National Women's Soccer League (NWSL)
- Thread starter QWERTYLICIOUS
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I was pretty furious that the Timbers would not let me defer my season tickets last year, but right as I was feeling ready to come back all the horrible Thorns news broke out.
Looks like ESPN is finally going to air Truth Be Told tomorrow after it had been delayed near the season's start.
Merritt Paulson and the rest of Timbers/Thorns leadership need the full Sarver/Sterling treatment yesterday.
Looks like ESPN is finally going to air Truth Be Told tomorrow after it had been delayed near the season's start.
Merritt Paulson and the rest of Timbers/Thorns leadership need the full Sarver/Sterling treatment yesterday.
QWERTYLICIOUS
Starter
It's crap like this that makes me rethink my goal of eventually becoming a season ticket holder for one of my favorite teams (depending on where I end up geographically speaking). If the ownership group, collectively, is up to no good, I would find it VERY difficult to continue filling their pockets.
You might end up finding me out in the middle of the woods, with no sign of civilization within 500 miles of my residence, as a result...
When I was in London going to the airport my driver asked me about football in Portland, I told him I used to be super involved (fronted a punk rock supporters band even) and got out during covid and then the abuse scandals (also one with a male player beating his wife that the team covered up and then they re-signed him hoping to transfer him before it got out).
He said "that's everywhere mate" to which I could just reply "yeah, but we're supposed to be different".
Anyways, I feel pretty good that I can still support St. Pauli.
He said "that's everywhere mate" to which I could just reply "yeah, but we're supposed to be different".
Anyways, I feel pretty good that I can still support St. Pauli.
The 107IST (the independent supporters trust started by the Timbers Army to promote soccer in Portland, not just the Timbers Army) has cut all ties with the Timbers and Thorns front office and demanded a sale of the team as well as terminate two of the executives named in the Yates report. This is fairly newsworthy because there has been another group calling for accountability and the 107IST has until now urged supporters to remain patient and allow the investigation to finish. They pointed out that their relationship with the front office is essential when it comes to coordinating tifo displays before kickoff, as well as maintaining the large general admission section which the FO would like to consolidate as it can sell reserved tickets at higher prices (~14-16 sections, composing almost the entire area behind the North goal).
Several sponsors have tweeted that they are reconsidering their sponsorships, another tweeted that they support the players and urged action but has since deleted the tweet.
https://www.oregonlive.com/portland...ulson-to-sell-both-teams-fire-executives.html
Several sponsors have tweeted that they are reconsidering their sponsorships, another tweeted that they support the players and urged action but has since deleted the tweet.
https://www.oregonlive.com/portland...ulson-to-sell-both-teams-fire-executives.html
Heads are starting to roll. Long overdue for these two.
QWERTYLICIOUS
Starter
My interest level in a MLS team located outside of San Jose has now officially skyrocketed.
In Portland, Merritt Paulson is trying to get away with only selling the Thorns. If he does it could be crushing. Short term many Timbers fans may switch but long term I think they are still really the only team that truly shared ownership with MLS and had a "one club" approach, which will forever be gone once that happens.
Thorns were fined 1 million dollars but the fine print says their donation to a safety fund counts ... and I guess because MP is selling the club, but the Timbers and Thorns are one club so I don't think it's going to be a true sale it will be like Vince McMahon "leaving WWE" but still owning all the Class B stock.
It's only a matter of time until more European clubs put full time effort into women's soccer and it will probably both kill NWSL and end USWNT dominance for good.
It's only a matter of time until more European clubs put full time effort into women's soccer and it will probably both kill NWSL and end USWNT dominance for good.
QWERTYLICIOUS
Starter
That might also signal the beginning of the end of the world as we currently know it.
I can't even, for one second, imagine a world in which women's soccer is not dominant here in the US. But that's primarily because we have been spoiled to death with their dominance for what has literally felt like forever. But I am with you in that the American dominance of women's soccer is going to be coming to an end here within the next handful of years. The rest of the world is slowly catching up to us.
Eh, I think that the former is way more likely to happen than the latter. Do I think that the US is going to continue to win all the championships? No. Do I think that we're going to arrive at a point any time in the next few decades where the USWNT is at the same level competitively as the USMNT, which is my personal threshold for being able to say that they're no longer dominant? Also no. Like, if the USWNT continue to make it to semifinals and finals, and are winning, like every 3-4 championships, they're still dominant, in my personal record book. There's certainly no other country that's going to be good enough to win, like, three out of five, or something like that, in the immediate future.
The reason why the US men are not competitive on the global stage is because the United States is one of, like, fifteen countries on the planet where the best male athletes don't play soccer. That doesn't really apply to the women's side, and other countries pouring money and resources into their women's national teams isn't really going to change that: we still have the overwhelming majority of the best female athletes on earth and, unlike other countries, we're still funneling many of them towards soccer. The US has dominated virtually every women's team sport there is since Title IX, and that's not changing any time soon.
Women's soccer has benefited tremendously from Title IX but if you have followed the NWSL you may have heard of Olivia Moultre who was 14 when she sued to be admitted to the league despite an open scholarship to Stanford among other top academic universities. I agree with you about "best athletes" but there is more to soccer than just "athlete" which is another reason America isn't so great - we push athletes over skilled players. We push English speakers often over skilled non-English natives. Men's soccer is extremely pay to play in America, especially because Men's soccer has been one of the biggest losers with Title IX.
