There's a reason why everybody is raving about this upcoming draft - talent there for teams to pick is that obvious.
Meet Derrick Williams
- Thread starter Bricklayer
- Start date
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
No its not that, we DID place the hopes of our franchise in getting a kid who was in high school a year before we drafted him. Big fella, might have noticed him out there. its a perfectly 100% reasonable strategy for a team that has nothing going for it. Its how OKC got Durant and Westbrook, how the Clips got Blake, the Blazers got Aldridge. And yes, how we got Cousins. It works.
BUT, the difference here is that we already DO have Cousins. That has been the difference all along with us. We already have a franchise guy. So somehow finding a way to have a franchise guy yet still lose enough games to get another franchise guy is extremely dubious. When the Spurs kicked off their 15 years of dominance it was through a "lucky" break of having their franchise guy get hurt, so they could go tank for another. But if Admiral never gets hurt, now ay they ever get Duncan. And ditto with us. If Cousins continues emerging as the most dominant big man in the game, trying to somehow find your way down to 20 wins or whatever it would take is nigh impossible. And with Cousins here its just not necessary like it would be if you didn't have him. Would be great to have 2 franchise guys. But we already have one, and you go add a borderline All Star talent like Gay, a couple of talented young pieces, and then if you can just go make one more trade for another talented piece (shotblocker would be nice, or PG) and you are there. Kings fans have gotten so used to being the league's shlubs they may have forgotten what its like to be there. But we could get ourselves in a position where we could realistically win on any given night, with a franchise centerpiece, all with sub-30 yr old players (and Landry). All without another soulsucking season.
ockingsfan
Starter
What happened to Derrick Williams at 6'9"? His Draftexpress measurement with shoes is 6'8.75" which usually means 6'9" in the NBA. I thought that during the draft he was listed at 6'9", did he shrink?
At 6'9", it would help with the stigma of an undersized power forward, if DWill is moved to power forward once Gay arrives.
At 6'9", it would help with the stigma of an undersized power forward, if DWill is moved to power forward once Gay arrives.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
No worries. We'll get a good player, since there's plenty to pick from
NBA player measurements get fudged either way for all sorts of reasons. Want to help the perception that you're a SF not a tweener? 6'8". Want to help the perception that you're a PF not a tweener? 6'10". Most of these guys are about the same height. Williams has a 9' standing reach and he can jump so he's not at a physical advantage most nights at PF. It's more of a match-up thing as to which position is best for him on any night. Some teams are going to pose a problem though. In general I tend to think you want a physical advantage at every position if possible and then you force the other team to play to your lineup. I don't think that happens with Williams/Gay playing together, but it's most likely a temporary situation anyway.
I think that height is important, but I think that skillset and demeanor are also important. I don't see any PF in Williams' game.
Entity
Hall of Famer
I don't see any in Gay's game either. I am hoping this isn't the plan. Not saying they will not see some time there.
Williams has probably had the best 6 game stretch of his NBA career since he got here. He shooting at an unsustainable 53% and has doubled his career steals average per game. The question is can he maintain this going forward? He is young enough that it is possible but it will be difficult coming off the bench. Gay is a border line all-star talent who absolutely will start and I think Williams will have to come off the bench. Unfortunately I don't think either has the skillset to really excel at PF night in and night out. Especially since we need our PF to take the harder defensive assignment out of the opponents PF and C to try and keep Cuz out of foul trouble. I think we will have to trade either Gay or Williams. And I bet Williams has more trade value than he did 6 games ago.
Like Kings picked Hawes over Noah or Thompson over Brook Lopez.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
You may be holding on to a past that is not all that important now. The ones making the decisions and paying the checks then, are long gone
Chubbs
Starter
It's amazing how many people think the past will be repeated despite entirely new management.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
I'm assuming the point was that the Kings will once again miss out on good players by being a little too good? Because anyone with a google machine or a good memory knows Noah was drafted one pick before Hawes, and Lopez was picked two picks before Thompson 
Now, if you want to make the Jimmer/Leonard argument, or Robinson/Drummond one, sure.
Now, if you want to make the Jimmer/Leonard argument, or Robinson/Drummond one, sure.
Uncia03
Starter
The biggest issue as I see it is what Arkitect indicates above. It's about the defense.
Sure you can run both Williams and Gay out there as your two forwards but the problem comes on the defensive end.
You have to make a choice either you:
1.) force Cousins to have to guard a harder player than he might have had to guard if JT was out there along-side him.
2.) have Cousins guard the 'eaiser' big (Jordan/Robin Lopez/KG) and put Williams in a defensive mismatch having to guard players with a lot of height/length on him.
