My thoughts on managenent's plan for trades and currency roster
- Thread starter pshn80
- Start date
Glenn
Hall of Famer
I can't read it because I am blocked by a sign that says I must have a subscription. I am having a very difficult time getting up for this team and as I am full of negative/realistic thoughts, have stayed away from this forum. Attitudes like mine seems to bother some people and I'd hate to ruffle feathers. Unfortunately what may sound negative to others just seems realistic to me. I think we will have a better record by the subtraction of Smart and the addition of Malone. I have never thought differently. I think our summer moves except for Mbah a Moute took several steps backward. Read my sig. I still don't understand why Landry is back. I am far more disappointed with the signing of Landry than the loss of Tyreke. The fact that the loss of one facilitated the signing of the other bothers me a great deal. I would wonder if the advanced stats folks can explain why Landry is with us.
When we saved ourselves a chunk of cash by not signing Tyreke, I saw a wonderful chance to get a defensive big. Instead we got the anti-defensive big in Landry and another 2nd rate player. I quite honestly don't remember who the other player was as I am not paying attention.
I never said we were hopeless and hope I am not being swept up in that all encompassing judgment about people who are not thrilled with what they see.
And most importantly ..... who stole my eyes?
Last edited:
Glenn
Hall of Famer
And now, Landry.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
Tyreke had no position with us. His natural position is 2 where, we, at the time had what we thought as the steal of the draft as well as a talented, immovable Thornton. IF he can't defend or necessarily have the offensive tools to play the 3, and he doesn't see the floor have the bball IQ to play the 1, then there is your answer regardless of his individual talent. IT, PPat, JT, and even potentially Thornton are solid players who do not need to go anywhere (with the possible exception of PPat due to redundancy). Sometimes I feel as if I am in a parallel universe with some Kings fans regarding a player like IT. He is loved on and off the floor, he is veteran leadership in the locker room, he gives every ounce of what he has, this goes for JT to some extent as well
Glenn
Hall of Famer
I'll be back but I am disgruntled over the summer's activities and as TDOS postings tend to be a tad boring anyway, taking time off seemed appropriate. I also was very active in organizing my 50th class reunion from high school and it went real well. I graduated from a small city in Wisconsin so my computer knowledge was needed. I helped reorganize all the records and although I couldn't go, I understand the turn-out was absolutely great with people showing up that never had come to a reunion in the past. I know this hardly has anything to do with the Kings but I was pleased that the efforts of a few of us nerds made a tremendous diference. My next project is to have all the contact info from my 600 classmates on a website accessable via smartphone which is a different deal than one suitable for computer.
Wish me luck. This forum probably works fine with a smartphone but my old class reunion website was far more complex and wouldn't work on a smartphone aka iPhone. Another new project to keep my mind going.
OK, OK I'll return you back to topic.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
I agree that he was a problem but at the worst he was great trade bait. We only have one guy that is good trade bait now. We slid from 2 to 1. That was my point if I wasn't clear.
Apparently not clear enough for all.
Where were you when Evans was 20/5/5 ROY?
Do you have any idea how many players have accomplished that rare fit in the NBA and how much more success they garnered thereafter?
Where were you during those seasons when that rare gem (Evans) got injured and constantly misused by the incompetent coaches we have had?
Watching the Nuggets or perhaps the Warriors' games?
Last edited:
- You go to the 5-year reunion because you haven't let go of high school, yet.
- You go the 10-year reunion because you want to rub your success in all your old rivals' faces.
- You go to the 20-year reunion because you want to troll for hot divorcees, or maybe have one last fling with your high school sweetheart/one last shot at your high school crush.
- You go to the 50-year reunion because you want to see who's still alive.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Only 15% are deceased and some secondary to the Viet Nam War or as they call it in Viet Nam, the American War.
randymoss1881
Starter
We are still talking about Evans?!? That's sad, investing 10 mill in a 2 guard that's not elite is suicide considering we just drafted a SG who is promising.
Watching us lose.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
LeBron could not have won with that crew.
