Nene Opting Out

[bajaden]

Actually Nene is noted for his solid defense. Is he Dalembert on the boards or as a shot blocker? No, but that doesn't mean he's not as a good or better a defender in some other areas. You shouldn't underrate the ability to do little things like understand team defense and team rebounding, catching the ball in the paint and finishing regularly, setting good screens, helping an offense flow, etc.

You make a good point. There is more to defense than shotblocking, and I'm by not means taking away anything from the elite shotblockers in the league. Of which there are few! As an example, the Kings have been killed by the pick and roll in the past, and defending the pick and roll has nothing to do with shotblocking, although it can come into play. There are several different ways to defend the pick and roll, and by the same token, there are several variations of the pick and roll that can be used to adjust to those defenses. So ultimately, it comes down to recognition by the defending team. Which ususally means a team with the most experience has the best chance of succeeding.

So where am I going with this? Dalembert is merely OK at defending the pick and roll and Nene is very good at defending the pick and roll. Actually, last season Cousins pick and roll defense was at times better than Dalemberts, but his recognition was poor. I can't tell you how many times they pressed the ball with Cousins, Dalembert stepped into the lane to cut it off, but they got backdoored because someone else forgot to rotate to the basket. Poor recognition! But thats what makes the pick and roll so effective. It puts pressure on the defense to react, and then the offense adjusts to that reaction.

If our quest is perfection, its a waste of time. There is no perfect player. whether its Dalembert, Nene, Chandler, Gasol etc., they all have flaws, but they all bring something to the table. All four mentioned are talented, and would be a desirable addition to just about any team. So I won't be upset with any of them. I have my perference, just like everyone else, but any of those four would be a win/win as far as I'm concerned. My personal preference? Chandler!

Why? Because he's a little more athletic than Dalembert, which helps when having to cover some the PF's in the league. He's not quite the shotblocker that Dally is, but he probably alters as many shots if not more. And thats the real bottom line for a shotblocker. How many shots or decisions do you alter? Because the 1.5 shots a game you block, in and of themselves are not significant. He's also a better man on man position defender. He's hard to move on the block. Plus, Chandler is a total team player. He cares not how many shots he takes in a game. He never demands the ball.

 

[Glenn]

A side effect of Nene opting out is that there are now 4 major bigs who could demand significant salaries. There aren't that many teams who could afford even one of them. His opting out may have guaranteed us getting one of them. I would hope the Kings approach all four with the intent of signing one.

 

[Bricklayer]

A side effect of Nene opting out is that there are now 4 major bigs who could demand significant salaries. There aren't that many teams who could afford even one of them. His opting out may have guaranteed us getting one of them. I would hope the Kings approach all four with the intent of signing one.

This could indeed be a silver lining.

 

[bajaden]

This could indeed be a silver lining.

Yep, it could be very interesting. Hey! Maybe we can sign two of them..

 

[SCKingsfan]

Yep, it could be very interesting. Hey! Maybe we can sign two of them..

Let's not get carried away now

 

[SacTownKid]

You make a good point. There is more to defense than shotblocking, and I'm by not means taking away anything from the elite shotblockers in the league. Of which there are few! As an example, the Kings have been killed by the pick and roll in the past, and defending the pick and roll has nothing to do with shotblocking, although it can come into play. There are several different ways to defend the pick and roll, and by the same token, there are several variations of the pick and roll that can be used to adjust to those defenses. So ultimately, it comes down to recognition by the defending team. Which ususally means a team with the most experience has the best chance of succeeding.

So where am I going with this? Dalembert is merely OK at defending the pick and roll and Nene is very good at defending the pick and roll. Actually, last season Cousins pick and roll defense was at times better than Dalemberts, but his recognition was poor. I can't tell you how many times they pressed the ball with Cousins, Dalembert stepped into the lane to cut it off, but they got backdoored because someone else forgot to rotate to the basket. Poor recognition! But thats what makes the pick and roll so effective. It puts pressure on the defense to react, and then the offense adjusts to that reaction.

If our quest is perfection, its a waste of time. There is no perfect player. whether its Dalembert, Nene, Chandler, Gasol etc., they all have flaws, but they all bring something to the table. All four mentioned are talented, and would be a desirable addition to just about any team. So I won't be upset with any of them. I have my perference, just like everyone else, but any of those four would be a win/win as far as I'm concerned. My personal preference? Chandler!

