ingram is even on the block (See all your reasons above)

So same package for Fox would be:
Fox, Thompson
for Ingram, Pels 2022 1st unprotected

you would think that's fair? would you do that trade?

 

[twslam07]

You are right I don't see it either for Buddy from Pels side
But even if its fair, I dont see Kings giving up Hali or Fox
I also dont think Ingram is even on the block (See all your reasons above)

So same package for Fox would be:
Fox, Thompson
for Ingram, Pels 2022 1st unprotected

you would think that's fair? would you do that trade?

Well there have been rumors about Ingram and Zion not being good complements. This trade gives them...

1. A very valuable, versatile PG/SG in Haliburton who will be on a dirt cheap contract the next few years. Not to mention his game would mesh very well with Zion.
2. A very lightly protected 1st to bring in another young, cheap player who will be on Zion's timeline.
3. Massive cap space for the 2022 offseason (~$60 mil). Perhaps Zion, Haliburton, Graham, Alexander-Walker, Lewis, Murphy, Louzada2022 NOP 1st, 2022 SAC 1st, & 2022 LAL 1st is enough to lure a big name free agent. In this scenario, the trade would be Ingram for Haliburton, 2022 SAC 1st, & big name free agent.

The same package would be the same package. Not sure why you're changing it. The question was would you trade De'Aaron Fox for Marvin Bagley, Buddy Hield, 2022 SAC 1st (Unprotected), and 2024 1st (Top 10 Protected)?

 

[ESP47]

I'd probably lean toward keeping Haliburton and seeing what he turns into. He's already better than Ingram was at the same age.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I think its an overpay. Maybe if the pick is lottery protected but too risky if it is not and we go into the season it is due with Walton as coach.

 

[kingsboi]

that's a bit too much in my opinion. Let's ride it out with a three guard lineup and see how they mesh before making one expendable.

 

[Woot!]

that's a bit too much in my opinion. Let's ride it out with a three guard lineup and see how they mesh before making one expendable.

It IS a lot to give up for Ingram. OTOH, a lineup featuring 3 guards who are mediocre rebounders even for their position?

Mitchell, Fox, Ty, HB, Holmes - I'm *already* worried about that lineup getting defensive boards and generally getting bullied every which way. (Not that rebounding is an Ingram strength.)

Of the 24 players who suited up for the Kings last year, Fox and Haliburton ranked 22nd and 23rd in boards per 36 at 3.6 each. (JJ chipped in 3.5.)

And, of course, it's not just the guards. Notice where Harkless is on the list below. Not awesome. Tell you wut: if Bags and/or Metu could earn real minutes w/boards, 3's & solid defense, that would REALLY help.

 

[SacTownKid]

Waaaay too much. Like way.

 

[kingsboi]

It IS a lot to give up for Ingram. OTOH, a lineup featuring 3 guards who are mediocre rebounders even for their position?

Mitchell, Fox, Ty, HB, Holmes - I'm *already* worried about that lineup getting defensive boards and generally getting bullied every which way. (Not that rebounding is an Ingram strength.)

guards are going to have to get in there and make it a collective effort while the bigs box out their own

 

[dude12]

I just think Ingram is being overvalued based on the deal proposed. Agree with the above that let’s find out what Hali is going to be. Plus these other pieces we are adding…..

So I was listening on the radio…might have been a guest on 1320 during afternoon show. He was talking advanced stats and metrics and I didn’t catch exactly what area it was or how he came up with this but based on Bagley’s age, there was only 2 other players….and I think his positions of 4 /5 in the list of 15 younger than him. What the guy was implying or getting at, it’s probably in the Kings best interests not to just dump this guy.

Obviously there is the part of the equation that includes the injuries and daddy and team Bagley but he’s not devoid of talent no matter how many people want to imply that.