Last edited:
How come we all know Cousins is an elite player? Because he's led us to so many wins? Or is it just because you say so? You still haven't address the flaw in your argument and I highly doubt you can. Evans played only one season more than Cousins here - how do we know that Cousins isn't the problem? Again, I'm just pointing out thr flaw in your argument
Hell, maybe Cousins isn't an elite player. I think that people in the NBA tend to talk about Cuz as one of the top centers in the game with room to grow.....he does have things to work on. I don't recall anyone calling Evans one of the best. And it's just an opinion, but I don't feel like Evans is elite. Call it a flawed argument if you want.
And upon further reflection, then you might as well say the same thing in flawed arguments about people who make posts about the new management, PDA or Vivek and rip them for making statements like calling for their removal already, it's been a failed off-season, these are junior management guys making these decisions, we have gone backwards in talent, these guys don't know what they are doing, there is no plan, etc. Where is the proof of that? It's just opinions.
Maybe it proves out that the forum members being critical of the new regime is right. Until then, I'm sticking with Evans is not an elite player, Cousins is an elite player, and I know for fact we can't win more than we lose. I'd rather us try with Cousins rather than Evans.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I'd rather we tried with both.
And the forum members being critical of the new regime are absolutely right. If a plane containing Kings management went down tomorrow, and this was their only legacy, it might be the single worst legacy left by any of the long stretch of incompetent managers that this franchise has suffered through. Nearly a mirror image of Petrie's pathetic late career work, but without the fading afterglow of long ago competence to soften the blow. These guys are new hires. This IS their career. 3 months ago their grand total number of NBA decisions as the main man was the exact same as mine. 3 months later their grand total number of good NBA decisions is still the exact same as mine. Actually, slight exaggeration, as they again mirrored Petrie's James Johnson stab with a solid little move to get Mbah a Moute.
Now, that said, they can certainly recover. Their resumes are too short to assume a permanent state of incompetence. I have even, generously perhaps, suggested that they may be intentionally imitating incompetent people in order to tank. None of the above justifies the knee jerk defenses of them based on absolutely nothing save perhaps the completely unrelated goodwill that Vivek bought the franchise and kept it in Sacramento. If my great aunt Gertrude bought the franchise and kept it in Sacramento would that prove that she was a basketball genius and have people making excuses for her when she tried to trade with the Dallas Cowboys for a tackle to go with our guards and centers?
And let's not excessively mush them all together. Vivek may turn out to be a Maloofian meddler, but we don't know that, and he still is immune for having saved the franchise. The new coach didn't pull the trigger on any of the moves we made, and talks a very good game that I appreciate (with the note, Smart talked a good game too). He is one of my two sources of hope this season (he and Cousins). That leaves us with Denver's assistant GM. He's young, its possible he may be a figurehead, but you're the GM. This stuff all goes on your tally. Geoff Petrie had 2 GM of the Year awards on his tally, and for similar work was very appropriately mocked for years. Let's just say that PDA's believe in me resume is a tad thinner, and this summer he has done everything that I feared would happen if the Maloofs had never sold the team, almost down to the letter. This will be an ongoing storyline until he balances the books with some special work the other way. Teams don't get bad by being owned by the Maloofs. They get bad by making moves like they were owned by the Maloofs.
Because there are always different ways to view things. Bricklayer is a lawyer. He is very convincing and forceful in his arguments. But that doesn't mean your scale for judgment is necessarily wrong. I don't happen to agree with Brick's assessment for the very simple reason that I don't think we've seen enough from the new front office to make a proper assessment. I believe they have a vision, I believe Malone was speaking truthfully and candidly in his interview with Voisin, and I think it's premature to judge what has happened thus far.
Our franchise was a trainwreck from top to bottom. That doesn't get fixed overnight, no matter how much we may want it or find ways on paper to get it better. It takes time and it takes willing trade partners to do some of the things that need to be done and it was pretty clear that not too many teams were going to do anything out of their way to help the Maloofs. Since the sale took place when it did, there just wasn't enough time to build the relationships necessary to make the killer trades this off-season.