If we had a typical PF with PF size/length/defense you'd see the following match-ups more times than not:
Clippers: Griffin guarded by PF, Jordan guarded by Cousins
Grizzlies: Randolph guarded by PF, Gasol guarded by Cousins
Trailblazers: Aldridge guarded by PF, Lopez guarded by Cousins
These are just a few examples of the choices that you'll have to make if you run both Gay and Williams at the two forward spots. I don't really want to see Cousins having to guard Griffin, Randolph, or Aldridge but if he doesn't that means that one of Williams/Gay will, which puts them at a severe disadvantage.
Playing JT in the starting line-up provides 3 advantages. First it allows us greater flexibility when it comes to defensive assignments, second it allows him to maximize his role as a defender/rebounder as he doesn't need a lot of shots to be effective, and third it puts a scorer back on the bench in Williams/Gay.
I have no idea how it will play out, but for these reasons I do think that continuing to start JT makes the most sense. As has been discussed quite a bit, JT is a great 3rd big, and I would love to play him that way, but we need to find a better starting PF to take his spot before he gets relegated to the bench.
It's an exciting thought to think of IT/Ben/Gay/Williams/Cousins in the starting line-up as that line-up has a ton of speed/quickness/athleticism at all 5 positions, but as exciting is it is, I'm not certain it's a long-term winning strategy especially against winning teams, and even more so against winning teams come play-off time.
Also, I should mention I don't necessarily agree with Arkitect's conclusion that we'll have to trade Williams if we don't start him, but I'd certainly like to continue to play Williams a lot of minutes and see if he continues to produce at a high level.
Chubbs
Starter
The point I think is that it's a lottery. Sometimes you lose big. Even with all these talents, someone will be darko. Or Trob, or jimmer.I'm assuming the point was that the Kings will once again miss out on good players by being a little too good? Because anyone with a google machine or a good memory knows Noah was drafted one pick before Hawes, and Lopez was picked two picks before Thompson
Now, if you want to make the Jimmer/Leonard argument, or Robinson/Drummond one, sure.
But yes, reality is that we MIGHT play ourselves out of a good player and pick. The upside, that would mean we are a better team. And good with young guys, not old vets just scrapping by in mediocrity (a good chunk of those got expatriated to Canada). In other words, a decent record that is trending up, not treading water.
Uncia03
Starter
I'm assuming the point was that the Kings will once again miss out on good players by being a little too good? Because anyone with a google machine or a good memory knows Noah was drafted one pick before Hawes, and Lopez was picked two picks before Thompson
Now, if you want to make the Jimmer/Leonard argument, or Robinson/Drummond one, sure.
Yeah, both those drafts were really disappointing. It was known that Petrie really wanted Noah and lost out a spot before, and as Lopez fell in the draft I was hoping that he'd fall all the way, but I don't know if he'd have taken Lopez since we had Hawes on the roster.
You could argue that if we had Noah on the roster that maybe we would have passed on Cousins, just like the Nets did since they had Lopez and thought Cousins wouldn't compliment him. Also, Noah was sort of seen as a head-case in his early years, so Petrie might have passed on Cousins even though he was the obvious talent, just to avoid having two duplicating bigs and two head-cases. If he wanted a big he might have gone with Monroe instead.
Anyway, it's all speculation, but I'm very happy that we have Cousins, so I'm not going to be too upset regarding big men that we didn't draft, as changes to that might have impacted our willingness to draft Cousins.
Noah went one pick before the Kings.
And personally I'd be frustrated if the Kings play well enough this year to be caught in the no man's land of just missing the playoffs.
This year's draft is potentially huge and rife with talent and adding a second star & wingman to Cousins creates a real possibility of this team doing big things going forward. Rudy Gay isn't that guy. At his best (which he hasn't been for two seasons) he's a smooth, complimentary wing who shoots a bit much & gets paid WAY too much but scores and is good in the clutch. But he's not a star. And it's too late in his career to hope he morphs into one in Sacramento.
Moreover, Gay, Thornton, Williams & Outlaw all have contracts that end next year. That's $37.6 million coming off the books. My guess is that if Thompson really is traded it will be for a guy whose deal ends then too, as it seems to be the strategy to have caproom next offseason. That would bring the total up to $44 million cut from the payroll. Even with Cousins extension, a top draft pick and allowing for Isiah Thomas to be resigned to a reasonable deal we'd be looking at around $25-$30 million in caproom.
With Big Cuz starting to enter his prime, McLemore hopefully rounding into a solid SG, Thomas showing he's an ideal sixth man, Landry hopefully also adding bench scoring and ideally a promising rookie finishing his first season the Kings would start to look like a great destination for a free agent that can envision big things happening in Sacramento, especially now that shovels are in the ground on a new arena. Adding one major free agent (ala the Warriors with Iguodala this last offseason) and some complimentary pieces would set the Kings up as playoff contenders instead of retreads.
I'll take one more rough season of losses for that future rather than the one where the Kings make just enough moves to be mediocre for the next 5 years.
