Meanwhile Justin Williams is........

[SacTownKid]

Interesting that people still bag on KT, yet he was the starting PF during our best basketball of the year along with SAR at C.

I know everyone at the time said that it was the teams we were playing and had every excuse in the world as to why SAR/KT wasn't one of the reasons we were doing well ... but the simple fact is, we can't beat those teams now. In fact, those same teams are killing us.

Brad Miller *IS* one of our biggest problems. Not KT.
KT tries on defense. Miller does not.
KT tries to rebound. Miller does not.

We wouldn't be world beaters with KT out there, but this constant scapegoating is just silly.

As for Williams, the guy hasn't really showed me much other than that he can leap really quick. He looks confused on defense and worse on offense (granted, we've got Beavis at coach) ... I think he's got more of a chance of being Stromile Swift than he does of being half of Ben Wallace.

Well unless the rebounding #'s are a fluke I'd say he has the potential to do more than a Stromile Swift can. Justin is a prolific rebounder and shotblocker. I think when you can find both of those in one player that is the building blocks to something special.

 

[Roman]

So KT is great because "he hustles and rebounds" but Justin Williams is bad because "all he can do is jump really well".

Did I type that? I don't recall typing that. I don't recall typing anything of the sort. In fact, I don't even think I compared the two at any point.

I never said KT was "great" or even insinuated it nor did I say Williams is "bad".

All I said is that people use KT as the doormat and he's not been that awful in comparison to the rest of the team. He's not the solution. Far from it. But to constantly bomb on the guy is just silly.

Williams has done nothing to make me get crazy about. He might turn out to be quite the little player. But, the hoopla about him I don't get. He's an athletic kid with no clue about the game. Reminds me exactly of Stromile Swift. Truth be told ... if he becomes Swift ... that's pretty good for us for where we got him.

Um yeah, Justin actually rebounds better than KT.

Does he now?

Not really arguing the point ... but I don't see why you're making a comparison as if it is going to disprove (or prove) something to me. I never compared the two.

Justin blocks shots better than KT.

Okay. Read above.

You're here defending Kenny freaking Thomas. The same KT who pouts when he doesn't start, the same KT who glares at the coach when he's taken out of the game.

Didn't say I liked his attitude. I just said I don't think his play has been our downfall.

He's a bit player on a bad team. Our problem is that our "declared" superstars and leaders are the antithesis of what superstars and leaders are.

Yet you're saying how Justin isn't that great but he blocks, rebounds, and hustles more than Kenny.

Again, I never said he isn't that great or that he stinks or that he's god or that he's lucifer incarnate. That's you who is making the claims for me.

All I said is that at this point it is too early to make any real claims about him. He's playing limited minutes and giving it his all in these limited minutes. His stats might now be indicative of what he'd bring us in a regular rotation. That's about all I said.

He's only a rookie but if you didn't pay attention to free throw shooting you'd easily be able to say that when he's seen the court he's been our best front court player out there(recently).

Lord almighty. Yes, when he plays his 2 minutes he's absolutely amazing.

I sometimes catch myself thinking ... is he the next Wilt or the next Deke? It's hard to tell because he's so absolutely amazing out there. Sometimes I have to just avert my eyes because it's so amazing.

He could be a good player, but getting all wet over him now is a little premature is what I'm trying to get across.

That's why people are excited about him.

I was excited to see a LSU kid come out of college. He could block shots and rebound. He was just an athletic monster. His name is Stromile Swift.

Athletic skills and pogo-sticking doesn't make you a good basketball player. Darius Miles, Stromile Swift, Travis Outlaw are 3 names that come to mind of players with athletic skill but no ability to play basketball because they don't have the mind.

 

[Roman]

Well unless the rebounding #'s are a fluke I'd say he has the potential to do more than a Stromile Swift can.

You just mentioned he's playing limited minutes. Then you come here and basically insinuate that his rebounding numbers aren't a fluke.

Come on, do you really think he's a 23Reb/48min guy?

