Minutes for Williams and Hawes?

[gunks]

I'm just a bit troubled after the iffy (at best) signing of Mikki Moore...And now there's still those rumors floating around of a Bibby to Cavs deal with GP wanting Gooden..


If Petrie keeps gathering up these vets and no defense playin jumpshooting bigs...And if he cant unload KT, SAR, and/or Miller (and there's no reason to think those guys CAN be unloaded)...Where's that put Williams and Hawes on the depth chart? 12th and 13th man?

I thought we were rebuilding and lookin at youth...I want minutes for our shotblocking, rebound grabbing Williams and for our post prodigy Hawes.


The last thing I want to see is Williams get no minutes here...Sign with some other team next season and put up 8 boards and 2 blocks a game in bench minutes somewhere...I'm still getting over the heartbreak of Gerald Wallace doing so good somewhere else!

 

[Hella916]

Welll from the sounds of it...Millier is over weight( according to theus)...Sooo I think his minutes will be decreased BIG time due to how well Justin and spencer did in the summer league... Reef had surgery this summer on his knee, and is suppost to ok and ready by the start of training camp, but who knows... And kenny thomas, well... is kenny thomas LOL ... I dont think anyone in the kings mangement likes Kennys game or his contract anyway... Why dont the Kings buyout Kennys HORRIBLE contract????? Can anyone explain this to me??? Cause I cant figure it out for the life of me......

 

[VF21]

Welll from the sounds of it...Millier is over weight( according to theus)...Sooo I think his minutes will be decreased BIG time due to how well Justin and spencer did in the summer league... Reef had surgery this summer on his knee, and is suppost to ok and ready by the start of training camp, but who knows... And kenny thomas, well... is kenny thomas LOL ... I dont think anyone in the kings mangement likes Kennys game or his contract anyway... Why dont the Kings buyout Kennys HORRIBLE contract????? Can anyone explain this to me??? Cause I cant figure it out for the life of me......

From what's been said, Coach Theus expects Brad to report for camp in shape. As far as SAR goes, his knee procedure was reportedly minor in nature and should be completely healed.

Kenny Thomas is another story. The Kings are not, however, going to buy him out unless they have absolutely no other alternative. It's easy to talk about but none of us could write a check like that.

Hawes and Williams are young. If Theus is going to do what he's saying he plans to do, they'll get minutes. But they aren't going to be in the starting five right away.

 

[Bricklayer]

The issue remains now that we have compeltley clogged our frontcourt once again, if we give Justin and Hawes the minutes (which we should), then we compeltely devalue whatever is left of the value of Kenny and Shareef and Brad, and even Mikki, and all those horrible contracts (a good 40% of our salary cap) become unmoveable. Then you are just stuck wiht those guys for freaking forever. 3 more years, year after year of it. chewing up your entire cap, pinning you so you can't get free agents.

and that's the problem with a buyout too. Something of which in Kenny's case I would otherwise be in favor -- but if you do, then that contract, at the buyout amount, counts against your cap year after year and you have absolutely no way to make it go away. So again, your capspace is eaten up, there is never room to score a FA (especially not while the GM continues to mindlessly pile up MLE guys year after year).

Its a real mess. We need those guys gone so we can play the kids and get cap room. But if we play the kids too soon over those players, then they will never be gone and we have to choke on them until next decade.

 

[bajaden]

The issue remains now that we have compeltley clogged our frontcourt once again, if we give Justin and Hawes the minutes (which we should), then we compeltely devalue whatever is left of the value of Kenny and Shareef and Brad, and even Mikki, and all those horrible contracts (a good 40% of our salary cap) become unmoveable. Then you are just stuck wiht those guys for freaking forever. 3 more years, year after year of it. chewing up your entire cap, pinning you so you can't get free agents.

and that's the problem with a buyout too. Something of which in Kenny's case I would otherwise be in favor -- but if you do, then that contract, at the buyout amount, counts against your cap year after year and you have absolutely no way to make it go away. So again, your capspace is eaten up, there is never room to score a FA (especially not while the GM continues to mindlessly pile up MLE guys year after year).

