Memphis/Sacramento Trade Rumor(Draft Express)

[Bricklayer]

are you crazy? It shouldn't take even close to that to move up.

I say no JT, no Spence, no Donte in any attempt to move up 2 spots. All it should really take is one of the later picks or an expiring and THAT IS IT. It's 2 fricken spots, not like were moving up from 15 to 2.

He wasn't suggesting moving up, he was suggesting trying to outright trade for the #2. Which I'd love to do (hello Rubio/Thabeet fantasy). But which I do not see Memphis doing minus a major player or other high pick.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

greene, 23rd,31st KT for number 2...

Um...no way in hell Memphis does this, or anyone else or that matter. Bottom line, we'll have to include the #4 pick in any trade to move up any. I could see the #4, #23 and Donte for the #2. That's more believable than any salary dump+Donte for the #2. No way in hell we'd end up with both #2 and #4 that didn't involve giving up Martin in return.

 

[Aenadin]

yeah with out giving up martin in return... which leads us to the next question....

dare i ask it?.... ok here goes...

seriously if his trading ends up with us getting the 2nd while retaining the 4th and we some how take the 5th too (by some geoff petrie magic juju).. would you do it?

its impossible i know but if it WAS possible would you consider it?

 

[Aenadin]

Um...no way in hell Memphis does this, or anyone else or that matter. Bottom line, we'll have to include the #4 pick in any trade to move up any. I could see the #4, #23 and Donte for the #2. That's more believable than any salary dump+Donte for the #2. No way in hell we'd end up with both #2 and #4 that didn't involve giving up Martin in return.

well they were duped with the gasol kwame trade....

 

[Kingster]

It's amazing to me that people are throwing around Greene's name as trade bait. I guess familiarity breeds contempt, even after just one year. If they did that deal and we got Rubio, would you throw his name around as trade bait next year if he has a year similar to Greene's? Rubio is not a sure thing. I wouldn't be giving up on athletic 6'10" small forward for an unknown. If you want to give up on somebody, look to the oldsters, and then get back another young talent in addition to Rubio.

 

[fnordius]

I think if it were KT it's assumed you take back Jaric.

While I appreciate the sentiment that anyone stupid enough to cheat on Adriana Lima deserves to be traded away, that only saves them from one year of him... and the timing's totally wrong for us if we're trying to make waves in the 2010 FA market (not that I have much faith in that).

But, eh, maybe. I'd consider taking on that liability if somehow we could end up with both Rubio and Thabeet. I'm not sure that it'd be worth the difference between Rubio and Flynn, though. Tough call.

 

[Aenadin]

It's amazing to me that people are throwing around Greene's name as trade bait. I guess familiarity breeds contempt, even after just one year. If they did that deal and we got Rubio, would you throw his name around as trade bait next year if he has a year similar to Greene's? Rubio is not a sure thing. I wouldn't be giving up on athletic 6'10" small forward for an unknown. If you want to give up on somebody, look to the oldsters, and then get back another young talent in addition to Rubio.

an unknown for an unknown i guess... but in this case we are getting an unknown need.. a pointguard

 

[Vlade4GM]

While I appreciate the sentiment that anyone stupid enough to cheat on Adriana Lima deserves to be traded away, that only saves them from one year of him... and the timing's totally wrong for us if we're trying to make waves in the 2010 FA market (not that I have much faith in that).

But, eh, maybe. I'd consider taking on that liability if somehow we could end up with both Rubio and Thabeet. I'm not sure that it'd be worth the difference between Rubio and Flynn, though. Tough call.

I'm not suggesting they would accept it, just saying that that would be the idea behind giving them KT.

 

[bajaden]

It certainly won't take JT or Hawes, and if you read the way that article wrote that, it was just sheer speculation. Actually, if you are Mmephis and the guy you want is going to be there at #4, there is actually a built in advantage to a straight swap -- you have to pay that #4 pick less thna you do if you took the same guy at #2. Now those things are never truly straight swaps, we might have to throw in a future pick, Donte or something. But in a draft with 20 PGs in it you aren't going to destroy your young frontcourt just to bounce two spots.