Hallama
Starter
Hi funky - everything you wrote makes perfect sense. However, I'm not too keen on the cap space route for small market teams like the Kings any longer though. Just never seems to work out. And I've advocated for it before.
Now, I like what Pete'D is doing with the trade for Gay. Malone has him for the majority of the season to see how he fits. If he doesn't opt out, then the Kings have a very useful player and $19 million expiring contract that another team might be interested in shedding a (most likely) disgruntled star player. So having this contract and player is almost like having $19 million in cap to work with next season. Probably better odds to land a player than in the open FA market.
Definitely not the year to play yourself out of the top 5 in the draft, but it seems the Kings may end up closer to 10 than 3 at this point.
Now, I like what Pete'D is doing with the trade for Gay. Malone has him for the majority of the season to see how he fits. If he doesn't opt out, then the Kings have a very useful player and $19 million expiring contract that another team might be interested in shedding a (most likely) disgruntled star player. So having this contract and player is almost like having $19 million in cap to work with next season. Probably better odds to land a player than in the open FA market.
Definitely not the year to play yourself out of the top 5 in the draft, but it seems the Kings may end up closer to 10 than 3 at this point.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
My guess is that with a fairly depleted bench, a team that is probably going to take weaks to congeal, that isn't perfectly complementary, and a schedule that is going to have a ton of road games, is going to allow the Kings to be in the top 10 of ping pong balls.
Padrino
All-Star
this.
As a "get your centerpiece" tactic I completely agree. Outside of LeBron & Bosh taking their talents to South Beach I don't think that strategy works for big market teams either. Orlando nearly landed TMac & Duncan but instead got McGrady and the medical nightmare that was the middle of Grant Hill's career. Jury is out on Houston and Dwight Howard, but then again Houston winning a battle in free agency over the Lakers is a testament to how much having a winning situation can improve your odds of landing a guy in the offseason even as a small market team. But I digress.
I think the Kings can do well with free agency money IF they are looking for complimentary pieces and especially if they have the means and will to overpay slightly. Not swinging for the fences with a "star" but looking for solid doubles in very good role players.
Good point. I guess we'll see.
Hold up, flag on the play. Small market team? Let's not pretend that Houston isn't the fourth-biggest city in the United States.
Sac.Kings
All-Star
I think it's hilarious
steelevt
All-Star
i see d-will frequents StR
Yes, like 28 years temporary.
King Baller
All-Star
Brook was picked 10th and JT 12th. Noah picked 9th and Hawes 10th. But you knew that, right?
Well, seeing as how he'd already been corrected twice before you decided to say something, I'd sure like to think so.
Umm, what? I was saying I don't think Williams and Gay will both be on the team in a year and a half so this weird 2 SF lineup isn't the future of the team, just a way for us to up our talent level while we look for more deals. What are you referring to?
I thought everybody knew how Petrie really wanted Noah, but had to settle for Hawes because Kings were...too good. Nor sure if he would pick Lopez, had he been available, but he was skilled and could shoot, so looked a natural Petrie pick. It was a comment about "whatever, we'll still get somebody from this draft" post made by ShastaKingsFan, I think. You don't try to win enough games to get coveted #10-14 pick(and #13 or 14 would go to Cavs this year). So with this trade they either believe:
a) they can still make PO, but that would mean going 39-24 (with 27-36 home-away games) the rest of the way, given last year's threshold that might very well not be enough with even stronger West,
b) the trade was available here and now, Masai would've found another taker and Pete decided it was too much of a talent upgrade to pass up.
Kings already have Cousins as #1 option, so diving for top-5 pick is really not desirable to keep big fella happy, but they got themselves a free pass for one more season, so why not try one last time considering that draft is the best bet to acquire impact defensive big.
In short this would be a no-brainer at the deadline, when being 16-37 doesn't allow you to dig yourself out of the hole (and high pick).
a) they can still make PO, but that would mean going 39-24 (with 27-36 home-away games) the rest of the way, given last year's threshold that might very well not be enough with even stronger West,
b) the trade was available here and now, Masai would've found another taker and Pete decided it was too much of a talent upgrade to pass up.
Kings already have Cousins as #1 option, so diving for top-5 pick is really not desirable to keep big fella happy, but they got themselves a free pass for one more season, so why not try one last time considering that draft is the best bet to acquire impact defensive big.
In short this would be a no-brainer at the deadline, when being 16-37 doesn't allow you to dig yourself out of the hole (and high pick).
I should've been more clear and not conflated two separate lines of thought. My only point with Houston was that they beat out the hallowed Lakers (and the appeal of the L.A. market/lifestyle/opportunities) for a marquee free agent largely based on having a brighter future.
That bodes well even for smaller market teams like the Kings if they can get their act together and show real promise to free agents.