Why? Because he's a little more athletic than Dalembert, which helps when having to cover some the PF's in the league. He's not quite the shotblocker that Dally is, but he probably alters as many shots if not more. And thats the real bottom line for a shotblocker. How many shots or decisions do you alter? Because the 1.5 shots a game you block, in and of themselves are not significant. He's also a better man on man position defender. He's hard to move on the block. Plus, Chandler is a total team player. He cares not how many shots he takes in a game. He never demands the ball.

Well, I think it's safe to say that Chandler is probably number one on every teams wish list this summer, but there are a few problems some of which have been mentioned. The biggest one is that no way does Cuban let him go, so in a sense, it's probably a waste of time to even try. I doubt the sincerity of Denver in trying to retain Nene. They need to rebuild and if they are fooled into thinking their late surge was the new norm, they're going to be in for a loooong Kings-esque decline. The other problem with Chandler is how much do you pay a guy like him? Nene isn't a prolific offensive player by any means, but if I'm paying major dollars to a player you better have the ability to go to any team and be one of their top 3 talents offensively. You limit yourself in your ability to move a role related player since what they are is limited to that particular role. Nene at less money would probably have more trade value than Chandler's 8 ppg and 8 rpg to a larger portion of teams since said team would have to be built a certain way for Chandler to be worth that kind of money to them. Chandler is a "last piece" type of player, Nene still has the abilities to make up some scoring on a team needing talent. Depends on the difference in price of course, but the Kings could make no bigger mistake in the world than trying to outbid Cuban. They know what they get with Chandler, still a major question here, you always need that out.

My guess is the Kings use one of their young bigs, Thompson I would think, to offer either Dallas or Denver for Chandler or Nene. Getting Thompson while not having to sign Nene back as your foundation piece is probably a smart move for Denver. Dallas would laugh at that deal because they just won the championship, no need to change any major parts for them. Dallas could never sell a loss of Chandler and the gain of a Thompson level player to their fans. Denver could say, "hey, we've got a decent young prospect and future cap savings." Basically they'd be saving themselves from themselves. Nene's presence could be worth a lot to the Kings, not nearly as much to Denver I think.

 

[bajaden]

Well, I think it's safe to say that Chandler is probably number one on every teams wish list this summer, but there are a few problems some of which have been mentioned. The biggest one is that no way does Cuban let him go, so in a sense, it's probably a waste of time to even try. I doubt the sincerity of Denver in trying to retain Nene. They need to rebuild and if they are fooled into thinking their late surge was the new norm, they're going to be in for a loooong Kings-esque decline. The other problem with Chandler is how much do you pay a guy like him? Nene isn't a prolific offensive player by any means, but if I'm paying major dollars to a player you better have the ability to go to any team and be one of their top 3 talents offensively. You limit yourself in your ability to move a role related player since what they are is limited to that particular role. Nene at less money would probably have more trade value than Chandler's 8 ppg and 8 rpg to a larger portion of teams since said team would have to be built a certain way for Chandler to be worth that kind of money to them. Chandler is a "last piece" type of player, Nene still has the abilities to make up some scoring on a team needing talent. Depends on the difference in price of course, but the Kings could make no bigger mistake in the world than trying to outbid Cuban. They know what they get with Chandler, still a major question here, you always need that out.

My guess is the Kings use one of their young bigs, Thompson I would think, to offer either Dallas or Denver for Chandler or Nene. Getting Thompson while not having to sign Nene back as your foundation piece is probably a smart move for Denver. Dallas would laugh at that deal because they just won the championship, no need to change any major parts for them. Dallas could never sell a loss of Chandler and the gain of a Thompson level player to their fans. Denver could say, "hey, we've got a decent young prospect and future cap savings." Basically they'd be saving themselves from themselves. Nene's presence could be worth a lot to the Kings, not nearly as much to Denver I think.

Well, I said Chandler was my first choice. I wasn't arguing the difficulty of aquiring him. As for Dallas, and how much it would take to sign Chandler? It all depends on the new CBA. We could sit and discuss what it'll turn out to be all night long to no avail. But if the owners get what they want, Dallas won't be signing anyone, much less Chandler. As for a trade with Thompson, I don't see anything like that happening. We're either able to sign him outright, or we move on to the next player. I realize your were using Chandler's career stats, but last season he almost averaged a double/double at 10.1 PPG and 9.4 RPG. And like Nene, he shot over 60% from the floor.

So while he's not the offensive player Nene is, he'll still get you 8 to 12 points a game, and he's an overall better defensive player and rebounder than Nene. But hey, I'd be happy with Nene as well. Somebody has to be first.