With possible movers in the top 3 and at #5 I am still trying to dream up a way to turn this into a Rubio AND Thabeet draft for us.

Keep working on it. I'll send some Red Bull your way..

 

[bajaden]

And this is exactly where I am coming from. This draft is really deep with PGs and while I would love Rubio on my team, I am not going to give up major assets to get him. If I can swap 4 and 23 or 31 or a future pick, I would do that. Pick 4 and Greene, I would do that too but if it involves trading away Hawes or Thompson or KT and taking on a bad contract that will have a negative impact on the 2010 FA plans, then I would rather stay at 4 and pick the next best PG or trade down and try to shed a bad contract in the process.

Its not worth trading the farm away for Rubio. He is good but he is no saviour and we can get a good PG with where we are currently place.

Also an interesting rumour I read somewhere (might have been draftexpress) about Detroit wanting to free up more cap space for this FA crop and would potentially deal Amir Johnson's expiring and pick 15 to get some $3.7 million extra in salary cap room. Now if I was Geoff I would call and try to get the trade going. We would be under the cap enough to take on Amir's contract and get the extra pick (or even swap 15 with 31). We get the extra player to fill up the roster. His contract doesn't affect the 2010 FA plan and you improve your draft spots in the process.

I read the same thing. I would do that trade. We pick up another young body and Detroit gets cap relief. There's no way I would give up either Thompson or Hawes just to move up two spots. Although Rubio is rated the best no miss point in the draft, that really doesn't make him a sure thing. He also comes with a lot of financial problems that are assumed to be solvable, but once again, not a sure thing.

I would hate to give up Thompson, leaving us with no PF, and find out we have to wait another year or perhaps two before Rubio's arrival. Or find out that he simply can't play defense very well at this level. Or find out that he's injury prone and ends up doing a Martin on us, playing 50 something games a year.

Now I'm usually an optimist. But I think its important to look at both the good and bad possiblilites before commiting to anything. My point being, that there is risk involved with Rubio. That doesn't mean I don't want him, but it does mean I'm not going to sell the farm to do it.

 

[bajaden]

If Memphis is anxious to move out of the two spot and trade down, the question is why? They must not want to draft Rubio, for whatever reason. Maybe they never wanted him in the first place. But why help them ease their pain by actually rewarding them for wanting to move.

Personally, I would just play a game of chicken with them. If they want out of that spot, let them call us and make a proposal. Otherwise, I'd tell them were just fine where we are. The truth is, there are teams futher down the list that would love to move up and probably would be willing to give up more than we would. So the last thing I would want to do is get into a bidding war with some other teams.

More than moving up, I would love to aquire another first round pick. Either number 5, or something in the mid first. If we end up picking at four and neither Rubio or Thabeet are there, then I would either trade down a few spots if possible for another first or a future pick next year, or I would pick Hill, and then pick the next best point with my next first, where ever that happens to be.

Hill has legitimate size and is an improving player. He would give us some insurance at the center/Powerforward position. I think he has the potential to become a decent shotblocker and good rebounder.

 

[Dreadnought]

There seems to be a huge split of opinion on these boards.

I am especially confused as to why trading KT would HURT us? When we trade away his contract for a draft pick, it works both ways. Memphis can get relief later and his contract just ends up leaving us this year as opposed to next. Unless someone really thought we could get something golden with KT's ender contract?

And to move up two spots, I feel like #4, #31, and Donte would be probably around what would be needed.

 

[SacKings7]

There seems to be a huge split of opinion on these boards.

I am especially confused as to why trading KT would HURT us? When we trade away his contract for a draft pick, it works both ways. Memphis can get relief later and his contract just ends up leaving us this year as opposed to next. Unless someone really thought we could get something golden with KT's ender contract?

