New starting lineup ideas

B

baller13

Guest
#1
Cousins- duh
Robinson- love his energy and bringing jt off the bench would really help balance the team
Johnson- not the best fit but he plays D and frankly we don't have anyone else.
Evans-defensively has been a beast and creates shots for others, hopefully jimmer can make some.
Fredette- at this point we have to hope the others can help civet for him on defense because we need his offense.
 
#2
I can understand the reasoning for the changes, but I think Robinson is a liability on offense and defense at this point. He looks like a tweener who can't guard fours and who doesn't have a post game but also lacks the ability to play on the wing. I'd actually have less of a problem starting Jimmer than Robinson. Sure, he is a very below average defender, but he plays unselfish and has been showing some real progress offensively. And since Isiah appears to have regressed from last season, this is actually a move that could be considered. I'd be even more on board with it if it made Tyreke the primary ballhandler again as I think that's where he's most comfortable/effective.

That said, tinkering with lineups is akin to rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

This roster is an absolute mess. No, wait this franchise is an absolute mess and will founder along in this same way until either the Maloofs sell or pack up and move to another city. There's no combination of players in a starting lineup that will cure the ills of the Kings and I have zero faith that the Maloofs care enough to push for moves to change that.
 
#3
Good set except for Robinson and Fredette. Thompson is one lone bright star amongst our starters. Fredette is intriguing but only a one-way player. Offense, yes. Defense, no way.
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#5
The problem with this offense is bigger than just simple lineup changes but they do need to look at the ways this team has been efficient and in the meantime rely on it more. I still say putting Hayes and Thornton in the starting lineup makes the most sense. If and when the offense struggles they can rely on the two man game between Hayes and Thornton because right now outside of Cousins going beast mode it's the only thing they've got. You'll never spread the floor with Evans and Johnson, teams know it, and they'll just keep playing 5 feet off of both until they hit those consistently. You can make up for a lack of shooting by moving players off screens and using backcuts to create space and shot opportunities. Now that would work perfectly IF we had a coach that believed in consistent minute and rotation management, but we don't.
 
#7
My idea for a new Lineup

ok so many of us have complained about the rotations from Day 1. now its gotten so bad that a large portion of Grant Napears show today has been about lineups and rotations.

so heres my idea. feel free to chime in

Starters:
PG: Tyreke
SG: Marcus
SF: Johnson (if he continues to miss every outside shot, we may have to insert Salmons here, or HOPEFULLY trade for a SF who can hit the 3)
PF: JT
C: DeMarcus

Bench
then off the bench you bring in IT as the backup PG, and you run a 3 guard rotation. where either MT or Tyreke are on the court at ALL times. ive seen it done on other teams. its the smartest thing to do. No need to play Brooks/Jimmer unless theres an injury or a blowout.
So for example u bring in IT for Marcus towards the end of the 1st so its IT/Reke backcourt. then after a 5 minute rest for Marcus u bring him back in and take out Reke so now its a IT/MT backcourt. then after Tyrekes rest bring him back in for IT and now its back to the starting backcourt. and repeat the process in the second half. SIMPLE!

for the backup SF, it should be Salmons for now. no Outlaw or Garcia EVER

Robinson/Hayes as the backup 4 and 5, but gotta make sure DMC gets 38mpg if hes not in foul trouble.....

now players have roles, Tyreke can be a playmaker, u have a 8-9 man rotation and the team will look much better i guarantee.


so theres my plan! too bad Smart probably wont do anything to change the team
 
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#8
Pass on Jimmer starting, I'm content with IT starting. We need to keep it there, we can only do so much with the roster we have. Changing starting line ups constantly isn't going to do much for us.
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#9
At this point, it doesn't matter one iota who the hell starts and who comes off the bench.

Know why? Because Smart doesn't appear to differentiate between starters and the 10th, 11th and 12th man. Until we have a coach who defines roles and actually has a sub patterns which resembles the bench giving the starters a breather rather than basically splitting the game in half with two lineups, it doesn't matter.

Does Smart manage our starters correctly? No.

Does Smart manage our bench correctly? No.

So it really doesn't matter who the hell you move back and forth between the two. Smart doesn't appear to recognize what has worked and what hasn't, and is more concerned with everyone getting time no matter the matchup problems or who's playing well/not.

If someone disagrees, I'd like to hear two things, just two, which we've done well, Smart recognized and then went back too. Just two things. Any two things.
 
#10
Evans
MT
Salmons
JT
Cousins

I guess we should go back to last years starting lineup at the start of the year. With the team we have out there now they just pack the paint and wait for us to miss a jump shot. At least this would give us some outside shooting and keep the defense decent enough. At least until the trade deadline.

