Mike Brown vs Rick Adelman

[PorchSurfin]

To preface this, I'm not trying to start a debate as to which coach is better. I was a big Adelman supporter and I felt like he got a raw deal at the end from the Maloofs, which signaled the beginning of the end for the best team the Sacramento portion of the franchise ever had.

My discussion point here is more along the lines of whether Mike Brown will end up being the winning coach in the Sacramento Era.

I feel like if the Kings can resign Sabonis then this current iteration (Brown, Fox, Sabonis, Murray, and hopefully Monk/Huerter/Mitchell/Lyles) should have a good 5-6 year run ahead of themselves, injuries withstanding. Will Mike be able to surpass Rick in total wins as the Sacramento Kings head coach? Does Brown have a chance to be the favorite coach in Kings fans lore when all is said and done?

Personally, I think he has a real chance to be that guy. I think he is able to reach his players on a level Adelman couldn't. Rick had a great staff, did an excellent job managing egos, and was a wizard (with the help of Coachie) in establishing an offense that changed the NBA landscape.

Brown, however, seems to get the most out of his players and is able to instill a confidence in them they never really knew they had (see Trey Lyles). I can see multiple 50 win seasons in the future for this fairly young yet almost veteran team.

Thoughts?

 

[Chupacabra]

Brown will probably be the favorite coach; he ended the streak! Will he pass Adelman as the most winningest? He's going to have to be around longer than 6 years. Adelman gave us an 8-year playoff run, with multiple seasons of 55+ wins. Those are tough odds to bet on.

 

[kingsboi]

I thought Malone was going to be here long term and that didn't come to be. Brown has to make up a whole lot of years to catch Rick but considering that the team is as young and inexperienced and while starting a rookie, it's a promising trajectory. A reporter mentioned yesterday in the post game conference how he makes every player feel that they can be much better and that in itself is something not every coach can persuade a player to believe but he has that charisma, mellow approach that works. Him getting angry after a win is only a bonus which means he has higher standards than a regular season win and that is why I want Mike here for the long term.

 

[See_Hanks]

It all depends.. I am an Adelman homer though. I think as long as our players buy into his philosophy, and we win, he can be a King until he wants to retire.

As long as we keep trading for, signing and drafting players that aren't a cancer in the locker room then he should be here as long as he would like.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

I said it before and I'll say it again. We're not even through 1 complete season with Mike Brown as HC. But in my eyes he's already won the title of best HC since Rick Adelman.

Can he supplant Adelman as the best HC in the SAC era? Time will well. But he's definitely got off to a tremendous start.

 

[mrlaze]

One thing Aldeman didn't or couldn't do was developed young talent. He like vets that did what they were told. Adleman kept a pretty tight 8-9 man rotation. I get it they were going for a ring, not trying to develope Crash and K-mart.

I liked Rick's business attitude, but I also like Browns easy going attitude(at least as presented to us)

I think Brown can pass Adelman in wins.

 

[ESP47]

One thing Aldeman didn't or couldn't do was developed young talent. He like vets that did what they were told. Adleman kept a pretty right 8-9 man rotation. I get it they were going for a ring, not trying to develope Crash and K-mart.

I liked Rick's business attitude, but I also like Browns easy going attitude(at least as presented to us)

I think Brown can pass Adelman in wins.

I thought he did a good job with Peja, Hedo, JWill, Songalia and even KMart in the short time he had him. Only guy I can think of that he really missed out on was Wallace but it's hard to blame him for that with the team being a championship contender when he was drafted.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I think there is a chance that Brown has already got a leg up on building the championship culture and if he brings it all home then he will be everyone's all time fave.

But this is way too early, and it only takes one bad break (or one lucky break) to forever alter history.

 

[Singhisking]

Unless Vivek happens! I mean, Malone and Joerger were also good coaches but got Viveked, along with us fans.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Joerger got himself fired. Whether you believe his last season was smoke and mirrors, he lost the team, or he threw games on purpose, it's hard to come to any conclusion that he was anything but insubordinate in his final months. Leaking to the media, declaring war on the franchise's #2 draft pick (and the FO in the process), dude burnt down every bridge in Sacramento except for the Tower.

