No Doubt that Nash is MVP!
- Thread starter Bibby_Is_Clutch
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Bibby_Is_Clutch
Starter
Dallas is a good team, but they did give Nash a lot of the points hes accumulated over the last two games for free. He still was making some crazy shots and clearly led his team tonight. Wade is good but this guy is the real post season MVP the way he is carrying his team.
AleksandarN
Starter
Like I said earlier Nash makes this team what it is. Let me ask you how much playoff experience does this team have other than JJ and Steve Nash.
Kajun
G-League
It seems like Nash has been given a boost from taking MVP honors.
MVP is such an ambigious concept anyways; some people take it as best player, others might take it literally as being most valuable (+/- stats when on and off court, only in a more subjective way).
If you're interpreting it as best player, then yeah, Shaq should win it.
If you take it as Most valuable however, it might be different.
What I don't get, are the following arguments that some people use against Nash:
"Look at what happened to Dallas, look what happened to LA. Shaq is MVP!"
"Look at all the talent in Phoenix! Compare that to the miniscule talent Shaq is working with!"
The first statement is rather simplistic, since Dallas have HUGE depth, even without Nash. LA is pretty much Kobe. Have you seen their lineup at the end of the season? Horrible.
The second one is true in a way, but it's not all that simple: Stoudemire, Johnson, Marion were definitely talented already, but talent doesn't necessarily equate to being good. Nash allowed these players to evolve into what they are, and he deserves a great deal of credit for that. A year ago Amare was 'just' a promising rookie, but nobody would have expected him to make such huge strides.
Some people would even say that if you substitute Nash with another player, Phoenix would still be where they are today. Although not inconceivable if we're talking about a player like Kidd (from a few years ago, maybe), the point is that Nash did turn things around, nobody else did. The rest is just theory.
People who complain about Nash getting MVP should rather focus their efforts on striving for one clear definition of 'MVP'.
MVP is such an ambigious concept anyways; some people take it as best player, others might take it literally as being most valuable (+/- stats when on and off court, only in a more subjective way).
If you're interpreting it as best player, then yeah, Shaq should win it.
If you take it as Most valuable however, it might be different.
What I don't get, are the following arguments that some people use against Nash:
"Look at what happened to Dallas, look what happened to LA. Shaq is MVP!"
"Look at all the talent in Phoenix! Compare that to the miniscule talent Shaq is working with!"
The first statement is rather simplistic, since Dallas have HUGE depth, even without Nash. LA is pretty much Kobe. Have you seen their lineup at the end of the season? Horrible.
The second one is true in a way, but it's not all that simple: Stoudemire, Johnson, Marion were definitely talented already, but talent doesn't necessarily equate to being good. Nash allowed these players to evolve into what they are, and he deserves a great deal of credit for that. A year ago Amare was 'just' a promising rookie, but nobody would have expected him to make such huge strides.
Some people would even say that if you substitute Nash with another player, Phoenix would still be where they are today. Although not inconceivable if we're talking about a player like Kidd (from a few years ago, maybe), the point is that Nash did turn things around, nobody else did. The rest is just theory.
People who complain about Nash getting MVP should rather focus their efforts on striving for one clear definition of 'MVP'.
jacobdrj
Bench
Since they don't have a definition for what MVP should be, anyone can be MVP. But if you asked who the best player in the NBA is, and you gave yourself an honest look, it is Shaq. I don't like him. I don't think he worked particularly hard for what he has because of his genetic advantage of size and bulk. But the fact is, no matter how boring it is, the reality is that he is one of the 3 players in history who they actually had to change the rules to make it harder on him. In fact, considering the times we live in of very healthy and well trained players, essentially BIGGER players, Shaq still managed to have 2, count 'em, 2 rule changes made for him, while Wilt and Kareem only had 1 a piece (both widening of the lanes). They added the "restricted area" under the basket, and the Partial Zone D.
Nash is the kind of player, like MJ, who they made the game easier for (new foul rules regarding hand checking for Nash's era, Palming and no-calls on double dribbling and O-fouls for the MJ era) However, while MJ got some MAJOR star treatment (read: unfair) Nash had to deal with the same new rules as everyone else, and is excelling at them.
If Nash can win MVP, so can, for example, Ben Wallace. Yet, I am told that Ben can't even get a whiff of the HOF because he can't score, why the bias towards offensive players? If MVP just means you need to score, call it the OPOY. Or, qualify MVP for O and D like they do in football (something they actually do right IMHO).
I have nothing against Nash. I like his play. I don't particularly like his hair, but if it makes him money and gets him recognized by the likes of Liz Hurley, who am I to judge? But to call him an objective MVP, hmm...
Perhaps, since this seems to be the trend, we should rename the award "Player of the Year" award. There is a subtle difference, but it makes my point, and I think would make for a lot less controversy. Player of the year is almost like comeback player of the year. That year, you did something spectacular. It doesn't imply you are the best player that year, but just that you did something special, and like every year, there is 1 player that does something spectacular that should be recognized. If both awards exist, you have the featured player of the year (i.e. KG last season, perhaps his 3rd worse season as a pro, yet he got MVP because of the seed he got in the playoffs.) and the de facto MVP, who you can only really debate between Timmay and Shaq that season.
Another example is when Jason Kidd was second in MVP voting a couple years ago. He was the featured player of the year, taking the NJ NETS (MY GOD THE NETS!!!!) To the Finals. He should have been recognized. However, Timmay was clearly the better MVP candidate. By having a Player of the Year category, both are recognized, but honesty is maintained.