And to move up two spots, I feel like #4, #31, and Donte would be probably around what would be needed.

I never read most of the posts in this thread, but anyway, if we trade KT straight up for a draft pick, then yes that in no way hurts us. But there's 0 reason for Memphis to do that because they'd only be adding salary for a year, so they'd throw in a bad contract and ask for a young player/pick in return, which DOES hurt us. We shouldn't be taking on bad contracts if it doesn't land us a star

 

[Larry89]

Would not trade JT or Hawes nonononono

 

[Bricklayer]

I never read most of the posts in this thread, but anyway, if we trade KT straight up for a draft pick, then yes that in no way hurts us. But there's 0 reason for Memphis to do that because they'd only be adding salary for a year, so they'd throw in a bad contract and ask for a young player/pick in return, which DOES hurt us. We shouldn't be taking on bad contracts if it doesn't land us a star

Actually burning KT just on this little errand would hurt -- that is a contract who might actually have real value the rest of the summer and midseason as a sweetner/matcher in trades. Having waited half a decade to finally see some value to KT, I'm a bit relutant to just throw him in there as a throwaway now.

And yes, if we swapped KT for Jaric that should help Memphis no matter how much cap room they have -- not only to be a huge free agent player wiht a young core already in place, but also jsut with their finances -- they are hemorraging money.

 

[kupman]

I would love to have Rubio on this team. However, I would not play a game of chicken with Memphis to get him either. If they call us with an offer we like, then fine; if not, that is fine too.

As much as I like the prospect that Rubio is, he is just an 18 year-old prospect. There are other PG prospects in this draft who may actually turn-out to be better NBA PGs. It is just too hard to know at this time and giving up assests to get Rubio is probably not in our best interests.

 

[Kings Faithful]

Screw that. I love what Rubio could bring to us... but in my mind the point of having him here is to make everyone else better. When we don't have any guys to make better because we traded them all then its just not worth. Not this year at least where quality big men are few and far between and both the draft and the free agency...

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

yeah with out giving up martin in return... which leads us to the next question....

dare i ask it?.... ok here goes...

seriously if his trading ends up with us getting the 2nd while retaining the 4th and we some how take the 5th too (by some geoff petrie magic juju).. would you do it?

its impossible i know but if it WAS possible would you consider it?

Um no, I mean we could talk hypotheticals until we're blue in the face. I hope Geoff knows that Martin has more value than just moving up in the draft. That said, I could see Geoff working out a deal to move up, if need be...but I doubt it VERY seriously that he would give up Martin, Hawes or Thompson at this point,

 

[DocHolliday]

If there is someone the Kings organization wanted that bad and thought it was worth it I would be ok with getting rid of Hawes...I don't think they would trade Thompson.

Hawes has a big warning sign hanging over him because of his knees. He could be limited by age 25. I think the guy could be a solid back up of the future, I don't feel he's a long term starter. Mainly because I don't see his knees holding up. Anyone knows that if you have knee problems at that young of an age you'l maintain for a while, but by your late twenties with not having the amount of stress put on them that the NBA demands you're going to have problems. So, just imagine the wear and tear from the NBA.

The guy has one more year left on his rookie contract if I'm correct and I think if you were to keep him he gets low dollars 3-5 million. Too much of a risk with his knees. I just don't think we have our center yet.

 

[DerekJ]

•Memphis Not a Lock to Take Thabeet?

http://www.draftexpress.com/blog/Jonathan-Givony/#Word-on-the-Street-June-2nd-3241

Most NBA teams we speak to these days are assuming that the Memphis Grizzlies have been decisively spooked by Ricky Rubio’s threats to pull a Fran Vasquez, and have instead zeroed in on Hasheem Thabeet as their likely selection with the #2 pick.