Malone was an unfortunate case of Vivek trusting the bad basketball people over the smart ones.

 

[SLAB]

Unless Vivek happens! I mean, Malone and Joerger were also good coaches but got Viveked, along with us fans.

Joerger was not.

 

[206Fan]

Joerger got himself fired. Whether you believe his last season was smoke and mirrors, he lost the team, or he threw games on purpose, it's hard to come to any conclusion that he was anything but insubordinate in his final months. Leaking to the media, declaring war on the franchise's #2 draft pick (and the FO in the process), dude burnt down every bridge in Sacramento except for the Tower.

Malone was an unfortunate case of Vivek trusting the bad basketball people over the smart ones.

Joerger was not.

I don't see how we can give our FO the benefit of the doubt over Dave Joerger. Joerger had the Kings playing competent basketball again.. the best in a decade. Our FO was horrific with Brandon Williams having way too much sway, and Vlade being Vlade. Bagley was a terrible player and terrible #2 overall pick. It sounds like Brandon Williams was trying to force Joerger to play Bagley more... an assistant GM trying to tell a head coach how to do his job. How well would this go over for any other coach in the league? And it was reported that Brandon Williams was the one who started leaking things to the media.

It was a very toxic situation that started with our FO, not Joerger. We've blamed almost every single coach for being "toxic" Westphal, Karl, Joerger, and Walton. Reminds me of that saying, "if everyone around you is the butthead, then maybe you're the butthead."

I really don't care if the Joerger threw the last game to get 40 wins. What the hell was 40 wins going to give us anyways? A nice round number? A moral victory in a STILL losing season? Joerger was gone whether or not we won that game. It probably was a big FU to the FO, but you can't say they didn't deserve it. Vlade didn't do nearly enough to manage the relationships and situation behind the scene, and that's on him.

Joerger was dealt with an impossible situation here and almost turned the ship around. He's a good coach. A bad coach is Luke Walton. He had Joerger's same exact roster and provided worse results.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I don't see how we can give our FO the benefit of the doubt over Dave Joerger. Joerger had the Kings playing competent basketball again.. the best in a decade. Our FO was horrific with Brandon Williams having way too much sway, and Vlade being Vlade. Bagley was a terrible player and terrible #2 overall pick. It sounds like Brandon Williams was trying to force Joerger to play Bagley more... an assistant GM trying to tell a head coach how to do his job. How well would this go over for any other coach in the league? And it was reported that Brandon Williams was the one who started leaking things to the media.

It was a very toxic situation that started with our FO, not Joerger. We've blamed almost every single coach for being "toxic" Westphal, Karl, Joerger, and Walton. Reminds me of that saying, "if everyone around you is the butthead, then maybe you're the butthead."

I really don't care if the Joerger threw the last game to get 40 wins. What the hell was 40 wins going to give us anyways? A nice round number? A moral victory in a STILL losing season? Joerger was gone whether or not we won that game. It probably was a big FU to the FO, but you can't say they didn't deserve it. Vlade didn't do nearly enough to manage the relationships and situation behind the scene, and that's on him.

Joerger was dealt with an impossible situation here and almost turned the ship around. He's a good coach. A bad coach is Luke Walton. He had Joerger's same exact roster and provided worse results.

If you disagree with your boss, you don't start leaking to the media about what an idiot your boss is. Doesn't matter if the boss is an idiot. You handle your business like a professional. Joerger also burned bridges down in Memphis which is why this "good" coach hasn't had another shot in the 4 years since he's been out of Sac.

I will fully concede that the two morons Vivek brought in to manage the FO when he bought the team are so bad I don't dignify their names. And Vlade was a massive overcorrect to attempt to win the fans back. Unfortunately his inexperience sunk the team at a make or break moment, and he proved to be a horrific talent evaluator come draft time.

