More minutes for Casspi (split from Cavs game thread)

[TheJewishKing]

Really can't understand why coach Joerger won't play more minutes, no disrespect to Matt Barnes but he is not justifying the minutes he is being given, missing shots consistently, doesn't pass the ball as good as he did earlier in the season and doesn't rebound the ball as good as he did before.

Casspi on the other hand, he is looking to produce the most he can in the poor minutes he is given, like in the previous game against Detroit where he grabbed 10 rebounds in like 16 minutes, that's was an impressive input for him.

I get that Joerger trusts Barnes since he was playing under him last year in Memphis, but the coach needs to be objective, Casspi is currently better than Barnes, younger and more effective than him, why not switch the minutes between both of them, I can't figure out what happens inside Joerger head's but it is really frustrating to say the least.

 

[Tetsujin]

Really can't understand why coach Joerger won't play more minutes, no disrespect to Matt Barnes but he is not justifying the minutes he is being given, missing shots consistently, doesn't pass the ball as good as he did earlier in the season and doesn't rebound the ball as good as he did before.

Casspi on the other hand, he is looking to produce the most he can in the poor minutes he is given, like in the previous game against Detroit where he grabbed 10 rebounds in like 16 minutes, that's was an impressive input for him.

I get that Joerger trusts Barnes since he was playing under him last year in Memphis, but the coach needs to be objective, Casspi is currently better than Barnes, younger and more effective than him, why not switch the minutes between both of them, I can't figure out what happens inside Joerger head's but it is really frustrating to say the least.

To be fair, Joerger isn't the only one who needs to be objective.

Casspi's rebounding has been helpful, yes. But he, like both of the other small forwards in front of him, can be prone to mindnumbingly awful bouts of bad basketball. It's also hard for Joerger to play Casspi in crunch time because Omri inexplicably shoots free throws like Deandre Jordan.

Is he playing better than Barnes? Yeah, probably. But not by a huge margin. And factoring all those illness-related absences in, Omri's playing 18 minutes a game, which is only one less than Kosta Koufos.

Per-36, both Omri and Barnes are being outproduced by such stalwarts as Ben McLemore and Willie Caulie-Stein so let's not pretend that we've got some super producers on our hands here.

 

[Ron]

Per-36, both Omri and Barnes are being outproduced by such stalwarts as Ben McLemore and Willie Caulie-Stein so let's not pretend that we've got some super producers on our hands here.

I'm not sure it's intentional, but you are seriously missing the point (Of the basketball game! ) here...

You seem to conclude that Barnes, Casspi and Temple (Yes, he's on your list too)
are being outproduced by B-Mac and WCS, because they score less points per 36 minutes.
(Pts per 36: WCS=13.9 > BMac=12.7 > Omri=11.7 > Temple=10.6 > Barnes=10.5)
IS THAT WHAT YOU MEANT?

Is that really the definition of production?

If so - than the best way to prove productivity in you book would be taking a load of shots instead of
passing the ball to DMC in the paint for a good look...

In some lineups, the best production for a role player (even a great one) may not be trying to score.

What's production then?

First, there are stats meant to estimate the impact of each player accross all types of game actions and contributions.
One such measure is the Player Impact Estimate (PIE).
Well, guess what? Casspi's (9.4), Temple's (7.4) and Barnes' (7.0) PIE scores all outproduce WCS' (6.1) and McLemore's (4.6)...

But the superior production, even by Barnes, and certainly by Temple & Casspi,
is consistent on almost ANY specific measures too!
(All except points scored, which was your stat of choice to compare... ):

• Temple Barnes & Casspi all outproduce the mentioned duo big-time on any D measure.
• Temple Barnes & Casspi all outproduce the other two in Asst per 36
• Barnes & Casspi even outproduce 7-foot Willie in Rebs per 36!! (Temple > BMac)
• Temple & Casspi outproduce both Ben and Willie in TOs per 36 (boneheaded Omri?)
• Temple & Casspi also outproduce BMac in FG% (he's just taking too many shots...)

• But most importantly - Temple & Casspi outproduce ANY King not named Demarcus or Rudy,
• in what really matters most: making the TEAM score more points and allow less opponent's points (+/-) per 36...
• 

 

[Kingsfan23]

To be fair, Joerger isn't the only one who needs to be objective.

Casspi's rebounding has been helpful, yes. But he, like both of the other small forwards in front of him, can be prone to mindnumbingly awful bouts of bad basketball. It's also hard for Joerger to play Casspi in crunch time because Omri inexplicably shoots free throws like Deandre Jordan.

Is he playing better than Barnes? Yeah, probably. But not by a huge margin. And factoring all those illness-related absences in, Omri's playing 18 minutes a game, which is only one less than Kosta Koufos.

Per-36, both Omri and Barnes are being outproduced by such stalwarts as Ben McLemore and Willie Caulie-Stein so let's not pretend that we've got some super producers on our hands here.