 

[KingsCitizen]

I realized one thing today that Nene would be a better fit than Chandler on this team. And that is because Nene bring more offensive game than Chandler and because Cousins is not as offensively gifted as Dirk is.

IMO, Chandler was never a priced position of any team until he teamed up with Dirk. Why? because Dirk is possibly the most offensively potent big man in this league that allows Chandler's offensive game to be rather taken for granted. With Dirk still effective beyond the arc, Chandler enjoys a lot of open alloy-oops because team have to guard and follow Dirk even at the 3-pt line. With this Chandler was able to bring 8-10 pts to the table which is somewhat of a bonus but still very useful contribution.

But Cousins will never be the scorer that Dirk is. Cousins will never stretch his game beyond the perimeter like Dirk does. And with this, teams could easily double on Cousins and still easily switch back to Chandler because both plays within 5-ft from the rim. This sort of game would expose Chandler's poor offensive game very badly because he needs to at least be a legit scorer to make team play an honest defense on Boogie. Looking back at the Hornets team, when Chandler was paired with David West, he was just an ordinary big.

Duncan-Robinson worked because the admiral plays good offensive game too. So did Divac and Webber.

Nene has been on Petrie's radar for several seasons, I won't be surprised if we offer Nene a big payday.

 

[bajaden]

Nowitzki: 1st year in the league. 8.2 PPG, 3.5 RPG, while shooting 40.5% overall from the floor.

Cousins: 1st year in the league. 14.1 PPG, 8.6 RPG, while shooting 43% overall from the floor.

I'm not saying that Cousins will be better or as good based on each players first year. But I'am saying, that making a blanket statement about what a players overall potential is, based on his first year is totally ridiculous. You, and I, have no idea just how good Cousins may or may not be. He may be a HOF player for all we know. Also, a player with a poor offensive game is a player that takes 15 shots a game, and only makes a third of them. Its not a player that takes 8 shots a game and makes 62% of them. Chandler, as Bricky pointed out in his recommendation of Dalembert, is a perfect because he doesn't need the ball on offense. He simply takes what comes along, and he's damm efficent at it.

By the way. Dirk was so bad his rookie year in Dallas that the fans were ready to run him out of town..

 

[Bricklayer]

I realized one thing today that Nene would be a better fit than Chandler on this team. And that is because Nene bring more offensive game than Chandler and because Cousins is not as offensively gifted as Dirk is.

IMO, Chandler was never a priced position of any team until he teamed up with Dirk. Why? because Dirk is possibly the most offensively potent big man in this league that allows Chandler's offensive game to be rather taken for granted. With Dirk still effective beyond the arc, Chandler enjoys a lot of open alloy-oops because team have to guard and follow Dirk even at the 3-pt line. With this Chandler was able to bring 8-10 pts to the table which is somewhat of a bonus but still very useful contribution.

But Cousins will never be the scorer that Dirk is. Cousins will never stretch his game beyond the perimeter like Dirk does. And with this, teams could easily double on Cousins and still easily switch back to Chandler because both plays within 5-ft from the rim. This sort of game would expose Chandler's poor offensive game very badly because he needs to at least be a legit scorer to make team play an honest defense on Boogie. Looking back at the Hornets team, when Chandler was paired with David West, he was just an ordinary big.

Duncan-Robinson worked because the admiral plays good offensive game too. So did Divac and Webber.

Nene has been on Petrie's radar for several seasons, I won't be surprised if we offer Nene a big payday.

Not sure what Demarcus you have been watching, but his perimeter skills on offense might be the best of any pure center in the game today. Not to mention his passing skills which I think ARE the best of any pure center in the game today. Doubling DeMarcus off a big target like Chandler who excels at cutting to the rim would be a great way to get scored on roughly 100% of the times you attempted it. This was preceisely how Chandler was so effective in New Orleans with CP3. Despite hsi lack of offensive skills, you can't leave him or he goes right to the front of the rim, and if whoever has the ball can pass its a dunk.