 

[BMiller52]

Justin does rebound better than Kenny/Stro Swift. Justin comes in for 8 minutes and grabs like 5 boards. He was a great rebounder in college, same in the NBDL. Don't you see a pattern there? Stro Swift never rebounded well in college or the NBA. Justin also blocked more shots than Stro Swift. Justin also has shown some defensive prowess, Eddy Curry destroyed our front line but when Justin was in the game he didn't score at all. Same with Al Jefferson(I think).

In 1 of your earlier posts you said that it's good to have a player like Kenny in the game because he doesn't need the ball. But neither does Justin and he rebounds/blocks better. I'd rather see Justin get PT than see Reef get packed 1 million times by Boston's front line or see KT ask for the ball and then turn it over 22% of the time.

 

[nbrans]

Justin does rebound better than Kenny/Stro Swift. Justin comes in for 8 minutes and grabs like 5 boards. He was a great rebounder in college, same in the NBDL. Don't you see a pattern there? Stro Swift never rebounded well in college or the NBA. Justin also blocked more shots than Stro Swift. Justin also has shown some defensive prowess, Eddy Curry destroyed our front line but when Justin was in the game he didn't score at all. Same with Al Jefferson(I think).

In 1 of your earlier posts you said that it's good to have a player like Kenny in the game because he doesn't need the ball. But neither does Justin and he rebounds/blocks better. I'd rather see Justin get PT than see Reef get packed 1 million times by Boston's front line or see KT ask for the ball and then turn it over 22% of the time.

See, this is kind of what I'm talking about. People are WAY too high on Justin Williams. Jefferson did score on him (he got a needless "and one" on him, if I'm not mistaken). He's blocked all of one shot.

Look, down the line he may be a good roleplayer, but after 20 minutes of play you're going to say that he's better than Kenny Thomas, who has actually proven himself as a rebounder and a double-double threat over the course of his career ? That's just putting the cart about a mile in front of the horse.

Sure, in the last game, Justin Williams > Kenny Thomas. I'd love to see the kid get more time. But he's proved nothing yet, and the relentless hyping of him on this board is extreme.

 

[VF21]

See, this is kind of what I'm talking about. People are WAY too high on Justin Williams. Jefferson did score on him (he got a needless "and one" on him, if I'm not mistaken). He's blocked all of one shot.

Look, down the line he may be a good roleplayer, but after 20 minutes of play you're going to say that he's better than Kenny Thomas, who has actually proven himself as a rebounder and a double-double threat over the course of his career That's just putting the cart about a mile in front of the horse.

Sure, in the last game, Justin Williams > Kenny Thomas. I'd love to see the kid get more time. But he's proved nothing yet, and the relentless hyping of him on this board is extreme.

What difference does it make if some fans are more exuberant about Williams than perhaps he deserves? So they want something to be excited about... hey, more power to them. It's not like we have a whole lot of "happy, happy, joy, joy" stuff going on right now.

Williams is a little bright light in a pretty dark dank cellar. Let it shine...

 

[Roman]

In 1 of your earlier posts you said that it's good to have a player like Kenny in the game because he doesn't need the ball. But neither does Justin and he rebounds/blocks better.

Agreed. But he doesn't play basketball better.

I'd rather see Justin get PT than see Reef get packed 1 million times by Boston's front line or see KT ask for the ball and then turn it over 22% of the time.

KT rarely asks for the ball. (although he has been a TO machine)

SAR got packed, yes, but he's also not getting it in position nor is anyone immune to having bad nights or tough matchups.

I would rather watch SAR try to get a five foot hook shot than watch Bib-test dribble around and launch an ill-advised 20 footer or flop around trying to get bogus calls.

 

[nbrans]

What difference does it make if some fans are more exuberant about Williams than perhaps he deserves? So they want something to be excited about... hey, more power to them. It's not like we have a whole lot of "happy, happy, joy, joy" stuff going on right now.

Williams is a little bright light in a pretty dark dank cellar. Let it shine...