Barnes is done, Omri is still in his 20s and doesn't have his confidence. He can actually be a future piece. He played well last year when he did have his confidence

 

[The Effort Police]

And there's our fan-favorite love fest again. Why is it that our fan favorites are always the role players?

Yes, he's playing better than Barnes. No, it's not something to lose sleep over because he's not playing THAT much better.

Unrelated, but we should've taken the Casspi-Tyler Johnson swap. I remember seeing SactownRoyalty melting down over it, lamenting how the organization is a dumpster fire and how they'd give up if it happened. Over Omri Freakin' Casspi. Coincidentally, I also saw them jump over a DMC trade for Okafor (lol), a pick, and the swaps back on the same page. I don't understand this fanbase sometimes.

 

[Ron]

Barnes is done, Omri is still in his 20s and doesn't have his confidence. He can actually be a future piece. He played well last year when he did have his confidence

I think you're right.
But there's another point to be made here, IMHO:
Omri seems to always sort of "fill the gaps" (or void).
In my experience he somehow tends to give what the team needs/ lacks.

Let me explain what I mean:

When Omri was needed as the main scorer on the team (no DMC, Rudy, or DC)
at the end of the season 2 years ago - he scored 20pts per game ON AVERAGE in that stretch.
On that same year (2014/5) he was also:

- Less of a rebounder per 36 (as we had DMC, JT, Reggie, Landry & D-Will for that),
- Less of a shooter, both inside (as we had other slashers in D-Will, Gay etc.)

and out (something that Stauskas & BMac were supposed to bring).​

- A more frequent assister per 36 than ever before (we didn't have good passing guards).​

Then, last year (2015/6), when we had the best assister on the league,
but no go-to 3pt shooter, and less veteran length and muscles, Casspi:

- Dropped his assist rates, and
- Picked up his 3pt attempts, driving attempts, and rebounding...​

Then THIS season (2016/7) , when Cuz turned into a major consistent 3pt threat,
and we also brought some 3pt fire-power (AA & Tolliver), and on the other hand
the Kings became one of the worst rebounding teams in the NBA, then Casspi:

- Dropped his 3pt attempts significantly.
- Is suddenly our best (non-7-footer) rebounder.
- Is back into dishing, (now that Rondo is gone).
- He even cut down drastically on his TOs per 36 this year,

ever since Joerger asked him to work on that.
(He's among the lowest on the team in TOs)​

Overall, it just seems like Casspi is capable of changing his game to fit
the team's need and the coach's wishes. (Which is not a bad thing)

If I'm right about that, then the popular notion that Omri was better cut-out
for George Karl's messy high-paced style - may not be a valid claim after all.
Perhaps he just worked hard on his fit to that system until he excelled in it.

Because somehow he seems to do pretty well (stat-wise!) in Joerger's D-focused,
slow-paced, hard-nosed, low-TO system as well, whenever he is given court time.
(It may not seem so if you only look at his own scoring per 36, but he DOES
excel as a contributor, and is BY FAR the best-King-to-go-along-with-DMC*)

* See the detailed stat-post about What Works Well With Boogie, in the "Rebuilding around Cousins" thread.

 

[arusinov]

To be fair, Joerger isn't the only one who needs to be objective.

Casspi's rebounding has been helpful, yes. But he, like both of the other small forwards in front of him, can be prone to mindnumbingly awful bouts of bad basketball. It's also hard for Joerger to play Casspi in crunch time because Omri inexplicably shoots free throws like Deandre Jordan.

Is he playing better than Barnes? Yeah, probably. But not by a huge margin. And factoring all those illness-related absences in, Omri's playing 18 minutes a game, which is only one less than Kosta Koufos.

Per-36, both Omri and Barnes are being outproduced by such stalwarts as Ben McLemore and Willie Caulie-Stein so let's not pretend that we've got some super producers on our hands here.

As israeli I can't claim I'm really objective... but still I feel I have to answer and explain frustration with Casspi's situation.


First, let's just look at statistics...

I don't know in what world somebody with stats line (per 36 min)

12.7 pts on 40.1% shooting, 2.9 reb, 1.4 ast with 1.7 tov (McLemore)

is "outproducing" player with line

11.7 pts on 45.3% shooting, 8.2 reb, 2.4 ast with 1.5 tov (Casspi)


But it's not even start of real comparison. There're reasons why Casspi has lowest pts per 36 min in his career (and last year he had 15.6...).

Being jerked in and out rotation hurts any player production but especially of player like Casspi - which is very good role-player capable of filling quite wide range of "roles"... but in many cases he seems to be just thrown to the game without much thought or role's definition.

Then, even with all above Casspi succeeded to give somehow reasonable production trying to adopt to the new coach priorities - he rebounds, at least tries hard on defense and reduced number of turnovers to almost zero (which is one of reasons for relatively small pts per 36 - Casspi avoids anything which can cause turnovers...)