As an aside, for the thousandeth time guys, you can NOT look at the frontcourt in isolation. Duncan and Robionson were great together, yes. But who were their backcourt people? Sean Elliot in decline, Avery Johnson one year, Bruce Bowen after a while etc.. Not a single major scorer amonst them. Roleplayers and spot shooters all. Which of course meant that the Twin Towers on that team had all the shots and all the touches they could need. Now compare that to the Kings, starting abackcourt of two young guys who BOTH look to be 20ppg type scorers and might not have enough balls/shots to go around as is. And it should also be noted that not only one, but BOTH of the Twin Toiwers (part II) were all time great interior defenders, which is why that team won. Which is a trait linking virtually every championship team. Here: Tyson Chandler, Andrew Bynum, Kendrick Perkins/Kevin Garnett, Shaquille O'Neal, Tim Duncan (and David Robinson), Big Ben Wallace (and Rasheed Wallace), Dennis Rodman, Hakeem Olajuwon, Horace Grant, Bill Laimbeer (along with John Salley and Dennis Rodman), Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Kevin McHale...you know how long its been since a championship team did not have at least 1 of its 2 frontcourt starters as an intimidating interior defender? THIRTY years. At least. Jimmy Carter was president. The Atari console was state of the art. Phones weren't even cordless, let alone cellular. Russia was still the Soviet Union. And isn't it funny that through all the bleating a few years back about how Phoenix and the run n gun teams time was coming, the teams with the big interior defenders just kept on winning the titles. And all the bleating about how its a little man's game now, the teams with the great interior defenders just kept on winning (where was Dallas last year before Chandler, anybody remember? First round exit). This franchise has won exactly diddly in the past FIFTY years. At some point it would incredibly behoove it to start emulating the franchises that DO win.

 

[SacTownKid]

I realized one thing today that Nene would be a better fit than Chandler on this team. And that is because Nene bring more offensive game than Chandler and because Cousins is not as offensively gifted as Dirk is.

IMO, Chandler was never a priced position of any team until he teamed up with Dirk. Why? because Dirk is possibly the most offensively potent big man in this league that allows Chandler's offensive game to be rather taken for granted. With Dirk still effective beyond the arc, Chandler enjoys a lot of open alloy-oops because team have to guard and follow Dirk even at the 3-pt line. With this Chandler was able to bring 8-10 pts to the table which is somewhat of a bonus but still very useful contribution.

But Cousins will never be the scorer that Dirk is. Cousins will never stretch his game beyond the perimeter like Dirk does. And with this, teams could easily double on Cousins and still easily switch back to Chandler because both plays within 5-ft from the rim. This sort of game would expose Chandler's poor offensive game very badly because he needs to at least be a legit scorer to make team play an honest defense on Boogie. Looking back at the Hornets team, when Chandler was paired with David West, he was just an ordinary big.

Duncan-Robinson worked because the admiral plays good offensive game too. So did Divac and Webber.

Nene has been on Petrie's radar for several seasons, I won't be surprised if we offer Nene a big payday.

On the other hand though, the Kings probably have more pure scoring talent than the Mavs, in fact, I know they do. The Mavs have that one superstar piece, but I think the Kings potentially have one of the most purely talented teams overall in the league. Doesn't mean it they can play together but the talent is there. Just different.

I'm down for Nene for a few reasons like fit, fills a total combination of more needs, and most importantly he's realistically attainable. Sometimes you go after the talent you have an actual shot at. Sure, you try to get one if it's better but you have to be realistic. It's like the Vlade pickup, nobody was rolling out the red carpet and bouncing off the walls but he was realistically attainable and fit. Fit will always work to a degree.

 

[SacTownKid]

Not sure what Demarcus you have been watching, but his perimeter skills on offense might be the best of any pure center in the game today. Not to mention his passing skills which I think ARE the best of any pure center in the game today. Doubling DeMarcus off a big target like Chandler who excels at cutting to the rim would be a great way to get scored on roughly 100% of the times you attempted it. This was preceisely how Chandler was so effective in New Orleans with CP3. Despite hsi lack of offensive skills, you can't leave him or he goes right to the front of the rim, and if whoever has the ball can pass its a dunk.