Its a real mess. We need those guys gone so we can play the kids and get cap room. But if we play the kids too soon over those players, then they will never be gone and we have to choke on them until next decade.

So, if I understand you completely, lets say the Kings buy out KT for 15 mil, just to throw a number out there. You mean that 15 mil will go against our cap for the next three years? That doesn't sound right. What would be the point of buying him out. Just release him and pay the regular salary.

As far as trading some of our bigs. The only one that has trade value to me is Shareef. Maybe Miller, if he comes back healthy and in shape and plays well, you might be able to move him before the trading deadline.

 

[Miles and Miles]

No we can hide Kenny, Brad, and SAR and keep them off the court. Then people will remember the good games and not the bad ones and then "steal" them away. Much like the Jason Hart situation . Have Muss give Theus a call so he can tell him how he did it.

 

[VF21]

Buyout clarification:

60. How do buy-outs affect a team's salary cap?

The agreed-upon buy-out amount (see question number 59) is included in the team salary instead of the salary called for in the contract. If the player had more than one season left on his contract, then the buy-out money is distributed among those seasons in proportion to the original salary. For example, say a player had three seasons remaining on his contract, with salaries of $10 million, $11 million and $12 million. The player and team agree to a buyout of $15 million. The $15 million is therefore charged to the team salary over the three seasons. Since the original contract had $33 million left to be paid, and $10 million is 30.3% of $33 million, 30.3% of the $15 million buyout, or $4.545 million, is included in the team salary in the first season following the buyout. Likewise, 33.33% of $15 million, or $5 million, is included in the team salary in the second season, and 36.36% of $15 million, or $5.455 million, is included in the team salary in the third season.

The distribution of the buy-out money is a matter of individual negotiation. Changing the number of years in which the money is paid does not change the number of years in which the team's team salary is charged. In the above example in which the player's contract is bought out with three seasons remaining, the buyout amount is always charged to the team salary over three seasons. It does not matter if the player is actually paid in a lump sum or over 20 years (a spread provision).

From, of course: http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#60

 

[Kingster]

From what's been said, Coach Theus expects Brad to report for camp in shape. As far as SAR goes, his knee procedure was reportedly minor in nature and should be completely healed.

Kenny Thomas is another story. The Kings are not, however, going to buy him out unless they have absolutely no other alternative. It's easy to talk about but none of us could write a check like that.

Hawes and Williams are young. If Theus is going to do what he's saying he plans to do, they'll get minutes. But they aren't going to be in the starting five right away.

If we have the same lineup as we do now, I think Theus does the virtually the same thing Muss did last year - play the vets to win now in order to keep his job. The only alternative scenario that I could see would have Hawes getting decent minutes because he absolutely WOWED Theus in practice and in preseason. I doubt it though because Miki at 32 is probably better than Hawes at 19. The lineup we have now is positively schitzophrenic. It's guaranteed to provide lots of friction between coach and players and players and players. I seriously think this team could be better off deleting 3 players from this lineup and getting nothing in return. Addition by subtraction.

 

[VF21]

I don't think we'll be keeping the same lineup. And Theus isn't Musselman. The Maloofs and Petrie both are saying we're rebuilding. I think people are making way too many assumptions based on prior deeds.

Reggie Theus is everything Eric Musselman wasn't. I think he's going to give the kids an opportunity to grow and I strongly suspect, as I just mentioned in the Moore thread, that by signing Mikki we're getting an interim vet to play at the 4 while the kids develop.

 

[Bricklayer]

So, if I understand you completely, lets say the Kings buy out KT for 15 mil, just to throw a number out there. You mean that 15 mil will go against our cap for the next three years? That doesn't sound right. What would be the point of buying him out. Just release him and pay the regular salary.

The point of buying them out is always saving a little money. Not huge money. But you might be able to shave a million or two off per year. So instead of paying Kenyn $7mil, $8mil, $8mil ($23mil total) and keeping him on the roster, you might be able to convince him to a buyout for let's say $18mil total, which gets divided by the three remaining years and comes out to $6mil, $6mil, $6mil (or some such), and Kenny does it thinking he can make the money back by signing a new contract elsewhere. In any case that's the advantage, minor though it might be. Also frees up a roster spot of course, as well as the glowering cloud over in the corner of the locker room. But once you do it, you are completely stuck with those $6mil ayear hits -- no way at all to get rid of them.