That's a very good point -- I'll try not to be a downer. The better he gets the better it is in the long run, it's cool to have another player to be excited about.

 

[BigSong]

You just mentioned he's playing limited minutes. Then you come here and basically insinuate that his rebounding numbers aren't a fluke.

Come on, do you really think he's a 23Reb/48min guy?

some guys just know how to get the ball, its not a fluke.

 

[Roman]

That's a very good point -- I'll try not to be a downer. The better he gets the better it is in the long run, it's cool to have another player to be excited about.

Consider me a realist then. I'll quit commenting on the guy ... and I do hope he proves his worth to the organization.

Like I said - even if he maxes out as a Stromile Swift ... it's one hell of a fine bargain!

 

[VF21]

nbrans and Roman - Thank you.

 

[SacTownKid]

You just mentioned he's playing limited minutes. Then you come here and basically insinuate that his rebounding numbers aren't a fluke.

Come on, do you really think he's a 23Reb/48min guy?

The reasoning behind me assuming that it isn't a fluke is based on the numbers he's put up in college, the NBDL, and with the Kings thusfar.

Do I think he's a 23 rebound a game player? Probably not. I think he could be a legit 12 rebound a game in 30-35 minutes if his previous numbers translate to the NBA. Those numbers are something to get excited about if you are a Kings fan considering the frontcourt we have now and where their strengths and weaknesses lie. Justin improves upon deficiencies that Kings fans like myself have been waiting to see improved for YEARS!

 

[Bricklayer]

12rebs a game in the NBDL or smaller college is not really a cleanly transferable stat.

I like the kid for his hustle if nothing else, but he's undersized and his game is pretty crude. Thsi is one of thiose best in small doses as an energizer type deals. If he ever gets to the point wherre he can be a 20mpg regular rotation reserve there would be reason to go woohoo, we got a freebie.

 

[BMiller52]

12rebs a game in the NBDL or smaller college is not really a cleanly transferable stat.

I like the kid for his hustle if nothing else, but he's undersized and his game is pretty crude. Thsi is one of thiose best in small doses as an energizer type deals. If he ever gets to the point wherre he can be a 20mpg regular rotation reserve there would be reason to go woohoo, we got a freebie.

If we re-sign him to a contract for the rest of the year than you can quote me on this-he'll be a rotation player before the season is over.

 

[SacTownKid]

12rebs a game in the NBDL or smaller college is not really a cleanly transferable stat.

I like the kid for his hustle if nothing else, but he's undersized and his game is pretty crude. Thsi is one of thiose best in small doses as an energizer type deals. If he ever gets to the point wherre he can be a 20mpg regular rotation reserve there would be reason to go woohoo, we got a freebie.

Yet he doesn't look underpowered very often. And you are talking about a guy with a 9'1" standing reach! He'll get bigger and stronger. One of the main reasons I can get excited is because of the progress he's made in just a few short months. No doubt Justin has a long way to go but so far he's shown he's up to the task. He came into camp at 208 lbs! He now weighs at around 220-225. That shows me he is willing to work hard and do the things he needs to in order to make it at this level.

There will be ups and downs with this kid but it looks like he can be an important part moving forward if the Kings are smart enough to make sure he gets a longer term deal.

 

[fnordius]

And, let's face it, VF21 made the point about this thread that most needed to be made: right now our best hope for this season is that we'll lose another 40 games, getting a new coach and a top-3 draft pick. The odds of either seem small, the odds of both are pretty remote. And yet that's all we've got to look forward to. We will drop into 14th place in the west this week, 6th worst in the NBA. We're closing in. Hooray.

He also fills the biggest gap this team has, other than leadership. How well he will do it remains to be seen, but that he does it at all matters quite a lot to many of us. It's management finally getting a piece that we have badly needed for a long time, rather than a flexible and redundant one.

I'd be very excited about someone in the Yogi Stewart-Maceo Baston-Keon Clark range right now, so I can't help but like Justin.