As an aside, for the thousandeth time guys, you can NOT look at the frontcourt in isolation. Duncan and Robionson were great together, yes. But who were their backcourt people? Sean Elliot in decline, Avery Johnson one year, Bruce Bowen after a while etc.. Not a single major scorer amonst them. Roleplayers and spot shooters all. Which of course meant that the Twin Towers on that team had all the shots and all the touches they could need. Now compare that to the Kings, starting abackcourt of two young guys who BOTH look to be 20ppg type scorers and might not have enough balls/shots to go around as is. And it should also be noted that not only one, but BOTH of the Twin Toiwers (part II) were all time great interior defenders, which is why that team won. Which is a trait linking virtually every championship team. Here: Tyson Chandler, Andrew Bynum, Kendrick Perkins/Kevin Garnett, Shaquille O'Neal, Tim Duncan (and David Robinson), Big Ben Wallace (and Rasheed Wallace), Dennis Rodman, Hakeem Olajuwon, Horace Grant, Bill Laimbeer (along with John Salley and Dennis Rodman), Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Kevin McHale...you know how long its been since a championship team did not have at least 1 of its 2 frontcourt starters as an intimidating interior defender? THIRTY years. At least. Jimmy Carter was president. The Atari console was state of the art. Phones weren't even cordless, let alone cellular. Russia was still the Soviet Union. And isn't it funny that through all the bleating a few years back about how Phoenix and the run n gun teams time was coming, the teams with the big interior defenders just kept on winning the titles. And all the bleating about how its a little man's game now, the teams with the great interior defenders just kept on winning (where was Dallas last year before Chandler, anybody remember? First round exit). This franchise has won exactly diddly in the past FIFTY years. At some point it would incredibly behoove it to start emulating the franchises that DO win.

Except there are going to be plenty of times where DeMarcus, Hickson, or whoever is posting up, or Tyreke is driving to the rim. I totally want to see Cousins in that high post, but for a team relying on post play, a player like Chandler can indeed end up less effective.

I agree with the historical perspective but in recent times with both the Lakers and the Celtics, quite often their games finished without said "rim protector" on the floor. The Lakers won that first chip in '09 with Bynum playing an average of 17 minutes per game, Odom and Gasol averaged 31 and 40 respectively. The year the C's won the title Garnett averaged a whopping 1.1 bpg and he was hardly the inside defensive presence he used to be. The C's averaged 4.5 bpg as a team that year, hardly world beaters in that department.

Chandler was certainly an important piece to that team, but I also quite vividly remember a team that just destroyed opponents from downtown. They nearly shot 40% from 3 the entire playoffs!!! That's just insane. They also only blocked about 4 shots a game. Their team defense is what stood out, their ability to switch every single pick and roll and not get killed is what was jaw dropping. I'd rate their interior defense lower than other aspects of their defense for sure even though it was present. Nene could help the Kings in a lot of the same aspects of defense that made the Mavs effective. Finding that "Pollard" or Keon Clark type is the next step. Whiteside!!!!.....hopefully.

 

[SacTownKid]

Well, I said Chandler was my first choice. I wasn't arguing the difficulty of aquiring him. As for Dallas, and how much it would take to sign Chandler? It all depends on the new CBA. We could sit and discuss what it'll turn out to be all night long to no avail. But if the owners get what they want, Dallas won't be signing anyone, much less Chandler. As for a trade with Thompson, I don't see anything like that happening. We're either able to sign him outright, or we move on to the next player. I realize your were using Chandler's career stats, but last season he almost averaged a double/double at 10.1 PPG and 9.4 RPG. And like Nene, he shot over 60% from the floor.

So while he's not the offensive player Nene is, he'll still get you 8 to 12 points a game, and he's an overall better defensive player and rebounder than Nene. But hey, I'd be happy with Nene as well. Somebody has to be first.

Still, the end result of whatever happens in the next CBA will come down to percentages, a certain player will take up a relative amount of space on a teams cap which in turn relates directly to their value.

I really doubt owners are trying to change the system so they can't keep talent. It's all a scheme to get players to take less guaranteed money which they hope will help abolish the possibility of players not living up to their contract. Owners think players get fat, and quit until the next contract year. Sometimes it's true, other times not. Chandler himself has been accused of that very thing a time or two in his career. Owners aren't going to hamstring themselves from keeping their own talent, I'll be shocked if it ends up that way.

 

[KingsCitizen]

Not sure what Demarcus you have been watching, but his perimeter skills on offense might be the best of any pure center in the game today. Not to mention his passing skills which I think ARE the best of any pure center in the game today. Doubling DeMarcus off a big target like Chandler who excels at cutting to the rim would be a great way to get scored on roughly 100% of the times you attempted it. This was preceisely how Chandler was so effective in New Orleans with CP3. Despite hsi lack of offensive skills, you can't leave him or he goes right to the front of the rim, and if whoever has the ball can pass its a dunk.