Smart is a terrible coach and shouldn't be here. So maybe lose him and get a coach who has a plan, who isn't always in "tinkering" mode.
 
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#11
Cousins- duh
Robinson- love his energy and bringing jt off the bench would really help balance the team
Johnson- not the best fit but he plays D and frankly we don't have anyone else.
Evans-defensively has been a beast and creates shots for others, hopefully jimmer can make some.
Fredette- at this point we have to hope the others can help civet for him on defense because we need his offense.
Obviously Jimmer should be a starter, as a 1 or 2, doesn't really matter. However, i'd definitely start JT and bring in Robinson for 20 minutes a game.

PG/SG Reke
PG/SG Jimmer
SF JJ
PF JT
C Cuz

GREAT defensive potential and with a newly added Jimmer, the offensive production will increase dramatically.
 
#12
Kevin Johnson
Mitch Richmond
Peja
Chris Webber
Demarcus

Even in their retired states, this team could play circles around Smart's starting 5.
 
B

baller13

Guest
#14
Pass on Jimmer starting, I'm content with IT starting. We need to keep it there, we can only do so much with the roster we have. Changing starting line ups constantly isn't going to do much for us.
IT and jimmer average the same number of assists and jimmer averages 14 less minutes. I don't want to hear about the ball not being in IT's hands because it's the same offense when jimmer is in. IT has the ball in his hands plenty but he only looks for himself.
 
#15
I agree, but neither are IT and brooks. And So far jimmer has outplayed them. I dint like it either but it's time to give him a shot
exactly. so then you should agree with my Plan i posted in this thread. where i wanna see Reke back at the 1. with Thornton at the 2. and IT coming off the bench
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#16
At this point, it doesn't matter one iota who the hell starts and who comes off the bench.

Know why? Because Smart doesn't appear to differentiate between starters and the 10th, 11th and 12th man. Until we have a coach who defines roles and actually has a sub patterns which resembles the bench giving the starters a breather rather than basically splitting the game in half with two lineups, it doesn't matter.

Does Smart manage our starters correctly? No.

Does Smart manage our bench correctly? No.

So it really doesn't matter who the hell you move back and forth between the two. Smart doesn't appear to recognize what has worked and what hasn't, and is more concerned with everyone getting time no matter the matchup problems or who's playing well/not.

If someone disagrees, I'd like to hear two things, just two, which we've done well, Smart recognized and then went back too. Just two things. Any two things.
What he said.
 
#17
At this point, it doesn't matter one iota who the hell starts and who comes off the bench.

Know why? Because Smart doesn't appear to differentiate between starters and the 10th, 11th and 12th man. Until we have a coach who defines roles and actually has a sub patterns which resembles the bench giving the starters a breather rather than basically splitting the game in half with two lineups, it doesn't matter.

Does Smart manage our starters correctly? No.

Does Smart manage our bench correctly? No.


So it really doesn't matter who the hell you move back and forth between the two. Smart doesn't appear to recognize what has worked and what hasn't, and is more concerned with everyone getting time no matter the matchup problems or who's playing well/not.

If someone disagrees, I'd like to hear two things, just two, which we've done well, Smart recognized and then went back too. Just two things. Any two things.
I think Coach Smart feels the need to treat everyone in this "family" as equals and doesn't want to hurt their feelings. He's taking this "player's coach" thing too far. He can't possibly think that a winning team would have their 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th players playing equal minutes to his starters....can he? He sticks with lineups WAAAAYYYYY too long that aren't working.
 
#18
Tyreke is not a pg, he is not good at getting us into our offensive sets. Theres a reason we improved drastically offesnively last year when Smart handed the reign over to IT. The same needs to happen this year, Tyreke see's too many isolations right now and defenses have what he's going to do scouted. His lack of outside, midrange and close range floaters make him an extremely easy player to defend. His shooting has not improved at all and is better playing off the ball using his speed and strength to cut to the rim and focus on defense so that most of his shots come in the open court. Tyreke defenders need to accept this, Tyreke will never be the Wade, Rose, Westbrook you guys want him to be. He could be a very effective Igoudala type though, thats the ceiling i see for Tyreke.
 
#19
Tyreke is not a pg, he is not good at getting us into our offensive sets. Theres a reason we improved drastically offesnively last year when Smart handed the reign over to IT. The same needs to happen this year, Tyreke see's too many isolations right now and defenses have what he's going to do scouted. His lack of outside, midrange and close range floaters make him an extremely easy player to defend. His shooting has not improved at all and is better playing off the ball using his speed and strength to cut to the rim and focus on defense so that most of his shots come in the open court. Tyreke defenders need to accept this, Tyreke will never be the Wade, Rose, Westbrook you guys want him to be. He could be a very effective Igoudala type though, thats the ceiling i see for Tyreke.
And Tyreke critics need to show me these supposed offensive sets that he's supposed to be running. That or concede that nobody else on the team is initiating these sets either.
 