That's just my point of view, and I know others might not agree, but I'm just not going to get too worked up about any of all this at this point in time. I'm looking forward to training camp and opening night and being able to take my granddaughters to another season of games. I have faith that our new front office and ownership wants to build a winning franchise as much as we want them to. To think otherwise makes no sense at all to me.
King Baller
All-Star
In Malone's latest interview he states that changing culture means changing people (Front Office/Coaches/Players). That is what has been done. The Front Office is all new sans Rahim. The Coaches are all new. There are 5 new players. 2 of which will most likely start and 2 others will play significant minutes. IMO this is only a piece of the "Culture Change" Malone is talking about.
On the basketball floor is where the change must take place. That is where it has to happen. IMO the Kings need to play a passing style of Team oriented offense since MJ is not going to run out of the tunnel anytime soon. The defense has to be team oriented and guys are going to have to learn to do a better job than in the past few years.
Getting the players to play Team ball on both ends of the floor is the Coaches job. This new group of coaches has to do their job MUCH better than the group from the last few years.
The Front Office did try for the home run when they went after Olympian Iguodala, it did not work out. They also tried to get another Olympian, the sweet passing PG from Spain who hits threes at a .399 clip, Jose Calderon, That also did not work out. Have they tried to trade for Asik or some other defensive oriented center? I don't know. How about a swap for Danny Granger? Who knows. The truth is I don't think Bird or Morey are giving up solid starters for what the Kings brain trust has to offer. The new Front Office has to do a better job than the Petrie led group did the last few years.
I suspect it is going to be a hell of a ride with lots of ups and downs. Buckle up and hang on
Go Kings,
KB
On the basketball floor is where the change must take place. That is where it has to happen. IMO the Kings need to play a passing style of Team oriented offense since MJ is not going to run out of the tunnel anytime soon. The defense has to be team oriented and guys are going to have to learn to do a better job than in the past few years.
Getting the players to play Team ball on both ends of the floor is the Coaches job. This new group of coaches has to do their job MUCH better than the group from the last few years.
The Front Office did try for the home run when they went after Olympian Iguodala, it did not work out. They also tried to get another Olympian, the sweet passing PG from Spain who hits threes at a .399 clip, Jose Calderon, That also did not work out. Have they tried to trade for Asik or some other defensive oriented center? I don't know. How about a swap for Danny Granger? Who knows. The truth is I don't think Bird or Morey are giving up solid starters for what the Kings brain trust has to offer. The new Front Office has to do a better job than the Petrie led group did the last few years.
I suspect it is going to be a hell of a ride with lots of ups and downs. Buckle up and hang on
Go Kings,
KB
Well said.....there most certainly will be more player personnel changes but the remaining changes will take more time. Malone has been very transparent and accurate with some of these guys. He lists the attributes of Isaiah and ends it with he needs to run the team .....less creating for himself. Jimmer needs to play defense. Thornton needs to play team ball, make the extra pass looking for the great shot and not just a good shot, etc, etc. and like what was said earlier in one post, the proof is in the pudding. I believe, players willing and able, that Malone will deliver......he's already proven his vision of defense with his previous stops in New Orleans, Cleveland and then Golden State in an assistant role. He comes across as no-nonsense. Comments from the players during the Summer League sound like its going to be no-nonsense. Players have to buy in for this to turn around. We need a more balanced roster and all that but I have a feeling that we will get a more consistent effort from the team with less selfish play or hero ball.....make these guys play like professionals first and if they can't, the players will be moving on and not the coach this time.In Malone's latest interview he states that changing culture means changing people (Front Office/Coaches/Players). That is what has been done. The Front Office is all new sans Rahim. The Coaches are all new. There are 5 new players. 2 of which will most likely start and 2 others will play significant minutes. IMO this is only a piece of the "Culture Change" Malone is talking about.