IMO, I believe I watch enough of Demarcus to say that he will never be able to duplicate what Dirk does offensively. But that's not saying that Cousins is not a very good offensive player or that he will not be able to reach Dirk's scoring figures. It's just that comparing his game to Dirk is like comparing grapes and eggnogs. Cousins is like grapes. It's already a very good fruit at its young age but it'll make an even more expensive wine if it's age beautifully. But it'll never taste like eggnogs. Dirk is just a very unique player in this league.


On a side note, I can't wait for the lockout to end. I watched a replay of Reke playing the Philippines and I could say he's even at a much better conditioning than his rookie year.

 

[Bricklayer]

IMO, I believe I watch enough of Demarcus to say that he will never be able to duplicate what Dirk does offensively. But that's not saying that Cousins is not a very good offensive player or that he will not be able to reach Dirk's scoring figures. It's just that comparing his game to Dirk is like comparing grapes and eggnogs. Cousins is like grapes. It's already a very good fruit at its young age but it'll make an even more expensive wine if it's age beautifully. But it'll never taste like eggnogs. Dirk is just a very unique player in this league.


On a side note, I can't wait for the lockout to end. I watched a replay of Reke playing the Philippines and I could say he's even at a much better conditioning than his rookie year.

Chandler coudl be at LEAST as effective next to Cousins as Dirk. Dirk, despite some notable improvements, is not a passing player. He creates space, yes. But he has never consistently created anything else for anybody. That passing ability by DeMarcus, or anybody, is the magic sauce that makes defensive roleplayers into effective offensive players. Dirk's offense created some space, but Kidd was the passer who created the shots for Chandler. Cousins can do both at once. The double comes at him, its not like Dirk where its pass, pass, then Chandler scores. Its more like trying to double Webb or Vlade, which is to say disastrous. Or will be as he matures.

 

[bajaden]

IMO, I believe I watch enough of Demarcus to say that he will never be able to duplicate what Dirk does offensively. But that's not saying that Cousins is not a very good offensive player or that he will not be able to reach Dirk's scoring figures. It's just that comparing his game to Dirk is like comparing grapes and eggnogs. Cousins is like grapes. It's already a very good fruit at its young age but it'll make an even more expensive wine if it's age beautifully. But it'll never taste like eggnogs. Dirk is just a very unique player in this league.


On a side note, I can't wait for the lockout to end. I watched a replay of Reke playing the Philippines and I could say he's even at a much better conditioning than his rookie year.

With all due respect, this post makes zero sense. But, using your terminology, I like wine more than eggnog.

 

[bajaden]

Still, the end result of whatever happens in the next CBA will come down to percentages, a certain player will take up a relative amount of space on a teams cap which in turn relates directly to their value.

I really doubt owners are trying to change the system so they can't keep talent. It's all a scheme to get players to take less guaranteed money which they hope will help abolish the possibility of players not living up to their contract. Owners think players get fat, and quit until the next contract year. Sometimes it's true, other times not. Chandler himself has been accused of that very thing a time or two in his career. Owners aren't going to hamstring themselves from keeping their own talent, I'll be shocked if it ends up that way.

I don't pretend to know the personal intentions of every owner in the league. I only know what their proposal is, and I like to stick with what I know to be the facts until new facts present themselves. If the outcome, is what has been proposed by the owners, it doesn't matter what their intentions are, it only matters what the new rules are. And those new rules, as proposed, would prevent the Mavericks from resigning Chandler, and Barea, who some tend to forget is also a unrestricted freeagent.

Now all that could and can change by the time an agreement is signed. And at that time we can have a new discussion. All I know, is that Chandler is an unrestricted freeagent exactly like Dalembert. All unrestricted freeagents are fair game to the highest bidder, and believe me, in the end, money talks! Now if the NBA retains the old rules, then I agree that Cuban will find a way to retain Chandler. But if thats the outcome, then the entire lockout would be a waste of time. Even if they agree on a deal that allows team a 3 or 4 year period to phase into the new system, I doubt that adding 8 to 10 million to you payroll will be part of that deal. It will be more about allowing team to retain what they have in an orderly manner. And at the moment, Dallas doesn't have Chandler. Just as we don't have Dalembert.

But we are the only team in the NBA that has the money under the cap to sign just about anybody we want. Dallas on the other hand is already over the cap without signing anyone. And thats using last seasons cap, which could be significantly higher than the cap they agree on.

 

[KingsCitizen]

I could see a more Vlade/Webber passing between Nene-Cousins pair than a Cousins-Chandler pair. IMO in the Chandler-Cousins it'll Cousins initiating 90% of the passes to Chandler possible 10% share. With a Nene-Cousins it'll probably be 60% Cousin to 40% Nene.