That destroyed the team yes. Not solely a coach problem.

But Joerger doesn't have the interpersonal skills to manage a team. The Xs and Os are sound, but he constantly butted head with players. I've heard some argue the team quit on him before he quit on them. He insisted on playing 3 guards and the Buddy/Bogi lineup that never panned out, even after the team got him another front court player.

Notice the team also realized that Brandon Williams was a hack and a problem and ditched both. It was actually the first smart thing the Vivek organization did.

 

[Singhisking]

Joerger was not.

Better than what we had before and after him. But yes, not Adleman and Brown league.

 

[206Fan]

If you disagree with your boss, you don't start leaking to the media about what an idiot your boss is. Doesn't matter if the boss is an idiot. You handle your business like a professional. Joerger also burned bridges down in Memphis which is why this "good" coach hasn't had another shot in the 4 years since he's been out of Sac.

I will fully concede that the two morons Vivek brought in to manage the FO when he bought the team are so bad I don't dignify their names. And Vlade was a massive overcorrect to attempt to win the fans back. Unfortunately his inexperience sunk the team at a make or break moment, and he proved to be a horrific talent evaluator come draft time.

That destroyed the team yes. Not solely a coach problem.

But Joerger doesn't have the interpersonal skills to manage a team. The Xs and Os are sound, but he constantly butted head with players. I've heard some argue the team quit on him before he quit on them. He insisted on playing 3 guards and the Buddy/Bogi lineup that never panned out, even after the team got him another front court player.

Notice the team also realized that Brandon Williams was a hack and a problem and ditched both. It was actually the first smart thing the Vivek organization did.

You make some really good points, but I think at the end of the day, he was still a good coach who was put in a bad position by FO. He's not a typical players' coach like Mike Brown and maybe that can rub players the wrong way (tbf the only king who complained about him was Buddy). Joerger is one of those old school coaches where nobody complains about how he runs his ship as long as the team wins. Unfortunately, for as good of a coach I'm claiming him to be, we still didn't do enough of the winning.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Better than what we had before and after him. But yes, not Adleman and Brown league.

That is unfortunately a very low bar to clear in this town.
Right now we've had three coaches get us to the playoffs,
Rick Adelman, Gary St. Jean, and Phil "Johnson not Jackson".

 

[Tetsujin]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1634356764048244736

 

[pdxKingsFan]

One of the things that sold me on the hire before it happened was both James and Kobe reconciled that their time with Mike was good for them. Seemed to be a case of a coach who had gained the respect of the players while losing it amongst the fans.

What I couldn't see coming was the cultural shift. Adelman also brought a cultural shift. And I don't think we've had something like that since. Not Joerger and I don't think with Malone either. I think Malone and Boogie had something that no other coach did but not sure it went much beyond that. The whole team seems to love playing for Mike. Maybe there's some guys like Richaun that are feeling frozen out but they aren't about to ruin it for their teammates, and again that's something Mike has created.

 

[SLAB]

I don't see how we can give our FO the benefit of the doubt over Dave Joerger. Joerger had the Kings playing competent basketball again.. the best in a decade. Our FO was horrific with Brandon Williams having way too much sway, and Vlade being Vlade. Bagley was a terrible player and terrible #2 overall pick. It sounds like Brandon Williams was trying to force Joerger to play Bagley more... an assistant GM trying to tell a head coach how to do his job. How well would this go over for any other coach in the league? And it was reported that Brandon Williams was the one who started leaking things to the media.

It was a very toxic situation that started with our FO, not Joerger. We've blamed almost every single coach for being "toxic" Westphal, Karl, Joerger, and Walton. Reminds me of that saying, "if everyone around you is the butthead, then maybe you're the butthead."

I really don't care if the Joerger threw the last game to get 40 wins. What the hell was 40 wins going to give us anyways? A nice round number? A moral victory in a STILL losing season? Joerger was gone whether or not we won that game. It probably was a big FU to the FO, but you can't say they didn't deserve it. Vlade didn't do nearly enough to manage the relationships and situation behind the scene, and that's on him.