Memphis coach Lionel Hollins hasn’t necessarily given up on the idea of drafting a point guard, though, and he’s telling NBA-types that he may be interested in picking one with legit size that he can play alongside either Mike Conley or O.J. Mayo depending on the situation on the floor. Tyreke Evans is one that has come up—he comes with the added benefit of having played in Memphis, which might help the team somewhat in the ticket sales department. Jrue Holiday is another name that is beginning to get some mention here.

The assumption is that Memphis will trade down a few spots, possibly to 4th, where Sacramento can offer either Jason Thompson or Spencer Hawes as added compensation. That would surely please Rubio’s camp, as the difference between the 2nd and 4th picks is somewhere around four million dollars over the course of his rookie deal, which would make things infinitely easier as far as his buyout is concerned, and also satisfy his and his family’s initial expectations of being a top-3 pick.

There are some concerns that being selected fourth won’t cut it, and Rubio has already come out publicly in the Spanish media and stated that it’s not a foregone conclusion that he’ll be leaving Joventut this summer.

“There are possibilities of continuing in Joventut. It depends on what number I get picked and the final negotiations, but mainly the buyout clause that my agent is negotiating with the club.”

In the interview, Rubio insists that he will not leave Joventut unless a better future awaits him in the NBA. “If there is not a good project in the NBA then I will not go. If I go it is because there is a good future.”

Would Memphis qualify for that? The answer early on from Rubio’s perspective appears to be no.

That would be a complete steal..... for Memphis.

I'm not sure Rubio is worth either Hawes or Thompson, let alone either plus #4.
If Petrie does this, he should be fired immediately.

 

[Bricklayer]

If there is someone the Kings organization wanted that bad and thought it was worth it I would be ok with getting rid of Hawes...I don't think they would trade Thompson.

Hawes has a big warning sign hanging over him because of his knees. He could be limited by age 25. I think the guy could be a solid back up of the future, I don't feel he's a long term starter. Mainly because I don't see his knees holding up. Anyone knows that if you have knee problems at that young of an age you'l maintain for a while, but by your late twenties with not having the amount of stress put on them that the NBA demands you're going to have problems. So, just imagine the wear and tear from the NBA.

The guy has one more year left on his rookie contract if I'm correct and I think if you were to keep him he gets low dollars 3-5 million. Too much of a risk with his knees. I just don't think we have our center yet.

You do realize with the numbers he's begun to put up we'll be lucky to get him back at $8 mil right? Barring some tangible sign of problems or decline or a scary medical report, you don't turn your back on your homegrown talent over what ifs. Its no exaggeration at all to say that Spencer could end up as a Top 10 center within 2 or 3 years (or not -- up to him if he wants to continue being soft or not).

 

[Kingster]

an unknown for an unknown i guess... but in this case we are getting an unknown need.. a pointguard

It's an unknown for an unknown plus a #4. If you think we can get Rubio for Greene, then at least its in the ballpark.

 

[Kingster]

If Memphis is anxious to move out of the two spot and trade down, the question is why? They must not want to draft Rubio, for whatever reason. Maybe they never wanted him in the first place. But why help them ease their pain by actually rewarding them for wanting to move.

Personally, I would just play a game of chicken with them. If they want out of that spot, let them call us and make a proposal. Otherwise, I'd tell them were just fine where we are. The truth is, there are teams futher down the list that would love to move up and probably would be willing to give up more than we would. So the last thing I would want to do is get into a bidding war with some other teams.

More than moving up, I would love to aquire another first round pick. Either number 5, or something in the mid first. If we end up picking at four and neither Rubio or Thabeet are there, then I would either trade down a few spots if possible for another first or a future pick next year, or I would pick Hill, and then pick the next best point with my next first, where ever that happens to be.

Hill has legitimate size and is an improving player. He would give us some insurance at the center/Powerforward position. I think he has the potential to become a decent shotblocker and good rebounder.