But I don't run the X and O of this team. So it's still up to Westphal at the end of the day!

 

[est.1999]

Wish list:

1. Chandler
2. Dally
3. Neńe

 

[SacTownKid]

I don't pretend to know the personal intentions of every owner in the league. I only know what their proposal is, and I like to stick with what I know to be the facts until new facts present themselves. If the outcome, is what has been proposed by the owners, it doesn't matter what their intentions are, it only matters what the new rules are. And those new rules, as proposed, would prevent the Mavericks from resigning Chandler, and Barea, who some tend to forget is also a unrestricted freeagent.

Now all that could and can change by the time an agreement is signed. And at that time we can have a new discussion. All I know, is that Chandler is an unrestricted freeagent exactly like Dalembert. All unrestricted freeagents are fair game to the highest bidder, and believe me, in the end, money talks! Now if the NBA retains the old rules, then I agree that Cuban will find a way to retain Chandler. But if thats the outcome, then the entire lockout would be a waste of time. Even if they agree on a deal that allows team a 3 or 4 year period to phase into the new system, I doubt that adding 8 to 10 million to you payroll will be part of that deal. It will be more about allowing team to retain what they have in an orderly manner. And at the moment, Dallas doesn't have Chandler. Just as we don't have Dalembert.

But we are the only team in the NBA that has the money under the cap to sign just about anybody we want. Dallas on the other hand is already over the cap without signing anyone. And thats using last seasons cap, which could be significantly higher than the cap they agree on.

The new rules wouldn't go into effect over night as you mention and that makes it highly possible that things do go on as "normal" for at least a period of time. While it would be nice for a team like the Kings, I wouldn't expect to see the Lakers, Celtics, Magic, Heat, Mavs, etc. to have blow their teams up or let their free agents walk as soon as the new CBA is signed. We obviously haven't heard everything but I'm going to use my noggin and assume owners aren't trying to cost them from keeping the talent they have now.

 

[SacTownKid]

I could see a more Vlade/Webber passing between Nene-Cousins pair than a Cousins-Chandler pair. IMO in the Chandler-Cousins it'll Cousins initiating 90% of the passes to Chandler possible 10% share. With a Nene-Cousins it'll probably be 60% Cousin to 40% Nene.

But I don't run the X and O of this team. So it's still up to Westphal at the end of the day!

Westphal was starting to do that as the season wore on and one thing that kind of shocked me about Sam was his passing. He has skills there, westphal should have used him as a passer more instead of a post up guy. Westphal likes to post up both bigs so Nene would fit that model much better than Dalembert or Chandler.

 

[Warhawk]

The new rules wouldn't go into effect over night as you mention and that makes it highly possible that things do go on as "normal" for at least a period of time. While it would be nice for a team like the Kings, I wouldn't expect to see the Lakers, Celtics, Magic, Heat, Mavs, etc. to have blow their teams up or let their free agents walk as soon as the new CBA is signed. We obviously haven't heard everything but I'm going to use my noggin and assume owners aren't trying to cost them from keeping the talent they have now.

Yeah, but until something is agreed to, we really have no idea what will be the outcome. And until that thing is signed by both sides, all this speculation is just pi**ing in the wind....

Man I wish this was over so we wouldn't be reading these same silly threads day after day speculating on all kinds of stuff based on absolutely nothing....

 

[bajaden]

Yeah, but until something is agreed to, we really have no idea what will be the outcome. And until that thing is signed by both sides, all this speculation is just pi**ing in the wind....

Man I wish this was over so we wouldn't be reading these same silly threads day after day speculating on all kinds of stuff based on absolutely nothing....

Ditto!

 

[Kingster]

The new rules wouldn't go into effect over night as you mention and that makes it highly possible that things do go on as "normal" for at least a period of time. While it would be nice for a team like the Kings, I wouldn't expect to see the Lakers, Celtics, Magic, Heat, Mavs, etc. to have blow their teams up or let their free agents walk as soon as the new CBA is signed. We obviously haven't heard everything but I'm going to use my noggin and assume owners aren't trying to cost them from keeping the talent they have now.

This is along the same lines as what I've previously posted on the subject. The underlying assumption is that those teams you mentioned are more powerful in determining the CBA than other teams (like the Kings) which serve to gain from a hard, immediate, disruptive cap. But if one vote of the Miami's of the NBA is weighed no more heavily than the vote of the Kings' of the NBA, I wonder if those that serve to gain from such a cap are greater in number than those who do not? Just a question, not a statement.