But nothing helps, the coach still prefers 36 years old shooting 38% and bricking unlimited number of 3pt shots at 32% (Barnes)... or even player which is terrible on defense, can't rebound, not moving ball and only contributes is scoring, which this year also not good - 7.4 ppg on 43.5% shooting (Afflalo)


Nothing could be done here... Coaches sometimes have blind spots, the best for both sides is to part ways with trade which would bring to Sacramento something useful from the current coaching staff view...


And considering Casspi... yes, he's not starter in NBA, but those calling him "deep bencher" are completely wrong. Casspi is useful role-player which can crack main rotation in almost every NBA team. Here the lack of luck (with this illness) and the coach attitude deplored him from any chance to prove his worth.

 

[arusinov]

And there's our fan-favorite love fest again. Why is it that our fan favorites are always the role players?

Yes, he's playing better than Barnes. No, it's not something to lose sleep over because he's not playing THAT much better.

Unrelated, but we should've taken the Casspi-Tyler Johnson swap. I remember seeing SactownRoyalty melting down over it, lamenting how the organization is a dumpster fire and how they'd give up if it happened. Over Omri Freakin' Casspi. Coincidentally, I also saw them jump over a DMC trade for Okafor (lol), a pick, and the swaps back on the same page. I don't understand this fanbase sometimes.

Fan favorites are almost always role-players - because people like underdog stories... And when someone becomes a big star and supposed to succeed - he's losing this status (look at Steph Curry). But Casspi is not somebody like Jon Brockman (in 2009 /10 Kings) or Luke Haragody (in Cleveland 2011/12). Omri is good NBA role-player which can be useful rotation player in almost every NBA team.


Now considering Tyler Johnson trade… So, people are tending to forget the context totally:


First, “the fan-base” still hoped to reach playoffs… Casspi had best year in his career and Tyler Johnson… was injured and out for the whole critical “making playoffs” period


Second, while Johnson is young and there was some feeling that Johnson can actually grow up to be really good NBA player… he also was just not-drafted SG having first really good year in NBA (which in many such cases turns to be the only good year).


Third… The current Kings coaching staff did really good job diminishing Casspi’s abilities: “if he can’t get into rotation of this not good team he’s certainly not good player”. No, maybe not. Coach just doesn’t want to play him.

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

Yeah I'm tired of seeing Barnes try to pull off a pass only a Harlem Globetrotter could pull off.

 

[Ron]

And there's our fan-favorite love fest again. Why is it that our fan favorites are always the role players?

Yes, he's playing better than Barnes. No, it's not something to lose sleep over because he's not playing THAT much better.

Unrelated, but we should've taken the Casspi-Tyler Johnson swap. I remember seeing SactownRoyalty melting down over it, lamenting how the organization is a dumpster fire and how they'd give up if it happened. Over Omri Freakin' Casspi. Coincidentally, I also saw them jump over a DMC trade for Okafor (lol), a pick, and the swaps back on the same page. I don't understand this fanbase sometimes.

I think the current fan-favorite is Garret Temple, but I do confess to having a soft-spot for home-boy Omri...

 

[chief bromden]

I like Omri's hustle and all, but man can he do anything on the O-end besides catch the ball and dribble into traffic with no eye to pass?

I see shadows in my mind of that Warriors game from last season where he went toe to toe with Steph for the first half. Maybe it was inception.

 

[arusinov]

I like Omri's hustle and all, but man can he do anything on the O-end besides catch the ball and dribble into traffic with no eye to pass?

And when last time Casspi did it? I think after being reinserted to the rotation (and since than even after being jerked out of it once again he's probably the least turnover prone Kings' player (s0mething like 1.1 tov per 36 minutes)

 

[Lopes]

And when last time Casspi did it? I think after being reinserted to the rotation (and since than even after being jerked out of it once again he's probably the least turnover prone Kings' player (s0mething like 1.1 tov per 36 minutes)

I'd play casspi just for the fact that he is playing for his next contract and has motivation. Barnes looks content with where the team is and his recent contract

 

[206Fan]

I think Joerger doing Casspi a disservice. Jerked him around throughout the entire year with no consistent role. What's the justification in giving Tolliver 30mins? On defense, Tolliver is still undersized. He can't block shots, and he can't rebound. What about the justification of Matt Barnes?

Joerger benching Casspi for 3 games, puts him in a game out of nowhere, then expects him to excel, if he doesn't, he'll yank him out immediately? Sounds like the Ben/Willie treatment.

Coach has a weird thing for vet players.

 

[King Baller]

I am also mystified by Omri's lack of playing time after his success last season. Joerger obviously sees something about Omri in practice and in games that most of us Fans are not seeing. Whoever thought the Kings depth would cause problems with playing time disputes.

As far as the last game I think the defensive match up on Lebron was best served with Rudy and Matt checking The King.