Nash is the kind of player, like MJ, who they made the game easier for (new foul rules regarding hand checking for Nash's era, Palming and no-calls on double dribbling and O-fouls for the MJ era) However, while MJ got some MAJOR star treatment (read: unfair) Nash had to deal with the same new rules as everyone else, and is excelling at them.
If Nash can win MVP, so can, for example, Ben Wallace. Yet, I am told that Ben can't even get a whiff of the HOF because he can't score, why the bias towards offensive players? If MVP just means you need to score, call it the OPOY. Or, qualify MVP for O and D like they do in football (something they actually do right IMHO).
I have nothing against Nash. I like his play. I don't particularly like his hair, but if it makes him money and gets him recognized by the likes of Liz Hurley, who am I to judge? But to call him an objective MVP, hmm...
Perhaps, since this seems to be the trend, we should rename the award "Player of the Year" award. There is a subtle difference, but it makes my point, and I think would make for a lot less controversy. Player of the year is almost like comeback player of the year. That year, you did something spectacular. It doesn't imply you are the best player that year, but just that you did something special, and like every year, there is 1 player that does something spectacular that should be recognized. If both awards exist, you have the featured player of the year (i.e. KG last season, perhaps his 3rd worse season as a pro, yet he got MVP because of the seed he got in the playoffs.) and the de facto MVP, who you can only really debate between Timmay and Shaq that season.
Another example is when Jason Kidd was second in MVP voting a couple years ago. He was the featured player of the year, taking the NJ NETS (MY GOD THE NETS!!!!) To the Finals. He should have been recognized. However, Timmay was clearly the better MVP candidate. By having a Player of the Year category, both are recognized, but honesty is maintained.
Bibby_Is_Clutch
Starter
If you just saw what Nash did then there should be NO doubt in your mind that this man is the MVP. He just scored 5 straight points to tie the game and send it to overtime. He hit a 3 to tie it after 4 straight free-throws by Dallas. Incredible game. Amare has fouled out and all other starters including Jim are in deep foul trouble.
Bibby_Is_Clutch
Starter
Big shot Nash just hit a 3 after Terry drilled one. He is on fire. He does not want this thing going back to Pheonix.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I have no idea what the hell they have been spiking Nash's water with, but I want some.
Numbers this series:
Gm 1: 11pts 6reb 13ast
Gm 2: 23pts 3reb 13ast
Gm 3: 27pts 3reb 17ast
Gm 4: 48pts 5reb 5ast
Gm 5: 34pts 13reb 12ast
Gm 6: 39pts 9reb 12ast
Avg: 30.3pts 6.5reb 12.0ast
Just ridiculous. I thought he should have been the MVP and was glad he got it. But that said, I NEVER would have thought he could put up numbers like that over a playoff series. Those are Magic numbers. Maybe even better than Magic numbers over the last three games.
Numbers this series:
Gm 1: 11pts 6reb 13ast
Gm 2: 23pts 3reb 13ast
Gm 3: 27pts 3reb 17ast
Gm 4: 48pts 5reb 5ast
Gm 5: 34pts 13reb 12ast
Gm 6: 39pts 9reb 12ast
Avg: 30.3pts 6.5reb 12.0ast
Just ridiculous. I thought he should have been the MVP and was glad he got it. But that said, I NEVER would have thought he could put up numbers like that over a playoff series. Those are Magic numbers. Maybe even better than Magic numbers over the last three games.
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A
AriesMar27
Guest
nash is something else but i doubt that the suns could do this against the spurs, pistons or heat.... nash would be slapped silly for driving to the basket and there is no way that marion would rebounding the ball like that against wallace.... they are playing the mavs.... bibby would do the same thing against them....
suns have 125 points but only 18 assists...... and 13 turnovers....
suns have 125 points but only 18 assists...... and 13 turnovers....
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
AriesMar27 said:
Mike Bibby would NOT average 30pts 6rebs 12ast in a series against ANYONE. No way.
A
AriesMar27
Guest
Bricklayer said:
i dont know.... this is the mavs we're talking about.... it could happen....
Bibby_Is_Clutch
Starter
AriesMar27 said:
As you might not be able to see, the Mavs are crazy good right now. They just ran into the best team.
Bibby_Is_Clutch
Starter
Terry doing everything he can to win this game. Looks like he will fall short. 39-9-12 for Nash... one rebound away from back to back playoff triple doubles.
A
AriesMar27
Guest
Bibby_Is_Clutch said:
2 teams that dont play any defense.... remember the 2003 playoffs against the mavs? 83 point half.... points dont mean anythin with these 2 teams... we'd be shocked if the didnt hit 120..... how cant you be crazy good when no one is defending you?
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
AriesMar27 said:
We played them three years in a row, Mike didn't put up anything like those numbers. And those were much worse defensive teams the Mavs had.
Nash just shredded the #8 defensive team in the league. Makes what Van Exel did to us a couple of years ago look like child's play.
Bibby_Is_Clutch
Starter
Their teams are built for offense. Detroit couldnt put up 120 night after night with the players they have. Now I do believe that Detroit will beat them in the Finals but you never know. BTW: The Suns won and will move on to play the Spurs.
Bibby_Is_Clutch
Starter
Bricklayer said:
Ya I doubt they are a bad defensive team.
loopymitch
All-Star
nikos, I just noticed your avatar, are you related to brick? lol
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