I think Monte is half a year away from landing the big piece the team needs and we need Bagley to play to become attractive to some other team OR he somehow takes a jump in production. I’m not holding my breath for either but just dumping him now, just don’t think it’s worth it.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

I just think Ingram is being overvalued based on the deal proposed.

You think?

It’s the M.O. of this forum. To overvalue players not on the KINGS roster all while undervaluing the players that are actually on it.

I like Brandon Ingram. Good player. But worth nowhere near all those assets.

I’d do it for the elite upside of Ben Simmons. But not for a scorer like Ingram. No thanks.

As others have said, I’d rather bet on Tyrese Haliburton becoming a better all-around player.

If I’m giving up De’Aaron Fox or Tyrese Haliburton, it’s going to be for a player with elite qualities and potential. Not just for a good scorer. Or because the player has long arms and plays a wing position that the KINGS are weak at.

This trade proposal reeks of desperation.

 

[The_Jamal]

I hope McNair continues to play the long-build. Fox is just starting his max deal, Mitchell on a rookie deal, Hali year 2. The summer league roster with his prospects+Hali shows me everything I need to see that he knows how to build a proper NBA roster in 2021 and what wins; he just needs the time to do it.

And honestly, he has the time. Fox starting a 5 year deal, Holmes just inked a 4 year deal, Mitchell rookie, Hali year 2 of a his rookie contract. If pushing your chips in for Ingram really gave you a winning window, I'd be more willing, but I don't think he does. Ingram is damn good, but I want to bet on Hali's IQ upside and him being the bridge needed with Fox/Mitchell on the squad. His game vastly elevates what they do on the floor.

 

[sactowndog]

I think if the Kings trade for anyone they need a defensive oriented 3 more than another player with poor defense.

 

[Groovygreg]

I hope McNair continues to play the long-build. Fox is just starting his max deal, Mitchell on a rookie deal, Hali year 2. The summer league roster with his prospects+Hali shows me everything I need to see that he knows how to build a proper NBA roster in 2021 and what wins; he just needs the time to do it.

And honestly, he has the time. Fox starting a 5 year deal, Holmes just inked a 4 year deal, Mitchell rookie, Hali year 2 of a his rookie contract. If pushing your chips in for Ingram really gave you a winning window, I'd be more willing, but I don't think he does. Ingram is damn good, but I want to bet on Hali's IQ upside and him being the bridge needed with Fox/Mitchell on the squad. His game vastly elevates what they do on the floor.

Nailed it. The intangibles (not to mention the measurables) that the rare type of player like ‘Rese brings to a team is too valuable to jettison now - if ever.

 

[Chupacabra]

I wouldn't do it if I have to include both Haliburton AND the 2022 1st rounder. I would need a superstar player in return for a package that includes those two pieces. Say someone like Doncic or Embiid gets pissed off and wants to be traded...

 

[twslam07]

Curious how people think about this trade now that we’ve seen about a quarter of the season.

I’m still on the blow it up train but if Vivek is not going to let that happen, I see this as an adequate win now move that balances the roster, gives us two young go-to scorers, & provides great spacing. Defense would be the biggest concern for this group with Hield and Ingram in the starting lineup.

 

[Woot!]

Curious how people think about this trade now that we’ve seen about a quarter of the season.

I’m still on the blow it up train but if Vivek is not going to let that happen, I see this as an adequate win now move that balances the roster, gives us two young go-to scorers, & provides great spacing. Defense would be the biggest concern for this group with Hield and Ingram in the starting lineup.

I think the deal looks even worse for the Kings now.This proposal WAAAAAY overstates Ingram's value. He's a solid, volume shooter who does nothing else particularly well. Defense AND rebounding would be huge concerns. I *might* not trade Tyrese for Ingram straight-up.

And, as someone who was *very* unimpressed w/Bags, his performances since Luke's ouster have been a revelation. Suddenly, he's worth a longer look. Bags + Tyrese + TT + 1st for Ingram would be... upsetting.