#20
i wouldn't mind seeing a starting line up of

C Cousins
PF Hayes
SF Johnson
SG MT or Jimmer (since jimmer is doing well at the moment)
PG Evans

Hayes has the assignment of guarding the opposing teams scoring big man. he can also stay at the high post to clear room for cousins down low as well as set up passes to cutting johnson or evans. Cousins would hopefully get in less foul trouble with hayes working on opposing teams scoring bigs and concentrate on offense and rebounding. Johnson whose outside shot is pretty much non existent, will hopefully get more baskets off cutting with hayes in, or pretty much set screens while concentrating on defense. With evans being scouted, they know he still doesnt have the outside shot and will try to pack the paint, but with hayes up at the high post to draw out a big man, and our shooting guard spreading the floor, hopefully he will have more room to drive to the rim or drive and dish to an open 2 guard. MT or Jimmer are here to make the 3. Evans should be able to cover defensively for the smaller guard and hopefully they can hit open shots. Right now jimmer seems to be making his shots while MT is in a bit of a rut, but i see them both as offensive minded smaller guards that isnt great defensively so either can start.

This leaves JT as the first big off the bench who can guard the 4 or 5. also if smart does his substitution by committee i believe a jt/trob sub will bring more of a scoring punch than a hayes/trob sub. since i said i saw MT and jimmer as interchangeable i would have the one that is not starting, come off the bench for the other, or IT come in for either and move evans to the 2. if we need to spell evans, we can move mt to the 2 or have salmons come in at the 2.
 
#21
Evans
MT
Salmons
JT
Cousins

I guess we should go back to last years starting lineup at the start of the year. With the team we have out there now they just pack the paint and wait for us to miss a jump shot. At least this would give us some outside shooting and keep the defense decent enough. At least until the trade deadline.

Smart is a terrible coach and shouldn't be here. So maybe lose him and get a coach who has a plan, who isn't always in "tinkering" mode.
I can't believe I'm agreeing with you. That hasn't happened in a while...

Smart has a dream job to be honest. His job description basically consists of one line: Baby and coddle Cousins. Him doing that has earned him a good 3 years pay while the team is still in shambles and still has no hope of reaching the playoffs under him. Not a bad job is it? Get paid millions of dollars just to be a guy's friend.
 
#22
I think Coach Smart feels the need to treat everyone in this "family" as equals and doesn't want to hurt their feelings. He's taking this "player's coach" thing too far. He can't possibly think that a winning team would have their 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th players playing equal minutes to his starters....can he? He sticks with lineups WAAAAYYYYY too long that aren't working.
I don't think it's this... I feel like Smart is in perpetual preseason mode. He can't find a lineup he likes, so he's going to put the team through a second full season of player battles and job insecurity. That and he's probably trying to showcase enough of his players hoping for a bigger and better trade. I.e., if you put IT, Jimmer, Brooks, etc. on the bench for too long their trade value plummets. Take for instance Jimmer... Whether or not you like him at all or even want to see him anywhere near the floor, you have to admit that the last few weeks have boosted his trade value significantly over where he was to start the season. Smart probably feels like no combination of players on the current team = playoffs, so he's hoping to play them enough to draw interest in a trade.
 
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#23
I don't think it's this... I feel like Smart is in perpetual preseason mode. He can't find a lineup he likes, so he's going to put the team through a second full season of player battles and job insecurity. That and he's probably trying to showcase enough of his players hoping for a bigger and better trade. I.e., if you put IT, Jimmer, Brooks, etc. on the bench for too long their trade value plummets. Take for instance Jimmer... Whether or not you like him at all or even want to see him anywhere near the floor, you have to admit that the last few weeks has boosted his trade value significantly over where he was to start the season. Smart probably feels like no combination of players on the current team = playoffs, so he's hoping to play them enough to draw interest in a trade.
I doubt it. Petrie has shown nothing in the last four years to indicate that he can get any sort of valuable trade done. There were a few decent small forward prospects available in the off-season and there were never any rumors that any of them were headed this way. Whether or not Smart's bizarre rotations can increase the trade value of a few of our deep bench players, Petrie seems unable or unwilling to move anyone to clear out the logjam among the guards and get us a small forward who fits with Tyreke.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#24
From listening to Smart on the radio yesterday, it sounded as if he's going to wait until Sunday to start tightening his lineup. I'm probably reading too much into it, but it almost sounded to me that Smart wanted to have a "shoot if you're open" philosophy early-on so that it became obvious to everybody on the team who could shoot and who couldn't. It makes it easier on him to tell a guy that he's just not going to get the touches if game after game it's proven that the guy doesn't deserve the touches.
 