 

[vfettke]

imagine a starting lineup like this:

PG - Price
SG - Martin
SF - Salmons or Garcia
PF - Corliss
C - Williams

you got a bunch of young guys who are eager and excited to play. there will be mistakes a plenty, but it'll be fun to watch because most of the guys will be grateful to be given some decent playing time. they'd work their butts off and would probably lose, but would be happy doing it

that's what williams brings. he's got potential enough to rebound and block shots like crazy. but right now everyone likes him because he actually looks like he wants to be on the floor. he may only play 8 minutes a game at the most, but he's more appreciative of those 8 than some of our vets are of their 30+

 

[Jerryaki]

And, let's face it, VF21 made the point about this thread that most needed to be made: right now our best hope for this season is that we'll lose another 40 games, getting a new coach and a top-3 draft pick. The odds of either seem small, the odds of both are pretty remote. And yet that's all we've got to look forward to. We will drop into 14th place in the west this week, 6th worst in the NBA. We're closing in. Hooray.

not too up to date on my college hoops, so are there reasonably talented (potential stars) bigs in the 3-8 spots? you know, seeing as how hoping for a 1-3 spot may be too wishful thinking...

 

[bibbinator]

Our front court now contains 3 good reserves, SAR, Brad, and KT for certain matchups (since he's with us forever), and no real starters.

JW is a nice addition because we're so weak, but the Kings cannot afford to go another year without a quality big, he doesn't even have to be elite, just good enough to give us a respectable starting big.

If they can't get it in the draft they've got to go with a FA or trade.

 

[fnordius]

not too up to date on my college hoops, so are there reasonably talented (potential stars) bigs in the 3-8 spots? you know, seeing as how hoping for a 1-3 spot may be too wishful thinking...

I tend to neglect this subject until after the season's over, although I will probably start early this year. I don't know much so far, I'm sure that there are others who have looked at in more detail, but my impression so far is:
(1) Most of the top 15 picks will be bigs, and (2) This draft is one of the best, if not the best, since '96, not just in terms of top picks, but perhaps also in terms of depth.
(See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_NBA_Draft )

So I think that the top couple of picks are likely to completely transform the teams concerned. Several below that will be excellent, and we will have a shot at at least a couple of "franchise player" quality guys. (See '96 or '98 for examples.) Whether or not we will pick the best guy available is another matter entirely.

 

[Merdiesel]

Lets start him. I have a good feeling about this kid.

 

[CalBears1]

With the King's luck, they will succeed in having one of the 3 worst records in the NBA, only to be leapfrogged by another team in the Lottery.

 

[Bricklayer]

not too up to date on my college hoops, so are there reasonably talented (potential stars) bigs in the 3-8 spots? you know, seeing as how hoping for a 1-3 spot may be too wishful thinking...

Check personnel thread -- we have been discussing/watching a bunch of them. And oh yeah -- #1-#3 should be the goal of any losing team this year -- superstars lurk. But #4-#10 have a whole pile of other guys who look to be major bigs in the league over the next decade. Won't all pan out, but it wouldn't shock me at all if there were half a dozen All Stars at some points in there career out of the Top 10. You've got a long young guy at UNC that is kind of a cross between Bosh and Howard (Brandon Wright), a guy who's kind of a slightly smaller Tyson Chandler with some of Anderson Varajao's enthusiasm thrown in (Joakim Noah), his college teammate who is a brute with skills along the lines of a Carlos Boozer (Al Horford), the MVP of the Chinese leagues, who is 7'0" tall, runs like the wind, and loves to throw things down (Yi Jianlin), kind of reminds me of a Tom Chambers type maybe. You may have the next Deke in 7'3" 265lb Hasheem Thabeet out of UConn. Defensive boarding monster in the middle. And that's before we even start talking about Oden and Durant. I've been saying all year I would kill to trade any or all of our older vets to get a second good lottery pick in this draft. You could mix and match pick any two of the top bigs in this draft and maybe end up with your starting froncourt until the year 2020.

 

[Jerryaki]

thanks, fnordius and brick!