McNair gone

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
I agree with the idea of patience, but no you don't, you really don't. That's totally arbitrary. Success dictates path more often than not and sorry, Brown started to lose his locker room whether anyone likes it or not and his pressers started to get more and more pointed with very little directive towards solution. That might have been because there was no solution, especially on the defensive side of the ball but it just happens sometimes. Monte had 5 years, really 6 isn't the trick at all. The trick is to not sit in the middle unless you're doing it with a growing team full of growing players. The Kings sat right there for 16 years because they tried to cut corners and that goes back to before Vivek. And the average lifespan of any NBA head coach is around 3.7 years on a quick search with google AI. Is that a lie like every other google AI answer? Probably but it's got to be close to that, haha. Coaches that last almost always have one thing in common, THEY are usually the defacto GM. Mostly because they've earned it. It's a very short list with coaches like Don Nelson, Pat Riley, Pop, and a few more on it but they are so few and far between it's almost just wishing to end up with that.
I forgot to add this part and was going to edit it in but you probably won't see it if I do that so...

On the Mike Brown part of this, my opinion is that people need to learn the difference between process and results. No the defense Mike Brown had implemented was not one of the best in the league but it was still better than we've seen out of a Kings team in a very long time because there was enough continuity with him as Head Coach and the roster of players under him to earn player buy-in. We also never got to see him coach with a healthy Devin Carter -- one of our only plus perimeter defenders this season -- and he didn't have a legit backup C to sub in for Domas either.

Yes the buy-in was fraying as the losses mounted but a 5 or 6 game winning streak would have been enough to course correct and I felt all off-season that the roster wasn't finished to begin with so he was working with a flawed roster. I did want DeMar here but I was very clear about wanting DeMar plus a defensive big and the defensive big was the more important piece to get. I also fully expected DDR to move to the bench no later than next season. I strongly suspect Mike Brown agreed with both points but Monte wasn't able to make any meaningful roster moves happen until the trade deadline and somebody in the organization apparently overruled Coach on the DeMar as sixth man idea.

With some roster tweaks that defensive scheme could have worked. The end of game yips could have been smoothed out with a different mix of players on the floor closing out games. Mike Brown being all passive aggressive in the press conferences in retrospect might have something to do with his authority as the head coach being undermined behind the scenes. There were solutions which didn't involve going nuclear and nuking the coach, GM, team chemistry, and eventually the fan support in the process. But I guess that's not how this organization rolls. They haven't earned the right to get the benefit of the doubt from me.
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
Mike Brown wasn't given a big raise to fall back in the standings, miss the playoffs, and get results 2-3 years from now.

There was debate on whether he should be given a raise or flat out fired after last year. Some of us thought both were extreme and he should play out this season then they can check the option. We look dumb partially because he played us and Vivek backed down and gave him what he wanted then he turned in the assignment and it was a D-.

This is a results league.
 
I think the perfect piece to Vivek is hiring a bunch of 27 year olds to play on your G League team so you can win the G League and “celebrate” a Championship. It wouldn’t surprise me if they hung a banner in the rafters.

Dude’s a clown who is always looking for a short cut to success but sadly they are also the only show in town.
 

Capt. Factorial

ceterum censeo delendum esse Argentum
Staff member
I think the perfect piece to Vivek is hiring a bunch of 27 year olds to play on your G League team so you can win the G League and “celebrate” a Championship. It wouldn’t surprise me if they hung a banner in the rafters.

Dude’s a clown who is always looking for a short cut to success but sadly they are also the only show in town.
As they say, "every silver lining has its cloud."
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
Mike Brown wasn't given a big raise to fall back in the standings, miss the playoffs, and get results 2-3 years from now.

There was debate on whether he should be given a raise or flat out fired after last year. Some of us thought both were extreme and he should play out this season then they can check the option. We look dumb partially because he played us and Vivek backed down and gave him what he wanted then he turned in the assignment and it was a D-.

This is a results league.
I know it's a results league and it's no coincidence that a lot of the league's teams make really dumb decisions a lot of the time. The only thing dumb about the Mike Brown situation was firing him mid-season after a 5 game losing streak when he's been only the second coach in 40 years to coach this team to a better than .500 record and only the second coach in 40 years to lead them to the playoffs.

We, as in this franchise, look dumb because Vivek's personnel decisions have about the same level of strategic thinking involved as a drunk man stumbling into a casino and pulling the handle on a slot machine over and over again. Sooner or later we're bound to get the right result if we keep mixing it up right? That's what results over process thinking gets you. Granted there's a lot more than just one drunk man in the casino. That doesn't make it any less dumb if you ask me.
 
I forgot to add this part and was going to edit it in but you probably won't see it if I do that so...

On the Mike Brown part of this, my opinion is that people need to learn the difference between process and results. No the defense Mike Brown had implemented was not one of the best in the league but it was still better than we've seen out of a Kings team in a very long time because there was enough continuity with him as Head Coach and the roster of players under him to earn player buy-in. We also never got to see him coach with a healthy Devin Carter -- one of our only plus perimeter defenders this season -- and he didn't have a legit backup C to sub in for Domas either.

Yes the buy-in was fraying as the losses mounted but a 5 or 6 game winning streak would have been enough to course correct and I felt all off-season that the roster wasn't finished to begin with so he was working with a flawed roster. I did want DeMar here but I was very clear about wanting DeMar plus a defensive big and the defensive big was the more important piece to get. I also fully expected DDR to move to the bench no later than next season. I strongly suspect Mike Brown agreed with both points but Monte wasn't able to make any meaningful roster moves happen until the trade deadline and somebody in the organization apparently overruled Coach on the DeMar as sixth man idea.

With some roster tweaks that defensive scheme could have worked. The end of game yips could have been smoothed out with a different mix of players on the floor closing out games. Mike Brown being all passive aggressive in the press conferences in retrospect might have something to do with his authority as the head coach being undermined behind the scenes. There were solutions which didn't involve going nuclear and nuking the coach, GM, team chemistry, and eventually the fan support in the process. But I guess that's not how this organization rolls. They haven't earned the right to get the benefit of the doubt from me.
I don't disagree. Definitely would have taken some major roster tweaks for sure though. Probably starting with Domas. When you factor in Browns own history (along with most coaches honestly) he has always hit snags a few years in. Cavs fans that gave us some clues hit the nail on the head in the end. Once those signs started to creep up (specifically on playing favs) you could kind of figure where it was going. Brown did a good job in his time, Brown is far from a terrible coach, but Brown is what Brown is. When the pressure mounts he does what he did and that's start getting prickly.
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
I liked Brown so I feel like in defending the firing I am coming off as a hater but I don't see anyway they turn it around. Fox was out the door either way. The wheels were off and we weren't making the playoffs with this roster. It just wasn't working. He rejected some of the moves Monte brought to the table and mis-played many of the guys we did bring in after the first Beam Team campaign.

Maybe we should have kept Brown, fired Monte, Fox would have still demanded a trade, we'd have finished well out of the playoffs, probably kept our pick and a new GM could have made the call. But where we are today feels inevitable and just a question of timing at this point.