 

[uolj]

Also frees up a roster spot of course

I think this would be the biggest reason for doing it. See Francis or Webber.

Edit: Oops... I totally misread that. I don't think the roster spot matters much. The point of buying him out would be to free up minutes for young kids, as Portland and Philadelphie did.

 

[bajaden]

The point of buying them out is always saving a little money. Not huge money. But you might be able to shave a million or two off per year. So instead of paying Kenyn $7mil, $8mil, $8mil ($23mil total) and keeping him on the roster, you might be able to convince him to a buyout for let's say $18mil total, which gets divided by the three remaining years and comes out to $6mil, $6mil, $6mil (or some such), and Kenny does it thinking he can make the money back by signing a new contract elsewhere. In any case that's the advantage, minor though it might be. Also frees up a roster spot of course, as well as the glowering cloud over in the corner of the locker room. But once you do it, you are completely stuck with those $6mil ayear hits -- no way at all to get rid of them.

Got ya.. So obviosly you would want to buy him out for the lowest amount possible, which in KT's case, the incentive might be playing time on another team. Probably not likely, but I'd love to see him gone.

 

[Kingster]

I don't think we'll be keeping the same lineup. And Theus isn't Musselman. The Maloofs and Petrie both are saying we're rebuilding. I think people are making way too many assumptions based on prior deeds.

Reggie Theus is everything Eric Musselman wasn't. I think he's going to give the kids an opportunity to grow and I strongly suspect, as I just mentioned in the Moore thread, that by signing Mikki we're getting an interim vet to play at the 4 while the kids develop.

At this point, I'm just watching what they do, not what they say. Half the time they say one thing, half the other. So far they've drafted Hawes (19) and signed Miki (32). That totally fits. One guy is coming in; the other guy is on his way out. One guy is for rebuilding; the other is for getting the 8th playoff spot. One guy in the "win now" category - Miki - taking minutes from the rebuilding group of Hawes and Williams. They talked about trading Artest and Bibby. Now the talk is of keeping Artest. They talked of getting more athletic, and they got Hawes (and no, I'm not complaining about Hawes). They talked about clearing cap space and they got Miki, who doesn't clear anything until year 3. I see a totally schizo GM right now whose reflection is a totally schitzo team. Sure, it can change. Thank goodness.

As for Reggie, he's talking about getting into the playoffs, as you would expect from a coach. But once he has a losing streak of 7 or 8 games under his belt, then we'll see how committed he is to playing the young guys. Unless there is MUCH more clear and consistent action, as well as language coming out the front office on rebuilding, I don't see anything other that what I see in front of me - an ambivalent, schitzo, conflict latent group of individuals.

 

[gunks]

The issue remains now that we have compeltley clogged our frontcourt once again, if we give Justin and Hawes the minutes (which we should), then we compeltely devalue whatever is left of the value of Kenny and Shareef and Brad, and even Mikki, and all those horrible contracts (a good 40% of our salary cap) become unmoveable. Then you are just stuck wiht those guys for freaking forever. 3 more years, year after year of it. chewing up your entire cap, pinning you so you can't get free agents.

and that's the problem with a buyout too. Something of which in Kenny's case I would otherwise be in favor -- but if you do, then that contract, at the buyout amount, counts against your cap year after year and you have absolutely no way to make it go away. So again, your capspace is eaten up, there is never room to score a FA (especially not while the GM continues to mindlessly pile up MLE guys year after year).

Its a real mess. We need those guys gone so we can play the kids and get cap room. But if we play the kids too soon over those players, then they will never be gone and we have to choke on them until next decade.

But see, there you're making the assumption that those guys can be traded in the first place

I can see Petrie moving SAR...He aint the player he used to be, but his contract isnt that rediculous. I just dont see any GMs lining up to take on KT or Miller's bloated contracts and poor play.

Regardless...I'm gonna be pretty disappointed in this offseason if at least 2 of those vet bigs arnt gone.