The Euro structure is get these kids into pro contracts as teens. It's make everyone a Luka Doncic. The big clubs have only just begun doing this with women, but we've seen Olympic in France and Arsenal among other EPL clubs invest heavily into women's and they are poaching USWNT players from the NWSL. If they start regularly signing young women to pro deals we could see a major fall back.
And that doesn't mean USWNT will be as irrelevant as the USMNT - but it means that we'll see 4-6 teams compete for the finals instead of 2-3. It means that we could be a Brazil or a Germany or a France or an Argentina. We could go 4-5 cups without winning the championship. And that's 16-20 years. In Men's football if you win it all every 16-20 years you are a super power - England hasn't won in almost 60. But I think after winning something like 2 out of 3 the fall back could be rather pronounced.
And that's why I didn't dispute the part about the NWSL being at risk, but it's still a huge leap to go from that to saying that the USWNT is in any jeopardy in FIFA play.
Sure, there may be the potential to make everyone a Luka Doncic, but we know that's not really how it works: they only made one Brigit Prinz. They only made one Marta. It's extremely rare for any country to get that kind of generational talent even once, and the US seems to get at least one every generation. And even then, there's no guarantee that that generational talent will end up playing football. Sure, the next Marta that Brazil produces will almost definitely play football, but the Marta of Canada probably won't: the Marta of Canada will probably play hockey, instead. The Marta of Russia might become a footballer, but they're more likely to be a gymnast. The Marta of Australia will either play basketball or rugby. China already had a Marta, her name was Miao Lijie, and the next Marta of China will probably do the same thing that the last one did, if she's not a diver.
And yeah, I made it about the USA's superior athleticism, but that's giving short shrift to their skill level: they're skilled than a mother****er, too, and that's not a difference that's going to be made up quickly.
They could, but they probably won't. The US is the only country that has finished in the Top 3 of every women's World Cup.
But the thing is we've had ~40 year head start but the other countries are now about 10 years into taking it seriously. In another 10 they'll be there because they have superior resources and professional talent coming from the men's ranks.
But we'll be almost 60 by then and so if the women only win 1 out of every 4 or 5 cycles by then, we'll probably be dead and buried before we know what happened.
We had a 40 year head start in men's basketball, and then the rest of the world "caught up." That lasted about ten years. And the biggest difference between women's sports and men's sports with respect to that aspect is the attitude of women athletes: there's not going to be a sustained period of mediocrity in women's sports because, unlike the men, we're nowhere close to a point where the women athletes look down at international competitions with the disdain that the American men do. There is no risk, or at least no immediate risk, of the USWNT ever going, "We can just send anybody over there and win." And until or unless that changes, the USWNT is going to continue to be at or near the top of the heap.
It's not that I'm trying to diminish anything the women have done, I'm just of the belief that other top nations not only were behind but they held their women back. It's not like basketball because US doesn't have the best pro leagues in association football. The Euro clubs are throwing money around because they don't worry about competitive balance the way that US pro leagues do. Of course the high cost of university tuition in the USA and Title IX will filter all the best women into basketball and soccer in a way that college is a pit stop for male athletes, but the Euro money is coming.
I would love nothing more for the other nations to become great and us to still be the queens. I just think that culturally football/soccer in other nations has advantages that once it takes off and those nations fully buy in and invest it is going to move a lot quicker than basketball. Maybe not the way US Men's baseball has become irrelevant either. But perhaps in between?
Okay, but that also applies to every other women's sport. It hasn't made a difference yet.
I think that the disconnect is that you seem to believe that, as soon as other countries start putting resources into their club football programs, that they'll leapfrog the NWSL, and I don't. I think that those other leagues may be a threat to the NWSL in the same sense that international women's basketball leagues are a threat to the WNBA, in terms of offering the best players the most money. But I don't think that any of them are in imminent danger of becoming superior football leagues, overall, because most of the best players are still going to be in the United States. The WNBA salaries don't come close to what the top players can make overseas, and the other leagues still can't touch the WNBA for quality of play. I don't know why you think that's going to be any different for soccer?
The NWSL will for now have the top USWNT talent but if you look at the world rankings most are playing for Lyon, Chelsea and Barcelona now with PSG and Arsenal also making big investments. Now sure - there is a problem that you've got 5 clubs in 3 different leagues, the US is the only place where parity is even thought of as a noble goal in their leagues.
Portland Thorns who despite ownership are still the measuring stick of NWSL finished 4 out of 4 in a mini tournament they hosted losing to Monterrey and Chelsea with Lyon winning the top prize.
:: sighs ::
Okay, fine. Whatever. Let's stipulate this. Say that you're right, for the sake of argument, that still only addresses the first part of your thesis, which I actually already stipulated to... How does any of that negatively impact the National Team? Like, okay, these foreign leagues get all the best American talent to play for them instead of the NWSL, sure. They don't get to keep them for the ****ing World Cup, so now what?
Okay, fine. Whatever. Let's stipulate this. Say that you're right, for the sake of argument, that still only addresses the first part of your thesis, which I actually already stipulated to... How does any of that negatively impact the National Team? Like, okay, these foreign leagues get all the best American talent to play for them instead of the NWSL, sure. They don't get to keep them for the ****ing World Cup, so now what?
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