#25
From listening to Smart on the radio yesterday, it sounded as if he's going to wait until Sunday to start tightening his lineup. I'm probably reading too much into it, but it almost sounded to me that Smart wanted to have a "shoot if you're open" philosophy early-on so that it became obvious to everybody on the team who could shoot and who couldn't. It makes it easier on him to tell a guy that he's just not going to get the touches if game after game it's proven that the guy doesn't deserve the touches.
Time will tell. Meanwhile, we get to deal with a green light free-for-all during these next few games? Preseason ended a while ago...
 
#26
From listening to Smart on the radio yesterday, it sounded as if he's going to wait until Sunday to start tightening his lineup. I'm probably reading too much into it, but it almost sounded to me that Smart wanted to have a "shoot if you're open" philosophy early-on so that it became obvious to everybody on the team who could shoot and who couldn't. It makes it easier on him to tell a guy that he's just not going to get the touches if game after game it's proven that the guy doesn't deserve the touches.
Smart says a lot of things. Some of them are good, others make you want to jump off a cliff. I wouldn't read much into anything he says - let what you see on the court speak for itself. No point in getting your hopes up with Smart. In fact, he said it himself that he sometimes says things he doesn't mean.
 
#27
From listening to Smart on the radio yesterday, it sounded as if he's going to wait until Sunday to start tightening his lineup. I'm probably reading too much into it, but it almost sounded to me that Smart wanted to have a "shoot if you're open" philosophy early-on so that it became obvious to everybody on the team who could shoot and who couldn't. It makes it easier on him to tell a guy that he's just not going to get the touches if game after game it's proven that the guy doesn't deserve the touches.
Smart says a lot of things.

edit -- posted before I saw mac's response above.
 
#28
From listening to Smart on the radio yesterday, it sounded as if he's going to wait until Sunday to start tightening his lineup. I'm probably reading too much into it, but it almost sounded to me that Smart wanted to have a "shoot if you're open" philosophy early-on so that it became obvious to everybody on the team who could shoot and who couldn't. It makes it easier on him to tell a guy that he's just not going to get the touches if game after game it's proven that the guy doesn't deserve the touches.
Nice spin, he should be working in the PR field. In another word, he is full of it.
 
#29
At this point, it doesn't matter one iota who the hell starts and who comes off the bench.

Know why? Because Smart doesn't appear to differentiate between starters and the 10th, 11th and 12th man. Until we have a coach who defines roles and actually has a sub patterns which resembles the bench giving the starters a breather rather than basically splitting the game in half with two lineups, it doesn't matter.

Does Smart manage our starters correctly? No.

Does Smart manage our bench correctly? No.

So it really doesn't matter who the hell you move back and forth between the two. Smart doesn't appear to recognize what has worked and what hasn't, and is more concerned with everyone getting time no matter the matchup problems or who's playing well/not.

If someone disagrees, I'd like to hear two things, just two, which we've done well, Smart recognized and then went back too. Just two things. Any two things.

I agree with you for the most part, I just differ in that I don't give Smart AS MUCH of the blame as you do for the terrible start. I certainly blame him for some, but I also lay a lot of this at the feet of the players.

One thing I will say is that our best players are still getting the most minutes. Out top 4 players (Evans/MT/Cousins/JT) are all at or over 30mpg. Tyreke leads the team in MPG. This isn't a huge deal, but the game threads are covered in 'get Evans back in' or 'the coach never plays Evans' when, in fact, he has had the most playing time on the team. I'm fine with Evans leading the team in minutes, by the way. I'm not fine with the fact that he's shooting a career low in FG%, and it's by a lot. We just cannot have that.

There are things that I blame Smart for. I think the rotation is a ****ing mess. But there are basketball things that are not his fault that have also totally sunk us.

-Evans career low FG%
-Cousins foul trouble and suspension
-Robinson suspension
-Marcus Thornton shooting a career low, and totally awful .238 3P%
-Isaiah Thomas and Aaron Brooks playing like the worst PG tandem in the entire league
-James Johnson's incredibly poor offense, while taking way to many WTF shot's per game.


Now, as for a starting lineup ... I think I would keep it as is. But I would shorten the damn rotation by about 3 players. Give me

Thomas / Jimmer
Evans / Thornton
Johnson / Salmons*
Thompson / Robinson
Cousins / Hayes

*Salmons only plays under certain circumstances. Slide Evans to the 3 most of the time when JJ comes out. I don't need to see Brooks, Garcia, or Outlaw any more.
 
#30
I'd like to see Tyreke and Jimmer running together for some bigger minutes.

Tyreke
Jimmer
Salmons
JT
Cuz

would at least give us good/decent shooting for rekes drives but would no doubt be a mess on defense.