Joerger was dealt with an impossible situation here and almost turned the ship around. He's a good coach. A bad coach is Luke Walton. He had Joerger's same exact roster and provided worse results.

Joerger came in (for one of his three seasons!) with a philosophy, and it worked for awhile.

RUN PACE OUTSCORE FAST

Then the league countered. They countered hard. And the Kings struggled. Joerger didn’t do a damn thing to adjust. The Kings flopped and floundered around u til David went full scorched earth.

Let us not forget his godawful first couple of seasons either (again, not totally his fault because the team he inherited was trash) but I just can’t get into this “Joerger is good” train a lot of people ride because he coached half a season of good basketball.

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

I think even if Coach Brown won a championship this year, I wouldn't put him above Adelman.

On Joerger, he was brought in with the intention of developing a team that was rebuilding after liquidating the Kangz era roster. On his third year, Joerger was a lame duck coach. Dave probably thought that our GM was looking at sticking the necessary losses for rebuilding a team onto the old coach, while shopping around for a new coach to actually start competing. This seems like standard practice in the NBA, it's what happened to Malone, and Luke Walton (post-Vlade.)

Dave figures out he doesn't have anything to gain from tanking more losses, so he starts coaching the team to win. And he's pretty successful at that! Certainly more so than anyone expected. Kings played pretty well after the all-star break but had a set of close losses (lost to the Bucks in overtime by 1 point!). The team didn't truly fall apart until after they were pushed out of the playoffs.

Joerger deciding to coach to win instead of coaching to develop, sort of rules. Is it insubordination to not play along if your boss blames his problems on you? The NBA isn't the military

 

[reptilexcq2]

I think even if Coach Brown won a championship this year, I wouldn't put him above Adelman.

I would. It's an easy decision. Even if Kings make the NBA Finals and lost, I'll still put him above Adelman. Adelman is mostly about offense and the team does not play the kind of defense that Brown implemented which is switching and helping. This kind of defense will ALWAYS disrupt the flow and help you win games even if you didn't shoot well. The reason Kings are not consistent on team defense is because Brown does not have the players that he needed to play the kind of defense he want on this roster. There are only a couple guys that he can put in occasionally to disrupt the flow like Davion Mitchell, Barnes and now it looks like he found a gem in Kessler Edwards. There is a reason they're clutch in the 4th quarter defensively...it's because I believe the lineups on the 4th quarter are different, he's putting in guys that can play defense. The team can go far if they play defense but unfortunately, the very guys that you depend on offense don't necessarily play great D (such as Huerter and Murray).

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

Brown and it's not close. I'm sorry Rick - we love you.

But what I've seen from Brown - especially after reading the article on BR today - is that he's operating at a whole different level. This has Popovich vibes tbqhwy. We could be sitting on year 1 of a 15-20 year run. Not joking in the slightest.

 

[Spike]

Brown and it's not close. I'm sorry Rick - we love you.

But what I've seen from Brown - especially after reading the article on BR today - is that he's operating at a whole different level. This has Popovich vibes tbqhwy. We could be sitting on year 1 of a 15-20 year run. Not joking in the slightest.

I'm not ready to crown him yet, but I like what I see. Also, he's young enough for that 15 year run. I just hope that Vivek has patience to see it all the way through.

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

I'm not ready to crown him yet, but I like what I see. Also, he's young enough for that 15 year run. I just hope that Vivek has patience to see it all the way through.

Vivek failed fast but let's hope he succeeds slow.

 

[Rob-The-Great]

Stop this. He’s not passing Rick. I hope I’m wrong but all that teaching will get old after a few years. Good for a young team. Idk how good it will be for vets getting yelled at every game even after a win.

He will change the culture, he already has but unless we over achieve this year or next (we already have but I’m talking playoffs) then I feel like we will need a Kerr type coach to get us over the top

Rick was a players coach we should have won it all with him. We was robbed!