On the basketball floor is where the change must take place. That is where it has to happen. IMO the Kings need to play a passing style of Team oriented offense since MJ is not going to run out of the tunnel anytime soon. The defense has to be team oriented and guys are going to have to learn to do a better job than in the past few years.
Getting the players to play Team ball on both ends of the floor is the Coaches job. This new group of coaches has to do their job MUCH better than the group from the last few years.
The Front Office did try for the home run when they went after Olympian Iguodala, it did not work out. They also tried to get another Olympian, the sweet passing PG from Spain who hits threes at a .399 clip, Jose Calderon, That also did not work out. Have they tried to trade for Asik or some other defensive oriented center? I don't know. How about a swap for Danny Granger? Who knows. The truth is I don't think Bird or Morey are giving up solid starters for what the Kings brain trust has to offer. The new Front Office has to do a better job than the Petrie led group did the last few years.
I suspect it is going to be a hell of a ride with lots of ups and downs. Buckle up and hang on
Go Kings,
KB
Dreadnought
Bench
wiggins 2014
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Malone IS the culture change. As far as turnover goes, we've been pretty pathetic. likely the least turnover of any bottom feeding team in the league., 2 rookies, which everybody gets, 1 retread who was here as part of this very "culture" just 2 years ago. That leaves 1 guy to make a defensive difference, and 1 guy to make an offensive difference, who cost us a batter player to boot (worth noting that the difference makers can't play the other side of the floor anymore than our current personnel). And then surrounded by almost all the same crap we had last year. The worst of it too, as we apparently decided to keep all the minichuckers and washed up vets that made Kings basketball so much scintillating fun to watch last year.
This culture change will be on the coach, and nobody else. If we had retained Keith Smart there is no way you would look at what we did this offseason and say, ooh! Culture change! You might say ooh! Talent bleed! Or ooh! Bad signing! But not ooh! We've fixed things.
Agent23
Starter
That's my hope as well.
sidney
Starter
I've seen this mentioned by a few posters now, but did he really? He had the charisma and the lips were moving but the content of his talk was downright frightening even at the time. Last summer he was excited about finding old globetrotter videos and wanted to implement some of that in his offense. Embarrassing. His comments about role players, his contradictory statements from week to week about players...awful. I'm optimistic about the coaching change and it's overall affect.
sidney
Starter
Re: culture change
It's true that a team has a winning culture or not, a defensive culture or not. Just like a business is profitable or not. However, to discount the positive affect on the team and players due to changing out the Maloofs for Vivek, the new arena plan moving forward instead of just playing in the worst one, not hovering on the salary floor, and the stability of the players knowing they are staying in Sacramento is folly IMO. Positive seeds are being planted.
It's true that a team has a winning culture or not, a defensive culture or not. Just like a business is profitable or not. However, to discount the positive affect on the team and players due to changing out the Maloofs for Vivek, the new arena plan moving forward instead of just playing in the worst one, not hovering on the salary floor, and the stability of the players knowing they are staying in Sacramento is folly IMO. Positive seeds are being planted.
I was going to reply regarding the ownership change as part of the culture change but you said it very well. The new leadership being shown by the owners, the coaches, bringing in veteran players who can help turn around the selfish me first culture that existed. Eventually, more of the player personnel will get turned over. Good things are happening.
King Baller
All-Star
I have to agree the new ownership and all it provides is the catalyst for the change in culture. The stability of knowing the Team is staying in Sacto. Knowing the owner will back up the Coaches decisions because, hey, he hired the guy
You need to go back to when he was first hired. He said he was a defense first guy, that the team played selfishly and he was going to instill a team first family concept.
Chubbs
Starter
It's a good question. Why are we building around dmc? And if we are, why are we doing it so poorly?
Fact is, they didn't win with Evans and dmc. They're not going to win with only dmc. This is again a 30 win team. With other teams tanking, maybe we get 35 wins. But no playoffs, and a pick at the end of the lottery. It's no mans land.
Evans was not an elite player. He was an elite talent. There's a huge difference.