 

[Bricklayer]

This is along the same lines as what I've previously posted on the subject. The underlying assumption is that those teams you mentioned are more powerful in determining the CBA than other teams (like the Kings) which serve to gain from a hard, immediate, disruptive cap. But if one vote of the Miami's of the NBA is weighed no more heavily than the vote of the Kings' of the NBA, I wonder if those that serve to gain from such a cap are greater in number than those who do not? Just a question, not a statement.

No team, no matter how hurting financially, is going to vote for something requiring another team to be broken up. That's just fan fantasy. Would be...well beyond rude. It would destroy the league. The league would go to war with itself in the courts. And the player's union would gain incredibly powerful new allies. Whatever the rule is, its basically a guarantee teams will have time to ease into the system.

 

[Warhawk]

No team, no matter how hurting financially, is going to vote for something requiring another team to be broken up. That's just fan fantasy. Would be...well beyond rude. It would destroy the league. The league would go to war with itself in the courts. And the player's union would gain incredibly powerful new allies. Whatever the rule is, its basically a guarantee teams will have time to ease into the system.

True, but we don't have any idea on the mechanisms of bringing high payroll teams "down to earth," revenue sharing prospects, speed at which these things will take place, new salary caps instituted when, or anything else. It's all mad, wild conjecture at this point. And that does nobody any good until we know the framework of what we will have to deal with.

Then we can at least have semi-informed, mad, wild conjecture.

 

[kingsboi]

Getting Nene could be realistic IMO. I don't see Dalembert coming back, hope I'm wrong. Even though Nene clearly doesn't have the shot blocking ability Dally does, he provides us with offense and a big body even though we have that with Big Cuz. A two headed monster never hurt anybody but I think if we don't have some sort of big who can block shots play, we are going to be giving up 110+ points a game and be in a lot of blowouts.

 

[bajaden]

No team, no matter how hurting financially, is going to vote for something requiring another team to be broken up. That's just fan fantasy. Would be...well beyond rude. It would destroy the league. The league would go to war with itself in the courts. And the player's union would gain incredibly powerful new allies. Whatever the rule is, its basically a guarantee teams will have time to ease into the system.

I agree that there will be some sort of phase in period to any CBA that dramaticly changes how business is done. However, if the new CBA comes with a hard cap, of lets just say 59 mil, which was last seasons cap, and the teams have three years to phase into that cap, I doubt that adding salary, when your already over that cap will be allowed. If the cap is 59 mil, and your already at 60 mil, I don't think adding another 8 to 10 mil would look like your trying to phase into the new cap.

But hey, it might just end up being business as usual. Many times when one side takes such a hard stance in the negotiations, its the big chip that they're willing to give up to get something else. So its all pure spectulation right now.

 

[bajaden]

Getting Nene could be realistic IMO. I don't see Dalembert coming back, hope I'm wrong. Even though Nene clearly doesn't have the shot blocking ability Dally does, he provides us with offense and a big body even though we have that with Big Cuz. A two headed monster never hurt anybody but I think if we don't have some sort of big who can block shots play, we are going to be giving up 110+ points a game and be in a lot of blowouts.

While having a great shotblocker is extremely valuable, you don't have to have one to still be a very good defensive team. Here's a little info on the importance of having a good big defender.

http://www.hoopconsultants.com/blog/2011/07/importance-of-activity-for-big-men-on-defense/

 

[Bricklayer]

While having a great shotblocker is extremely valuable, you don't have to have one to still be a very good defensive team. Here's a little info on the importance of having a good big defender.

http://www.hoopconsultants.com/blog/2011/07/importance-of-activity-for-big-men-on-defense/

Frankly big man man to man defense, especially at the ceneter positon, is overrated in today's game. Who are these great scoring centers around the league that are going to light you up for not being a great man defender?

Shotblocking/intimidation has always been the thing. Not only are you likely to be an effective man defender with that threat, but you make every single one of your fellow teammates a better defender too. A guy who is a good man defender is just that. He slows his own man. When he plays a position where there is nobody to slow that heads down the lane toward big whoop pretty quick. But now a shotblocker comes along and he plays EVERYBODY'S man. That's extremely valuable. And basically impossible to do without unless you have a whole stack of all world perimeter guys who just are never going to get beat on their own (why Memphis made its run despite lack of interior defense this season, how the Bulls did it it back in the day etc.)