 

[Padrino]

Stop this. He’s not passing Rick. I hope I’m wrong but all that teaching will get old after a few years. Good for a young team. Idk how good it will be for vets getting yelled at every game even after a win.

He will change the culture, he already has but unless we over achieve this year or next (we already have but I’m talking playoffs) then I feel like we will need a Kerr type coach to get us over the top

Rick was a players coach we should have won it all with him. We was robbed!

Let me get this straight: You are asserting that Mike Brown, a man who has coached both Lebron James and Kobe Bryant, would not be able to adapt to coaching a more seasoned and veteran version of this particular Kings squad? That's a rather strange take, given that this team actually represents Brown's first real opportunity as a head coach to put his stamp on a team and wield authority and accountability in the locker room.

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

...vets getting yelled at every game even after a win

Rick was a players coach we should have won it all with him. We was robbed!

Purple: I support our Coach finding lessons in a win.

Italy: Fully agree!

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I would. It's an easy decision. Even if Kings make the NBA Finals and lost, I'll still put him above Adelman. Adelman is mostly about offense and the team does not play the kind of defense that Brown implemented which is switching and helping. This kind of defense will ALWAYS disrupt the flow and help you win games even if you didn't shoot well. The reason Kings are not consistent on team defense is because Brown does not have the players that he needed to play the kind of defense he want on this roster. There are only a couple guys that he can put in occasionally to disrupt the flow like Davion Mitchell, Barnes and now it looks like he found a gem in Kessler Edwards. There is a reason they're clutch in the 4th quarter defensively...it's because I believe the lineups on the 4th quarter are different, he's putting in guys that can play defense. The team can go far if they play defense but unfortunately, the very guys that you depend on offense don't necessarily play great D (such as Huerter and Murray).

Sorry. One season of a coach promoting active defense and making a good run, does not top 8 straight seasons of making the playoffs.

He's going to have to put together multiple 50+ win seasons and playoff series wins

 

[Rob-The-Great]

I don't see how we can give our FO the benefit of the doubt over Dave Joerger. Joerger had the Kings playing competent basketball again.. the best in a decade. Our FO was horrific with Brandon Williams having way too much sway, and Vlade being Vlade. Bagley was a terrible player and terrible #2 overall pick. It sounds like Brandon Williams was trying to force Joerger to play Bagley more... an assistant GM trying to tell a head coach how to do his job. How well would this go over for any other coach in the league? And it was reported that Brandon Williams was the one who started leaking things to the media.

It was a very toxic situation that started with our FO, not Joerger. We've blamed almost every single coach for being "toxic" Westphal, Karl, Joerger, and Walton. Reminds me of that saying, "if everyone around you is the butthead, then maybe you're the butthead."

I really don't care if the Joerger threw the last game to get 40 wins. What the hell was 40 wins going to give us anyways? A nice round number? A moral victory in a STILL losing season? Joerger was gone whether or not we won that game. It probably was a big FU to the FO, but you can't say they didn't deserve it. Vlade didn't do nearly enough to manage the relationships and situation behind the scene, and that's on him.

Joerger was dealt with an impossible situation here and almost turned the ship around. He's a good coach. A bad coach is Luke Walton. He had Joerger's same exact roster and provided worse results.

All those coaches you mentioned were trash doo doo and none have a job now. They shouldn’t have been hired. Malone should have stayed

 

[Rob-The-Great]

Let me get this straight: You are asserting that Mike Brown, a man who has coached both Lebron James and Kobe Bryant, would not be able to adapt to coaching a more seasoned and veteran version of this particular Kings squad? That's a rather strange take, given that this team actually represents Brown's first real opportunity as a head coach to put his stamp on a team and wield authority and accountability in the locker room.

Thank you sir. I’m staying we don’t have Kobe or Lebron. I’m sure you could have coached prime lebron to a championship.

I admire his accountability and teaching techniques. I just don’t see that working 4 years down the line. Has it previously or something for him? Js