If Petrie thinks Rubio is head and shoulders above the other point guards he would have to assess what other teams might give to get him. FWIW, I doubt Petrie picks a non-point guard with that #4. And based on his history, he probably will stand pat. And based on history again, somebody will trade up to get the Memphis pick and choose Rubio and there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth in Kings land - again, based on history.

 

[Bricklayer]

If Petrie thinks Rubio is head and shoulders above the other point guards he would have to assess what other teams might give to get him. FWIW, I doubt Petrie picks a non-point guard with that #4. And based on his history, he probably will stand pat. And based on history again, somebody will trade up to get the Memphis pick and choose Rubio and there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth in Kings land - again, based on history.

Yes, based on history that is all too likely a scenario. We sit on our asses while the league out maneuvers us.

 

[bajaden]

You do realize with the numbers he's begun to put up we'll be lucky to get him back at $8 mil right? Barring some tangible sign of problems or decline or a scary medical report, you don't turn your back on your homegrown talent over what ifs. Its no exaggeration at all to say that Spencer could end up as a Top 10 center within 2 or 3 years (or not -- up to him if he wants to continue being soft or not).

Considering that there aren't that many great centers in the league right now, and I consider Howard a PF who is playing out of position and doing a stellar job I might add, I would agree with you. Its not that big a reach to see Hawes as a top 10 center in a couple of years. And if so, his value at that time would be considerably higher than 3 or 4 mil a year.

Were in a rebuild. When you build something you start by putting blocks into place. If you continually keep going back and removing those blocks and replacing them with others you never get anything built. Its time to develop some stability. To create an idenity as a team. I'm all for aquiring anyone that can help the team, as long as it doesn't damage the core already in place.

We need to keep building and see what we end up with. Then if there's a part that needs fixing, you do it. Right now we do have some parts that need fixing. Point Guard and eventually SF. But you should try to fix them without creating another part that then needs fixing.

Now I will jump ship on my plan under the right circumstances. If the Heat are willing to trade me Wade for lets say, Hawes, Martin and our 4th pick in the draft, I'm all over it. Actually, if you really think about it, thats a pretty good deal for them. Hmmm.... I wonder if they would take KT instead of Hawes..Probably not!

 

[BMiller52]

We should just call their bluff. Either they take him or they don't and we get him.

 

[DoDiGaG0]

We should just call their bluff. Either they take him or they don't and we get him.

I don't think they'll pass on him because his trade value is much higher than anyone's below him.

 

[BMiller52]

Yes, based on history that is all too likely a scenario. We sit on our asses while the league out maneuvers us.

Yeah and you are honestly going to tell me Rubio is worth the 4th pick(Flynn or Evans probably) AND JT or Hawes? Sorry but we are getting ripped off in that deal, major.

 

[NME]

Trading one of our bigs straight up for an additional high pick if it allows us to grab Thabeet AND a PG is arguable. Burning one of them just to move two slots in this draft would be insane.

 

[Bricklayer]

Yeah and you are honestly going to tell me Rubio is worth the 4th pick(Flynn or Evans probably) AND JT or Hawes? Sorry but we are getting ripped off in that deal, major.

I said nothing of the sort, and if you had taken time to read the whole thread you would have found me explicitly poopoohing that idea from the very beginnign. In fact as I noted in my earlier apparently unread post that isn't even a legitimate rumor -- its pure speculation from the author who just mentioned it in offhand fashion. Those deals aren't happening. There is no point in even talking about them happening. They are non issues. But many other deals might, and could. But we haven't seen that sort of aggressiveness form our front office in all the long years of our interminable decline to league laughingstock. Geoff should get his one summer of unfettered control this summer, but if its the Geoff of the last half decade who shows up it won't matter -- that guy may not even be an average GM and has replaced being "cautious" with being too scared to make a move. Now if the Geoff of 1998 would kindly show back up, maybe we'd have a real shot at something here (although even that Geoff never had any stomach for maneuvering around the draft).